Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[jasonT1981]

Yes, it's the only answer you will get. now read the game where it has already been explained.

[Tammy]

Hey TAMMY! Funny segment. Remember I answered for whomever Jason asked. And you attacked me... shouldn't Jay have attacked me?

Hey BENMAGE! Funnier segment. Remember when that's not how that happened? You told Jason his vote was bad and to move it when he was trying to get a read on rc. Then you answered a question I asked to zab when I was trying to get a read and gave him an answer to the question I asked. I asked you why you were defending people before they got a chance to answer for themselves. You said you weren't doing that, and I pointed out that yes you had twice now...once to Jason and once to me.

[Benmage]

And he's been posting much more since he's come under suspicion.

Echoing what Yates said... A billion times I've seen the statement "he's lurking since coming under pressure"...what is this a damned if does damned if he don't?

I realize that the line between sub0optimal town play and scum play can be blurry.

But zabriel is clearly on the scum side of that line.

I don't know how you can make such a declarative statement... You call his play bizzarre. I often can't comprehend the rationale of individuals logic. But more often than not its coming from town. Scum tend to think more, react slower, and appear more levelheaded... I don't get bizzare = scummy. Imo its the opposite.

[Benmage]

Hey TAMMY! Funny segment. Remember I answered for whomever Jason asked. And you attacked me... shouldn't Jay have attacked me?

Hey BENMAGE! Funnier segment. Remember when that's not how that happened? You told Jason his vote was bad and to move it when he was trying to get a read on rc. Then you answered a question I asked to zab when I was trying to get a read and gave him an answer to the question I asked. I asked you why you were defending people before they got a chance to answer for themselves. You said you weren't doing that, and I pointed out that yes you had twice now...once to Jason and once to me.

Its disappointing that you drew a scum PM this game. I like Tammy town (I don't even think you like you as scum). You should likely NK me tonight.

[Benmage]

Here's a rough reads list I stuck in my drafts the other day:

Town:
Benmage

Prob town:
zabriel
jasonT1981
Zoroaster
Kise
Acosmist
Nero Cain
rapidcanyon


Undecided:
Kublai Khan
BloodCovenant
PeregrineV
ThAdmiral

N/A
Shahrizai
Cybertronix
snifit
Amrun

Probably scum:
Yates
I Am Innocent
Melmond
Tammy

I'm down to lynch anyone in the probably scum.

[Tammy]

Hey TAMMY! Funny segment. Remember I answered for whomever Jason asked. And you attacked me... shouldn't Jay have attacked me?

Hey BENMAGE! Funnier segment. Remember when that's not how that happened? You told Jason his vote was bad and to move it when he was trying to get a read on rc. Then you answered a question I asked to zab when I was trying to get a read and gave him an answer to the question I asked. I asked you why you were defending people before they got a chance to answer for themselves. You said you weren't doing that, and I pointed out that yes you had twice now...once to Jason and once to me.

Its disappointing that you drew a scum PM this game. I like Tammy town (I don't even think you like you as scum). You should likely NK me tonight.

PFFT! Every time I start to think you're likely to be town, you post something like this. I'm also a bit suspect at your reaction to IaI's request for reads. Don't you usually give a list of early reads, when you're town? Why the fit over being asked for reads in this case? Why aren't you actually trying to read people in this game?

[Tammy]

Oh, never mind on the reads list thing.

[Amrun]

Yes, it's the only answer you will get. now read the game where it has already been explained.

I asked you a different question which you failed to answer. Here's another: why are you actively discouraging me from contributing?

[snifit]

No objections to the IAI wagon from me.
Oh and I forgot to answer something from Pere's #334: Kublai Khan isn't being lynched today, so if Kise is scum then it just means he doesn't want to be on a wagon right now. But there are other people he can park his vote on that have less chance of backfiring than KK. Thus, unlikely push from scum.

[jasonT1981]

Yes, it's the only answer you will get. now read the game where it has already been explained.

I asked you a different question which you failed to answer. Here's another: why are you actively discouraging me from contributing?

I'm not, in fact I am doing opposite of what you are saying I am.

I am telling you to read the game instead of basing things off the one or two posts you have admitted to reading. As what you have asked, has already been answered. Now, read the game and don't expect others to do the work for you by telling you things already stated and can be found by reading the game.

I am actually encouraging you to find the answers yourself in this game that have been talked about rather than hand them to you on a plate.

[Tammy]

Meh...KK does raise some good points about zab, but his inconsistency and not answering ever question aimed at him, along with him apparently not knowing about fake claims, points to him more likely being town. As scum, I think he'd be more likely be a little more consistent on things. I'm leaning town on him now and don't feel good about his wagon anymore. I understand neros frustration, and his position is one I've held lots of times, but he reads to me as someone who is trying to figure things out even if his leaps in logic sometimes are confusing.

unvote

Still reading jason, KK, Nero, and Thad as town and leaning town on zab, Yates, aco, and kise.

