The StarCraft II thread

[Kinetic]

Kinetic's Predictions
A: Huk wins group, DRG Second
B: InControl takes the group in a shocker, Idra second
C: MMA clean sweep, Open player gets second
D: MVP 1st, Select 2nd

Also, Kinetic.917, just placed into Plat.

[Kinetic]

And Boxer kind of won the fight in the picture (Boxer is the one in Red)

[Kinetic]

at least he got code s

Nothing like skipping Code A entirely. Money was on DRG to get that slot, some were even saying Gom was conspiring to let him have it by sending Boxer (supposedly out of shape) and MVP (already Code S). Too bad MMA is too damn baller for that.

[Kinetic]

The Code A spot will probably be given to Ret, Sjow, Slush and Kiwikaki (Idra and Sheth will refuse) and Naniwa and Huk already have code A/S.

Otherwise it's still the same problem. The bracket system is very rewarding for players who are getting spanked in pools ... So retarded ><

Ret was in Korea and left. I doubt he'll take the slot.

Sooo MVP and Bomber invited to Raleigh.

MMA probably won't get an invite again, (it'll likely be 2 Code A/Code B players now). Hopefully SlayerS can send him out - he's seeded 2nd in MLG now.

MVP getting invited bumps Sheth into the pools now, since MVP was the 8th seeded player after Anaheim. coL will probably try and send DRG, try and get him more points for NCs, since right now he has to fight through the Open Bracket.

I thought I heard any "invited" players points don't count toward NC, that they only count if they come on their own dime. And MMA can't be invited back. Can only recurring invite someone if they won the competition.

[Kinetic]

Ill be at MLG Orlando. Looking into getting a Press Pass right now.

[Kinetic]

I got Gold. It was annoying not being able to watch both streams in high quality. Sundance said it would be fixed by Raleigh. Every time the other stream came on I'd get interrupted and it was bothering me. So far though its not enough to get me mad. If it happens in Raleigh though I'm going to get annoyed.

[Kinetic]

Whoever said I was on a site? I've done freelance work all through college, but I don't have time to work full or part time for an organization with law school. Doesn't matter though, they only give press passes to big organizations basically :/.

[Kinetic]

Thorzain v Naniwa, game 2 from European Invitational. OMG!

[Kinetic]

I missed the end of game 3 because my internet dropped out .

[Kinetic]

To a point. It could start hurting him though if he loses the mental game. Him and Idra lose more games because of their mental state than they should.

[Kinetic]

All I have to say is MMA v Nestea was just devastating for the person who ended up losing that game.

[Kinetic]

This week's Funday Monday was seriously hilarious. Seriously. If you haven't, go see it now!

Did not disappoint.

[Kinetic]

Latin American Invitational is now, CatZ vs. KT.Kapoch. JP/Day[9] casting.

Yea, was just watching that. I have to go do a thing, but I hope Catz wins.

[Kinetic]

This isn't really the best place Death Note.

[Kinetic]

What race you play Reck?

[Kinetic]

Well, I could practice with you sometime (but unlikely to be anytime soon). I play Protoss and I'm Plat right now.

[Kinetic]

I'm Kinetic.917, so if you don't know your name number maybe you should message me, lol.

[Kinetic]

Reck, behave. Cursing isn't needed. DeathNote, although his tone was wrong, his message was correct. Please head over to a thread in the Mafia section of the site, or the replacements thread.

The General Discussion forum is generally for non-mafia related talk, and just because your game has something similar to a topic doesn't give you permission to spam that thread with advertisements. You've said it once, we got it then. Continuing to post about it is in bad taste. Further continuing after being told this will be met with me contacting the general discussion mods and asking for a special favor. Got it?

[Kinetic]

I got promoted to platinum 1v1 last night. It was after beating a terran whose strategy seemed to be "make a lot of hellions, then follow it up with more units that can't hit air".

Sounds like an MLG SlayerS strat.

[Kinetic]

I don't think that this is it. This is part 1. I think they're acquiring more Koreans soon.

[Kinetic]

Coca could surprise group 1. His PvZ is incredible, and he has 3 P in the group. Rain will be tough, but I'm betting out of practice.

[Kinetic]

Reck: How does the venue look?

Second: The stream looks like its got the second stage on stream.



Wild Reck sighting? He was in a better position for a moment, but then I missed it.

[Kinetic]

Better screen shot. Making sure to save these deletion links so that if Reck wants I can remove them from imgur later.

[Kinetic]

DROP MAFIA SCUM'S NAME! You better give me a shout out!

[Kinetic]

DAT NUKE!

[Kinetic]

True, but such a baller nuke. 6 sentries simply vaporized...

[Kinetic]

[Kinetic]

Hascow?
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments ... _2/c2fnl5u

[Kinetic]

Hascow?
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments ... _2/c2fnl5u

yep, but I told you that elsewhere.

<3 ONE OF US. ONE OF US.

[Kinetic]

it's ok guys, I downloaded the starter edition overnight since it's free. Then we'll see whether I actually play it or just watch.

I'll be honest that I watch more than I play. Its worth it to buy it though if only for the campaign and some one-off custom games. The customs aren't as good yet as they have been previously, but that is mainly because of the bad search system.

If you want to play some games (you'll only be able to play as terran from starter) I play Protoss at around a Plat level.

[Kinetic]

FRIENDS! Upvote this: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comme ... e_started/

[Kinetic]

Love this game I just played.

Guy cannon rushes me, then BMs me, so instead of just gging and leaving, I send all my probes out of my base and build a new base elsewhere. Eventually he found it, but right before he won he dropped and I got the win.

[Kinetic]

Spoiler: gsl

Poor Foxer ;_;

Don't worry, Yellow is joining GSL, so soon Forever Silver will have a friend.

[Kinetic]

WHAT IS THIS TALK OF HAVING FUN WITH STARCRAFT II

4v4 TL Open.
SATURDAY.
NOON EST.

WE NEED 1.

/maybe

[Kinetic]

Both Zerg and Protoss are underdeveloped. Terran is pretty ok, although I'm sure there are some things that could be added, for the most part the Terran tech tree is pretty solid. For Terran there just needs to be adjustments in damage/health/etc, but they don't need any more units unless some are taken out. I could see the reaper, hellion, raven, and banshee removed for new units.

