Mafia 158: Titanium. Game over

[Smashbard]

The only leeway I'm giving you at this point is your previous play being very town, and the fact that Majiffy says NJAC is town. So I have to reconsider my read on NJAC slightly because I know Majiffy is town. But make no mistake, I'm quickly getting this scumteam pegged. And I'm pretty sure Enigma, NJAC and Maenara are apart of it. Now it's just a matter of finding out who's with them and who's just falling for their bullshit.

[theomoaner]

And @Theo: a bit outdated but I didn't fully understand your post 1314. While I'm not refusing your points about the masons, because as I said buldermar already explained why falseclaiming masons as scums is suboptimal, I'd like you to clarify your odds.

I mean with two confirmed masons, it's 10 players left, 4 scums (I'm still wondering where you all get this but let's suppose it's likely) and 6 townies. That gives us a 4/10 (or 2/5) chance of not mislynching, right? Even if an hypothetical investigative role confirms two more townies, we would be in a 50/50 scenario (1/2 chance of mislynching) I guess...

You're right, probabilities were never my strong point.

Realised I didn't. VOTE: Maenara

[buldermar]

Because as much as my actions have dictated otherwise, I am not stupid. The second a mason wagon starts rolling you, Maenara and NJAC will be all over it as if you were for a Mason lynch the whole time, and the only reason you've backed off was because it quickly formed into an unpopular idea. I'm not letting you guys slide that one by without forcing you to look real scummy when it happens.

Your reasoning is flawed. Your essentially concluding from "if buldermar was scum he'd do this and be all over it as if he was advocating a Mason lynch the whole time" that "therefore buldermar is scummy". It's a hypothetical scenario that never happened and, as such, I'm defending myself against your misconception of what I would have done and what I would not.

I'm not going to spend more time defending myself against your vivid imagination as of now. I'll put more effort into showing why your reasoning is flawed should I get close to lynched.

[mykonian]

votecount

combinatorialEnigma (4): jun, majiffy, smashbard, dividizzle
maenara (4): hiraki, NJAC, combinatorialEnigma, theomoaner
dividizzle (2): maenara, buldermar
hiraki (1): Thebuttonmen

not voting (2): 10506670

With 12 players it is 7 to lynch (6 to no lynch)

deadline is on the 27th of oktober

[dividizzle]

@Maenara: Re: #1354, Don't get me wrong, based on pure scumreads I would happily be involved in a wagon for your lynching. however, at the time, if you look at both wagons, I think one looks decidedly more town than the other. This was a perfect example though. Anything I could have done, you would have taken as a scum read. I'm not advocating one-scumslip lynching, as should be obvious by my reluctance earlier to do so. But, the idea that every little thing is a slip is just as flawed.

@Thebuttonmen: What do you think about the lack of support for your Hiraki wagon? Also about his recent increase in activity?

[Majiffy]

Oh look, not a single scum read on CE's wagon, and two (including CD) on the counterwagon.

More CE votes.

I never asked for that.

Then what exactly

were

you asking for?

[Maenara]

Oh, look, Majiffy is expecting everyone to win at Mafiascum by following his flowchart!

More explanations.

@Dividizzle: You're not actually saying anything. "I'm not scum. Why? Because I'd totally be voting for you, even if I'm not. And I don't lynch based on slips, but I don't do it based on body of work either." How is that a defense in any way, shape or fashion?

[Hiraki]

Also about his recent increase in activity?

This hasn't actually happened.

[buldermar]

I never asked for that.

Then what exactly

were

you asking for?

Reasons. You don't have to reread.

[theomoaner]

I fixed your post for you.

Oh look, not a single one of my scum reads on CE's wagon, and two (including CE) on the counterwagon.

Now it's more accurate. Strange how you neglect the fact the the counterwagon is also on one of your scum reads.

[10506670]

THIS game is becoming impossibly hard to read. I had 3 scumreads mainly based off votecount analysis, but none of them are solid enough to make much of a case on. I'm just going to lay down my thoughts from this point on.

JUN has turned more of an inexperienced noob read to me. I will clarify down below of some shifts in my reads.