Eh...running late, I'll move my vote when I get back home after I look at a few things.

[Shahrizai]

Sorry I haven't caught up here yet. I've gotten up to date on the reading, and just need to write it all out, but I'm heading to Sunday brunch and stuff with family so it will be later tonight.

[Benmage]

I'm also a bit suspect at your reaction to IaI's request for reads.

4 suspects.. with reasoning...

4

... from a player who is part of the problem. The problem which I stated in my response is that too many players contribution has been so minimal a read or an attempt at explaining a read is nonexistent or waste of trying to force something that cannot yet be.

Tammy give me 4 of your top suspects with reasoning why, and say 2 top town reads with reasoning why.

[Benmage]

^I really dont even care if you answer that... its just ridiculous. You can iso me for reads and contribution. You want me to list my current suspects sure... But WITH REASONING. *insertmiddlefinger*

The people I usually hound for reads are the ones not giving them. THE NONcontributors... and the max I've ever asked for is 3. I think asking more forces stretching or shit responses like 'gut'.

[Kise]

Okay. Sounds like you're letting past reputation cause you to have confirmation bias.

Well, unless you've

lost it

, then YEAH I'm thinking you would be on the lookout for someone pulling the wool over your eyes.

would it make more sense to lynch Acosmist relatively soon (before lets say... day 3), than leave him alive being unconfirmed?

As I said before, I don't like the idea of a policy lynch on Acosmist. I don't see any reason for planning that this early.

you're right. if you've played any MGS games, you'd know snake keeps his cool and isn't a bitch.

Seriously doubting his claim because of this is just absurd, especially without knowing the flavor. Unless he's actually doing something scummy, why lynch him, it's not like, say.... A hated townie.

And not to mention, the whole 2 mafias thing with Zabriel.

What was bad about that?

Also, Solid Snake is a main character, and one that we'd generally assume is in the game. I feel like it would be too ballsy to fakeclaim when somebody could very easily nameclaim and send him to the gallows quick.

God I hope as I read further someone corrected this^.

@zabriel

Sometimes mods will not include main characters (I know crazy). And also sometimes they won't include them, BUT they will give them to scum as SAFECLAIMS.

This is actually a pretty decent town tell.

How so?

@Aco: Your thoughts on people in this game, pls?

[pappums rat]

Votecount 1.9

"Still ticking, huh?" -Raiden
"Unfortunately, Hell had no vacancies." -Vamp, Metal Gear Solid 2

zabriel - 5 (jasonT1981, Nero Cain, Kublai Khan, I Am Innocent, Zoroaster)
BloodCovenant - 3 (Yates, snifit, Melmond)
Kublai Khan - 2 (Kise, zabriel)
ThAdmiral - 2 (Acosmist, BloodCovenant)
I Am Innocent - 2 (Benmage, ThAdmiral)
snifit - 1 (PeregrineV)

Not voting - Shahrizai, Cybertronix, Amrun, Tammy, rapidcanyon

BloodCovenant is V/LA until Monday.

With 20 alive it takes 11 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is 10 PM EST on October 29, 2012.

[rapidcanyon]

Catching up from I left off. I am writing as I read through. I like the Admiral's post 193, it is logical and makes sense overall.

Regarding Yates and Jason, I didn't get Yates's FOS on Jason. Unless I am mistaken, it seems to me that Jason was saying that game flavor doesn't match actual book/film flavor. It is a completely null statement.

Nero's pressure on Zab seems town-motivated overall, and I do think that scum are more reactive than pro-active and Zab has thrown a FOS on the people who FOSsed Acosmist. I can buy that he didn't check the votecount and was referring to players that were calling for Acosmist to be lynched. What I don't get is the lack of specific names for his FOSses. He then votes Ben not for the Acosmist FOS but for an entirely different reason. 203 is really vague. Whatever happened to the people he was "not a fan of" that he believed were on the Acosmist "wagon?"

After AV's kill, his ISO was helpful. He made all of 5 votes and FOSsed Jason and Yates. I am thinking the probability is higher that he was picking townies to FOS as opposed to distancing from his buddies so just by that, I am leaning town on Jason and Yates.

I am not entirely sure that it was a dayvig that killed AV as opposed to a daytime serial killer. AV made 4 posts and none of them seemed really scummy to me when read while ignoring the fact that we already know his alignment. So, why would a dayvig feel the need to shoot so quickly and on someone who barely had any posts?