Protoss is a little better off, but I really think Zerg is underdeveloped right now and could use some love.

Zerg need something in tier 2 that isn't horrible and Ultras need to be fixed somehow. Muta are too situational, Infesters are good, but unless you're Destiny they're best as support, Corrupters are horrible even as anti-air and are just an extra cost for Broodlords, and hydras suck off creep, and on creep they're decent.

Zerg early game seems "ok" right now, and I use quotations on that because it isn't bad. It could be a little more rounded out, maybe another unit that comes out of the spawning pool or roach warren (or perhaps combine the roach warren and baneling nest so both are produced from the same building, that would be interesting). Actually, that is my first change, combine the baneling nest and roach warren into one building. Lets call it Arachnid Pod or something. Make it the same cost as the Warren (150/0), and make it have a 20 second upgrade for 50/50 that allows zerglings to morph into banelings. Also, I might be willing to entertain Queens becoming massive units.

Tier 2 for Zerg is just horrid, as I said before. What do Protoss have for Tier 2? Immortals, Obs, Warp Prisms, Phoenix, Void Rays. Terran? Hellions, Siege Tanks, Ghosts, and Terran 2.5 is just as strong with Valks, Ravens, Banshees, Medivacs and Thors. What does Zerg have? Hydras, Infesters, Mutas and Corrupters. Bleh bleh bleh.

First, zerg needs some kind of siege unit of any kind in tier 2. Lurkers don't really fit, nor Brood Lords. I'd almost be willing to drop Ultras into Zerg Tier 2 right now because I think it would raddically change the meta game and I think they'd be useful here. Actually, I like that, Ultras to Tier 2. That would solve a lot of the Zerg issues in Tier 2. Yes, this would be a strong change of the meta, and ultras might need to be toned down a bit (perhaps make their frenzied ability a trainable ability, and maybe make them have a damage upgrade like chit plating and lower their base damage to compensate) but I'm looking more at units and the feel of the race and less at numbers right now.

Next, Zerg Tier 3, which consists pretty much of Broodlords now that Ultras have been dropped down to Tier 2. I think we need a new caster unit. Either something like the SC1 Queen or the SC1 Defiler. I'm sure there are MANY zergs that would love to see the SC1 Defiler in SC2. Maybe add Lurkers to tier 3, but I'm unsure they fit.

For Protoss, a lot of toss issues revolve around the incredibly strong gateway units. This is what makes PvP so weird and hard to balance. I loved Day 9's comment during MLG: "In PvP the best strategy used to be 4gate, but then blizzard nerfed the 4gate timing, making to take longer, so now the best strategy in PvP is a slightly slower 4gate." And that really is the truth of the matter. When I play PvP, either I lose to a zealot rush (sometimes), or I crush them with 4 gate. If I 4 gate my win % is something like 80% against other Protoss. And gateways are strong into the end game with templar tech, or great fodder for robotics tech.

If anything, I really think Protoss needs to be completely revamped in HotS, but I doubt we'll see the overhaul from the top down that is needed. If Zerg needs more units, Protoss needs different mechanics.

First: Warping in is FUN AS HELL. But balancing it is fucking torture. The fact of the matter is that a pylon on the other side of the field makes it possible for a protoss to instantly reinforce, which no other race can do even half as good. And it is available so early that it makes early pushing much stronger.

Frankly, this needs to be reigned in a LOT. My solution is something like: units cannot be warped in that are not X units away from the Nexus until a Twilight Council is on the field. When a Twilight Council is on the field, then any pylon can be used. Or, better yet, only Warp Prisms can be used for long distance warp-ins, and only pylons within X of nexus can be used to warp in (something liberal so that you can warp in anywhere in your base, but not very far out of it).

For Protoss higher tiers, I think for right now it looks OK. I would be interested in a new higher tier alternative, either in the Twilight Council itself, or move the Warp Prism to the Stargate and drop something new in the Robotics, but I don't think it is too bad right now.

[Kinetic]

Nah, I'm not assuming stats/cost at all. I'm looking at units and blatently saying that as it stands now if they kept the stats they might be imbalanced. I'm just saying that it needs some change.

[Kinetic]

sc2bw is so balanced.

Clearly you weren't playing it back when seige tanks dealt 140 dmg.

BEST. DAY9. DAILY. EVER.

[Kinetic]

And if I join I can either 4 gate or zealot rush. My favorite 4s idea is z rush to triple forge, then Zealot/DT/Archon.

[Kinetic]

Just purchased my spectator pass for MLG Orlando. ANyone else going tob e there?

[Kinetic]

DRG vs Thorzain game 2 from DreamHack Valencia Invitational was oddly Brood Waresque.

Thorzain is quite patient.

Game 4 my god!

[Kinetic]

There are certain players that can play that well with practice.

Idra (although he is slumping), Huk, Select among Americans

Nani, Thorzain, Morrow, Dimaga have all shown moments of brilliance and can show them again among Europeans.

I think the scene will always have a larger percentage of Koreans among the top, but I'd like to think eventually it will get to the point where the Foreign scene competes pretty well. Right now the Foreign

fan

scene is much better for SC2.

[Kinetic]

On another level, Complexity Gaming are fucking assholes, picking up Stephano overnight without letting his team do the news first was VERY rude. How is that hard to understand for Americans.

I had to actually search REALLY hard to find any "drama" about this. Frankly,the drama is coming from "xeris" (aka, the asshole who basically thinks of himself as on par with the god of e-sports, is responsible for the odd tournament structure of the NASL, is a manager on Fnatic at team that has no stake at all in this, and who is known among the community as a dick).

CoL picked up an un-contracted player who had expressed interest in moving on from a team that made it abundantly clear they only were uninterested in any international event. As the move was very known within the community (hell, I even heard about it before the announcement) CoL announced it as soon as everything was finalized.

How hard is it for non-Americans to understand that "rude" in business means virtually nothing. Some people refer to "rudeness" or "disrespect" and stir up crap when they are just unhappy with the decisions grown men make. I haven't heard anything from Mill themselves, but everyone stirring up drama needs to grow up.

