Marketplace Mafia II - Game Over

[Magua]

Vote Count 1.10

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Seanald (8): BBmolla, SlumberPartyBois, MagnaofIllusion, Gentlemen Bastards, Pitty, Tazaro, greygnarl, Salamence20
MagnaofIllusion (2): StefanB, Phillammon
Tammy (1): Elmo TeH AzN
Gentlemen Bastards (1): Tammy
SlumberPartyBois (1): GreyICE
D3f3nd3r (1): Mehdi2277

Not Voting (6): Guille2015, Voidedmafia, D3f3nd3r, Eidolon, PeregrineV, Seanald

Deadline is November 12th, at 11:00pm EST (site time).
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2012-11-12 22:00:00)

[Tammy]

I'm going to cry. I had reads and comments written for the first ten pages, and accidentally closed the page I was typing on.

[Mehdi2277]

Town (T to S): Gentle, Ice, Matt, Tammy, (Gap), Voided, Sala, Molla, Gnarl, Sean, (Gap) Peregine, MoI, Tazaro,
Null (T to S): Philla, Pitty, Stefan, Elmo, Eid
Scum (T to S): Guille, Defender

That covers it about right now at the moment. S being most townie while W being most scummy.

And sala you could ask the same for what sean scum is like vs sean town. Him being suspected isn't all that new so I'd at least recommend checking his meta over matt (don't think he's scum now at all, just disagree with him).

Reg he didn't say he voted her for her meta, but for using self-meta. Just because he called her town and scum for meta related things doesn't mean they contradict (self meta being disliked and then swap to thinking about her and unvoting). In fact him unvoting when she was still being suspected even if it was going down a bit is a town tell not a scum tell.

I concede the point of his activity being scummy, but overall I think he's town still.

P-edit: Tammy what's your read on defender? That's the only one I need right now.

[Salamence20]

The thing is I have never seen Seanald town.

[Tammy]

Defender's scum. I said that I was leaning that way earlier. His whatever post it was was just busy work, connected to make it look like he was contributing. His read on seanald didn't make much sense and from that post he should have vote either me r Stefan but voted neither.

[SlumberPartyBois]

WHATS WITH ALL THESE READ LISTS I DONT UNDERSTAND

[Mehdi2277]

Micro 47. 4 page game. Go read it.

P-edit: Would you be willing to vote him then?

[Tammy]

But did you look at the self meta thing he voted me for? For explaining my issues with understanding balance, roles and setup spec. That doesn't really make much sense.

[Salamence20]

Actually Mehdi is now a null read.

[Salamence20]

Correction: Null-town

Seanald still is scum. Lynch plox

[Gentlemen Bastards]

Reg he didn't say he voted her for her meta, but for using self-meta. Just because he called her town and scum for meta related things doesn't mean they contradict (self meta being disliked and then swap to thinking about her and unvoting). In fact him unvoting when she was still being suspected even if it was going down a bit is a town tell not a scum tell. I concede the point of his activity being scummy, but overall I think he's town still.

I'm not following at all, if his issue and the main reason behind the vote at the first place was due to him finding self-meta scummy then he'd have instantly though of the fact that she's used it before (As town I'm guessing?) and therefore not placed a vote down on her however he did and then proceeded to backtrack with it. Also I looked at that micro (Albeit not in great detail, mainly skimmed reading yours and his posts) and I could see some actual thought process and effort put into the game from him, the entire 'Mehdi is town' 'Oh didn't expect him to unvote' was a different sort of attitude then what he's showed here so while I'm getting that you state that his scum and town meta are both 'scummy' or 'bad' I don't see how his play here matches his town-meta moreso than his scum-meta.

WHATS WITH ALL THESE READ LISTS I DONT UNDERSTAND

Think posting of reads lists is optimal play, it allows us to follow someones thought process and what they're thinking which means making is significantly easier to get a read on them and with there being 1-night kill a night maximum and it being possible for town to control it and not scum the downside of "Strong reads being NKed" is less of an issue. And while I understand where you're coming from with your point of "If mafia get town-read they'll become more confident" it actually is a good thing, mafia becoming confident are more likely to make slips and mistakes whereas if they're overly-cautious there's less of a chance of it.

