Micro 53 -- Minimalist Mafia II (Game Over)

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

You should know that your previous slot already claimed to be a doctor. Do you back this up?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

^ @Empire, because new page ._.

[RedCoyote]

Prodding Hoopla, Luckyjt, and OhGodMyLife.

---

Vote Count 7

• Klick

  (drmyshotgun - Equinox - Ser Arthur Dayne)
  
  

  Venmar

  (Hoopla)

  
  

  drmyshotgun

  (Empire)

  
  

  Hoopla

  (Luckyjt)

  
  

  Equinox

  (OhGodMyLife)

  
  

  Ser Arthur Dayne

  (Klick)

  
  

  Not Voting

  (Venmar)

  
  

With nine alive, it takes five to lynch.
Current Deadline:

(expired on 2012-10-24 11:21:00)

[Venmar]

Hmm.

UNVOTE:

I reread, shotgun's town.

That leaves a pool for me of SAD, Hoopla, Lucky, OGML, and Venmar, in order from worst looking to best looking.

VOTE: SAD

- Why are your posts always so empty and bland and contentless? Can you explain ANY of those reads? Saying "I reread" doesn't actually say much, and this post doesn't make you look any better, rather just looks like you said something to compensate as a reason for your reads.

Why is SAD scum? Can you put your Hoopla scumread in your own words?

Vote: Klick

- This is where my vote belongs now.

This is L-1, so be careful guys.

[Klick]

Hmm.

How come you never nagged about this before, in this game or ever?

I really don't feel motivated for this game.

[drmyshotgun]

Empire is actually the title of my favorite Magazine. Empire, you are a Doctor, right?

[Luckyjt]

lol

Sorry been lurking hoping someone posted something to work with but didnt realize i went too far as to be prodded. Yes Im a lurker.

Anyways something is off about Venmar's vote. He says L-1 be careful, now as empire just said he is a newbie. Now Im not trying to say newbies dont know how to play but the way Venmar is putting his vote is making me think he is hoping for someone to "accidentally" hammer. Seems to be hoping for a mistake which is how I just read it.

[Empire]

No, I just got to the part where my predecessor claimed my role and I fucking hate everyone and everything right now.

Replacing into a game just to become fucking NK fodder is the absolute worst.

Short summary of what I'm thinking so far: Equinox, Hoopla and Dayne (probably) are town. Venmar's probably scum.

P-Edit: I should clarify, sorry for not doing so. I'm new to this site and forum mafia generally but I do have mafia experience elsewhere.

[drmyshotgun]

No Town points for you, then.

[Empire]

Ok, so I finally got done through reading the entire thread closely and here are my thoughts so far (warning: wallpost).

TOWN (Strongest to Weakest):

Equinox:

Of all the players, I find her scumhunting and play to be the most genuine. First off, I liked her early vote on shotgun (#32) as I got the same impression from his post (see below). Her “trolly” comments and admissions in her back and forth with OGML come across as natural – despite her experience, I don’t think she can fake stuff like #111 (first half), #124, and #126 especially in context with her comments about her boredom (#126). Her trying to push the game along in #205 and her paranoia of people townreading her in #159 are genuine as fuck to me. Super duper strong townread here.

Hoopla:

I don’t know how some of you guys are getting the impression that she was “acting.” I found her frustration with Dayne’s early quick-hammer reaction test to be extremely genuine (see: lines like “That was a selfish, egotistical play,” “They don't do step 1 and then skip the rest because they have the attention span of a squirrel”). They read to me like she’s pissed but not overly so to the point where it seems like a forced attempt to grab some cred. The way she approaches him implies she believes he’s town at this point, which I also liked. I think scum generally find risky gambits like that something super easy to push on. I do admit though, she’s kind of tapered off a bit and I would love to hear more from her especially re: Klick/Venmar.

OGML:

Though I totally disagree with his suspicion of Equinox, I found his comment in #182 (“What, beyond complaining, can I be expected to do in the face of a bunch of gut-town reads on my top scum read?”) and his paranoia of Hoopla (#116, 194) to be really genuine. Also, tackling Equinox seems like a really weird move to make as scum seeing as, I believe, she has not really drawn any major suspicion and I think scum are much more willing to take the path of least resistance. (By the way, completely tangential, but your Don Quixote avatar is baller.)

Dayne:

His early reaction gambit on my predecessor is so ballsy and risky that I have a really hard time believing it comes from scum as it would draw significant negative attention to him. Also, little comments like #72, second half (“I'm having fun being a rebel though :p This is the first time I actually listened to my gut and stuck by it.”) read like honest expressions of newfound confidence. His questioning my predecessor about his lack of understanding about the rules read like town who thinks he’s stumbled on something worth pursuing. Rest of his scumhunting, especially re: Venmar/Klick reads legit, too.

