A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!


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Post Post #2350 (ISO) » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:04 am

Post by 4nxi3ty »

In post 2331, Jal wrote:
I explained in my responses to Kortul. He didn't drop off my radar.

In post 2144, Jal wrote:
I would ask why he chose Sapo regardless of anything if he were a regular vig. I already answered this in my response to Edd though. I am not necessarily questioning his choice of person. I believed Sapo was scum. I'm trying to get at why he isn't choosing to hurt/lynch/really go after me while saying I'm scum.

In regards to your question concerning mafia not knowing each other in other games - I don't know. A lot of things seem to hint towards it though. Sapo at the very least had insider information on another role.

This happened after sapo's flip, I believe the post I linked was on D1 and the last post where you mentioned him before the flip. All through out D2 and even during the trial by combat you didn't talk about or interact with sapo. If you thought he was scum why did you choose to focus on others?

In post 2345, Plums Yo Mamma wrote:jal is town

explain?

Can someone give me a quick summary on why Nacho and Plum were godhanded?

vote: Jal
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Post Post #2351 (ISO) » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:40 am

Post by Lyanna Stark »

Most of us made a list of our preferences, and some based it on good players unlikely to be lynched or night killed whose alignment we'd like confirmed either way. Plum mamma was on the majority of people's lists. Moi and I think kortul were keeping track of who wanted who godhanded if you're interested in peoples choices.
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Post Post #2352 (ISO) » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:53 am

Post by Shinori »

In response to most of these questions I played terribly. I didn't full claim because it didn't occur to me to do it at the time when i had claimed. The rules I was talking about that are referring to an ongoing game so I can't talk about it. Mixed with how I saw staeg acting and posting along with his investigation report and me not thinking properly I jumped to conclusions and did something that I cguess could be seen as a gambit. It was a terrible play but I sincerely though that Staeg was scum.

And no I did not target minimum last night. Why do you think I targeted minimum? Either way I've just playing overall bad across my mafia games as of late and this sucks >.< agbvhdfb gvsrdgbsrjvdfc
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Post Post #2353 (ISO) » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:41 am

Post by Eddard Stark »

House Plumm is a noble house of the Westerlands. Neither their arms or their motto appear in the books. According to semi-canon sources, they blazon their arms as three purple rondels on gold. Their words are "Come Try Me".

Day 4, Votecount 5

4nx3ty (2) - Minimum, Regfan

Benmage (1) Lyanna Stark
Jal (2) - BBmolla, 4nxi3ty

BBmolla (1) - Benmage
Scumhunter (2) - Magua, Feysal

Magua (1) - Scumhunter
Minimum (1) - Zdenek
Feysal (1) - Plums Yo Mamma

Not Voting (6):
Tyene Sand, kortul, Shinori, Mastermind of Sin, Pandora, Jal

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline
: 6th October at 19:30am Ireland time. (GMT+1)
Countdown to deadline
: (expired on 2012-10-06 14:30:47)
War has arrived!

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Post Post #2354 (ISO) » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:49 am

Post by kortul »

Shinori answers are enough for me, i am more certain now in my town read on him.

Overall, this game is frustrating. I don't have strong scum reads anymore, and only few strong town reads. Guess that's specifics of multiball, because scum have to search for rivals so look more townish, and town try to blend more than usual to avoid multiple night kills. I didn't reveal my reads since the day 1 to get nonbiased answers to my questions and to see who would be inclined to paint me as scummy or call town, and how sincere would be those pictures. But i feel uncomfortable being closed for so long, so will go over my reads, add comments and post them tomorrow.

@Jal
, what prompted you to think that Shinori checked Minimum last night?

@4nx
- the answer to godhand is basicly what Lyanna said. And i think Jal was referring to post 1848, not 2144. And what is your approach to reading the game atm?

