Mafia 158: Titanium. Game over

[McStab]

PMysterious, who do you think is scummy right now?

[PMysterious]

McStab and I recently had an interesting game.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=23126

That is the one which I screwed us over in Lylo, wasn't it?

[PMysterious]

PMysterious, who do you think is scummy right now?

Um, I'm getting to that. Keep your pants on.

[evilpacman18]

I skimmed a lot of your previous games from the past year, none of them had you as scum. So that doesn't help me much. Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough. I do however enjoy your style as town. Very short and concise, I hate wall o' texts. So if you're one of the good guys I'm pretty happy.

But seriously, the only two answers you could possibly get from asking "Are you scum" are the obvious "No" or a sarcastic "totally". You gain nothing from such a question.

Actually it's got some legitimacy to it. The point of the question isn't necessarily what people say in response it's how they say it. If someone answers it nervously or takes it too seriously, they're more likely to be scum, if someone treats it jokingly or sarcastically, they're more likely to be town. Punctuation, the length of the answer, whether or not they even respond to it, everything is an indicator of a certain mindset. It's nothing to base a read on, but it counts as something. I got town vibes from McStab's answer this time.

PM's alignment will reveal itself in time. No point in this now.

[evilpacman18]

Although I'm very much looking forward to him "getting to that."

[Jun]

HA

To elaborate. PMysterious responds terribly to pressure and reveals his role quickly. For example, in that game Evilpacman just described, I figured out PM was a PR based on his very first post. In other games, such as Mini 1361, I've found one of his scumpartners and him being scum based on his actions. Therefore, pressuring PM pays dividends. It is not an RVS.

RVS does help though. To point to specific results would be hard, because you could argue about exactly what constitutes RVS and how much it's impact is on the game. However, virtually anygame that uses it and then properly catch scum can be traced back to RVS at some point.

Although your pointed question-asking works, but I find it still results in the same end. Newbies trip up in either RVS or asking questions, and pressure is applied to determine if they are scum. Then, based off flips, PR results and associative links, more experienced scum are found.

Seriously, pile some votes on PM. I want him pressured; if he starts to fall apart, he's scum.

McStab, are you pressuring PMysterious to see if they are a PR role because they easily reveal their role? I can only sense scum motivations behind wanting to reveal roles so soon. Not sure if you have scumknowledge and are looking to gain towncred if PMysterious flips scum. IGMEOY.


VOTE: maenara
I'm hungry and this name sounds like marinara sauce.


Now for a clarification question:
-Do we know anything about the roles in this setup except that they are balanced by the Normal Game Review Group? Should I expect something similar to a C9++ setup in which roles are determined based on a formula and thus the role list can be guessed at due to flips?

[evilpacman18]

^ scum #1.

[theomoaner]

Its pretty normal for me to be voted in RVs. Guess what?

I'm hunting scum. RVs are not my style this time.

How are you managing to hunt scum in post 3 with only two playes posted?

VOTE: PMyst

[McStab]

@Jun: No, I think it would've been clear to me at this point if he was a PR.

You misunderstand my purpose, or perhaps I misconveyed it. By pressuring PM, one can find out if he's scum; he may out himself as VT, but regardless, we can confirm his alignment by applying pressure.

[mykonian]

votecount

PMysterious (3): mcstab, eleison, theomoaner
Eleison (1): maenara
maenara (1): jun

not voting (11): Hiraki, evilpacman, harpocrates, thermal, NJAC, shinori, pirate mollie, pmysterious, telo, dividizzle, smashbard

[evilpacman18]

@Jun: No, I think it would've been clear to me at this point if he was a PR.

You misunderstand my purpose, or perhaps I misconveyed it. By pressuring PM, one can find out if he's scum; he may out himself as VT, but regardless, we can confirm his alignment by applying pressure.

You were perfectly clear. He's forcing maligned intent into your posts.

[evilpacman18]

And that's not even the only thing that's terribly wrong with that post.

[Shinori]

HNNNNNG.

##Vote: McStab

I don't like you. So far you also seem scummy.

[McStab]

Great logic. Please, show me where I appear scummy.

