Mafia 158: Titanium. Game over

[qwints]

Hiraki, you've only voted Shinori and Eleison today? Who else do you think is scummy?

[Shinori]

##Vote: Maenara.

My thoughts.

And yeah My main scum read is a supposed mason, However I still feel people on my wagon are the scum. Because easy misslynch would be amazing for scum.

[Shinori]

And yeah I'm not talking much because, ***

[10506670]

I'm doing my best guys, I really am.

There's a couple of things that happened over the weekend that are particularly important for my life, and I'm looking forward to chilling it out for a couple of days, y'all.

Q: 10506670, what were your reasons for initially voting Shinori besides not seeing the lynch of anyone else happening? Would you be willing to lynch Shinori instead based on the current information you have available?

I forget who I'm responding to (was either buldermar or qwints), but I'll state my views on Shinori. He was just so incredibly useless until this week, and my initial reasons for voting him are centered upon

1. Having not thought of a better candidate
2. Because he was useless and distracting me from doing 1

However, I have now thought of a better candidate, helped by the fact that around 200 posts ago Shinori actually attacked someone legitimately. So I'm only considering a Shinori lynch if it comes down to the wire - otherwise I'm pushing for Mr. Jun.

[Hiraki]

Shinori is now a necessary evil as she forgot where her vote was.

NJAC will be tomorrow's lynch, qwintz.

[Jun]

I think Maenara is at L-1 so anyone who wants to vote her further should make sure they know what they're doing if they vote.

[Smashbard]

I will be perfectly honest with you guys, because I feel like I've gotten to know some of you in some small way, so I feel like I can afford to let you in on my moment of weakness.

I just got a new TV and Cable installed this weekend after going a year without TV, so I've neglected this game in favor of messing around with hundreds of channels that I will never use nor watch again. So for that, I am truly sorry.

The following post with answer a question directed at me, stating my reads.

[Smashbard]

Refresh me. Without an vote analysis, what are your reads?

10506670: Initially had a very scummy read from him from Day 1. But I find him town as recently as Post #860 where he points to his own meta asking why it was relevant for Jun to use Thurhames one game meta to say "Trust me, he's town" but not bother analyzing Numbers own meta for the same purposes. I don't think scum would want to draw attention to previous games in case patterns could be drawn based on previous tactics.

Buldermar: I find him town. Actively engaging players in the game to ask him questions so he can be more involved in the process gives me warm town fuzzies.

Enigma: Scum. He started out real strong with being apart of the Shinori wagon. But upon reading #776 where he says "I almost don't know where the Shinori wagon came from" screams to me opportunistic scum who was just looking for an easy lynch, and now that it's cooled down is trying to look town by placing doubt on the early wagon that he was apart of.

Dividizzle: I want to play Weird Al's "Waffle King" just for this guy. I used to have a newbtown read on him. But he's so stuck on "Gee that Shinori wagon sure piled on fast, I'm so unsure!" that it makes me consider the very real possibility that Dividizzle and Shinori are scum.


Gotta go pick up my brother from work. I will finish this when I come back. Probably for the best. I need some pro-tip coaching on how to avoid these walls.

[theomoaner]

And I'm having difficulty reconciling this

Because short day = bad for town.

with this

What we need, right now, if this game is to get anywhere, is a lynch. Not just any lynch, of course, but not because anyone is particularly indispensable -

They were both posted the same distance from the deadline. I understood the reasons for calling for a lynch early on day 1 but it is so dissonant from the short=bad view expressed in #942, because even if the discussion is going round in circles it would surely still be bad for town for that to end early instead of using the time available to try to reach more than a policy/compromise lynch, and to gain analysable posts from people.

This then reads as "I want more time to try and push a case on Dividizzle", considering that she has Jun on her scum list and that is a likely alternative wagon, as qwints says, why try to start a new one. At this time I could easily see Maenara as scum with Jun.

I'm not going to switch my vote just yet, we first need clarification of whether Telo's vote stands and I wouldn't want to hammer without allowing Maenara the right to respond.

[theomoaner]

In fact If Telo's vote stands Maenara has been hammered. by Shinori.