On day 3 i did a quick look at finished games of Scumhunter - he can actually scumhunt if he wants to, and i was willing to wait to find out whether he will make some efforts in this game as well without being asked. Yesterday i thought it happened, but a day passed and catching up is still a promise. Since Starbuck is also the best fit as possible member of at least one faction (Aegon), my vote goes here.

VOTE: Scumhunter
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Post Post #2355 (ISO) » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:37 am

Post by Eddard Stark »

Prodding Pandora
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Post Post #2356 (ISO) » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:10 pm

Post by Pandora »

This is irritating. Everytime I go to make a MJaye case I get seriously distracted. Which usually means I don't actually think they're that bad and should look at something else. Oh well.

Shinori, did you at all take into account the fact that Staeg was claiming to be a cop that would find you into your decision?

<_< I'm right here reading leave me alone.
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Post Post #2357 (ISO) » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:22 pm

Post by Lyanna Stark »

Eh...pandora you can join me in trying to figure out what's so bad about mjaye. Not perfect, but not screaming scum at me either.

Also with shinori, it's frustratings, and I wish he'd stop saying he's playing bad, because every time he does it reminds me of leprechaun where he claimed he was just bad and was scum, but none of the rest of his demeanor is anything like how I've seen him as scum before. His jumping of conclusions with his role reminds me of kingdom hearts when platinum shadow tried to use a role on me night be and was unable to, misunderstood that, thought her role was investigative in nature and jumped to the wild conclusion I was scum because of it. In short, it's irritating, and we on the outside can go " um why...he could have investigated and confirmed you thereby clearing itself in the process" but jumping to conclusions is jumping to conclusions. I've seen shinori claim a different role than he had as scum (he claimed watcher when he was rolecop, so it makes sense he would jump to scum!investigator) but...damn I forgot what I was going to say...got interrupted. Mostly I don't think shinori is scum, but of he is will make it pretty clear from his interactns.

Okay going to drik, now, will pay proper attention to this game tomorrow.
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Post Post #2358 (ISO) » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:48 pm

Post by Pandora »

Well, the original 'townie reason' people laid off of Shinori was because he was inviting a bad hydra partner. Note that this uh.. never happened. I'm pretty sure he never asked for approval or made a hydra account for it at this point. But every step of the way his mistakes scream more of incompetene then scumminess.

Wwith MJaye it's more like.. well it's the same problem I have with Feysal actually. I can't remember anything they do, they're just THERE. Feysal is much more distracting to me because his last post is another fucking blurb on Starbuck/Scumhunter. How do you go four days without ever changing your suspect?! (Also Scumhunter strikes me as a townie fish in high waters so there's that too.)
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Post Post #2359 (ISO) » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:00 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Kinda swamped with personal stuff right now...going to try and find time to do analysis over the weekend.
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Post Post #2360 (ISO) » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:59 pm

Post by Regfan »

This game needs a serious burst of activity from a lot of people.
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Post Post #2361 (ISO) » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:56 pm

Post by kortul »

While i am doing some ISOs to try and get a better understanding on my null reads, i want to tell my thoughts on Shinori to Lyanna, pandora, or anyone else who can't read him.

I think that Shinori is town not because of him becoming a hydra for some time, but because of his claim. He told the nature of Staeg role before Staeg himself revealed it, which means that this part of his claim is true. Let's look at it from a motivation angle. If Shinori is scum, what is his motivation to reveal his own role so early? His faction gains nothing from this, he himself would hardly get town cred if Staeg would claim/flip more powerful town investigative role (quite the opposite), and he paints a big target on himself, since rival faction should realize that he can stumble on their members any night, and preemptively kill him at night not really caring about his alignment. Without the claim he could tell the results to his faction, for a better night kills or lynches (if he finds a rival who is an easy lynch target, to get a town cred from a lynch while hurting another faction).