NULL:

Luckyjt:

Initially, I liked his early posts (#24/#36) especially the latter where he calls out shotgun and thought he came across as genuinely disturbed by the quick wagons forming and the potential for a rapid mislynch. However, #108 really jarred me and actually lends credence to the idea that he’s trying to distance himself from reckless town moves for the cred. However, something about his FoS on Hoopla in #143 seems legit – it’s a little more involved than, say, Venmar’s (see below) and could maybe be town. Not sure on him.

Klick:

I’ve had some trouble reading his posts since he doesn’t really elaborate too deeply on his reads. A skim of some of his completed games reveals that this might just be how he plays though. Tonally, I’m not getting anything off his posts either and it’s frankly kind of frustrating. Some of his posts, like #151, do kind of feel like reaching though.

SCUM (Strongest to Weakest):

Venmar:

His questions and reads, I think, have been extremely superficial especially re: his read on Hoopla (#171, 183, 191) using generalities such as “unimpressive” to describe his suspicions. When he does delve a little more deeply into his reasons, they either read as shallow (see 171 where he suspects her for a passing line about my predecessor’s claim + lack of elaboration on OGML) or extremely contrived (I honestly have no clue what he’s saying in 191 about her). He then drops it in favor of a vote on Klick where he focuses on, again, his lack of elaboration. Overall, he comes across like he’s opportunistically pushing easy votes on people drawing lots of heat and not actually scumhunting.

drmyshotgun:

Something feels off about him and I’m not quite sure I can put a finger on it right now. His #29 read on Klick is unnatural to me and feels like he’s just looking for reasons to suspect him, especially in light of #31/#34 (which feel like reaching). His read on my predecessor in #133 is paradoxical and reads like he’s opening himself up for the opportunity to move his vote there if the wagon flares up again. His reasons for townreading Venmar in #168 seem entirely superficial, based solely on his activity and “confusion.” Even stranger still is that he seems to call out Venmar for omitting him from the list in that very same post.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Venmar

[Empire]

*cracks knuckles*

tl;dr list:

Town(S->W):

Equinox, Hoopla, OGML, Dayne

Null:

Luckyjt, Klick

Scum(S->W):

Venmar, drmyshotgun

Venmar lynch is best lynch.

[drmyshotgun]

Lolage boy.

[Hoopla]

Hmmm. Equinox, why are you voting Klick again?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Hmmm. Equinox, why are you voting Klick again?

Hoopla, do you still think Venmar is scum? Also, what do you think of his response to me in 201?

...so, uh, apparently the reason Ser Arthur Dayne had the opportunity to place a false hammer was that I put Grump at a false L-1. Oops? Surprised nobody caught this or the fake L-1s during the awkward teen phase that is RVS.

May I just point out this is incorrect? You did put him at L-1. And then shotgun voted you here, thus taking his unvoting his vote from the grump wagon. Anyone glimpsing fast wouldn't have really have made the connection right away that Grump was no longer at L-1...

Hoopla, can you settle the score once and for all. Were you aware that Grump wasn't hammered or not? Because different people are interpreting it differently, and you still haven't clarified it...

[OhGodMyLife]

The sheer weight of Equinox town reads. Fine. I must be crazy.

Unvote, Vote: Venmar

A while ago I said this:

So... Venmar directly contradicted himself within the text of a single post. Did anyone else catch that?

Venmar's initial town reads:

Equinox is pretty obvious town to me. Lucky and OGML are also town.

His initial scum reads:

Scum are in = { Hoopla, Klick, and OGML } in no particular order.

[Equinox]

Hmmm. Equinox, why are you voting Klick again?

Didn't want a Venmar wagon, since I didn't see scum backing off a town read or answering my question the way Venmar did. (That being said, I am expecting something here, but I will get into it later tonight.) Didn't really want a Hoopla wagon; while I haven't yet done the reading, I just didn't feel like joining it due to reasons previously mentioned. Would have preferred OhGodMyLife except there was no traction and 2 days had passed with relative silence.

Klick really should talk about his read of Ser Arthur Dayne, though. I know Klick has a habit of not explaining tells, but in this case he really should because nearly everyone else has a town read of Ser Arthur Dayne.

[Empire]

Equinox, I don't think OGML is scum at all. His push on you was with such intense conviction that he comes across like he really believes it. And like I said earlier, it's a really bizarre and weird move for any scum to make. You (and everyone else) should join the Venmar wagon because it is made up of town and ownage and, as cocky as this will sound, my reasoning re: Venmar is ownage.