[Smashbard]

Actually it's got some legitimacy to it. The point of the question isn't necessarily what people say in response it's how they say it. If someone answers it nervously or takes it too seriously, they're more likely to be scum, if someone treats it jokingly or sarcastically, they're more likely to be town. Punctuation, the length of the answer, whether or not they even respond to it, everything is an indicator of a certain mindset. It's nothing to base a read on, but it counts as something. I got town vibes from McStab's answer this time.

PM's alignment will reveal itself in time. No point in this now.

This is a very helpful piece of information for analyzing early reads, brings a new perspective to things.

McStab, are you pressuring PMysterious to see if they are a PR role because they easily reveal their role? I can only sense scum motivations behind wanting to reveal roles so soon. Not sure if you have scumknowledge and are looking to gain towncred if PMysterious flips scum. IGMEOY.


Considering he just explained the reasons behind his desired wagon, I find this post very scummy. I got scumvibes from the initial McStab vote, but after his explanation I see why it could be useful. Also, did you really just say that you can see nothing but scum motivations from his actions, and then proceed to make an RVS vote totally unrelated to your actual suspicions?

HA

To elaborate. PMysterious responds terribly to pressure and reveals his role quickly. For example, in that game Evilpacman just described, I figured out PM was a PR based on his very first post. In other games, such as Mini 1361, I've found one of his scumpartners and him being scum based on his actions. Therefore, pressuring PM pays dividends. It is not an RVS.

RVS does help though. To point to specific results would be hard, because you could argue about exactly what constitutes RVS and how much it's impact is on the game. However, virtually anygame that uses it and then properly catch scum can be traced back to RVS at some point.

Although your pointed question-asking works, but I find it still results in the same end. Newbies trip up in either RVS or asking questions, and pressure is applied to determine if they are scum. Then, based off flips, PR results and associative links, more experienced scum are found.

Seriously, pile some votes on PM. I want him pressured; if he starts to fall apart, he's scum.

I like your explanations. I still think it's rather pointless to do a pressure wagon when it's blatantly obvious that the wagon isn't serious. But I'll bite for now. If only because I'm getting town vibes from McStab & Pacman.

Vote: PMysterious

[dividizzle]

hey guys, sorry I'm a little bit late to the party. I hope everyone is doing well, I haven't played in quite a while and I forgot how intriguing this first round of suspicion is. My personal view on this first phase is that the most important part is to get everyone to come in, say hi and start talking. So here we go.

Vote: Telo

[Hiraki]

Both seem to be playing differently from their extant newbie games as scum.

you know this

after like 1-2 posts?

Come on EPM.

Work it.

Weird that you ask McStab specifically, why?

There is a lot you can tell from these kinds of response. How the correct response works will remain secret until he posts, but these can work and they can fail. They're not trustable for a lynch but definitely for pressure.

EPM is probably doing it for jokes/reaction testing everyone else(aka you)

I'll give out my scumreads on Page 6 afterward

Yknow

I know you've gotten a decently bad reputation--but I don't care about reputations until I play with the said person.

But please.

Never ever plan out something like that.

Therefore, pressuring PM pays dividends. It is not an RVS.

Right...

I want him pressured; if he starts to fall apart, he's scum.

your plan is so brilliant that it can't possibly have any flaws

it even sounds too good to be true

like

it's coming from scum

if anyone needs pressure

it's mcstab fyi

I got town vibes from McStab's answer this time.

Okay, but actually you can't use those tells now.

Why?

Well, this snippet.

But seriously, the only two answers you could possibly get from asking "Are you scum" are the obvious "No" or a sarcastic "totally". You gain nothing from such a question.

That basically gave McStab a free ticket out to be sarcastic.

I'm not saying that if McStab didn't have that post he would've been super serious or sarcastic--but you can't really apply it if nothing happened.

Anyway, your tells are wrong as well. It varies from person to person and the two spectrums are answering the question and not answering the question rather than how the person answers the question. If the person gives a straightforward answer (ala yes, no, simple one word stuff) then the person has a

very

slight townread. If the person dodges the question by trying to make a sarcastic answer (Well, I can't tell you that.) or completely ignores it, then the person has a slight(though greater than the town read) slant toward scum.