[Kinetic]

Thanks for proving my point Kinetic. Respect is something related to culture. And there are differences between the French and the Americans. Respect means maybe nothing to you and that's your call but it doesn't mean it is invalid for everyone. Money rules in the US, traditions rule in France. It is time to widen your horizon.

And I am impressed you even know Millenium ... But you are wrong about the international events, it is a matter of cost-efficiency (MLG being the utter fooltrap it is) not interest.

Oh and Xeris was just defending the point I made, which I am surprised you didn't see (since you obviously read TL), it has nothing to do with drama. It is just correctly expressed criticism (at least it was in TL, I just rage here )

EDIT : And yes, I rage here because I don't want to get banned on TL [redacted]
EDIT 2 : I'll make an update post after I get the news from [M]

I love the blanket statements. I can make them too. Whenever anyone visits France, despite the Americans who the French can thank for not having to speak German, the French act like self-important assholes. Hey that was fun. -.-

I never said respect means nothing, but you're getting butt hurt over nothing

in this particular situation

. Mill. was holding Stephano back, he was not under contract (and I'm assuming not under salary either), Mill refused to send him to international tournaments, recruit players to help him practice, etc etc etc. He moved on. No one said anything bad about Mill, not one said they were a bad team, but their goals didn't align with Stephanos. Enough said. Complaining about "respect" is meaningless because it simply sounds like you're trying to make something out of nothing. Your only "fact" is they announced it at a certain time, but you don't even have any evidence that this wasn't completely expected to happen as soon as it was finalized and Mill knew that. The only "respect" you care about is one of your favorite players is no longer on the same team. Big deal.

I

thought

that may have been you, but frankly, you're the only one (besides Xeris, but you know how I feel about him) mentioning anything about Respect, or how Mill. was disrespected here. Frankly, here and there, you are the only one saying anything about it (save Xeris). If Mill said something, maybe we'd have an issue, but even then some peoples need to get over it.

Maybe I'm overreacting and not seeing your side, but frankly I've seen this over and over again, and constantly the "big bad americans" are being painted as the bad guys, and that just isn't so. No one forced Stephano or anyone else to do anything. Mill had plenty of time before everything was finalized, but they sat on their hands and were "surprised".

If you want to take nationalities out of this, I'm ok with that as well. CoL made a move that may have been "disrespectful" to one company. Fine. I don't agree, but be that as it may, that is all this is. This isn't an international incident. This isn't the Americans declaring war on the French (or the Koreans). CoL had to make a statement as soon as everything was final or face a situation like the one EG faced with Puma. And if you read everything that happened after that fiasco, you'd probably realize that although EG may have stumbled, it was blown way out of proportion from what it really was.

Edit Note: Ironic that you say traditions rule, and then widen your horizon. Isn't it the other way around, don't you widen your horizons by breaking with "tradition"?

[Kinetic]

Nah, the Americans thing is a trope I used whenever I wanna pissed someone's off in MS. Pretty efficient I should say though it makes me look like a douche, which is fair I guess. I was 'just' raging.

I can tell you Mill isn't happy about how it turned out. Stephano was supposed to leave the team today - after his TV show - and join coL whenever he wanted afterwards. He only blossomed during the Summer; that's 4 months. I knew this kid when he played WC3 and we, his fans for more than 3 months, felt like he deserved to go honorably not having to comply to a new regimen even before he could say himself to his fans that he was leaving. coL forced his and Mill's hands by announcing it just after the deal was sealed, it was a commercial move because he is more famous than all of their players except the MVP one's. Whereas it was known for a long time, I don't know; LwL (the manager) probably knew for a long time but I'm not informed of that kind of thing inside.

Aside from the form, it's a dumb move because Millenium was racking up money to send him abroad and he put them in a difficult spot. He was too greedy otherwise he would have been a member of mouz who recruited biGs instead of him. And since the team leagues are overall very poorly organized - EGCL V was a total mess, with admin not showing up on time and not distributing penalties when due - it isn't worth it to keep a player like him when he wants too much money - which is what he wants.

PS : There are still a lot of differences about how money and companies relations are handled in France and the US. Even in science this kind of thing happen and god knows most scientist only cares about their work. Some just only care about the money however ...
PS 2 : I speak German too :p

First, while mouz is a fine team, and I remember them from the WC3 days, CoL is a major market international team. Some people don't feel the CoL/MVP deal is a big deal, but it is. Not to mention CoL is in more games than just SC2 and that brings stability. mouz just doesn't have that.

Frankly, while I agree money isn't the only thing, saying it is unimportant and someone should just be happy to play is bullshit. I know that is not exactly what you said, but this is their job. Selfishness and greed is good as long as it is not taken to extremes. In order to survive, we as a species has to be selfish. We survive because we selfishly feel we are more important than the bacteria in the air we breath, the animals and plants that we eat, and all the habitats we take over to raise our off-spring in. If he can make more money, and has more opportunity, with another team, he has every right to go for it instead of waiting for the maybe. [M] has stated they intend on focusing on France and forsaking the international scene. That's why the lost ToD recently too.

BTW, not sure if you followed wcreplays, but for a while I went by the name Kyuubi on there and did some casting back in the day.

PS: Not surprising you know German. I'm jealous i wish i knew more languages than English, but remember the only reason France isn't a German colony is because of red-white-and blue. Although I suppose if we're being fair if it wasn't for the French Blockade at Yorktown then perhaps the American Revolution wouldn't have been won in our favor.

[Kinetic]

The last word of this story is Stephano stays on Millenium.

That's why you don't force people's hands.

No, that isn't the last word. If this ends up being true Stephano just broke a major contract with a major team. Hope [M] can support him for the rest of his life because this is pretty huge...

I think [M] in the eleventh hour had second thoughts and may have just made a shitstorm where there wasn't one, and convinced Stephano that he should feel the same way. Good job, in [M]'s haste, they just turned a relatively minor player transfer into an international incident, lol. Isn't that what you just claimed CoL did?

This really grates me though, it screams of isolationism and prejudice.

Now, let's stop bringing ourselves down, lets stop thinking that a french player has to play abroad to succeed.