[Tammy]

Can we invest during the day? GI mentioned it, but I thought it could only be done at night.

[Mehdi2277]

Did he ever say the meta he unvoted her was because of the selfmeta (or was that just assumed)? I assumed it was just stubbornness (the most noticeable thing about her play) but I don't know her meta to know what part of it he was referring to.

So yeah pretty much everything in sean's play except thread avoidance can be explained with a town motivation. Other point of him backing off Tammy when she was still suspected being a town tell (assuming tammy is town which I think she is) also applies.

[Voidedmafia]

Bois and GreyICE just need to shut up. Not as worse as that page/2-page crap around BB, but still that was a waste of a page.

ICE is right about one thing: We need organization stat, and oracle claiming would be one step to it (this is also me implying that I don't have it).

Someone tell me why I saw demands like "don't vote Seanald when he's near L-1" going around?

340 puts me at ease on the point of whether or not ICE is 3rd party again. I kinda doubt he'd be so upfront about this if he got that role again.

[GreyICE]

Oh MattP, I remember how badly wrong you were in Revolution mafia.

And you still have the nerve to throw that ego in my face.

You do have some moderately large balls, scumbag.

But only moderately.

"You were wrong about Revolution Mafia and you're wrong now"

"You're scum"

I don't see how these two posts don't call for me being both town and scum simultaneously.

Although it's cute that you are trying to make me feel nervous about my read on you by throwing Rev Mafia in my face.

It's more about how you have an ego the size of the a planet, and the record that would back you up as being pretty much a village idiot.

Just like sticking pins in this ego, bro.

[Mehdi2277]

I understand his ego troubles you, but if you can see him as town the quicker you two become friends the happier the thread will be (reg defended him well and I can as well if needed for any other reason you have to suspect him).

GB is grey still null to you?

[GreyICE]

I understand his ego troubles you, but if you can see him as town the quicker you two become friends the happier the thread will be (reg defended him well and I can as well if needed for any other reason you have to suspect him).

I honestly don't see him as town. I see him as being the hero who will lead the town to oblivion while no one suspects him. All of that hydra's posts are honestly shit.

[Salamence20]

The problem is his "leadership" is more town than scum.

(It's probably allignment null, though)

[GreyICE]

All he's honestly doing is yelling for people to be lynched.

As I've been trying to say, while trying to read this game, is that we need a solid plan. Marketplace Mafia is not like other games. We WILL have a strong concentration of scum. This is because of the singular night kill. If the town wastes our money crossbidding each other (something I encouraged in the last marketplace mafia) then the town will lose, 100%, because we will lose control of the major power roles, lose control of the night kill, and lose the game. We don't have enough townies to "lynch scummy people and let the night actions sort themselves out."

If we mislynch a few times, a few night kills go missing, three townies fight each other over a tracker and get it bid up to $300 without scum interfering, we don't have a solid investment plan, and we're all busy yelling at each other, we WILL lose.

Besides that, I have honestly been trying to scumhunt.

An oracle would be EXCELLENT, and I really want the person with it to claim. The night bids make that role 10x as important as before.

[Gentlemen Bastards]

GB is grey still null to you?

We're conflicted at the moment, I have a weakish town-read on him at the moment, his play here really doesn't match what I know or remember of his scum meta, as scum he pushes weaker and easy targets. The Bois doesn't fit that sort of lynch-target at all and his aggression and suspicion really comes across as if it's based around personally hatred of the players that he's unable to pull apart from general play. I also find his constant spamming that organization is needed as a relatively decent town tell because scum would want to sew paranoia and chaos as it gives them more control over the auctions and wastes town funds. Empire has a weakish scum read on him though, he's saying that it's "based primarily on the characterization of the seanald wagon as a policy lynch when there's been strong cases presented in favor of him being scum and his push on the Bois is weak as hell mostly because "buying into BBmolla's" claim isn't scummy in the least and I feel like he mischaracterizes their position re: MoI and himself. It's moreso they feel that MoI and him are tough people to get lynched if scum and his theory that BBmolla is SK fakeclaiming miller is such a reach". But we're talking it over right now and I think he's starting to agree with me a little bit or at least I hope he is by now.

