Mafia 158: Titanium. Game over

[TheButtonmen]

Hikari you went from;

Look guys. I understood the logic of Maenara, though I didn't agree with it.

to

I have a great doubt that PMysterious would replace out as scum but still be affluent on the site.

That being said, I've made my decision for today.

Vote: Maenara

Without ever really explaing what changed your mind, the only comments you made were meta speculation. What's changed?

[Smashbard]

Asking Hiraki to elaborate on his frequent changes of opinion is like asking a politician why they are going against their voting record as soon as they run for president.

Ironically useful for Mafia, but very frustrating to get a straight answer from.

[Jun]

So people are saying CE is town b/c PMysterious wouldn't drop a game as scum? I'm not sure I like that reasoning since he could just be overwhelemed with too many games and it would be bad for us to drop a strong lead just due to meta.

[Smashbard]

If by people you mean Enigmas scum partners trying to cast doubt on his wagon through peer pressure, and Hiraki, then yes.

It takes 7 to lynch at this point, and if we are right with 4 scum, that means all scum has to do is trick 3 townies into sheeping along with them and they can get anyone lynched they want.

Which is why I urge anyone who has any desire to aid in a town victory at this point to please consider your own thoughts and opinions rather than just seeing 2-4 people hop on a wagon and go "Derp derp, other people think this guy is scum therefore he must be!".

We've been doing that all game and it's getting us nowhere.

No matter what happens, I really urge whatever power roles that are out there to let us know what you've found by Day 4 if we haven't lynched scum by then. If we get to lylo and all the power roles just shut their mouths and let us lose due to fear of counter claims, I'll be upset with you.

Inb4ragingaccusationsofrolefishing.

[NJAC]

Yeah some would say you're rolefishing but I agree with you here. We need more info to stop mislynching, I was also going to suggest PRs to share some info today, but considering we still have a day to get to mylo I suppose they must decide for theirselves what's better.

You didn't answer my question Smashbard: Are Buldermar and Maenara town reads for you? If so why is that?

[NJAC]

Also, for everyone: if you're a townie going to be lynched STOP the I'm-fine-with-lynching-me attitude. It's also pro-town to defend ourselves from being mislynched...

[mykonian]

votecount

combinatorialEnigma (4): smashbard, jun, theomoaner, eleison
jun (2): 10506670, dividizzle
dividizzle (2): maenara, buldermar
maenara (2): hiraki, NJAC
smashbard (1): combinatorialEnigma

not voting (1): Thebuttonmen
With 12 players it is 7 to lynch (6 to no lynch)

deadline is on the 27th of oktober

[Hiraki]

Maenara's "bad counting" and comments today. I stand by what I said that I didn't mind the Maenara before. The Maenara now is what I have a problem with.

[Maenara]

What bad counting? I counted right. Mykonian messed up.

Maenara, I would like you to at least acknowledge these questions, and if possible answer them please.

... It's the same kind of kill two nights in a row,

In what way?

and I really doubt the mafia would voluntarily abstain from murdering someone twice.

Why would you even think this?

I'm not ignoring your Dividizzle case. I'm just trying to sort out my suspicions before moving on to yours. There are probably four scum to find, I have my own ideas about who they are and I need to work through them before moving on.

For the first one: Someone apologizing, the death-text being "X was killed". There's no difference between them, and there often is, when it's mafia vs. SK.

As for the issue of mafia not abstaining from kills, well, that's just common sense isn't it? My point was, it's probably the same faction which has managed to kill twice in a row, and my money is on both being done by the mafia.

[Jun]

Maenara is pretty scummy, but bearing in mind the August 10th join date, I think we should cut her some slack at least until a CE flip. That being said, CE also has a pretty recent join date so I'm less confident that what we picked up on was a scumslip instead of just a new player being new. Maybe someone else can weigh in on this. I think for now, my vote is still fine on CE. I guess atm my town reads are: smashbard, eleison, numbers, hiraki, njac, buldermar. Maenara, CE, dividizzle are my scum picks, and I need to read more of theomoaner and thebuttonmen who I've kind of been neglecting in my reads of this thread.

Oh yeah, I meant to post this:
I think Hiraki is town, but #1182 would make me consider Hiraki as scum bussing a partner if Maenara flips scum.

[Maenara]

Oh hai Jun. Nice to hear from you. If I flip scum, Hiraki is scum bussing me, and if Dividizzle flips scum, I'm scum bussing him? Fancy how you're trying to recover from your whole scum-team imploding.

[Maenara]

EDIT: Herpaderp, that makes no sense. Nevermind my last post. I need some time to think, what I just said was just... Bleh. Disregard that there.

[10506670]

I will need to reval Maenara, who I marked as town for some reason. Will not have much time until the weekend (flying to New York).

