A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!


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Post Post #1425 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:08 am

Post by Lyanna Stark »

In post 1423, Shadow1psc wrote:
In post 1421, kortul wrote:On a more serious note that means that i don't really believe your claim now. You posted something 2 hours later, which means that your claim post wasn't the last chance to post during the day


Seriously, you've been misrepping people all game. You either have very poor selective reading, or you're scummy scum mcscummerson. I like to start my first impressions of people as "they're probably not that dumb, they're probably scum", and work down. Ergo, if you're town, you need to read more thoroughly, or not join 28 player games.


Shadow, do you realize that he was referring to stefanb and not you?
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Post Post #1426 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:23 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Wait, StefanB soft-claimed Tyrion?

Unvote, Vote: StefanB


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Permanent V/LA.
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Post Post #1427 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:25 am

Post by DCLXVI »

unvote
vote:stefan
Sarcasm is
not
a scumtell.
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Post Post #1428 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:30 am

Post by Lyanna Stark »

I'm not seeing the evidence for him soft claiming Tyrion.

(I will admit to be amazingly retarded when it comes to finding breadcrumbs though.)
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Post Post #1429 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:43 am

Post by Eddard Stark »

House Knott is a mountain clan in the North. In Winterfell, the heads of the mountain clans are addressed by the title "lord" but their clan folk call them "The Knott".


Day 1, Votecount 51

Saporerint (3) - Shadow1psc, BBmolla, Albert B. Rampage
Feysal (1) - Starbuck
Shadow1psc (2) - Mockingjaye, bvoigt
bvoigt (10) - greenknight, SnowStorm, Pandora, Seraphim, Plessiezarus, MagnaofIllusion, Plums Yo Mamma, Dolorous Edd, Staeg, Shinori

StefanB (7) - Regfan, Tyene Sand, Saporerint, Lyanna Stark, kortul, Mastermind of Sin, DCLXVI
Plums Yo Mamma (2) Benmage, StefanB

Not Voting (3):
Jal, Feysal, Minimum

With 28 alive it takes 15 to lynch.

  • Deadline
    : 5th September at 11:59pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)
  • Countdown to deadline
    : (expired on 2012-09-05 18:59:59)
  • Starbuck is V/la




CHOOSE VALLEYS
Feysal (9) - Bvoigt, greenknight, Shinori, DCLXVI, Benmage, Albert B. Rampage, Saporerint, Mastermind of Sin, Jal
Minimum (2) - Mockingjaye, MagnaofIllusion
Starbuck (1) - Starbuck
greenknight (1) - Seraphim
DLCXVI (12) - Tyene Sand, Plessiezarus, Regfan, Pandora, Feysal, Lyanna Stark, Kortul, Plums Yo Mamma, Staeg, Dolorous Edd, SnowStorm, Shadow1psc

kortul (1) StefanB

Not Choosing (2):
Minimum, BBmolla

With 28 alive it takes 15 to 'Choose'. Once a choose has 15 votes it will be locked in but not end day.


Just over 24 hours until deadline.
War has arrived!

PM me for Dead QT access!
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Post Post #1430 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:47 am

Post by Jal »

@DCL:
Unfortunately, you're the Plain Jayne non-PR slot people were hoping for.

Give us reads that don't involve how others are distancing themselves from your wagon. Town or scum, it can be helpful down the road.

In post 1408, kortul wrote:@Jal - your words about compromises and lynches are true, and you even apply this to your CHOOSE vote. Why do you hesitate to apply this to your vote in the VOTE section for several days?


I haven't looked into everyone yet, whereas I have looked into DCL and Feysal.

Guys, there's no reason for Stefan to be apparently soft claiming a stupid Aegon aligned character from his 2nd post to use later to claim.

Stefan, please just be clear and straight forward.
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Post Post #1431 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:54 am

Post by Saporerint »

In post 1428, Lyanna Stark wrote:I'm not seeing the evidence for him soft claiming Tyrion.

(I will admit to be amazingly retarded when it comes to finding breadcrumbs though.)