I honestly don't see him as town. I see him as being the hero who will lead the town to oblivion while no one suspects him. All of that hydra's posts are honestly shit.

I'm asking you at least to trust me that you're reading them incorrectly here, they're by far one of my strongest town-reads if not the strongest at the moment and I'd much rather you focus energy and time looking at other players and letting me know your thoughts on them.

---

If we don't get an oracle claim by the time that everyone has posted it might be beneficial to assign a few things for the upcoming auction without knowing what will be up there. That being if we have 2-3 people bid on negative utility items and then claim them tomorrow the likelihood that we'll have town vs town bidding raising that price to a crazy level will drop. At the same time we should have someone bidding on oracle throughout the game and claiming the information in their first post the next day, a volunteer for that would be worth it. Everyone else should either be making a shot at getting something like cop, doctor, night-kill, roleblocker or investing their money so they can win it in future nights. I don't think it's a good idea to advertise who's going to be bidding on night-kill or anything like that at this point as if scum have the current night-kill it'll just lead to someone winning it and dying.

[Tammy]

Bah...I don't have the heart to remake that post right now. I've caught up, but have promised content elsewhere too tonight and am exhausted. I promise promise content tomoorw.

Regfan - I feel like im being so contradictory even in my own head. I can, of course, get reads within 24 hours. You know I play on a site with 32 hour days. You still never see reads lists from me that early. And I gave a few reads already, you just keep ignoring them. Sometimes I do have good reads and sometimes I don't, but what I'm more frustrated with is that the game hasn't been going on that long and it feels like your acting like weeks have gone by and I haven't provided content.

Regarding grey ice - I'm nowhere able to give him a town read right now even though I really really want to. But he fooled the fuck out of me in mafia behind the maiden and I always feel a sense of paranoia when that happens. However his self meta on bussing seanald if they were partners read pretty genuine, and for how hell defend someone you should look at closed normal where he got pissed off when we lynched delta wave, who was scum that I'd been bussing. It reads similar to here.

Okay, I will recreate my reads and comments tomorrow.

VOTE: d3f3nder

Will also vote seanald but he's too closets a lynch at the moment, and defender needs some attention paid to him.

Also so does Elmo. Did he really walk in and go "whats up with a seanald lynch" nd walk out with no more content whatsoever?

[GreyICE]

I honestly don't see him as town. I see him as being the hero who will lead the town to oblivion while no one suspects him. All of that hydra's posts are honestly shit.

I'm asking you at least to trust me that you're reading them incorrectly here, they're by far one of my strongest town-reads if not the strongest at the moment and I'd much rather you focus energy and time looking at other players and letting me know your thoughts on them.

---

If we don't get an oracle claim by the time that everyone has posted it might be beneficial to assign a few things for the upcoming auction without knowing what will be up there. That being if we have 2-3 people bid on negative utility items and then claim them tomorrow the likelihood that we'll have town vs town bidding raising that price to a crazy level will drop. At the same time we should have someone bidding on oracle throughout the game and claiming the information in their first post the next day, a volunteer for that would be worth it. Everyone else should either be making a shot at getting something like cop, doctor, night-kill, roleblocker or investing their money so they can win it in future nights. I don't think it's a good idea to advertise who's going to be bidding on night-kill or anything like that at this point as if scum have the current night-kill it'll just lead to someone winning it and dying.

I'll agree with you, provisionally for now. Simply because it doesn't actually matter if you two are scum together, our chances of winning go up if we're organized, and if you two want to do this this early in the game, more power to you.

Unvote

So your suggestion is that basically we split players into pools if we don't have oracle? Like:

Negative Utility Pool
Investigative Pool
Defensive Pool
Night Kill Pool
Random Utility powers Pool

That sort of thing?

And have players basically decide on their own how to bid in their pool or whether to just invest (which probably about half the town should be doing at the moment anyway?).

It's not terrible at all.

Also, the advertising has been redesigned based on my suggestion (literally. It's exactly my suggestion). That means its actually relevant. What shall we do about that?

Double post deleted.

[GreyICE]

(My computer is doubleposting for some reason. Second time today its happened. Mod, please delete that)

[BBmolla]

Kill submitted. Done waiting.

[SlumberPartyBois]

Did you submit it for GreyICE, MoI, or Seanald?