A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Regfan]

Do very much think AV is town right now which is bleh.

Tierce, Timeater works as Aegon scum because Sala completely ignored her and what was going on re; her earlier in the game but jumped on Feysal and Minimum when they garned attention. Can very much see this being him not sure what stance to take on partner and instead just jumping on posisble alternate wagons. Sapors comments on the slot as well make sense as a partner but overall really the only reason I'm relatively confident in it being scum is process of elimination. I have far too many town-reads and while I know that it means that a few are likely wrong I don't think

all

the scum are inside my town/null-reads which leaves Timeater being likely scum. Scumhunter lurking and not taking part in the game matches his scum play, as town he's engaged. Timeaters replace in other than his back-and-forth with Tammy isn't anywhere near as aggressive or engaged as I expect from him and that's nothing to do with him being V/LA at the moment. But how about this, instead of Timeater you can give me a better alternative for a lynch because I'm not seeing one.

[Eddard Stark]

Day 5, Votecount 16

Thor665 (2) - Minimum, Zdenek

Timeater (6) - Magua, Plums Yo Mamma, kortul, Regfan, Regfan, Shinori

Zdenek (4) - 4nx3ty, Thor665, Pandora, Timeater
AurorusVox (1) - BBmolla

Not Voting (2):

Tyene Sand, Aurorusvox

With 14 alive and 1 living dead it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline

: 25th October at 19:30pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-10-25 14:30:02)

[/color]

[BBmolla]

UNVOTE:

[Thor665]

Careful BB, you're dangerously close to actually being pro-town and proactive there.

Wanna vote Zdenek and make the plunge?

[BBmolla]

Waiting for Tierce, might as well sheep a town player who I've actually seen have good reads.

[4nxi3ty]

the case on zdenek as i see it:

>want him to explain his read of me and contradict his autolynch regfan statement
>no response

>pull up example of why i want him to explain (his change of read after i call him leaning town) plus a vote
>first point of why i am wrong is that it wasn't a huge change?
second point is that it had nothing to do with me all about mockingjaye looking town

>i pointed out that his original reason for wanting my lynch was that mjaye did something scummy and it didn't make sense with reasoning that she looked town
>he explains that not everything that a player says has to be town to have an overall townread

how he describes his mjaye read as overall town directly conflicts with him being okay with my lynch earlier. he then tries to go back and go 'look. see. my read developed and changed throughout the day' but that doesn't change how he described his read.

i am wondering if his constant need to stick to mjaye being the reason for his switch is just him avoiding that i did something to change his mind.

and i think some of thor's and tim's points against zdenek are valid as well.

[Zdenek]

the case on zdenek as i see it:

>want him to explain his read of me and contradict his autolynch regfan statement
>no response

NOPE!

I explain my read on you in Post 3292.
I explain my issue with Tierce and Regfan here:

why did you think there was a connection between tyene and regfan?

He's defending her. He's basically conf. town though, so I don't care anymore.

>pull up example of why i want him to explain (his change of read after i call him leaning town) plus a vote
>first point of why i am wrong is that it wasn't a huge change?
second point is that it had nothing to do with me all about mockingjaye looking town

The reason that I decided that I would no longer lynch you was given before you called me leaning town.

>i pointed out that his original reason for wanting my lynch was that mjaye did something scummy and it didn't make sense with reasoning that she looked town
>he explains that not everything that a player says has to be town to have an overall townread

I have no idea what your point is. I can be wrong, and if I don't have a solid read on someone, from whom I can see some scummy things, I am not going to oppose their lynch.

how he describes his mjaye read as overall town directly conflicts with him being okay with my lynch earlier.

No it doesn't. Being okay with you being lynched and actively wanting you dead are different things.

he then tries to go back and go 'look. see. my read developed and changed throughout the day' but that doesn't change how he described his read.

i am wondering if his constant need to stick to mjaye being the reason for his switch is just him avoiding that i did something to change his mind.

and i think some of thor's and tim's points against zdenek are valid as well.

SINCE THE REASON THAT I CHANGED MY READ WAS GIVEN BEFORE YOU STATED THAT I WAS LEANING TOWN FOR YOU, THIS IS BULLSHIT.

I don't think that a single reasonable point has actually been raised against me.

[Zdenek]

the case on zdenek as i see it:

>want him to explain his read of me and contradict his autolynch regfan statement
>no response

NOPE!

I explain my read on you in Post 3292.
I explain my issue with Tierce and Regfan here:

why did you think there was a connection between tyene and regfan?