I posted the crumbs directly. Tyrion is short (a dwarf). Cersei thinks Tyrion is fated to kill her or ruin her queenship or something (can't recall details).

Why Stefan has only soft-claiming his name like this, I don't know. I agree that he should be clear.
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Post Post #1432 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:01 pm

Post by Lyanna Stark »

In post 1431, Saporerint wrote:
In post 1428, Lyanna Stark wrote:I'm not seeing the evidence for him soft claiming Tyrion.

(I will admit to be amazingly retarded when it comes to finding breadcrumbs though.)

I posted the crumbs directly. Tyrion is short (a dwarf). Cersei thinks Tyrion is fated to kill her or ruin her queenship or something (can't recall details).

Why Stefan has only soft-claiming his name like this, I don't know. I agree that he should be clear.


I saw what you quoted. They just didn't seem like crumbs to me, but as I said I'm horrible at finding/deciphering crumbs.
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Post Post #1433 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:11 pm

Post by DCLXVI »

In post 1430, Jal wrote:@DCL: Unfortunately, you're the Plain Jayne non-PR slot people were hoping for.


But I also happen to be town, the goal of this game isn't to lynch all the vt's, its to lynch all the scum.
Sarcasm is
not
a scumtell.
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Post Post #1434 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:21 pm

Post by Minimum »

To be completely honest, I just want this on the record for postgame: if I (Mina, since this post is short enough to be ambiguous) was alone, my vote would definitely be on bvoigt right now. But I'll leave hydra dissonance out of the thread. Right now I feel that just about everyone else (well, possibly not Saporerint, since most of the towntells they've dropped don't count for much if this is multiball) who has had a major wagon on him/her today is town based on either claims or reactions.

I still think that Stefan's reaction to us felt townish (both the "then I'll just leave my vote on you if you won't explain" which Tyene found town before she voted him, and later his asking about our reaction to greenknight's announced vig target), and there was no need to start yet
another
flashwagon on him and force a claim just because Regfork said so...particularly since "wagons just about everyone indiscriminately" applies to half the people in this game, and the people wagoning him don't actually
suspect
Stefan. (And MoI, that post wasn't disgust, real or fake. It was frustration with myself--I had a hand in the DC/Shadow/greenknight wagons, after all.
This
is self-righteous disgust.)

MagnaofIllusion, link to the game where bvoigt has been a protown force? Do you know anything about his scum play?

In post 1426, Mastermind of Sin wrote:Wait, StefanB soft-claimed Tyrion?

Unvote, Vote: StefanB


Kill it with fire.

So are you voting Stefan because you think that Tyrion is Aegon-aligned...and decided to softclaim that instead of Cersei? Also, I don't care that you love to cultivate your "too lazy to contribute on D1" meta; link me to where he softclaimed Tyrion. Go on. What makes you so confident that that was an actual softclaim?

Pity it's too late in the day for me to push my daycop guilty on you. :(
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Post Post #1435 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:29 pm

Post by Minimum »

EBWOP: I think I misunderstood Stefan as having actually
claimed
Cersei. Let me rephrase that. You're voting Stefan because you think that he decided to softclaim an evil-sounding character? Because he didn't have a fakeclaim? (Never mind that Faraday subverts character names all the time--even if Tyrion is a fakeclaim, it's a fakeclaim that Faraday
intended
to be aligned with the innocents.)
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Post Post #1436 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:48 pm

Post by bvoigt »

I will be online in ~9 hours, and claim then if necessary.

In post 1293, Tyene Sand wrote:What on earth is this.
People don't have to ask you questions. People don't have to do your work for you. If you're town, pull your own weight--no one is going to do that for you.
You have seven votes on you at the moment, and are voting your counterwagon just to save your skin without even acknowledging those voters. Who do you think are the scum in your wagon? Why aren't you engaging them AT ALL? Why are you just voting to save your sorry backside without giving any sign that you would be a much better asset to town than Shadow1psc?