Then...

He will travel across the world to win many tournaments, from Asia to the USA.

Which is it? Did [M] re-think its isolationist philosophy, or is one of these a throw-away line?

Edit: Also, point in fact, while CoL never said a single bad thing about [M], I love how [M] decided to basically accuse CoL of everything under the sun in their Press Release. Especially when players are saying the only reasons Steph resigned was because of that "money" concept you abhor.

[Kinetic]

The press release was in french, I did some part of the translation. It sounds very anti-americanistic (and it is) but it was intended to french fans and it plays on that. Not to be translated. I am as disgusted by the way Millenium handled the shit though. I am so pissed right now too. It will take months for M to get back into TL and be accepted. I wanted to nail a job with them to promote them with the english community. Now it's gonna be impossible ... Dumbasses ><

Concerning your two comments, it makes sense because they want to keep the huge roots in France with their webtv which is starting to kick in and send people to compete abroad. And if you never went to France you can't understand the enormous undermining complex that cripples people here. That's not a prejudice.

On the other hand, coL is threatening people and that isn't the right way to do things either.

While its true I've never been to France, I have heard many stories about how French companies cannot be competitive internationally because of their bureaucratic policies, and thus are cripplingly isolationist. But this is a circular argument (they are un-competitive because they are isolationist and they are isolationist because they are un-competitive). But those are larger issues that cannot be handled here. That is basically asking us to treat French teams/companies with kid gloves because their country can't get its shit together (economically). (Not saying France is all bad, but perhaps you'll agree they are hurting themselves with these views)

And they aren't threatening anyone. They're saying (quite rightly) "Hey! We had a contract... That isn't going away and we're going to see what we can do about that." This isn't about hurt feelings anymore. Once a contract is involved its a legal dispute. Threatening legal action is not a "threat", its more akin to exercising a right.

[Kinetic]

I wanted to nail a job with them to promote them with the english community.

Thanks for revealing the conflict of interest that only confirms the idiocy of your posting on this subject.

At first I was just venting about the way coL did their press release. It got way worse as the day went by and I'm not responsible for that. But yeah, they were a conflict of interest, however you should pay attention to what you say. I'm not lying to anyone, I just expressed my point of view which was obviously biased but you didn't need to read that statement to know that.

They're saying (quite rightly) "Hey! We had a contract... That isn't going away and we're going to see what we can do about that." This isn't about hurt feelings anymore. Once a contract is involved its a legal dispute. Threatening legal action is not a "threat", its more akin to exercising a right.

Also - this.

I have heard with the manager of Millenium, the contract wasn't legally 'binding' AT ALL. There were a number of loopholes and it wasn't a working contract. It was almost illegal work. Also Stephano wasn't augmented by staying with Millenium but he would have been if he was going to coL. coL never contacted directly Millenium

As a law student, and knowing that Jason Bass (or was it Lake?) of CoL is a lawyer, just based on the little I've heard I sincerely doubt the credibility of [M] Manager saying it "wasn't a legally binding contract". Even IF that were the case under French Law, that is not necessarily the law that governs in this case. Even IF it does, this is still a horrible blow to eSports in general. I players don't live up to their commitments, what sponsor is going to want to sign on to pay them? (This is not to be taken as legal advice). Forgive me if I don't take the word of the [M] manager that has basically proven with this that he can't be trusted.

In business, generally it is inappropriate to directly contact a competitor in such a situation, especially during a bidding war. This can be seen as collusion and is illegal in most countries as a matter of law. Call that "disrespectful" but it is a protection for the employee in such a situation.

What do you mean "augmented" (playing too much DX:HR) in this context. Do you mean harmed?

[Kinetic]

Then we will just agree to disagree. I trust LwL you trust coL. So be it. I don't think I am able to think straight now (I don't even think I did today ><) I won't comment on this anymore and should be spit upon if I do (won't change much :p)

augmented == paid more. Meaning he isn't staying for the money from his contract but for the benefits he will get with a formal french contract (including social protection and retirement pension)

On a more light-hearted note (because this is getting really depressing), I am psyched by the upcoming events : IPL, MLG Orlando, ESWC (I am going there !!!!!!), Blizzcon, IEM Gangzhou and NY. October is gonna be SO good.

Its not a matter of trust, its a matter of a horribly biased manager who guilted a young player with a signed contract into breaking that contract. Say what you will about its enforceability, that is a question for the courts, not the forums, that isn't the issue here. The issue is that you are basically agreeing with the isolationist stance of both [M] and by extension anyone who supports them is spouting and basically spitting in the face of anything that is not that. This doesn't just effect CoL. NO TEAM WILL DEAL WITH STEPHANO AFTER THIS DAY. Period. He is damaged goods now. NO TEAM WILL DEAL WITH [M] AFTER THIS. They better be happy with France because that is literally all they will ever be able to do. Players from [M] will now be stigmatized by this internationally. This does nothing but hurt [M] and French players.

Whether CoL gets their "just reward" or successfully sues [M] is irrelevant.

The tournaments look great. I'll be at MLG Orlando, but..

Stephano won't be. That or anything else outside of France. O wait...

[Kinetic]

Kinetic since you're a law student, I'm going to throw this post your way to see if you may know the answer or not:

The last issue here is enforceability. If the contract is deemed legal by the Texan judge (which is very likely), and the French judge deems it an illegal employment contract (which is also very likely), then the contract will be null on French soil. What can be done if, and when, Stephano sets foot in the US, is another matter.

Since you seem to be one of the very few here with a basic idea what they are talking about (sorry about the borderline insult, but wtf why does everyone feels he is qualified to talk legal when obviously 99% of the users here have never, ever studied law in the details required to comprehend the situation in questions?):

Do you know if there are any bilateral agreements between France and the US regarding the enforcement of employment contracts? Because, even though I agree with you on the principal matter, if such agreements exist, those could possibly overrule the fact that French courts would have to apply French Law. In other words, if a bilateral agreement states that France has to enforce certain (!) US-court-decisions, then it doesn't matter at all if the contract violates French employment Law. All that the French court was allowed to verify in this case would be if the US decision is indeed a valid one (not forged/etc.).