He's defending her. He's basically conf. town though, so I don't care anymore.

>pull up example of why i want him to explain (his change of read after i call him leaning town) plus a vote
>first point of why i am wrong is that it wasn't a huge change?
second point is that it had nothing to do with me all about mockingjaye looking town

The reason that I decided that I would no longer lynch you was given before you called me leaning town.

>i pointed out that his original reason for wanting my lynch was that mjaye did something scummy and it didn't make sense with reasoning that she looked town
>he explains that not everything that a player says has to be town to have an overall townread

I have no idea what your point is. I can be wrong, and if I don't have a solid read on someone, from whom I can see some scummy things, I am not going to oppose their lynch.

how he describes his mjaye read as overall town directly conflicts with him being okay with my lynch earlier.

No it doesn't. Being okay with you being lynched and actively wanting you dead are different things.

he then tries to go back and go 'look. see. my read developed and changed throughout the day' but that doesn't change how he described his read.

i am wondering if his constant need to stick to mjaye being the reason for his switch is just him avoiding that i did something to change his mind.

and i think some of thor's and tim's points against zdenek are valid as well.

SINCE THE REASON THAT I CHANGED MY READ WAS GIVEN BEFORE YOU STATED THAT I WAS LEANING TOWN FOR YOU, THIS IS BULLSHIT.

I don't think that a single reasonable point has actually been raised against me.

[kortul]

Finished reassessing Jal/Thor slot. My impressions of Jal remained the same, as for Thor - there are some glimpses of what i consider town behavior (like he is not afraid of unpopular stances), but overall impression is still rather negative. I can understand his PoV regarding Zdenek, but don't understand his mostly defensive position, and do not like reluctance to do research/work on more deep reads. The read on this slot shifted towards slightly leaning scum.

Feel a bit better about AV, since he admitted that his read was based on a wrong tell, and actually did some work on reread and on making his own reads.

Don't understand Zdenek position.

@Zdenek

, why and how "it's probably more productive to vote <Thor> at the moment"?

After the recent burst from Timeater my doubts as to whether my suspicions are correct returned. Even though i am wary that he is calling everyone voting him town, his emotions feel genuine. Have anybody seen Timeater/Aclhemist playing as a scum under pressure? I tried to skim over some of his games, but they look the same to me regardless of alignment, and i don't have the time to read into meta more deeply. Still, i don't have more strong suspects now.

[Zdenek]

Don't understand Zdenek position. @Zdenek, why and how "it's probably more productive to vote at the moment"?

Timeater was V/LA / not posting in the thread.

[Tyene Sand]

I want to check your facts, Regfan, but no, I don't have an alternative to propose at the moment (otherwise I'd be, you know, voting ._.). I know we are under three days to the deadline; however, nothing I do tonight will be productive, so I'll catch up on sleep and tackle this monster come the morning.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I see we're still doing a shitty wagon on Starbuckeater. That sure is a thing. Wake me up when people want to lynch someone who isn't just derp.

Like Zdenek?
Why do you think that Zdenek is scum?

[Timeater]

Can someone explain to me why Regfan is conftown? The whole double-voter thing aside.

Another thing that bugs me generally is the tendency to feel the need to "link someone to a scumgroup" - that line of thought is scummy as hell. Like its a prerequisite in order to lynch someone. I find that line of thought really troubling.

Lynch scummy people

, period. If there are

hard

facts that get in the way of lynching that person probably being scum, dont and look at someone else.

@Kortul

- I haven't been able to give this game the attention it deserves, you must understand. I still haven't sat down and gave it a good read, thats sort of an all-day commitment for me. I am trying my best though. Something is troubling me - in your recent post you note that you think I am probably town. If this is the case then why is your vote still on me? I disagree with your assessment that my scum and town games look the same. As scum I am very dismissal, very scummy, very lazy. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=22999 is a relatively short game where I am the only mafia player in the game for the majority of it until I die.

@Reg/Max

- Whats troubling me about your analysis is of me its completely outside of what I have been doing. Re-assess your town reads and take another look at my behavior. I've been really busy. Notice I've been barely posting on the site, if at all. This is a huge difference from the normal timeater. I haven't even gotten around to playing xcom ;-;. Read Behind The Maiden - you know Tammy and I loathe each other. I dont see how that is outside myself at all and I dont see how thats enough to jusitify any sort of read on me. You usually can read me so easy its no problem and we never clash. This isn't the case this game and its troubling me alot.