At the same time after gathering all his answers together, i can see him doing what he did (even if i think this was incompetent) as a town. If i am wrong, and this is some strange scum gambit anyway, we will learn this soon enough - i don't believe that he will be allowed to live for a long time.
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Post Post #2362 (ISO) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:20 am

Post by 4nxi3ty »

ty tammy
the answer to godhand is basicly what Lyanna said. And i think Jal was referring to post 1848, not 2144. And what is your approach to reading the game atm?

flips/major events or whatever happens to catch my attention, then I usually fill in the gaps with ISOs and further context reading if I need to. tbh I much rather get reads by playing than reading.

post 1848 does kinda answer my question. I still think Jal's lack of follow up on sapo because other people had a townread is a bit scummy, especially when it came to the trial by combat.

I agree with your logic on shinori, I don't think he is comfortable enough with his scum game to pull any claiming gambits.
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Post Post #2363 (ISO) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:38 am

Post by Magua »

Regfan wrote:Looking forward to Shinoris explanation behind his thought process the past two days and what input his hydra partner had in it.


Wait, what? Shinori's a hydra?

Mmmm, I see, aborted attempt. Mmmmmm.

Regfan wrote:Magua, have you gone back and read through all of D1 now?


No, but I'll read through for mockingjaye's connections tomorrow.

Explain Pandora being obvtown, please.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:This confuses me, since the most prominent read I have that is still alive is on Minimum, who I think is town. I'd think that would be fairly obvious from even a cursory read through my ISO.

I also think Tierce is probably town (don't think scum would have questioned the mason kills so strongly...just reads weird from anything but a town perspective), but that read was probably less obvious.

So...which reads exactly do you think we agree on?


Rereading your ISO, I've found that what I really agree with are your reads on players, but your stances on things, mechanics or setup-wise. That is, your read of the mason deaths in /, your response to bvoigt in , your godhand list, etc.

Your town-read on BBmolla being an exception, a read on a player that I do agree with. Yes, I had completely skipped that you had a townread on Minimum.

So,
@Mastermind of Sin:
Why do you have a townread on Minimum?

Overall impression is still highly blah. You're quick to jump on bvoigt and saporerint, so -Aegon points, but everything else is just so null.

@Benmage:
Still would like to know why Starbuck was obvtown to you. If it's for the self-choose, not buying that.
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Post Post #2364 (ISO) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:28 am

Post by Benmage »

In post 2363, Magua wrote:
@Benmage:
Still would like to know why Starbuck was obvtown to you. If it's for the self-choose, not buying that.

Well start buying it? :?

It isn't that He self-chose like MoI and I did... He did so in a defeatist manner, and early claimed vt.
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Post Post #2365 (ISO) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:19 am

Post by Jal »

@Lyanna, for once in this game, I'd like to see you actually respond to a post without a bunch of meaningless junk at the beginning.

You were one of two people I asked a question to or made a comment about not including MoI. Yours was short and sweet and wasn't hostile at all. Again, you are being overly defensive and I can't for the world figure out why. Pointing out something and asking a question is not being aggressive. I clearly said I was looking towards Minimum. So why do you think you're so special today instead?

In post 2335, Lyanna Stark wrote:I clearly said to SnowStorm that I wasn't questioning him only about that, especially considering it's something that I do from time to time. My picking up on that with SnowStorm was in addition to other things I found suspicious about him, which I told him about in that post, and my entire conversation with him was designed to get a read on him.


This is an overdrawn explanation for a simple observation I made.

I do not care that you questioned him about other things. It's not even relevant to this conversation. I'm pointing out how you're essentially doing the same thing you pointed out Snow of being scummy for. Can I believe that your post 333 was trying to scope out a reaction from Snow? Definitely. But you did pick up on it and I do think you were pointing it out as scummy - you also made a distinction between him doing it and
you
doing it.

In post 2335, Lyanna Stark wrote:And since you wanted to know what I got out of questioning Benmage, I'd like for you to tell me what do you think you'd get out of questioning me about this and scolding me for my bad memory? Am I scum for forgetting to remove a vote I made clear was only a reaction vote in the first place? Why are you concerned about what I got out of my interaction with Benmage?