I'm not sure, but seeing as it is France and we're America I can't see why we wouldn't. We're both major UN members, allies, etc. But then again, it isn't something that politicians would pressure France about, so I can't say it will definitely be enforced even if.

my guess would be that the jurisdiction for the contract is the jurisdiction of the employer

The contract states that the Choice of Law is Texas, and I'm sure Texas has jurisdiction based on

Burger King

(Yes, that's a case for non-lawyers. Its actually very famous too.) I figure CoL has Steph/Mill dead to rights for breach and tortuous interference based on the theory that Steph was an independent contractor and Mill convinced Steph to breach. I don't see Mill coming to Texas to defend though, so at best they'll get a default judgment over anything they want.

The real question is if they'll get the full faith and credit from France and if France will assist in enforcing the judgment. Despite what Mill says, I have a feeling they're going to get reamed by this both from a PR standpoint and a financial one. This sort of willful misconduct is looked down upon by many courts.

Disclaimer: This is not legal advice. I am not a lawyer. Any reliance upon the information here is misplaced and I am not responsible if you decide act on any of the information here. This is an uneducated, non-legal opinion, without any pertinent knowledge other than the little that has been released by the parties. Any or all of this may be wrong, and you should consult a lawyer if legal advice is needed.

[Kinetic]

Really funny Reddit post

This guy is really witty.

[Kinetic]

What I have figured out since buying

SCII

Blizzard Games. Custom maps > normal multiplayer

FTFY

[Kinetic]

I think Blizzard will incorporate more community maps in Season 4. At least I hope so.

O, that's cute.

[Kinetic]

Apparently I missed a shitstorm with IPL yesterday.

Truck hit a comcast poll, took out internet to Atlantic City. Delayed the start about 3-4 hours. The late games ended up mostly being coin flips as everyone who was guaranteed a spot in the final bracket didn't want to play it out. Idra forfeited all his matches after nearly falling asleep versus White Ra. Most of the open bracket ended in coinflips. Group C was decided almost exclusively by coinflip.

[Kinetic]

I'm at mlg Orlando. Red and blue horizontal striped Polo. You might see me on the audiance pans.

[Kinetic]

Idra declined a physics scholarship... and you think that's an insult? That is a horrible way to look at it. He pursued his dream instead of something he wanted to do as a back up and as a result, someone who wanted a scholarship but wouldn't have gotten one instead got a scholarship in physics. They don't just disappear you know...

[Kinetic]

You have to admit that it's a little bit annoying to see that someone who could be sustained to study for a real job choose an entertainment career instead. Most of my class lives with less than 700 euros pro month, which may seem like a lot but when transportation and lodging alone cost between 500 and 600 euros. I have monies problem but I can make it through while working part time, these guys are literally starving. I don't really condone what he did but maybe it's just me.

I'm sorry to hear that AGar, are you in a private university ?

Frankly, that argument can be used on so many people it isn't funny. And why does your definition of a "real job" matter? Frankly the whole argument smells of envy.

[Kinetic]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... entpage=27

I, for one, welcome our new korean overlords.

We knew it was coming. We've been preparing. Soon, the Saiyans will arrive...

[Kinetic]

Didn't MKP win the Super Tournament?

[Kinetic]

Who's Polt?

[Kinetic]

The latter

[Kinetic]

/facepalm

I'm not criticizing him, its a joke that no one knows who he is or rather, he doesn't get any recognition despite being as good as he is.

[Kinetic]

I agree that BW Pros are going to do well, however, because of the nature of SC2, I truly don't believe they will dominate the scene as is being predicted for three reasons.

First, SC2 is not a complete game. It won't be for at least 2-3 years, after plenty of patches. Hell, there are going to be two MAJOR shake ups with Heart and Legacy. I don't believe the change will be as big as the shift from SC1 to SC2, but it will likely be at least a year after Legacy is dropped before we have a solid, almost complete game. Remember, the first recognized "bonjwa" Boxer, didn't arrive until about 2001-2002, about 3 years after SC and BW had been first put on sale. The scene had plenty of time to develop before a clear "favorite" showed itself. I don't believe it will take that long for an SC2 bonjwa, but to expect one before Legacy is dropped would be rather premature. The two that are closest to that distinction right now MVP and Nestea still have plenty of holes in their game.

Second, the "limit" on "hard-skill" is lower in SC2, allowing more strategic play to surface. Because of this, players from BW who were so good

because

their hard skills were so far ahead of everyone else won't be as far ahead. That isn't to say those aspects aren't important, hell Fin(forGG) vs Sage shows that we still haven't quite met that limit yet. But everyone, from the top pros to the lowest Bronze player admits that SC2 is "easier" than SC1. Just change rally points in SC2 compared to SC1.

Third, SC2 requires slightly different skill sets and rewards different skills. If SC1 were 60% practiced skills and 40% strategy (numbers out my ass) than SC2 is more like 60% strategy and 40% practiced skill. Players who did well in SC1 will still do well in SC2, but there is room for new players who have talents more aligned to SC2 to rise up.

[Kinetic]

Remember, the first recognized "bonjwa" Boxer, didn't arrive until about 2001-2002, about 3 years after SC and BW had been first put on sale. The scene had plenty of time to develop before a clear "favorite" showed itself. I don't believe it will take that long for an SC2 bonjwa, but to expect one before Legacy is dropped would be rather premature.

1. BoxeR was not known as "bonjwa" during his reign. Bonjwa started and ended with MJY, and was retroactively applied to BoxeR, NaDa and oov. Even now, Flash is simply referred to as God Young Ho, and not bonjwa, although he displays a dominance that parallels theirs.
2. BW's pro-scene only started in late 99, and BoxeR was a force in early 2001, if you only look at OSL/MSL.
3. BW's pro-scene started from scratch. The SC2 pro-scene is somewhat of a carryover from BW in many ways, and has much of the infrastructure and overarching concepts (macro, multitasking) coming over pre-developed.