THERE'S a couple of people whom I trust as town, and these would be buldermar and the two masons. The former because he's done a good job of hunting and picking out stuff, and the latter because smash looked town enough early on. That leaves

Combi, dividizzle, Hiraki, jun, mae, NJAC, TBM, and Theo

I don't see Rubik as being scummy. You guys keep talking about his hat, and his lack of content, but seriously it reads to me as a complete joke. The video, which Mykonian has clarified was within site rules, reassures me somewhat of this (which leads me to question whether it should have been legal or not), and even Maenara, in trying to get CE modkilled over the hat, is in essence implying that

he looks town

.

dividizzle, hiraki, jun, mae, NJAC, TBM, Theo

THIS may seem counter-intuitive but as another result of the hat scenario I'm thinking Jun is leaning closer to town now. Maybe more of a null, but I found something I only glanced over before:

Get ready to start eating. I want this guy lynched tomorrow if I get hammered today. He was my biggest scum read until I switched to Maenara since his train wasn't gaining traction. Maenara and everyone agrees that he seems really scummy, yet nobody wants to vote him with me. Interesting.

Scum. Scum. Scum.

I'd have to say I believe Jun on this one. He did read combi quite clearly as scum before switching onto Mae, so the facts line up. But more than that, the tone of the first two sentences feels genuine to me. I don't exactly like the ending of the post, but I'd have to say that he seems pretty damn confident that CE will be wrong.

ON a side note, TBM, if you come after me with a spoon I will shove ice cream down your throat.

I'm putting him aside for now, leaving at least 3 scum (possibly 4) among

dividizzle, hiraki, mae, NJAC, TBM, Theo

I'll finish later, don't want to accidentally lose this.

Any reason for the arbitrarily capitalized words? Or am I trying too hard to make something of them?

Any reason for the arbitrarily capitalized words? Or am I trying too hard to make something of them?

It's a breadcrumb designed to allow me to claim actress while still maintaining the persona of an investigative role capable of killing people.

[dividizzle]

^ I don't understand this.

And @Maeanara: I can't tell if you are purposefully misrepresenting my words, or if you are so caught up in trying to tunnel me that it happens subconsciously.

[combinatorialEnigma]

Div, I'm like 99% sure Numbers is being sarcastic.

[dividizzle]

yes i'm sorry, i'm stupid. I was responding to maenara and then saw that last post and looked at it once and said uh oh this will require more thinking.

[Jun]

NJAC, why won't you vote CE again?

[Smashbard]

Because as much as my actions have dictated otherwise, I am not stupid. The second a mason wagon starts rolling you, Maenara and NJAC will be all over it as if you were for a Mason lynch the whole time, and the only reason you've backed off was because it quickly formed into an unpopular idea. I'm not letting you guys slide that one by without forcing you to look real scummy when it happens.

Your reasoning is flawed. Your essentially concluding from "if buldermar was scum he'd do this and be all over it as if he was advocating a Mason lynch the whole time" that "therefore buldermar is scummy". It's a hypothetical scenario that never happened and, as such, I'm defending myself against your misconception of what I would have done and what I would not.

I'm not going to spend more time defending myself against your vivid imagination as of now. I'll put more effort into showing why your reasoning is flawed should I get close to lynched.

Political Translation: Damn son, you just exposed my plan so I'm not going to acknowledge what I would or wouldn't do in that situation so I can remain safely on the fence on this issue.


For anybody not on the Enigma Wagon, you need to make a convincing case as to why someone else is a better lynch for today. (Besides Maenara because nobody gives a shit about the Dividizzle Wagon). I've already made my argument as to what kind of reads we can get from an Enigma flip. Detractors need to do the same about the other wagons to convince a majority that your target is better than Enigma.

[buldermar]

Because as much as my actions have dictated otherwise, I am not stupid. The second a mason wagon starts rolling you, Maenara and NJAC will be all over it as if you were for a Mason lynch the whole time, and the only reason you've backed off was because it quickly formed into an unpopular idea. I'm not letting you guys slide that one by without forcing you to look real scummy when it happens.

Your reasoning is flawed. Your essentially concluding from "if buldermar was scum he'd do this and be all over it as if he was advocating a Mason lynch the whole time" that "therefore buldermar is scummy". It's a hypothetical scenario that never happened and, as such, I'm defending myself against your misconception of what I would have done and what I would not.

I'm not going to spend more time defending myself against your vivid imagination as of now. I'll put more effort into showing why your reasoning is flawed should I get close to lynched.