[Maenara]

Right. Y'all admit they were completely different situations, and yet I still need to die for it?

Yes, I want either Dividizzle or Jun to be lynched today. No, I'd rather not have any of them lynched this exact minute, as we can still gather more information. Yesterday, on the other hand, we were being lead on a wild goose chase all over everything, and were busy tearing the town apart rather than getting anywhere.

If you can't see the difference between the two days, and why one warranted an early end and the other didn't, you need glasses. Yes, "short day = bad for town", but "the day 1 we were having = worse for town". There, is that simple enough terms?

And I like the fact that nobody actually bothered to comment on my case on Dividizzle. Sure looks like a townie thing to do, that.

P-edit: No, I haven't, because Shinori was already on the wagon.

[theomoaner]

Oh, wrong again, just went back to check and Shinori was already voting for Maenara. Didn't read that properly, sorry.

^P-edit, Ninja'd

[buldermar]

UNVOTE: Shinori
VOTE: Maenara
I am now firmly back on the Maenara=scum wagon. I see no way of reconciling the "motivations" behind these posts.

The problem, in this game, with automatically declaring all lurkers scum is that, no matter how you put it, we have a lot of bad players. Yes, I'm amongst them, big surprise. Doesn't change that fact. And we've got people doing things they really shouldn't have. The only real activity is the Combi/Telo shouting match, Smash venting at everyone for doing nothing, and Theo bitching at everyone for doing nothing.

Yeah, we need to do something, but if this game is to get anywhere, lynching the worst offenders (I'm looking at Shinori here), would make it more readable

and

give us some info do actually analyze.

to these posts

Because short day = bad for town.

He's not doing it anymore, and I wouldn't mind seeing him vigged or something, but I'm ambivalent on lynching him at current time when I have people who are scumreads rather than badtownreads.

If we lynch Shinori and he flips scum, that's a strong case for Maenara being scum too. However, if we lynch Maenara and she flips scum, that's not nearly as strong acase for Shinori being scum. I still strongly advocate for a Shinori lynch over a Maenara lynch.

[buldermar]

I'm doing my best guys, I really am.

There's a couple of things that happened over the weekend that are particularly important for my life, and I'm looking forward to chilling it out for a couple of days, y'all.

Q: 10506670, what were your reasons for initially voting Shinori besides not seeing the lynch of anyone else happening? Would you be willing to lynch Shinori instead based on the current information you have available?

I forget who I'm responding to (was either buldermar or qwints), but I'll state my views on Shinori. He was just so incredibly useless until this week, and my initial reasons for voting him are centered upon

1. Having not thought of a better candidate
2. Because he was useless and distracting me from doing 1

However, I have now thought of a better candidate, helped by the fact that around 200 posts ago Shinori actually attacked someone legitimately. So I'm only considering a Shinori lynch if it comes down to the wire - otherwise I'm pushing for Mr. Jun.

Will you please quote the posts in which you think Shinori has been useful for town?

[buldermar]

Shinori is now a necessary evil as she forgot where her vote was.

NJAC will be tomorrow's lynch, qwintz.

I don't follow this logic at all. Do you think tomorrow's lynch is independent of the alignment of Shinori?

[buldermar]

I will be perfectly honest with you guys, because I feel like I've gotten to know some of you in some small way, so I feel like I can afford to let you in on my moment of weakness.

I just got a new TV and Cable installed this weekend after going a year without TV, so I've neglected this game in favor of finding the best porn channels among hundreds of other useless channels that I will never use nor watch again. So for that, I am truly sorry.

The following post with answer a question directed at me, stating my reads.

Iamrightoramiright

[buldermar]

And I'm having difficulty reconciling this

Because short day = bad for town.

with this

What we need, right now, if this game is to get anywhere, is a lynch. Not just any lynch, of course, but not because anyone is particularly indispensable -

They were both posted the same distance from the deadline. I understood the reasons for calling for a lynch early on day 1 but it is so dissonant from the short=bad view expressed in #942, because even if the discussion is going round in circles it would surely still be bad for town for that to end early instead of using the time available to try to reach more than a policy/compromise lynch, and to gain analysable posts from people.