I agree with 1, I wasn't trying to say otherwise. Only that he was the first "recognized" one, even if done afterwards. As for 2, while true, the game was out and being played competitively before that. It did take a while to build it up, but nonetheless. As for 3, I was trying to account for that as well in my points, but things are fundamentally different between now and then. I would argue that because the scene started from scratch it allowed players to be more dominant than nowadays with a much more even playing ground among everyone. And I really think the expansions are going to throw quite a wrench into any stability of the scene until they are all out. Even after that, with Blizzard we will see a LOT of early patches, but I'm willing to bet patches (while they will still be released) will start to slow probably around a year or two after the release of Legacy. That is when things will really start, and by then there won't be a BW scene.

Second, the "limit" on "hard-skill" is lower in SC2, allowing more strategic play to surface. Because of this, players from BW who were so good because their hard skills were so far ahead of everyone else won't be as far ahead. That isn't to say those aspects aren't important, hell Fin(forGG) vs Sage shows that we still haven't quite met that limit yet. But everyone, from the top pros to the lowest Bronze player admits that SC2 is "easier" than SC1. Just change rally points in SC2 compared to SC1.

hird, SC2 requires slightly different skill sets and rewards different skills. If SC1 were 60% practiced skills and 40% strategy (numbers out my ass) than SC2 is more like 60% strategy and 40% practiced skill. Players who did well in SC1 will still do well in SC2, but there is room for new players who have talents more aligned to SC2 to rise up.

There will be cookie-cutter pros that do not hold up as well, as their mechanics will not overpower. But to think that most of the top tier pros are going to fail because it is 60/40 instead of 40/60 is foolish. The top players (basically Top 8-16 in MSL/OSL) execute on a strategic level far above the rest of the field, who rely solely on mechanics. If anything, this will only benefit these players. A player like Flash, or Bisu, or Jaedong, or even someone lesser-known like Calm or Mind, will prevail even moreso because they have to focus less time on honing absolute 100% perfect mechanics and can spend more time focusing on strategic improvements. But eventually - like BW - SC2 will hit a point of climax, where the metagame will no longer make great shifts and mechanics will carry you most of the way, with only minute on the fly decision making being a difference maker, and not overcoming sheer mechanical prowess.

I don't believe I ever said that the top tier pros were going to fail. I didn't say that at all, and I agree it would be a foolish position to hold. I believe what I said was they wouldn't dominate in the same way as they did in SC1. If I didn't say it like that, I apologize, but that is what I meant.

The argument I'm making is that Flash/Bisu/Jaedong are all amazing players, no doubt. I have nothing but respect. I just refuse to sign on to the belief that once they switch all future tournaments will be simply won by one of them (or Calm or Hydra or Fantasy, etc etc etc). I am sure they will win some tournaments, I just don't really expect their domination to be anywhere near as complete in SC2 as it was in BW. They are different games to the point where I fully expect that we will see "new players" come up who are more adept to the specifics of SC2. (I use "new players" to mean not necessarily players we've never heard of, but more specifically players that may not have been as good in SC1 or W3 or another game, but it could include players whose first game is SC2)

[Kinetic]

Terran is OP because they have the most options and their ability to tech switch efficiently. It is more expensive for Protoss or Zerg to tech switch (most difficult for Protoss I believe, as they sometimes need an entirely new line of buildings, while zerg generally just need a new building and their production is limited by the number of queens/hatcheries). When Zerg/Protoss get more options available, and they are easier to reach (either by simply more units, or better allocated units) a lot of "Terran is OP" will go away.

I don't believe there is anything that needs to change with Terran, and I don't really think anything needs to be "buffed" with Z or P, there just are fewer options at all levels for P and Z and that needs to be fixed.

[Kinetic]

I'd be bashing any team that did that, they left a set before it was finished letting down the casters, the sponsors, the organizers and the nine thousand people watching it live; nationality has nothing to do with it, don't try to portray anyone who objects to Milleniums actions as nationalist; they fucked up, hurt their already tarnished reputation and showed a lack of respect for IPL, Slayers and the viewers.

Now they deservedly get flak for it.

Tbm hit it on the head - any team would get shit on for something like this. Millennium only gets it worse because they have a track record of shit like this

This.

<3 Oto, but you have a blind spot here. It doesn't help that Mill was already under scrutiny because of their "questionable" conduct in the Stephano case.

Important to remember in all cases, while all (or most) of Mill is French, not all of people who are French act like Mill. We could debate whether it is more or less a culture issue, but that is beyond the scope here. I wouldn't want someone to say, "Well you're American, doesn't that mean you act like all the crazy Republican candidates?" so I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to someone from another culture.

That all being said, this gives myself, and anyone else, more reason to not like Mill.

[Kinetic]

You have no right to speak for SlayerS, they probably apologize to them. Even if not, you shouldn't speak for them.

For 1, I haven't heard from anyone claiming to speak for SlayerS, however, just because I'm not directly hurt, doesn't mean that I wasn't indirectly effected by it and doesn't mean that I can't say something.

Is it a reason to start insulting people and question their professionalism when eSports is clearly not completely professional ? Hell no.

I haven't heard anyone insulting someone else, but hell YES is it appropriate to question their professionalism. There is a LOT of professionalism in eSports. The fact that you ignore that doesn't mean that it is suddenly not so. Mill has continuously acted unprofessional, so yes I'm going to question their professionalism. The only "major" team so clearly unprofessional is Mill. Have you heard anything like this from EG, Liquid, Dignitas, Complexity, Quantic, Slayers, IM, MVP, FXO, Startale, Prime, TSL???? Yes there have been some issues, (EG vs TSL, sometimes InControl, etc) but people rightfully called them out, and since then it has become much more cordial and professional. The fact that people are calling Mill out is because right now they are a disgrace. After Stephano people have been trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, but this is another failure on their part. They need to STEP IT UP. I know I am, and others are, willing to give them more chances, but frankly they need to reach for it.

As for their track record, I won't come back to the previous discussions since you have obviously a way to consider business that is far from what I consider correct. Their flaming response to coL was certainly totally uncalled for and I am sure they regret it. coL did some mistakes too.

Mill's mistakes:
Intentionally obstructed a contract,
convinced a player to break a contract,
publicly attacked CoL personally and professionally,
flaunted their disrespect for law and professionalism.