Wagon analysis is not how I scumhunt. I think it can work for other people, but it hasn't been effective for me in the past. Plus, with the deadline coming up, half-hearted bandwagon votes are no longer a scumtell. (I'm generalizing here, but you get the idea.) It's for this reason that I feel like DCL's #1374 is "trying too hard."

In post 1374, DCLXVI wrote:
Feysal
: I find it interesting that I am listed as null-leaning scum, and starbuck is listed as scum but Feysal puts his choose on me.
still scum.


Would it make any sense for Feysal to be one of 2 Choose votes on Starbuck when the deadline is close
and
he found DCL somewhat scummy? His case on Lyanna is equally contrived. This just seems like a last-ditch attempt to get towncred, especially because of what Tierce had just said. It doesn't look sincere at all. You know what, I think both of our choose wagons are scum and don't want another claim today.

Unchoose: Feysal
Choose: DCL

@Mina: Can you give an example of a Faraday game where an evil-seeming character was actually town? The only possible explanation I see here is that Stefan is scum and screwed up.

UNVOTE: Shadow
VOTE: StefanB
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Post Post #1437 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:05 pm

Post by Minimum »

So bvoigt, you coincidentally think that both the leading Choose wagon AND the leading vote wagon other than yourself are both scum? There are no doubts whatsoever in your mind?

Also, what exactly is the scum motivation for DC to behave like this? Why exactly is he trying to get towncred by his case on Lyanna? (I'm missing a step in your argument.)

In
A Clash of Kings
, he made Sandor Clegane and Petyr Baelish townies (where town were the Starks), and Tyrion Lannister Mafia. (He also made Melisandre a fakeclaim.) But more likely,
he fucking gives scum fakeclaims.
EVERY SINGLE GAME, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.
So Stefan's softclaim is null at absolute best.

Furthermore, what the fuck? He hasn't actually 100% softclaimed Tyrion, anyway. It might be the language barrier.

This is annoying. I hate it when I suspect the lynch option(s) that hasn't claimed more than the lynch option who has claimed. (Personally, I'd go bvoigt>Sapo>Stefan, but my other half would probably veto this order.) I also think Feysal is moderately more likely to be scum than DC now, too (although his long reads post seemed more genuine than the one he did in Court of the Gods on the verge of being lynched).
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Post Post #1438 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:11 pm

Post by Minimum »

By the way, on the off-chance I die tonight (sadly, it would probably be by vig rather than nightkill), here is the link to the torturer role. The only difference is that Shadow's results are the role title rather than the name of the active ability. There is no fucking way he made up that claim. (Sorry, Shadow. I should have left you alone when you made that "I'm not getting lynched or chosen today" post.)

I don't have Internet at home, so that's all my posting for tonight.
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Post Post #1439 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:42 pm

Post by bvoigt »

I've thought that Feysal and DCL were scum for a long time. And even if I didn't think Stefan was scum, it would still be pro-town for me to vote him. Obviously, I'm not 100% sure on any of my reads. What's your point?

Here is the scenario I'm envisioning: Tierce had just called me out for not analyzing my wagon. DCL was desperately looking to get towncred because he was about to get chosen. So he decided that it would look town to analyze the wagon on him. However, to me, his analysis looks completely contrived and insincere. (Gut is a part of that, I guess you could say.) It doesn't feel like a townie's true beliefs; it just feels like scum trying to look helpful.

Are you sure you have the right game? I don't think Tyrion and Littlefinger were in ACoK Mafia. Actually, I don't want to talk about this anymore until Stefan answers this:

@Stefan: Have you read the books?
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Post Post #1440 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:45 pm

Post by Saporerint »

Littlefinger's listed there, as Littlefinger rather than Baelish. It looks like MacavityLock (survived to endgame) was Tyrion.

- Iec
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Post Post #1441 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:54 pm

Post by Feysal »

I took a day off to catch up in another game I had been neglecting, and again I find myself pages behind. I can't catch up properly before the deadline, so I have only skimmed enough to know the current situation, who has claimed and what. It looks like all that needs to be done today is to make up my mind about bvoigt and StefanB.