To get a reaction out of you, of course.

Are you going to answer my question about Benmage properly now without the fluff? Did it help or what?
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Post Post #2366 (ISO) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:19 am

Post by Jal »

In post 2347, Minimum wrote:
In post 2331, Jal wrote:What do you consider of her writing to be a deliberate narrow focus? I'm not seeing it, even if you include MockingJaye's posts.

Um, I'm just talking about mockinjaye and she admitted to having a narrow focus at least twice? The question is purely one of interpreting it correctly (i.e. realizing that this is totes a scum tell for relatively inexperienced scum in a multiball scenario.)

In post 2331, Jal wrote:Feysal hasn't done much of anything beyond the first half of D1. He isn't obviously townie or scummy. Scum have also obviously been shooting for either PRs or major town reads. How do you think his alignment will become obvious overtime as the town whittles down leaving the scummy towns/nulls behind? At least enough that he is definitely worth keeping?

It's happened every time I've played with him previously? And he'll probably do his best to scumhunt the opposing faction if he's scum so keeping him alive wouldn't be that in that case.


Um, replying in questions to make the answers seems obvious, lyke, totally doesn't make you seem any better. I don't care what MockingJaye said personally. Where and how do you see her having a deliberate narrow focus?

What has happened every time you've played with Feysal previously? His alignment becoming obvious? Be specific. I do not look up everyone's past and present games, nor should you expect
anyone
else to in this particular regard. I don't know or really care all that much about your history. Don't make it like it should be obvious. Other than not saying much of anything except a lot of words, Feysal has been taking a narrow focus on the Starbuck/Scumhunter slot. You think the slot is town. Do you see him branching out later on in this game if Scumhunter is still around?
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Post Post #2367 (ISO) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:25 am

Post by Jal »

In post 2333, Zdenek wrote:Vote: minimum


Why the vote for Minimum?

In post 2352, Shinori wrote:And no I did not target minimum last night. Why do you think I targeted minimum?


I was mistakenly thinking of Staeg's claimed target there, and how you would need to re-investigate last night. I may have missed it though - who did you investigate?

In post 2350, 4nxi3ty wrote: All through out D2 and even during the trial by combat you didn't talk about or interact with sapo. If you thought he was scum why did you choose to focus on others?


I don't really remember why I didn't talk to/about him D2 much.

Probably because I was focusing more so on Stannis scum. Given Shadow's report on Bvoigt and Sapo's push on StefanB D1, I didn't think DCL and Sapo were from the same scum team. I was working with the flip we were given at the time and he didn't say much worth saying about D2 until the pm slip. I didn't really think that itself was scummy enough to wholly incriminate him, but I still thought he was scummy anyway.

In post 2362, 4nxi3ty wrote:I still think Jal's lack of follow up on sapo because other people had a townread is a bit scummy, especially when it came to the trial by combat.

Explain this.

@4nxi3ty, why do you think it would be okay to kill a claimed PR over a scum read? I don't *think* it prevents the player being killed overnight by scum anyway.
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Post Post #2368 (ISO) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:34 am

Post by Shinori »

MY report last night was on Tierce, who did nothing.
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Post Post #2369 (ISO) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:57 am

Post by Jal »

Okay. For the record, I don't think Shinori is scum. I just can't find the scum motivation in claiming D2 like that. I can see it maybe before Shadow came out with his results if he was worried about being suspicious, but not afterwards.
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Post Post #2370 (ISO) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:19 am

Post by Lyanna Stark »

In post 2365, Jal wrote:@Lyanna, for once in this game, I'd like to see you actually respond to a post without a bunch of meaningless junk at the beginning.