[dividizzle]

@Smash: did you miss my questions on the last page?

[TheButtonmen]

[quote="In post 1184I think we should cut her some slack at least until a CE flip.
[/quote]

What bearing does CE's flip have on your Mae read? Why do you want to let her slide until then?

[Smashbard]

To NJAC: Buldermar is definitely town to me. But that wasn't my motivation to guide them towards an Enigma wagon. They were both voting for Dividizzle based on thinking he was scum, so I was letting them know that if Enigma flips scum that I can all but guarantee that Dividizzle is scum too. So I was saying in essence "Hey, if you think Dividizzle is scum, lynch Enigma and you will have more concrete reasons for lynching Dividizzle next".

To Dividizzle: I think you are scum because you are one of the few people trying to undermine the Enigma wagon by saying "Come on guys, it was just a hat joke" when in reality it's the biggest scum slip anyone has committed this entire game. Which makes me believe you are scum trying to protect your partner. If Enigma flips scum, you're pretty much done in my eyes.

The advantage of not revealing all of my reads is twofold: 1) I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch. and 2) By not revealing who I feel are the entire scumteam, I make you guys sweat and force you into a corner. If I am right about Enigma, you're going to have to think long and hard about how you're going to deal with the Masons quickly closing in on the rest of you.

[theomoaner]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Maenara

She's either a SK or Scum.

For the first one: Someone apologizing, the death-text being "X was killed". There's no difference between them, and there often is, when it's mafia vs. SK.

It's a completely flavourless game, so why try and force a difference between SK and scum kills from NK scenes? Also why the fascination with the concept of there being an SK in this game?
I can only think of two reasons.
One. Maenara knows there is an SK, and there is only one reason for her to know this.
Two. Maenara is mafia and is aware that scum NK(s) failed due to a roleblocker or doc, thus meaning there is an SK in the game

As for the issue of mafia not abstaining from kills, well, that's just common sense isn't it? My point was, it's probably the same faction which has managed to kill twice in a row, and my money is on both being done by the mafia.

Again, there is an underlying assumption that there is more than one faction in the game with no evidence to the contrary, as yet.

[theomoaner]

Clearly you didn't get it.

Clearly.

[combinatorialEnigma]

Re: eating my hat.

[Maenara]

Theo, I don't know if there's a SK, but my logic works regardless of whether or not there is one - My point is, even if one such exists, the Mafia are virtually guaranteed to be the ones to have done both kills. Hence, if I was in charge of the kills, I'd have to be mafia. I don't know if there's a SK, and I'm not even particularly in favour of the theory anymore.

I still have to think up an intelligent response to the whole deal with Jun. Also, TBM, how's your view of Dividizzle?

[buldermar]

Re: eating my hat.

Shit just got real.

[dividizzle]

@Smash: I would view an enigma lynch based off that comment very differently if it were Day 1. I would be much quicker to support it. After two mislynches though I was hoping to develop a little bit more of a case, rather than reacting to one thing.

[dividizzle]

Also, Maenara what do you think about the enigma scumslip/wagon?

[Maenara]

I don't care much about the slip, but I want him dead regardless.

Also, is that video-posting even within site rules? Isn't it communication outside the game kinda... Banned?

#Do not bring outside influences into the game - this includes threats, bribes, wagers, promises, alliances, etc. Using knowledge from previous games is perfectly acceptable, but try not to carry grudges from one game to another.
# Do not talk outside the game thread about an ongoing game except where explicitly allowed to do so by your role/moderator. Likewise, do not use bbcode to hide secret messages - this equates to discussion outside the thread.

[NJAC]

Here, some questions to help me clarify my reads :

@Maenara: what happened with your case on Jun? why to pick dividizzle instead? and what do you think about the Masons?

@Eleison: I would really like to hear more from you, care to elaborate about your case on CE?

@numbers: you didn't answer why you think Maenara is town, care to answer?

@Hiraki: what do you think about the Masons and Jun? I'd also like to hear your read on me.

@TBM: you need to take a stance. What do you think about the Masons and Maenara? What have you found after rereading the Shinori's wagon you also supported?

@Theo: I agree with your comments about night actions. Do you think Mae is scummier than CE?

@Buldermar: you were very pro-town yesterday but you have not done enough today imo. Any comments about the Shinori wagon you led? Also I'm expecting you to elaborate about your sheeping Maenara with the Divid wagon.

@Jun: you ramble a lot, but I still see you as town. Take a stance on this: Masons claim is true or false?

@Dividizzle I see you took a stance, but why Jun instead of CE, even more when you said something like: "...that could easily be a scumslip especially considering the implicit gloating"?

@Enigma: Care to elaborate about your case on Masons fakeclaiming? and why to choose Smashbard instead of Eleison?

@Smashbard: sorry, no questions for you yet