Reading bvoigt in isolation and comparing his play to his meta did not yield much. He looks to have been coasting this game, but that may not be indicative of alignment, since I found no previous evidence of him lurking as scum, and several players have either replaced out or have trouble keeping up, including myself. The content of his posts is more problematic though. He seems to spend much of his time answering questions and explaining himself rather than actively looking for scum, which I would expect from him as town. And there are some thoughts of his I find suspect. The defense of Starbuck and suspecting me for believing her to be scum is obvious, but I feel there is something off about his reaction to MoI's self choice as well.

I get the point about scum trying to deliberately invoke a town tell by self choosing, as that is exactly what I believe Starbuck was doing, but I find it odd that bvoigt would find MoI suspicious for this while defending Starbuck, particularly since I chanced on a comment in a past town game of his where he called self voting null. The only difference bvoigt mentions between them is that MoI would have been asking for town credit by asking what the scum motivation of self choosing was. Frankly, this makes no sense. Sure, scum will try to invoke town tells if they can, but for them to be effective they have to be subtle. You have to trick the reader into believing the tell is genuine instead of planted, and bluntly calling attention to the tell is entirely counterproductive. I believe MoI was just being facetious, and that has no bearing on his alignment.

In the same post bvoigt questions why supposed scum MoS would make an obviously incorrect case. I have to wonder why he does not question why supposed scum MoI would make an obvious plea for town credit? He should know MoI is too experienced a player to try something that crude.

VOTE: bvoigt

I don't get what the case on StefanB is supposed to be, and even looking at the posts of those voting him only turned up vague suspicion from Regfan and several players sheeping him, only kortul had something of a case. I still think his early play, particularly correcting himself, makes him more likely town. I believe bvoigt is far more likely to flip scum.

In post 1231, bvoigt wrote:You seem to be one of the few people, if not the only person, to suspect Starbuck. What makes shooting her a better idea than shooting someone who you have a weaker scumread on, but also is more of a consensus choice as scum?

I don't have many strong suspects to begin with, and I think a vig shot is best used on suspicious players that would be hard to get lynched. Starbuck has proven unexpectedly difficult to start a wagon on. The only benefit I see in a consensus choice is that it may give more connections, but I think quite enough people have commented on Starbuck too.

I also saw Shadow claimed, but there is not much to be said or done about it now. He is not getting lynched or chosen today, and with that claim he may not last the night. My choice is staying on DCLXVI, obviously.
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Post Post #1442 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:02 pm

Post by bvoigt »

Ah, I see. Thanks. But that game called townies "Innocent Aligned," which is completely up for interpretation.

Feysal, not sure what I can say about Magna and Starbuck's respective self-chooses, other than that I totally disagree. And now I'm going to bed.
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Post Post #1443 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:02 pm

Post by DCLXVI »

In post 1439, bvoigt wrote:DCL was desperately looking to get towncred because he was about to get chosen. So he decided that it would look town to analyze the wagon on him.


Actually I think someone asked me to analyze my wagon. (I forget who) so your point there is bs.
Sarcasm is
not
a scumtell.
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Post Post #1444 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:12 pm

Post by Eddard Stark »

The Golden Company is a company of sellswords founded by the Great Bastard, Bittersteel. They are considered the largest, most famous, and most expensive sellsword or mercenary company in the Free Cities. Despite the notorious unreliability of sellswords, the Golden Company is reputed to have never broken a contract. Their motto is "Our word is good as gold."



Day 1, Votecount 52

Saporerint (3) - Shadow1psc, BBmolla, Albert B. Rampage
Feysal (1) - Starbuck
Shadow1psc (1) - Mockingjaye
bvoigt (11) - greenknight, SnowStorm, Pandora, Seraphim, Plessiezarus, MagnaofIllusion, Plums Yo Mamma, Dolorous Edd, Staeg, Shinori, Feysal

StefanB (8) - Regfan, Tyene Sand, Saporerint, Lyanna Stark, kortul, Mastermind of Sin, DCLXVI, bvoigt
Plums Yo Mamma (2) Benmage, StefanB

Not Voting (2):
Jal, Minimum

With 28 alive it takes 15 to lynch.