Political Translation: Damn son, you just exposed my plan so I'm not going to acknowledge what I would or wouldn't do in that situation so I can remain safely on the fence on this issue.


For anybody not on the Enigma Wagon, you need to make a convincing case as to why someone else is a better lynch for today. (Besides Maenara because nobody gives a shit about the Dividizzle Wagon). I've already made my argument as to what kind of reads we can get from an Enigma flip. Detractors need to do the same about the other wagons to convince a majority that your target is better than Enigma.

Now you're expecting me to defend myself with hypothetical "I think I'd do this and that"'s? This is getting hilarious.

[Smashbard]

Because as much as my actions have dictated otherwise, I am not stupid. The second a mason wagon starts rolling you, Maenara and NJAC will be all over it as if you were for a Mason lynch the whole time, and the only reason you've backed off was because it quickly formed into an unpopular idea. I'm not letting you guys slide that one by without forcing you to look real scummy when it happens.

Your reasoning is flawed. Your essentially concluding from "if buldermar was scum he'd do this and be all over it as if he was advocating a Mason lynch the whole time" that "therefore buldermar is scummy". It's a hypothetical scenario that never happened and, as such, I'm defending myself against your misconception of what I would have done and what I would not.

I'm not going to spend more time defending myself against your vivid imagination as of now. I'll put more effort into showing why your reasoning is flawed should I get close to lynched.

Political Translation: Damn son, you just exposed my plan so I'm not going to acknowledge what I would or wouldn't do in that situation so I can remain safely on the fence on this issue.


For anybody not on the Enigma Wagon, you need to make a convincing case as to why someone else is a better lynch for today. (Besides Maenara because nobody gives a shit about the Dividizzle Wagon). I've already made my argument as to what kind of reads we can get from an Enigma flip. Detractors need to do the same about the other wagons to convince a majority that your target is better than Enigma.

Now you're expecting me to defend myself with hypothetical "I think I'd do this and that"'s? This is getting hilarious.

Oh I don't expect you to defend yourself at all. I know you'd jump on a Mason wagon opportunistically because you brought up the desire to test it in the first place, only "realizing" that it was a bad idea after half the town rebuked your idea.

The important thing isn't to convince YOU that this is your plan, but to convince everyone ELSE that this is your plan so that we can keep an eye on your actions and the motives behind those actions so you can't slip away under a thin veil of trying to look "protown" by lynching the only two claimed power roles in the game.

[Smashbard]

Your vote is on Dividizzle, someone that a good chunk of the people playing so far believe to be town at the moment, and only one guy agrees with you, who happens to be digging himself deeper and deeper into a scumhole the more he struggles to tunnel on one guy, while also opportunistically jumping on any wagon that gains steam...except for Enigmas. Which is my big argument for him being Enigmas scum partner. He's done a great job of making it seem like he would never be partners with Enigma due to his hatred of him. But if he wants him dead so much, why not join in the lynch for him? Because he knows how Enigma will flip, and he doesn't like the idea of an actual scum getting lynched on this day. They want to go for the clean sweep.


So tell me, how has the most anti town presence this day phase (Maenara) been able to convince a once bastion of protown logic such as yourself to join in on such a pointless, OMGUS filled tunnel wagon? What makes Dividizzle the scummiest person in the game, and not just yet another baseless policy lynch along the same lines of Pirate Mollie and Shinori?

If you're gonna lynch a dude for fence sitting, lynch NJAC. If you're gonna lynch a dude for not contributing, lynch Numbers. If you're going to lynch somebody because of a perceived scumslip, not only has Enigma made such a slip, but he's paraded the slip around for the past two weeks with such carelessness that he's stopped even bothering contributing to the game. Instead just reserving himself for posting one liners and spam because he now knows he's no longer expected to contribute to look town, and can afford to be as distracting as he wants to be because people like yourself will make excuses for him as to why it's not scummy.

[Smashbard]

I mean, I know it's hard for some people to do this, but just THINK about it. How active was Enigma Day 2 when Shinori's neck was on the line? He was practically leading that wagon pushing for more votes on the guy, presenting arguments and counter arguments as to why Shinori or Jun was the ideal Day 2 Lynch.

But once he got his way and Shinori got lynched, he has proceeded to drop off his level of activity to nearly nothing of usefulness. Instead just sitting back and playing arm chair critic about how useless everybody elses posts are. This is not the Enigma who replaced in like a ball of fire and took charge of Day 2's scumhunting efforts until Qwintz arrived.