CoL's mistakes:
Trusting Stephano (that he was negotiating with Mill, that he would in good faith execute his contract).

If there was more, please tell me, but if the answer is "They didn't follow this obscure French law" that isn't an answer.

[Kinetic]

I've written 4 or 5 big posts and deleted them again because nothing gets through to you on this blind spot Oto.

I'm not being arrogant. I'm not being unreasonable.

You take everything said against Mill personally. Stop that. Yes, some people are being idiots and making this a France vs the World thing, but those people are idiots. Pay them no mind.

Mill is being unprofessional, disrespectful, and acting entitled. That needs to be fixed. ASAP.

Maybe it is just a complete disregard and disrespect for the "international" market, and they're less so to people in France, but that is unacceptable and unprofessional. Period.

This is becoming a pattern and no one is willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. They need to build up some credibility and good will before they can expect to get that back, but this is not the way to do that.

[Kinetic]

I don't agree with the unprofessional aspect of things, that's a given. I don't want you to agree with me. But even if you disagree with me, I will never such treatment for the things I love.

Instead of saying : Hey those Millenium guys are not getting professional nearly as fast as they should (which is true to some extent and I value this slow and measured pace) and that's something they have to fix to gain more credibility, you are throwing stones. Instead of saying : Players should have been there to play, that kind of behavior isn't something I am expecting from people that consider themselves pro-gamers or think of being (only Stephano is on Millenium), you target an organisation as a whole. To some extent that's their fault too but Millenium is a semi-professional team not a completely professional one.

As much as I love the StarCraft II community, we spend more time destroy each other instead of helping each other and growing together.

PS : Oh and Nuwem, if you have a problem with me, you can send me a PM. Other than that, I consider I deserve respect as much as anyone here.

Instead of saying : Hey those Millenium guys are not getting professional nearly as fast as they should (which is true to some extent and I value this slow and measured pace) and that's something they have to fix to gain more credibility, you are

throwing stones

being realistic and not letting national pride get in the way of your opinions like I am. The fact that you are not taking this situation personally and are instead being rational about it is disrespectful to Milennium.

Summarized?

I don't know what you mean exactly. But I can try.

I understand your position on professionalism, I don't agree with it. Millenium should have played this game and not forfeited, they couldn't. I don't think it's unprofessional because StarCraft itself isn't there yet (that's my own conviction) and I wished criticism would have been expressed more precisely (player vs. team) and in a more positive way. And finally I hope you can understand my motives (emotional ties that are dating from before SC2 itself) and my reasons (cf. above)

This is where we disagree. I feel that SC2 is mostly professional with a few outliers. You take the other side.

Do fans always act professional? Of course not. But you would never see Tom Brady do what a Patriots fan might do. You shouldn't measure the professionalism of a sport by some of the community that follows it. That is bound to attract some of the more undesirable elements.

Additionally, I feel that Mill, the organization, IS at fault. That this is not an issue with specific players, although they are contributing, but that this is a systematic problem with the team. They are NOT taking any of this seriously, and neither are you. You still won't take it seriously. This entire issue may even be more systematic within the French gaming community, but I'm not willing to go that far just based on the actions of one team.

If you truly believe that SC2 doesn't have the level of professionalism than it should, you should be MORE abhorred at the people who constantly keep it down and act unprofessional. We don't get better if we continue to allow this to happen, we need to strive to be MORE professional, not less. If we want to reach a acceptable level of respectability than we need to police our own.

As someone who is French you should be embaressed by their lack of professionalism, not giving your consent. Your voice should be the loudest calling for change, not giving them excuses and passes. Your head should be bowed in shame over the fact they are representing the French gamer community in such a way. They are making YOU look bad, and you're giving them excuses. STOP THAT.

We don't give people like Deezer breaks for the same reason. If a player or a team constantly thumbs their nose at everyone else, we don't say "O, well they just had a bad week." No, we say "They're a rotten apple and they need to either be tossed out or they need to step up." Look at CombatEx. He is stepping up to be more professional. Yes, he still uses mind games, but now he is actually stopping the BS tactics (stream sniping, etc). God help me, but Mill needs to be more like CombatEx and less like Deezer.

[Kinetic]

Look at CombatEx. He is stepping up to be more professional.

Wow...

I know. I can barely believe it either, but he's working toward legitimacy. We'll see how it turns out.

[Kinetic]

So many great games, but Huk and Idra were disappointing . Damn Leenock just sniping so many people. MMA, Idra, Huk, Boxer, Haypro. And holy shit Haypro. Where did he come from. Almost knocked out both MVP and Nestea. Too bad he only took out Nestea. Only. wow.

[Kinetic]

I want Nani to win too. I mean, he's awkward, and sometimes a bit mean because of his frustration, but there are few people in the world who want it as much as he does. And he is never satisfied. He won MLG Dallas, then got second in TSL3 soon after, and he was truly frustrated with himself for losing TSL3.

[Kinetic]

The translator clarified that he didn't during the winner interview.

[Kinetic]

Correction:

Play Protoss -> Learn to 4 Gate
OR
Play Zerg -> Learn to 6 pool
OR
Play Terran -> Learn to 2 Rax

[Kinetic]

Honestly, that stat is really just a bit misleading.

I'm sure that after losing the first game, among

everyone

the win rate is probably something like

80%

. Is Idra's a bit higher? Maybe. But it isn't so far out of whack imho. I think people are taking way too much from it.

[Kinetic]

ok: https://twitter.com/#!/MillStephano/sta ... 3235945472

Doesn't completely turn my opinion around about him, but combined with a few other things its a very good start.

[Kinetic]

I agree with many of Agar's points.

[Kinetic]

Well, when you can't see the whole map, you go 0-8 in your games.

[Kinetic]

WHY ARE THEY TAKING OUT THE MOTHERSHIP

...because it blows and was good for nothing other than comedy value in HuK matches?

Its back in the current build actually, but radically changed. No more persistent cloak for instance.

[Kinetic]

Ok, MLG decided to not be retarded. Good for them!

Anyways, I really want Tarson to qualify for TSL4 so I can just shout TARSON HOLDS! every game he plays.

I'd also like to see the big guns of EG actually, y'know,

attempt

to qualify.