Tammy's 255, those were the thoughts I was thinking as well although her conclusions are either murky or I didn't understand them. While I do find it odd that Zab was calling his biggest pusher town, I did the exact same thing in a recent game where I was town (although my read fluctuated a little). I do agree that scum can call their pusher town as well so I consider it null at best. What I don't like about Tammy's post though is that it isn't clear what she was saying from the post, i.e. Is Zab town for having a townread on his accuser or is he scum for doing so?

Now, of he's an alt as Nero suggests then these aren't very large town tells, but

I would imagine he would be a little more worried about the wagon on him, not be calling his biggest pusher town, and maybe be pushing a wagon more likely to go through than benmage.

I need to think bout this one.

Would he be doing the bolded things if he was scum or if he was town? I don't quite get what you are trying to say.

Now on page 12, while I agree that the Zab wagon formed a bit too easily, it doesn't necessarily indicate that Zab isn't scum. Also, saying that he is town because the wagon was too easy equates to saying that scum don't bus. I think it is a possibility that scum voted him. If there are multiple scum factions as has been theorized, the scum faction Zab is not in may be voting him.

IAI's 280. He said a lot of things about Zab that I agreed with yet the motivation to zone in on just Zab and ignore the others says scum with an easy target. Looking at it that way, he could easily be over-justifying the vote on Zab. Motivation is more important than just content.

Kise's 311 comes off as a very strong town post to me explaining his position and giving opinions on KK, Snifit, and IAI.

Overall, I am going to go with IAI.

VOTE: I am Innocent

[jasonT1981]

rapidcanyon, answer the question I asked, which you have repeatedly avoided.

[rapidcanyon]

I am sorry, I must have missed it. Can you repeat it?

[rapidcanyon]

Never mind, found it.

I quickly skimmed through the first page. I didn't read in detail. I planned to come back later. I voted myself partly to see how people would react, partly just for the heck of it.

A more important question is why is an RVS vote important to you on page 15?

[Kise]

I am not entirely sure that it was a dayvig that killed AV as opposed to a daytime serial killer. AV made 4 posts and none of them seemed really scummy to me when read while ignoring the fact that we already know his alignment. So, why would a dayvig feel the need to shoot so quickly and on someone who barely had any posts?

Not for nothing but if I didn't see the daykill in my preview edit, AV's name would have been on my list too. He didn't do anything obvscum, but his contributions weren't informative or pro-town at all. I'ma say town dayvig because they could have killed off a townish player instead of AV and - barring a forensics type role - would not have been sniffed out.

unvote
vote: i am guilty

kekekeke

[I Am Innocent]

pappums, I am very sorry but I need to ask for a replacement

I hope you'll still consider me for future games, but at this pt I cannot promise this game anymore time in the next 10 or 11 days. I really hoped I could put in enough time until D2 when there would be something to analyze, but that has not been the case.

Thoughts leaving the game.
-Played with Benmage once, he was a prick in that game too, but he never backed down like he did when others told him to calm down. Was town that game, which makes me wonder about this one.

-Ben said he has never seen scum self vote and that was a town tell, I find that interesting as the game we played I voted town and he continued to push me the whole game. Interesting change of philosophy that I couldn't help but noted.

-Zoroaster and Zabriel attacked Jason for attacking the claimed PGO. I did that as scum last game (jason modded, pappums and many of you were in it, I think Pidgey was the town I attacked). I'll bet at least one of them are scum.

-BC/Zab are not teammates, but I'm willing to be that at least one of them are scum. Maybe both if Zabs slipped on this being multiball

-I've played with Jason scum before, and the calm Jason at the beginning of this game under pressure was not the one I saw folding under early pressure when we were scum together.

-Nero, Tammy, and KK have many times posted things that I was thinking during my read through. That was the basis for my early town reads. Plus Nero killing a scum obv only added to that.

[Zoroaster]

attacked Jason for attacking the claimed PGO.

This is incorrect. I attacked Jason for flavor logic reasons. I didn't care about the PGO claim when I voted Jason.

[Benmage]

Thoughts leaving the game.
-Played with Benmage once, he was a prick in that game too, but he never backed down like he did when others told him to calm down. Was town that game, which makes me wonder about this one.

-Ben said he has never seen scum self vote and that was a town tell, I find that interesting as the game we played I voted town and he continued to push me the whole game. Interesting change of philosophy that I couldn't help but noted.

Before you go can you remind me what game this was?

Where have I backed down?? w/e...

[Benmage]

Oh I found it^.

It was Zachs mountainous game,

from 2 years ago.

So lets consider it part of the process of me developing said philosophy. Yeesh. (nor am I saying its absolute... IM SURE someone could find a game of scum selfvoting(outside of hammers))