You were one of two people I asked a question to or made a comment about not including MoI. Yours was short and sweet and wasn't hostile at all. Again, you are being overly defensive and I can't for the world figure out why. Pointing out something and asking a question is not being aggressive. I clearly said I was looking towards Minimum. So why do you think you're so special today instead?


I'm special every day. I have no idea what you are talking about. If you are referring to me saying that about Edd, your question/statement to me was silly and complete fluff. As I pointed out to you the answer to the question was in my responses if you had read. You argued with Edd for the old gods know what yesterday, and since you were also acting strangely aggressive with me yesterday and asked me a question to look busy today I can see where your lazer focus will probably go and will do what I can to head it off. It's not something I will put up with or continue with you when it does nothing whatsoever to forward the game and is nothing but a distraction.

And touche, for once, I'd like to see you not reacting to stuff just to look busy, argue with someone unnecessarily, or explain why you're not scum. Also, you might note, I didn't call you hostile. I said that you were being unnecessarily aggressive and melodramatic and were painting something as other than what it obviously was. You might want to look those words up in a dictionary.

I get it, you want to be a badass...you want to show your aggressive and you don't care about your image. Maybe you think that it will make you look innocent. Maybe you think that's how you're supposed to act, but it's coming off quite unnaturally. What it's resulting in is you just looking busy. And, noted, your condescension is soooo cute. :roll:

I'm not being over-defensive at all. I don't have to be. I see you being busy for the sake of being busy. Now maybe you don't know what you should comment on or how, and I'm making allowances for that, so it might not be alignment indicative, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to point it out.

And note, you didn't merely point out something and ask a question. You mischaracterized something went "Oh punch in the gut blah blah blah...I don't like it. Pointless Question". The point of it is that if you would have actually read what I wrote, there would be absolutely no reason for you to ask me the question you did or go melodramatic about it. The fact that you don't even recognize that is pretty worrisome.

Jal wrote:
In post 2335, Lyanna Stark wrote:I clearly said to SnowStorm that I wasn't questioning him only about that, especially considering it's something that I do from time to time. My picking up on that with SnowStorm was in addition to other things I found suspicious about him, which I told him about in that post, and my entire conversation with him was designed to get a read on him.


This is an overdrawn explanation for a simple observation I made.

I do not care that you questioned him about other things. It's not even relevant to this conversation. I'm pointing out how you're essentially doing the same thing you pointed out Snow of being scummy for. Can I believe that your post 333 was trying to scope out a reaction from Snow? Definitely. But you did pick up on it and I do think you were pointing it out as scummy - you also made a distinction between him doing it and
you
doing it.


Good we're on the same page then. I couldn't care less that you "DON'T LIKE" that I forgot to remove a vote I MADE CLEAR WAS A REACTION VOTE IN THE FIRST PLACE THAT I WAS GOING TO REMOVE. I cleared up for you the error of your ways in comparing that to what I said to Snowstorm. But, if you had bothered to read and process what I wrote, you would not have made the error in the first place. You really are cute, but you are either misreading or mischaracterizing two issues. Whether you are doing it deliberately or just are unable to understand the distinction, I'm not sure.

But, LOFL, did you actually just state that my actual words to Snowstorm were not relevant to this conversation. Wait. I'm um...okay. You do remember that you were the one who compared what I did to what I said to Snowstorm. You are, right? I mean I'm not reading the wrong thread am I? I want you to think on that one. You do know what context is right? You do know what the actual words stated versus your misconstrued image is right? Yes, you're right I did compare what he did to what I do...and your point is what exactly?

Okay so, now that you've refreshed your memory on what SnowStorm did and what I said to him, why don't you read the context around me voting for Benmage and tell me what is the punch-in-the-gut reminder of the SnowStorm issue and you don't like it :frown I'm a badass:. Because if you can't see the difference, and if you can't see why I think you're just commenting on it to distort and look busy, then I don't know what to tell you.

Did you miss the part where I said it was a reaction vote that I would remove when I got home? Please say yes. Because it would make so much more sense if you just admitted you didn't read.