This then reads as "I want more time to try and push a case on Dividizzle", considering that she has Jun on her scum list and that is a likely alternative wagon, as qwints says, why try to start a new one. At this time I could easily see Maenara as scum with Jun.

I'm not going to switch my vote just yet, we first need clarification of whether Telo's vote stands and I wouldn't want to hammer without allowing Maenara the right to respond.

I don't think this is something Maenara has been thinking about, but the time not used on day 2 is much more detrimental to town than the time not used on day 1. This is because information (and thus usefulness of posts) accumulates during the game, so we're simply missing out on more by lynching early on day 2 than lynching early on day 1.

[buldermar]

In fact If Telo's vote stands Maenara has been hammered. by Shinori.

If this is true I may simply replace out due to the level of stupidity in this game.

[buldermar]

Right. Y'all admit they were completely different situations, and yet I still need to die for it?

Yes, I want either Dividizzle or Jun to be lynched today. No, I'd rather not have any of them lynched this exact minute, as we can still gather more information. Yesterday, on the other hand, we were being lead on a wild goose chase all over everything, and were busy tearing the town apart rather than getting anywhere.

If you can't see the difference between the two days, and why one warranted an early end and the other didn't, you need glasses. Yes, "short day = bad for town", but "the day 1 we were having = worse for town". There, is that simple enough terms?

And I like the fact that nobody actually bothered to comment on my case on Dividizzle. Sure looks like a townie thing to do, that.

P-edit: No, I haven't, because Shinori was already on the wagon.

Well, it boils down to points I've already made. In other words, I largely agree with how you interpret his posts, but I think a Shinori lynch is much more useful. I'd rather have divi lynched than you, but I'd also rather put my effort into getting Shinori lynched than divi.

[buldermar]

Prod request on combi.

[theomoaner]

I don't think this is something Maenara has been thinking about, but the time not used on day 2 is much more detrimental to town than the time not used on day 1. This is because information (and thus usefulness of posts) accumulates during the game, so we're simply missing out on more by lynching early on day 2 than lynching early on day 1.

I disagree, I think we needed the time more on day 1 than today, because as I said I very much feel that we ended up with what was for many a compromise lynch over a policy lynch and Maenara was looking to hurry that process. Today we have two or three viable wagons, and I feel are we are close to a point of reaching a consensus, and then Maenara is telling us to slow down and introducing a new case for consideration. It looks very much to me like an attempt to muddy the waters, and to break up town reaching a consensus by throwing a new target in at the last minute. If Maenara had been making a case on Dividizzle at any time prior to #919 I might have less of a problem but It's a scum read and case which has appeared out of nowhere.

Also, I don't feel that there is that much more information to be derived from today, without a lynch to resolve some of the various proposed scum teams, and allow us to analyse peoples actions.

If Telo's vote stands I'm going to swear, lots, but that's Mykonian's decision, not mine.

[qwints]

##Vote: Maenara.

My thoughts.

And yeah My main scum read is a supposed mason, However I still feel people on my wagon are the scum. Because easy misslynch would be amazing for scum.

Were you trying to fake hammer here?

[mykonian]

votecount

maenara (7): jun, eleison, NJAC, dividizzle, shinori, qwints, Telo
jun (4): smashbard, theomoaner, combinatorialEnigma, 10506670
shinori (2): buldermar, hiraki
dividizzle (1): maenara

not voting (0):

With 14 players it is 8 to lynch (7 to no lynch)

Deadline is on the 13th of october

As about the whole replacing thing, it's not the easiest to find willing replacements for a 30+ page large normal. Simply not that many people are interested in large normals.

[Maenara]

Okay, for all y'all who think I'm scum for my actions on D1, I'm going to ask you to do one thing.

Don't iso me. Rather, read my actions in context. Look at when I said what I said, and how things were(n't) proceeding.

And would someone please step off my wagon so some lynch-happy goon can't jump in and hammer me?

[qwints]

I'd like a lot more - "here are my reads on everyone" and a lot less "please don't kill me"