Oh but his complete 180 in strategy since the last night phase isn't scummy at all right? Please, cut the bullshit and lynch the scum already.

[buldermar]

Because as much as my actions have dictated otherwise, I am not stupid. The second a mason wagon starts rolling you, Maenara and NJAC will be all over it as if you were for a Mason lynch the whole time, and the only reason you've backed off was because it quickly formed into an unpopular idea. I'm not letting you guys slide that one by without forcing you to look real scummy when it happens.

Your reasoning is flawed. Your essentially concluding from "if buldermar was scum he'd do this and be all over it as if he was advocating a Mason lynch the whole time" that "therefore buldermar is scummy". It's a hypothetical scenario that never happened and, as such, I'm defending myself against your misconception of what I would have done and what I would not.

I'm not going to spend more time defending myself against your vivid imagination as of now. I'll put more effort into showing why your reasoning is flawed should I get close to lynched.

Political Translation: Damn son, you just exposed my plan so I'm not going to acknowledge what I would or wouldn't do in that situation so I can remain safely on the fence on this issue.


For anybody not on the Enigma Wagon, you need to make a convincing case as to why someone else is a better lynch for today. (Besides Maenara because nobody gives a shit about the Dividizzle Wagon). I've already made my argument as to what kind of reads we can get from an Enigma flip. Detractors need to do the same about the other wagons to convince a majority that your target is better than Enigma.

Now you're expecting me to defend myself with hypothetical "I think I'd do this and that"'s? This is getting hilarious.

Oh I don't expect you to defend yourself at all. I know you'd jump on a Mason wagon opportunistically because you brought up the desire to test it in the first place, only "realizing" that it was a bad idea after half the town rebuked your idea.

The important thing isn't to convince YOU that this is your plan, but to convince everyone ELSE that this is your plan so that we can keep an eye on your actions and the motives behind those actions so you can't slip away under a thin veil of trying to look "protown" by lynching the only two claimed power roles in the game.

If it wasn't because I - for reasons that

ONLY I

pointed out - find it fundamentally suboptimal for scums to claim Mason, I'd vote you for being so incredible illusory and anti-town. Having to deal with your stupidity at this point is becoming tedious - you fail to acknowledge the fact that you're tweaking your entire perception of events in this game to fit your newly acquired idea of my encouragement of discussion being a scum desire. As previously mentioned, this stems from your inability to comprehend that what may be optimal from your local vantage point isn't optimal from a global vantage point - that is, although discussing the possibility of you being scum is not optimal for your own win condition (even as town), it can easily be optimal for town as a whole to discuss. I'm beginning to have little faith in you being capable of understanding this at any point in this game. Therefore, I'm inclined to simply leave you be with your delusions and have you learn from your fatal mistakes once you - one way or the other - gets confirmation about my true alignment. Just keep in mind that I countless times pointed out how your reasoning is flawed and why it should be avoided, and you may end up learning something from this game.

[Smashbard]

Because as much as my actions have dictated otherwise, I am not stupid. The second a mason wagon starts rolling you, Maenara and NJAC will be all over it as if you were for a Mason lynch the whole time, and the only reason you've backed off was because it quickly formed into an unpopular idea. I'm not letting you guys slide that one by without forcing you to look real scummy when it happens.

Your reasoning is flawed. Your essentially concluding from "if buldermar was scum he'd do this and be all over it as if he was advocating a Mason lynch the whole time" that "therefore buldermar is scummy". It's a hypothetical scenario that never happened and, as such, I'm defending myself against your misconception of what I would have done and what I would not.

I'm not going to spend more time defending myself against your vivid imagination as of now. I'll put more effort into showing why your reasoning is flawed should I get close to lynched.

Political Translation: Damn son, you just exposed my plan so I'm not going to acknowledge what I would or wouldn't do in that situation so I can remain safely on the fence on this issue.


For anybody not on the Enigma Wagon, you need to make a convincing case as to why someone else is a better lynch for today. (Besides Maenara because nobody gives a shit about the Dividizzle Wagon). I've already made my argument as to what kind of reads we can get from an Enigma flip. Detractors need to do the same about the other wagons to convince a majority that your target is better than Enigma.

