A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Zdenek]

1. Your analysis was based on a misrepresentation of what I was saying, and I was right about Feysal, so standing behind this is just bizarre.

2. I said that I don't think that bbmolla's claim clears him and that there are much better lynches. Are you saying that you disagree?

3. You have literally never accused me of having an akward approach until now, and that is stupid accusation anyway. What are you talking about? If it's about the meta points, I am saying that your argument is wrong because I am not asking you to explain your arguments, and on top of that, your use of meta is alignment irrelevant. If it's about somethings else you're going to need to clarify.

4. What hypocrisy are you talking about and yeah, I'm pretty happy voting for anyone I think is scum at this point, which isn't scummy at all.

[Zdenek]

>Give analysis on one of zde's posts
>He uses the fallacious logic of saying that because I did not give a specific example of a point raised against him in a prior post the analysis I just raised is invalid.

Also: cherrypicking

Cherrypicking? LOL. We are in the middle of a discussion, how is the cherrypicking?

As for the rest, you seems to think that there are reasonable points that have been raised against me. I've already suggested that you should give an example. I don't think that there are any. As for your previous comment, it is totally invalid.

I think that every point that's been raised against me is stupid or false.

Honestly this feels like a rather constructed thing to say. Its so over the top and blantatly arrogant it feels like it was made with the purpose of cementing the concept of a hard-headed character. It doesn't feel rooted in reality. Is Zdenek that disconnected? I say no. Speaking from personal experience, this is just the sort of thing I'd say as mafia.

If it's so over the top, arrogant or not rooted in reality, it should be easy for you to find examples to back up your previous stance, but there aren't any here. It's completely devoid of content.

[Thor665]

1. My point is based on an aspect of your meta we disagree on, not a misrep.

2. I said that I do think BBMolla's claim clears him.

3. I called you out immediately when you flopped onto me - it was an awkward transition and was blatantly omgus to me calling you out for ducking addressing the AV situation while sideline cheering other wagons.

4. The hypocrisy would be the hypocrisy of supporting wagons you weren't voting while not advancing wagons you were voting.

[Zdenek]

1. My point is based on an aspect of your meta we disagree on, not a misrep.

2. I said that I do think BBMolla's claim clears him.

3. I called you out immediately when you flopped onto me - it was an awkward transition and was blatantly omgus to me calling you out for ducking addressing the AV situation while sideline cheering other wagons.

4. The hypocrisy would be the hypocrisy of supporting wagons you weren't voting while not advancing wagons you were voting.

1. How is god's name does my meta relate to what I had to say about Feysal's meta?

2. No.

he's really not a good lynch at least until we've wiped out the scum team he's clearly not a part of.

3. I'd addressed the AV situation. I'd disagreed with the reasons for why he was being unvoted. You're clearly not reading my posts, and I have only one vote, but more than one scum read.

4. There is no way that I am getting someone lynched while they're being defended by some of the people in this game. Sitting my vote on AVox or Tyene until the deadline would be complete unproductive.

[Thor665]

4. There is no way that I am getting someone lynched while they're being defended by some of the people in this game. Sitting my vote on AVox or Tyene until the deadline would be complete unproductive.

Then why were you doing it?

Also, yes, on BB.

No, you had offered vague whines on the AV situation and did not address the issues at all and then started selling other wagons while sitting on him.

Okay, then you disagree with my call on Feysal's meta, even though I didn't really make one except maybe about how you addressed it.

[Zdenek]

Okay, then you disagree with my call on Feysal's meta, even though I didn't really make one except maybe about how you addressed it.

This makes no sense to me in the context of the discussion. You said

1. My point is based on an aspect of your meta we disagree on, not a misrep.

Your comment there doesn't even mention my meta.

Also, yes, on BB.

Repeating yourself doesn't make it true;

he's really not a good lynch at least until we've wiped out the scum team he's clearly not a part of.

pretty clearly suggests that you don't think he's cleared.

No, you had offered vague whines on the AV situation and did not address the issues at all and then started selling other wagons while sitting on him.

I was not vague at all.

It's true that AVox doesn't fit well as Aegon, still don't see how he's not Stannis and I totally think that MoS would want to setup a solid claim quickly.

Regfan had said that AVox is very unlikely to be Stannis, and his explanation is that it's because of using up the one-shot. I think that this would be a fine use of a one-shot like that.

As far as why I was voting Tyene earlier in the day goes, that's because I still have some hope that eventually I'll change someone's mind as new information becomes available.