You did not make a simple observation. A simple observation would look like this..."Hey Lyanna, I saw that you voted for Benmage for a reaction, you said you'd remove it but haven't and posted since. What's up with that?" To which, I would have simply removed it after saying that I forgot.

You did not do that. Re-read what I wrote to Benmage, then read your "simple observation" and really stand by what you're saying here.

Jal wrote:
In post 2335, Lyanna Stark wrote:And since you wanted to know what I got out of questioning Benmage, I'd like for you to tell me what do you think you'd get out of questioning me about this and scolding me for my bad memory? Am I scum for forgetting to remove a vote I made clear was only a reaction vote in the first place? Why are you concerned about what I got out of my interaction with Benmage?

To get a reaction out of you, of course.

Are you going to answer my question about Benmage properly now without the fluff? Did it help or what?


So, you mischaracterized an action by comparing it to something it wasn't like and asked a pointless question that would have been answered if you had actually read what I wrote to get a reaction out of me. That's...really stupid.

Since you're apparently reading-challenged, I'll post what I ALREADY posted:

Lyanna wrote:Since I obviously put him in my list of feeling relatively good about AFTER our conversation, my questioning helped my relatively good feelings.


And note: I'm not debating this anymore unless you actually read and process what I wrote. I will not get into some argument with you so you can spout inanities at me like you did Edd yesterday. That is nothing but a distraction that does nothing but help scum. I want to see you actually scum hunting today, and not just trying to look busy by arguing with people you will make no headway with. I don't buy into the "no scum would behave that way" nonsense that some others do. I've seen scum employ your very tactic in hopes of not looking like scum.
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Post Post #2371 (ISO) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:52 am

Post by Eddard Stark »

BBmolla and Scumhunter are being prodded
War has arrived!

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Post Post #2372 (ISO) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:29 am

Post by Tyene Sand »

I'll never catch up at this rhythm--I'll just wing it and refer back to previous posts on the go. Let's see how badly
that
goes.

I'm not asking for someone to sum up the game for me, but in case someone has already done so, please link me to it?


Shinori is correct that I didn't do anything Night Three. In addition, I think he's town.

Things I specifically want to read when I get a little time are the reasons for the current votes. Baby steps. And I completely need to sort my townreads in Not Stannis and Not Aegon format.

Don't give BB an Aegon-pass for his role PM claim. Yes, BB doesn't like playing scum, but that would totally be the reckless move he would do as part of that faction.

I want to reread Saporerint for that Informed thing.

Zdenek continues to amuse, yet concerns me on a lyncher level at this stage. Why would I defend Salamence, who is a 'dead weight' level of player, and then turn around and bus the slot when was replaced by a more competent pair of players who were doing a good job of looking town? Yes, Iece slipped, but take off your tunnel goggles--I was the first one pushing that slip.

Magua: it's a huge game (still), I was busy in the last two weeks. Yes, I'm going to be somewhat disengaged because I
haven't been here
. But painting me as such throughout the whole game is not only a misrepresentation, it's also stupid burden of proficiency. I don't particularly care what expectations you have of me or Minimum.
Going on vacation this summer? Choose Sand! Choose beautiful women! Choose questionable rebellion! Choose Areo Hotah's boring POVs! Choose Darkstar! Choose Alleras the Sphynx! Choose Vengeance. Justice. Fire and Blood. (That will fail.)
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Lyanna Stark
Lyanna Stark
Goon
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Lyanna Stark
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Post Post #2373 (ISO) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:47 am

Post by Lyanna Stark »

Oh yeah, meant to do this earlier and forgot again.

unvote
Winter is Coming

Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man's nature
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Magua
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Post Post #2374 (ISO) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:49 am

Post by Magua »

Burden of proficiency is exactly what it is that I'm doing with you and Minimum. However, it's far from stupid. Especially since I know you're as big a believer in meta as I am.

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