[Equinox]

Happy scum day, RedCoyote!

Now that this is a viable question: Venmar, explain to me how you managed to get such an "obvtown" read of me based on meta.

Remind me to mention something that is supposed to go here but isn't right this minute because a certain trigger hasn't been tripped yet.

May I just point out this is incorrect?

Pretend I didn't label Luckyjt's vote as having been on drmyshotgun and this mistake never happened.

[Hoopla]

Hoopla, do you still think Venmar is scum? Also, what do you think of his response to me in 201?

He's a decent chance. His response is just kind of a generic response - is it something extraordinary either way for you?

[drmyshotgun]

VOTE: Venmar

[Luckyjt]

intention to hammer any final words Venmar?

[Venmar]

My bad guys, real life and modding has set me back a bit. Responses are below.

Venmar:

His questions and reads, I think, have been extremely superficial especially re: his read on Hoopla (#171, 183, 191) using generalities such as “unimpressive” to describe his suspicions. When he does delve a little more deeply into his reasons, they either read as shallow (see 171 where he suspects her for a passing line about my predecessor’s claim + lack of elaboration on OGML) or extremely contrived (I honestly have no clue what he’s saying in 191 about her). He then drops it in favor of a vote on Klick where he focuses on, again, his lack of elaboration. Overall, he comes across like he’s opportunistically pushing easy votes on people drawing lots of heat and not actually scumhunting.

- I use certain expressions such as "unimpressive" or "obtuse" to explain my feelings. For example i say Obtuse when I think someone is being stupid on purpose. Whatever secondary feeling i have attached to the way I express my opinions are all linked to the fact I think they were scummy. I do not understand how this is a scumtell however, perhaps you could explain?

- I don't think it's exactly a case of me not explaining my reads and a more of a case of you not understand what I am saying. If we take post 191 as an example, you say you don't understand my reasoning via Hoopla rather than say it was anything else. I have been known in the past to point out scumtells and have a train of thought that people do not understand or disagree with. I was saying that people who don't look like they're town but also don't look like they're scum, are more than likely to be scum themselves. It's that scum tend to be able to be capable enough to avoid looking like scum, but capable enough to look like they're town, and this is the approach and feeling I had for Hoopla.

- In post 171, I don't know what is so shallow or unexplained about what I said about Hoopla. I said that her unneeded role speculation on Grump's role was scummy, and that her lack of explanation for a OGML wagon was scummy as well. Not to mention this is hypocritical of you when you're saying i am scum for being shallow when that's exactly what Hoopla was regarding OGML.

- You're just reaching with that reasoning for my vote on Klick. I listed Klick as one of my scumreads before, and throughout the game I have been addressing him in my posts and pointing out things that made him look scummy. Klick is someone who you form a scumread on but need time because he tends to increase it steadily rather than immediately, and the last few posts by Klick were enough to shut the cap on the bottle for me. My vote on Klick was legitimate. I'd also like to know which votes that I have pushed were "easy" and "opportunistic"? To my knowledge i've only voted Hoopla and Klick, which is an exageration on your part since I only had 2 votes so far, and I don't think Hoopla falls into such category.

lol

Sorry been lurking hoping someone posted something to work with but didnt realize i went too far as to be prodded. Yes Im a lurker.

Anyways something is off about Venmar's vote. He says L-1 be careful, now as empire just said he is a newbie. Now Im not trying to say newbies dont know how to play but the way Venmar is putting his vote is making me think he is hoping for someone to "accidentally" hammer. Seems to be hoping for a mistake which is how I just read it.

- Me saying be careful should obviously indicate I want to put a vote on Klick while telling Empire to be careful, to avoid that possible newbie error you just so happened to point out. Besides, this was all on the assumption Empire was a newbie, which i don't think he is, and you're a assuming i am keeping hyper active notes of everything as if I was scum, which I am not.

Now that this is a viable question: Venmar, explain to me how you managed to get such an "obvtown" read of me based on meta.

- Why do i feel like you're just a broken recorded repeating the same question to me?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

@MOD: V/LA for a couple of days. Some midterms coming up...

[Empire]

I'll post a rebuttal either tomorrow or Monday. Been busy with a lot of shit today.

[Equinox]

- Why do i feel like you're just a broken recorded repeating the same question to me?

Should I take this as you refusing to answer the question? There is an obvious difference between the questions I'd asked previously and the one I am asking you now.

Also, busy weekend, so I'll have limited access until Monday morning; I'll take care of all the stuff I need to then.