[Thor665]

1. I feel like you're being disagreeable to score points not to showcase me being scummy here. I said it was about your meta, you said it was about Feysal's meta, I agreed with a slight adjustment and you then said 'oh, but you said it was about my meta!'. Okay - so then it was about your meta? I'm fine with that too. And my quoted comment *does* mention your meta, it's ruddy right there - use ctrl+F

2. But does it make it false? You did a narrow quote lacking context and suggested it proved I said something I didn't when...no, it didn't. In context it is clear I don't think that BBMolla is pulling that gambit, but I'm saying if he is the *only* time to discuss lynching him is once we wipe out the scumteam he is clearly not part of first. Derp. But, yeah, keep quoting only a part of it and not using the words around it.

3. You still have not explained why MoS would do that as a pseudo fakeclaim (I think you're even saying it's not faked) and it also looks like it stopped a scumkill, and you also didn't call out anyone who had been sold on it, and you also don't explain why you want to hunt a guy who is a PR and proven in your mind not on one of the scumteam which drastically reduces his chance to be scum. I certainly haven't heard the Stannis = AV case from you.

4. Uh huh - why did you suddenly snap on me when I pointed out your sideline selling? Because that was totally scummy of me, right?

[Zdenek]

1. Thor your 3402 is the first place where you suggest that my reading of Feysal's meta has something to do with my meta. It makes absolutely no sense.

2. It does not suggest that you think he is clear. I can't believe that you are even debating this. THe words around it, do not suggest that he is clear either.

3. I think that it's obvious why MoS would do that to set-up a claim. His style of play makes him hard to read, making him an excellent choice for investigations. In this game there likelihood of there being investigative roles other than cop is really high, so he'd probably want a solid claim. I was addrressing everyone unvoting when I made that post, I don't see the need to call out everyone by name. I don't have an AV=Stannis case, but I certainly don't think that he's not Stannis, and I've made my stance on MoS clear - early in the game it was gut based on him making mediocre/poorly timed attacks against people, his VCA was thoughtess, and later it was meta - i've seen him pull the whine and replace out move as scum, and the do very little until pressured and then do something big move as scum too (in this game that was his vca).

4. No what was scummy of you was trying to get me lynched for "not addressing the AVox wagon" which I'd clearly done.

[Thor665]

1. I honestly don't even know what you're accusing me of now, you're the one who said my issue was about Feysal's meta. I said it was about you.

2. Except that it does suggest that. 3229 explicitly calls him not scum, 3233 (which you're quoting a part of) is part of a theoretical discussion of why he supposedly should be dead if he was town but not if he was scum, and I still say he shouldn't be lynched.

3. How would establishing a claim of a roleblocker help him from a cop?

4. Good job ignoring how I have described how you ignored it - two off hand comments as your top wagon of the day shreds around you while you support alternate wagons does not an addressing make.

Also, while going back to research my quotes I realize I did call you super awkward already before today - so add that one to your long list of rants and lies to try to deal with my accusations via a smear campaign as opposed to, y'know, the truth and caring one whit what I'm saying except where you can try to twist it.

[Thor665]

Actually I'll withdraw the last point, I called someone else awkward for their flip about me while discussing Zdenek.

[Magua]

Holy Jesus Christ, the last three pages of Zdenek/Thor back-and-forth were just physically goddamn painful for me to read.

Zdenek, Aurorus, you both have said that you're willing to vote Timeater, so can you please just go ahead and do this? kthxbai.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Can someone explain to me why Regfan is conftown? The whole double-voter thing aside.

^scum


quit bickering and lynch another scum
seriously, you don't have to make this so incredibly difficult for me all of the time.

[Thor665]

It's only being incredibly difficult if Zdenek is really town.
Otherwise you're making things incredibly difficult for me.

[Eddard Stark]

Day 5, Votecount 17

Thor665 (2) - Minimum, Zdenek

Timeater (6) - Magua, Plums Yo Mamma, kortul, Regfan, Regfan, Shinori

Zdenek (4) - 4nx3ty, Thor665, Pandora, Timeater
AurorusVox (1) - BBmolla

Not Voting (2):

Tyene Sand, Aurorusvox, BBmolla

With 14 alive and 1 living dead it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline

: 25th October at 19:30pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-10-25 14:30:02)

[/color]

[Tyene Sand]

...good grief. I subscribe to the Magua school of thought, but I'm taking it one step further: I'm not reading any of that as long as I can avoid it.

@Tierce

- What about Zdenek? Also can you help me and list all the hard facts / role related stuff that have occured in the game so far? What I mean by that is what people claimed what, as far as actions and all things etc. Since you say you are going to tackle the beast perhaps you could do this for me and add a bunch of links to all the relevant claims and hard information?

So, let me explain how I read this: "Why aren't you reading the other wagon? [Answer: Because I think Zdene is Town and have repeatedly said so.] And be a dear and do even more stuff so you don't have time to go much over me, oh and have I mentioned I like the way you line up facts for ease of reading? You'd never vote me, would you? *puppy eyes*"

No. A pretty list is not going to happen. Do your damn job, this image of being at L-2 and not giving a damn to check things that might help you sort out the game does NOT fit with Timeater-Town. Timeater's opinion is that as either alignment, you don't want to get lynched. The difference is that as Town you need to actually show work to get your scumreads lynched, while as scum you are hoping to wish the wagon away by going "oh look how much I don't care about this it's just fine it's no pressure at all let someone else do it."