@Tierce

- What about Zdenek? Also can you help me and list all the hard facts / role related stuff that have occured in the game so far? What I mean by that is what people claimed what, as far as actions and all things etc. Since you say you are going to tackle the beast perhaps you could do this for me and add a bunch of links to all the relevant claims and hard information?

[Timeater]

I don't think that a single reasonable point has actually been raised against me.

FYI this is insanity and patently untrue.

[Timeater]

In other news note the drop in activity from AV when the pressure is off.

[Zdenek]

I don't think that a single reasonable point has actually been raised against me.

FYI this is insanity and patently untrue.

no example?

[Zdenek]

Can someone explain to me why Regfan is conftown?

name cop result

[Timeater]

I don't think that a single reasonable point has actually been raised against me.

FYI this is insanity and patently untrue.

no example?

Why? So you can quibble minutiae? Several people have levied multiple valid points against you and your blanket dismissal is leading you into obvscum territory.

[Zdenek]

I think that every point that's been raised against me is stupid or false.

[Thor665]

Just because you believe it doesn't make it true. I feel my points against you are solid and true and that they haven't been defeated and that your case on me is silly and false and has - derpy-doo.

[Timeater]

I think that every point that's been raised against me is stupid or false.

Honestly this feels like a rather constructed thing to say. Its so over the top and blantatly arrogant it feels like it was made with the purpose of cementing the concept of a hard-headed character. It doesn't feel rooted in reality. Is Zdenek that disconnected? I say no. Speaking from personal experience, this is just the sort of thing I'd say as mafia.

[Zdenek]

Just because you believe it doesn't make it true. I feel my points against you are solid and true and that they haven't been defeated and that your case on me is silly and false and has - derpy-doo.

DIAF.

You look obvscum because it's awkward as hell to make your first post about how you're worried about people screwing up a deadline that's 2 weeks away, that's why no one bothered to explain their vote.

No vote on obv. scum ICEninja, but he would have been at l-1 so okay.

Thor's points against.me.

@Zdenek - this is how your last post reads to me;

I did research on Feysal's scum meta.
It doesn't match his play here.
I would like to lynch him here.
Therefore I'll say the meta doesn't matter because he could have changed it.

Unvote: Feysal
Vote: Zdenek

First of all, this was all bullshit, and my analysis of Feysal was awesome and exactly right.

Your meta points against me are irrelevant. I've not asked you to explain your logic, I've told you that you are wrong, and even if I had asked you to explain your logic that is not alignment relevant.

I didn't vote tor you at the start of the day because you are not my number one scum read.

Your attack of me over my stance on BBMolla was BS because it turned out that you essentially agreed with me.

Your attack of me over not addressing AV's claim was garbage because I had.

I think that's everything.

[Zdenek]

I think that every point that's been raised against me is stupid or false.

Honestly this feels like a rather constructed thing to say. Its so over the top and blantatly arrogant it feels like it was made with the purpose of cementing the concept of a hard-headed character. It doesn't feel rooted in reality. Is Zdenek that disconnected? I say no. Speaking from personal experience, this is just the sort of thing I'd say as mafia.

Hey scum, if that wasn't just bullshit rhetoric you would have given an example.

[Timeater]

I think that every point that's been raised against me is stupid or false.

Honestly this feels like a rather constructed thing to say. Its so over the top and blantatly arrogant it feels like it was made with the purpose of cementing the concept of a hard-headed character. It doesn't feel rooted in reality. Is Zdenek that disconnected? I say no. Speaking from personal experience, this is just the sort of thing I'd say as mafia.

Hey scum, if that wasn't just bullshit rhetoric you would have given an example.

>Give analysis on one of zde's posts
>He uses the fallacious logic of saying that because I did not give a specific example of a point raised against him in a prior post the analysis I just raised is invalid.

Also: cherrypicking

[Thor665]

1. My analysis remains fine on your Feysal push.

2. I did not agree with your BBMolla read, and you have even had someone else (Reg I think) agree with me that you don't seem to remotely grok what I was saying.

3. I explained how I found your addressing to be, how would you say, BS from my end. You did not address my rebuttal except to call it BS again. I suppose we could just go in a circle like that, but it seems stupid. I have pointed out the awkwardness of your approach and do not feel you have shown a lack of awkwardness there and your fiery insistance that it is BS and must be ignored as opposed to explaining how what you did was functional scumhunting makes me think I was right.

Also your flip onto me when I pointed out your current hypocrisy all while also still leaving yourself a back door side step off me when you wish is also scummy.