Thorzain is already qualified though. Although I'd love Huk and/or Idra to try, I don't think they would right now. (sadface)

[Kinetic]

I've been watching IPL stream on mute with DeMuslims stream in the background for alternative colour commentary with incontrol,demuslim and 2GD.

This.

Also, best headline: "Team IM beats Taeja 1-7"

[Kinetic]

Any of our NC brothers at Raleigh this year?

[Kinetic]

Group C holy shit.

[Kinetic]

I so badly want JD to just get rolled. Next GSL the Kespa players can do well, this GSL I want to see them shamed. I know its wrong, but dammit I want Kespa to run with its tail between its legs after the BS they tried to pull.

And before you say it, yes I know the players in Kespa are not to be blamed for the company itself being a dick, but all the same, my feelings aren't swayed by that argument right now.

[Kinetic]

And before you say it, yes I know the players in Kespa are not to be blamed for the company itself being a dick, but all the same, my feelings aren't swayed by that argument right now.

It's not an argument though it's literally the truth.

also how about destiny's dick.

Meh, at the same time you don't hear the Kespa players speaking out against it. They don't want to rock their boat, and sure, I understand that. But that doesn't make them completely blameless here.

And can we not talk about some guys dick? Seriously, take it to F62, this is a starcraft thread, not a dick thread.

[Kinetic]

Last game of Group C.

MC versus MKP.

My feelings are very conflicted right now as I want them both to win.

[Kinetic]

Well, I must have missed those articles then.

[Kinetic]

All my hate to Kespa, truthfully. I don't disagree there.

But I feel like if the Kespa players come and take over and become the best it will just lead to another Kespa controlled game where only Korea is allowed to spectate like SC1. As I see it, even though the Kespa players are nearly blameless in this whole thing, if they start and keep winning that possibility becomes more and more likely. So for the time being, I'm cheering for the non-Kespa players.

[Kinetic]

Hence, why I want Kespa to die in a fire.

With that being said, there is a new player in the game this time, Blizzard has a much bigger hand in the pot than in SC1. There are rumors that one of the reasons Kespa flinched was because of Blizzard behind the scenes. If Kespa takes over it'll send death knells into the international scene, which Blizzard will not tolerate I bet.

[Kinetic]

I still play, but I rarely play normal games. I love the Campaign, and I really like Custom games, but I rarely play anything else anymore. I do love the Pro Scene though and attend any events in Florida that I can.

[Kinetic]

To be fair, you really can't fault EG too much. They pick up players performing near the top of their field, some drop off might be expected. Yet, at the same time, EG makes its players celebrities more so than almost any team.

[Kinetic]

So, I just won a Beta HotS key from the Team Liquid contest .

[Kinetic]

Nice.

Also, I find it funny that near half of the Code A qualifying spots were KeSPA players. Enjoy it while it lasts, ESF teams.

I'm not as worried about that as you are. Yea, a decent amount got through qualifying, but that is a big difference from Code A or Code S.

[Kinetic]

I'm just saying, look at how quickly they've already swarmed that. It'll be a climb, but it's not going to be a long one, I don't think. We'll see how they fare in Code A, some of them are top-line players who should probably do fairly well (EffOrt, FlaSh, Jaedong should all make at least Up and Down matches).

But at the same time we've been seeing a lot of stagnation in Preliminaries and Code A. We still have Cella and TheWind nearly making it into Code A. The way I see it, I certainly expect Kespa players to break in, and maybe eventually make up 20-30% of all Code A/S caliber players within the next 2-3 months. But I don't see them breaking much further than that, or reaching the height of Code S, for a bit more time. Will they eventually completely overtake ESF? Maybe, that is yet to be seen, but I don't think anyone is going down without a fight. And I don't think the sky is falling quite as you're predicting it.

[Kinetic]

So, I just won a Beta HotS key from the Team Liquid contest .

I CAN HAZ?

Both of you fuck off . It is myyyyy preeccious.

[Kinetic]

Oh my fucking god.

Game 2, Nerchio versus Grubby.

Oh my fucking god.

[Kinetic]

So, I just won a Beta HotS key from the Team Liquid contest .

I CAN HAZ?

Both of you fuck off . It is myyyyy preeccious.

Fuck you!

If they have another contest like that, I'll help you guys make something. My winning submission btw.

[Kinetic]

My favourite game of WCS Europe so far.

Agreed.

[Kinetic]

I'm just saying, look at how quickly they've already swarmed that. It'll be a climb, but it's not going to be a long one, I don't think. We'll see how they fare in Code A, some of them are top-line players who should probably do fairly well (EffOrt, FlaSh, Jaedong should all make at least Up and Down matches).

But at the same time we've been seeing a lot of stagnation in Preliminaries and Code A. We still have Cella and TheWind nearly making it into Code A. The way I see it, I certainly expect Kespa players to break in, and maybe eventually make up 20-30% of all Code A/S caliber players within the next 2-3 months. But I don't see them breaking much further than that, or reaching the height of Code S, for a bit more time. Will they eventually completely overtake ESF? Maybe, that is yet to be seen, but I don't think anyone is going down without a fight. And I don't think the sky is falling quite as you're predicting it.

I'd be willing to bet cash that within 3 seasons, more than a third of Code S is players from KeSPA teams, and that they will take at least half of the top 16 slots in that season.

Oh for sure. they're work ethic is far superior to current GSL players.

Genius says that he plays at most 10 games a day to practice. And he wonders why he loses to Naniwa 2 seasons in a row.

I think that might be a little high, but then again it probably isn't too far off. We will see.

Additionally, Heart of the Swarm is going to shuffle things up too.

[Kinetic]

Aaaand now I'm in the DOTA2 Beta too. haha

[Kinetic]

^^^

sc2>dota 2> LoL.

Maybe. I'm closer to Sc2=DOTA2>LoL

[Kinetic]

Swarm Host (Z) - siege walker, half-burrows (still attackable without detection) then spawns waves of Locusts to attack (which're actually pretty okay for spawned units)

detection is needed to attack them.

This is confusing as they aren't that way in the campaign. There you don't need detection, but you do in multiplayer.