So, yes. Good job in making me go into the reading with a biased mindset.

[Tyene Sand]

It seems I have a lot of pent-up anger and feelings of

Justice

about this game. Dornish blood runs hot.

[Regfan]

@Reg/Max

- Whats troubling me about your analysis is of me its completely outside of what I have been doing. Re-assess your town reads and take another look at my behavior. I've been really busy. Notice I've been barely posting on the site, if at all. This is a huge difference from the normal timeater. I haven't even gotten around to playing xcom ;-;. Read Behind The Maiden - you know Tammy and I loathe each other. I dont see how that is outside myself at all and I dont see how thats enough to jusitify any sort of read on me. You usually can read me so easy its no problem and we never clash. This isn't the case this game and its troubling me alot.

I know you've been busy but that doesn't change the fact that your replace in 'claim' 'oh its been claimed' 'i towntell hardcore' is forced and the carry on from that was you insisting Tammy was mafia for reasons I can't comprehend then having no reaction whatsoever to her flipping town. (And I know you loathe Tammy, thus why in my previous post I said your aggression and hatred back and fro with her was genuine but that's the only thing so far by you that I can see matching your town meta). But lets look at it another way, you're stating AV is 'lurking' after pressure dropped on him, stating that you find him scummy for it despite him actually posting quite a lot in the 24 hours before you post and also stating that he's planning rl honeymoon and other rl busy things, so him being busy and inactive due to rl obligations is a scum-tell but for you it's not? It's a stance that makes no sense coming from your point of view if you're town. Literally none and your scum-hunting and town-hunting this game has been all over the place, there's no thought process I can follow. In mafia behind the maiden your reads and paranoia while wrong was understandable, here it's not.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

It's only being incredibly difficult if Zdenek is really town.
Otherwise you're making things incredibly difficult for me.

zdenek is really town, thor. I mean, doesn't your wagon feel dirty right now? Does it really feel righteous?

tierce please vote timeater.

[Thor665]

@Plum - my wagon feels scraggly, but the only 'non-rightous' vote I could even call out on it would be Timeater's - and, frankly, if his vote was non rightous he should be voting me as I'm probably the easier one to make happen if it's an attempt to save his backside/

Where do you see it being dirty?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

@Plum - my wagon feels scraggly, but the only 'non-rightous' vote I could even call out on it would be Timeater's - and, frankly, if his vote was non rightous he should be voting me as I'm probably the easier one to make happen if it's an attempt to save his backside/

Where do you see it being dirty?

Scraggly would be a much better term, forget that I ever said dirty.

with reasoning like this:

pretty sure zdenek is scum from how he switches to no longer wanting my lynch after I call him 'leaning town'.

orrr

I'd be willing to go after Zdenek at this point for continuing to push against stupid 'slip ups', or Magua for continually asking me stupid questions about why the obvtown is town.

to Tim's obvious survivalist reasoning, and we have one scraggly fucking wagon.

if his vote was non rightous he should be voting me as I'm probably the easier one to make happen if it's an attempt to save his backside/

I disagree with this. Zdenek won't rip into him like you will. If Zdenek flips town, he has ammunition against you. If Zdenek flips scum, he has towncred. As long as they aren't scum together, it's a win win situation for scum Timeater. Going after you doesn't have the same benefits.

[Thor665]

Why not? Don't you think I have as much chance to flip scum as Zdenek?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

If you flip town, people will shrug and move on; they won't go after Zdenek. If you flip scum, Timeater won't get credit; Minimum and others who were pushing the Thor scum train harder yesterday will get credit.

[Thor665]

But you see him able to get credit off a Zdenek scum flip?

[4nxi3ty]

the case on zdenek as i see it:

>want him to explain his read of me and contradict his autolynch regfan statement
>no response

NOPE!

I explain my read on you in Post 3292.
I explain my issue with Tierce and Regfan here:

uhh yeah. your lack of response was why i went into more detail and placed a vote.

It wasn't until after my vote that you started to explain and interact with me.(and you haven't really explained your read of me past the point of mjaye made a scum post and then I changed my mind to her looking town; aside from some throwaway comment about my back off on thor looks like there is connection between us, which you never really followup on.)

First of all, this was all bullshit, and my analysis of Feysal was awesome and exactly right.

leaning on the feysal lynch like a crutch for towncred.

zdenek is really town

how so?

[Minimum]

How are people not seeing Thorscum here? That back-and-forth with Zdenek was undoubtably an intentional distraction/waste of our time.