Also, reminding the person about the question invalidates most of this stuff as well. This is a tad bit overkill for something very minor in the end.

^ scum #1.

He actually had a decent point, thanks.

And while I won't validate it as a point (lol hiraki is trying to front on me when he won't even approve of the point), he's more town than scum for saying that.

How are you managing to hunt scum in post 3 with only two playes posted?

Now

this

is juicy stuff for page two.

Let's go over the facts, theomoaner.

It's Page 1. You're correct. There's very little evidence to go off on, so how is this possible? Is it possible?

Could he perhaps be *GASP*

LYING?!?!?!

or perhaps *GASP*

TRYING?!?!?!

Either point doesn't matter because you

clearly

identified that both points aren't possible. So...he's scum because he's made an impossible threat?

oh....right...

we thought this one out.

In addition,

I plan on bringing up conversation by thinking about someone over 5 pages and I'll give out my scum reads on Page 6 afterward.

Which means "I'm going to say I'm scumhunting, but I really can't but I promise I'll have reads by Page 6"

Note: PMysterious will not have reads by Page 6.

You were perfectly clear. He's forcing maligned intent into your posts.

Yes, my buddy from last game, you were perfectly clear! Flawless! It'd be impossible that someone would have a different view than us!

Seriously. What the fuck. Stop this pretty obvious buddying to McStab being a god.

I still think it's rather pointless to do a pressure wagon when it's blatantly obvious that the wagon isn't serious. But I'll bite for now.

Why do I smell compromise on Page 1?

[Hiraki]

EWBOP:

Vote: Theomoaner

I know I said I wanted to pressure McStab but Theomoaner is worse.

Consider it an FoS for the moment--but it gets lower every time I think about it, to note.

[McStab]

Why exactly do you want pressure on me? Because I want to pressure PM?

You overestimate him if you think this plan doesn't work. I can cite specific meta examples if you so desire. Otherwise, stop trying to takeover leadership of the town with your needless banter and rhetoric, and start properly scumhunting.

[evilpacman18]

McStab could very well be scum. I'm not buddying at all. I didn't read him well at all last game but that was heavily based on circumstance, rather than his posting reading like scum to me.
Don't think that I'm setting up my reads for the rest of the game already. I guarantee you they'll change as the game goes, I just tend to sound pretty sure of things early on. My reads on Maenara and Smashbard are based on differences in their RVS votes as scum and their RVS votes now. It's not much to go on, but I'll add to them and they'll probably be drastically different by the end of the day. Haven't we played together before?
You're probably right about McStab's answer to my question being made irrelevant.

Jun's post is bad because it goes like this
>FOS on someone he thinks is scummy
>makes contrived RVS vote after just saying someone is actually scummy
>lulzy ignorant setup speculation on a closed normal. (I mean he knows what a C9++ is but doesn't know how a closed normal works? That's kinda bull don't you think? I don't even know what a C9++ is.)

Can we please not have McStab vs. Hiraki?

[Hiraki]

with your needless banter and rhetoric, and start properly scumhunting.

ok

[NJAC]

@McStab - So the wagon on PMy is to make him somehow claim, right? Is there any other motivation under it? Do you actually think he's scummy?

McStab... IGMEOY.

VOTE: maenara

So, you did it again, you think someone is scummy but you vote another person, why is that?

[NJAC]

@EPM - Jun is an actual newb so his (her?) question about the setup is honest imo, In fact I've only played two newbie games and I do have some questions about this setup too.

[evilpacman18]

So, you did it again, you think someone is scummy but you vote another person, why is that?

Is this something he does frequently?

Closed normal - the wiki has a list of roles considered normal. Any of them can appear with any applicable normal modifier. Setups are created by the mod, and approved for normalcy and usually balance by a small group of reviewers. There's no way to predict what might be in the game and trying to outguess the mod is generally a bad idea....

[NJAC]

He (she?) did that in the early game in our last game: newbie 1269.