Now you're expecting me to defend myself with hypothetical "I think I'd do this and that"'s? This is getting hilarious.

Oh I don't expect you to defend yourself at all. I know you'd jump on a Mason wagon opportunistically because you brought up the desire to test it in the first place, only "realizing" that it was a bad idea after half the town rebuked your idea.

The important thing isn't to convince YOU that this is your plan, but to convince everyone ELSE that this is your plan so that we can keep an eye on your actions and the motives behind those actions so you can't slip away under a thin veil of trying to look "protown" by lynching the only two claimed power roles in the game.

If it wasn't because I - for reasons that

ONLY I

pointed out - find it fundamentally suboptimal for scums to claim Mason, I'd vote you for being so incredible illusory and anti-town. Having to deal with your stupidity at this point is becoming tedious - you fail to acknowledge the fact that you're tweaking your entire perception of events in this game to fit your newly acquired idea of my encouragement of discussion being a scum desire. As previously mentioned, this stems from your inability to comprehend that what may be optimal from your local vantage point isn't optimal from a global vantage point - that is, although discussing the possibility of you being scum is not optimal for your own win condition (even as town), it can easily be optimal for town as a whole to discuss. I'm beginning to have little faith in you being capable of understanding this at any point in this game. Therefore, I'm inclined to simply leave you be with your delusions and have you learn from your fatal mistakes once you - one way or the other - gets confirmation about my true alignment. Just keep in mind that I countless times pointed out how your reasoning is flawed and why it should be avoided, and you may end up learning something from this game.

All you've done so far is make excuses as to why certain players aren't scum. Ironically the very same players I have in my scum pile.


So let me break it down for you real, real easy.

The fundamental reason why you are no longer the most protown player in my eyes is BECAUSE I know what my alignment is, and I see scum for who they are. When I see someone like yourself come along and have the exact opposite position of myself, having town reads on those who I think are scum and having scum reads on those I think are town, it is ONLY logical for me to believe you are not thinking from the same town mindset as myself. Therefore, your alignment becomes skewed. Because you have failed to explain why YOUR reads are more logical than MY READS.

All you've done is try to tear down my positions as being "Lol, you trust those who believe the Mason claim". When I have posted ALOT more analysis than that concerning why I believe whom I believe to be scum and town.

So you may say I am stupid, but the ignorance lies on YOUR shoulders, because you've dismissed everything I've had to say based on just the assumption that I'm being delusional.

You want to complain about having to repeat yourself about how my views are skewed? Then I guess I'm going to have to tear my hair out if I have to explain to YOU one more time that lynching a claimed Mason was always a bad idea because the other Mason will just get killed and we'll be back to zero information Day 4.

So stop trying to defend your reasoning as if considering a Mason Lynch is this great Protown idea. It's not. It's failsauce in a jar. And I'll gladly mail it to your door with a postage stamp that says "Now with 50% more Fail!".

[buldermar]

So tell me, how has the most anti town presence this day phase (Maenara) been able to convince a once bastion of protown logic such as yourself to join in on such a pointless, OMGUS filled tunnel wagon? What makes Dividizzle the scummiest person in the game, and not just yet another baseless policy lynch along the same lines of Pirate Mollie and Shinori?

If you're gonna lynch a dude for fence sitting, lynch NJAC. If you're gonna lynch a dude for not contributing, lynch Numbers. If you're going to lynch somebody because of a perceived scumslip, not only has Enigma made such a slip, but he's paraded the slip around for the past two weeks with such carelessness that he's stopped even bothering contributing to the game. Instead just reserving himself for posting one liners and spam because he now knows he's no longer expected to contribute to look town, and can afford to be as distracting as he wants to be because people like yourself will make excuses for him as to why it's not scummy.

For one he is conveniently going along with the whole scum-slip idea that is Enigma and he's been fence-sitting essentially the entire game.

[buldermar]

Oh but his complete 180 in strategy since the last night phase isn't scummy at all right? Please, cut the bullshit and lynch the scum already.

I don't find it scummy. I find it to be a sign of lack of motivation due to the nature of the players in this game.

[Smashbard]

Progress! Thank you! Now if you would be so kind, tell me why lynching Dividizzle is going to have a better chance at finding scum than Maenara or Enigma. Particularly, what reads become clearer upon a Dividizzle lynch? If he's town? If he's scum?