  • Deadline
    : 5th September at 11:59pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)
  • Countdown to deadline
    : (expired on 2012-09-05 18:59:59)
  • Starbuck is V/la




CHOOSE VALLEYS
Feysal (8) - greenknight, Shinori, DCLXVI, Benmage, Albert B. Rampage, Saporerint, Mastermind of Sin, Jal
Minimum (2) - Mockingjaye, MagnaofIllusion
Starbuck (1) - Starbuck
greenknight (1) - Seraphim
DLCXVI (13) - Tyene Sand, Plessiezarus, Regfan, Pandora, Feysal, Lyanna Stark, Kortul, Plums Yo Mamma, Staeg, Dolorous Edd, SnowStorm, Shadow1psc, bvoigt

kortul (1) StefanB

Not Choosing (2):
Minimum, BBmolla

With 28 alive it takes 15 to 'Choose'. Once a choose has 15 votes it will be locked in but not end day.


Just under 19 hours until deadline.
War has arrived!

PM me for Dead QT access!
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Post Post #1445 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:52 pm

Post by kortul »

In post 1437, Minimum wrote:In
A Clash of Kings
, he made Sandor Clegane and Petyr Baelish townies (where town were the Starks), and Tyrion Lannister Mafia. (He also made Melisandre a fakeclaim.) But more likely,
he fucking gives scum fakeclaims.
EVERY SINGLE GAME, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.
So Stefan's softclaim is null at absolute best.

Furthermore, what the fuck? He hasn't actually 100% softclaimed Tyrion, anyway. It might be the language barrier.
Mina is correct - if our mod indeed gives fake claims without request, suspecting Stefan based just on RP part of the claim is wrong.

In post 1437, Minimum wrote:This is annoying.
I hate it when I suspect the lynch option(s) that hasn't claimed more than the lynch option who has claimed.
(Personally, I'd go bvoigt>Sapo>Stefan, but my other half would probably veto this order.) I also think Feysal is moderately more likely to be scum than DC now, too (although his long reads post seemed more genuine than the one he did in Court of the Gods on the verge of being lynched).
That's where my exact thoughts when i voted him, i tried to explain them, but Mina right here made it better. I just don't have a hydra partner to consult. Feysal thinks that i presented a case on Stefan - it wasn't a case, since i couldn't read him, it was my recollection of his ISO, with thoughts on what i like and what i don't like. I hoped that those who know Stefan better can help, apparently nobody is interested. Without the claim, when i made my post my vote would go to bvoigt, that's why i was frustrated with Stefan - with claim i see voting him as less damaging to the town. Iec also tried to explain it from a logical point of view, so at least someone understands that. After the last post from Stefan i am more content with my vote, but if i will have time at work i will meta read some of his recent games, just to be sure.
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Post Post #1446 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:21 pm

Post by greenknight »

Well stefan's claim is pretty ambiguous, and I can't see a scum tyrion not having a safe claim or claiming such a suspicious name as tyrion for that matter

Do not see what is so scummy about stefan's ISo. Can we please lynch bvoigt
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Post Post #1447 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:47 pm

Post by StefanB »

Okay first thinks first: I am not claiming Tyrion, I claim someone who is an enemy of Cersei, not the crown or whatever else you believe in. The short was not a crumb, it started later.
There are 2 reason why I don't make the chara clear.
1. I have used crumbs since the beginning, so yeah I want them to be used.
2. If I am replacing out/ it should be my sucessor that makes the claim clear. (Way more believable and helpful to town since it is more sincere)

I have read the books, not yesterday so I know the mainplot not necesary details like which sandsister is which.

Since the plumwaggon is not going of, well
Unvote
Vote: Bvoight
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Post Post #1448 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:10 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Mina once again speaks wisely.

Unvote, Vote: Bvoight


L-2. Claim or die.
Permanent V/LA.
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Post Post #1449 (ISO) » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:45 pm

Post by Pandora »

This might sound dumb to you all, but isn't Tyrion the little Lannister dwarf? How is that an anti-Lannister scum thing?

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