Open 456: Faith Plus One [Game Over]

[shos]

I specifically said that I do not think that he is town, I think he is null, like 10 times, are you reading the thread?

what part of bla bla is not scummy? that is easy. basically, it is scummy only because aether flipped town. point is that in the latter part of D1 it was not CE who pushed the aether lynch. so yeah, you can call her scummy for

not unvoting

, but aether really did bring it upon himself, in the latter part of D1 he acted horribly as town. it sounds like you're trying to find blame for our mislynch, and are voting CE for not unvoting. that is not a case for me to vote.

dat policy lynch paragraph, I have no idea what you're trying to say. I'm not PLing furc, not at all. on what policy would you say taht?

how is it the leading wagon? seriously? this is what you use to support your case? if you play mafia long enough you'd know that 'everyone does/thinks that' does not make something true, and in fact, it makes it likely that some of those everyone is scum. Baseline said he was voting out of PoE which is legitimate. I don't remember why Radelle is voting. and you are plainly scum. it's that easy, lol. the fact taht 'nobody thinks she is town' does not make her scum. if most of the other players agreed with you you'll have much more than 2 votes with you, you know. it appears you don't, so I'd go with you're plain lying now to...well why the fuck are you even doing this, even if you're right that doesn't mean anything, as I said before. crap, crap, cappity, crap. and that appeal to experience really doesn't help you. 'oh! two experienced players(which are alts here, lol, so even that) say X! they must be right and not scum both!!'

-_________-;;;;;;;;

1) I have never said that furc tried to policy lynch. not once. le HUUUUGE misrep.
2) this is no reason to vote you, this is reason to not vote CE. I am no sheep.

"Even the ones who are good at the game tend to screw things up when they play like that." what does that even mean??

and "setup 101" means claiming coming D2 if cop is alive???? tell me, ffs, why, where, etc etc, elaborate as much as you can, and also tell me why it means that tomorrow we automatically massclaim?? what possible reasons to both FHs claiming do we have???


"two of your three town reads and two of your three null-town reads say im right"
...alright, riddle me this. I have three town reads: DG, Baseline, and Buldermar, each to their own degree. of those, Baseline is the only one following you. Now, other than them, I have SIX people who I might call null; of them, Radelle is the only one following you.

the fuck; what?

[shos]

*sigh*
For what it's worth, Have you thought what we're going to do if city is lynched and flips scum? once again assume someone who isn't a major deal in the game is killed at night.

[buldermar]

Oi, how'd I get prodded?

I've been keeping up, the busy nature of the last two days (between classes, work, and the junkie-like high of election day) has suppressed my posting.

I'm really torn (in general) right now. My position on Shos remains solid, but I'm having a hard time putting together a cogent case on him because his activity tends to be a lot of fluff and volume, with the substance hard to pin down without a lot of effort, which I haven't been able to devote. On the CityElectric/RainbowDash dichotomy, I'm uncertain. I have a strong implicit mistrust of RainbowDash given her predecessor, but her case on CE has some merit. That said, I have a hard time seeing CE-scum being dumb enough to respond to a serious case so sullenly. Scum tends to fight cases against them, either directly or indirectly (i.e. amping up Townishness). Town tends to give up. Declan continues to be hard to read, and greygnarl's on my radar for being kind of sketchy lately.

I post a (in my own opinion) fairly complex case against DG and you simply ignore it entirely? For someone like you, this looks scummy, as you're well capable of comprehending the points I'm making.

[buldermar]

I have a hard time seeing CE-scum being dumb enough to respond to a serious case so sullenly. Scum tends to fight cases against them, either directly or indirectly

This.

abut me: I'll be okay if you just name the number of the post and what's scummy in your eyes in it, and I'll search for it myself; I should have plenty of time tomorrow until the evening.

~~~
Bulder, I've reread your case against DG in post 483. I agree, you know, I do. but question: what made you think that rainbow is his partner? I'm all for killing rainbow - don't get me wrong, even more so than DG - but you just listed him in the last line of the post with no reasoning. since rainbowscum seems to be a concensus of some players indeed(perhaps except for abaddon iirc), I couldn't help but wonder if you're adding this to the recipe just to get the others' good side along with you. so please do tell: are those two reads connected in your opinion, or are they completely independent of each other?

if it's the first, elaborate; if it's the second, I support rainbow dying first, come join me there.

They are related in that rainbowdash replaced Furcolow, and the alignment of the slot remains the same.

[Rainbowdash]

and "setup 101" means claiming coming D2 if cop is alive???? tell me, ffs, why, where, etc etc, elaborate as much as you can, and also tell me why it means that tomorrow we automatically massclaim?? what possible reasons to both FHs claiming do we have???

Seriously? You dont get why the cop should have claimed today if they were alive? I can understand the "both FH claim D3" confusement a bit but the first one REALLY?!? To an extent this is why you are town, you dont think about things or pay attention to things past a level that scum would consider.

"two of your three town reads and two of your three null-town reads say im right"
...alright, riddle me this. I have three town reads: DG, Baseline, and Buldermar, each to their own degree. of those, Baseline is the only one following you. Now, other than them, I have SIX people who I might call null; of them, Radelle is the only one following you.

Ummmm.... did you miss the part where DG is saying they agree with me about CE? So... all but one of your town reads thinks the same thing... and two of your three null reads agree (RC and Radelle)... and you seem to refuse to acknowledge it... and you wonder why im calling you an idiot and saying you apparently arent reading the game when you dont realize where intention to vote is? When all of the ones you think are town think the opposite of you, you REEVALUATE and dont just keep pressing on. Thats compounded more by the fact that apparently the only ones who agree with you are your scum reads. Its funny really, I almost think yuo are just screwing with me because I still think you are town but dont think you are THIS bad of town.

You arent scumhunting. You think something is true and trying to force everything to match that. You call Furc scum for wanting Abbadon policy lynched (WHO YOU THINK IS SCUM), you call me scum for saying something that all your town reads agree with... im almost at the point where im just done responding to you because its just going to start devoting all my time to new intelligence insults.

I would LOVE you to respond to Baseline and RC about CE since you apparently are just going to ignore everything I say.

[buldermar]

Rainbowdash, what about my case against DG do you disagree with?

[Rainbowdash]

Rainbowdash, what about my case against DG do you disagree with?

The strength of it.

Points are there but there is more of a case on CE and Grey to me.

[buldermar]

Could you elaborate on that?

[shos]

@504:no, I do not get it. this is not follow the cop here, the cop has 50% to die EVEN IF we somehow manage to get only one FH to protect him. the odds are that a cop will live to D3 without claiming too you know. even better if one FH dies till then, since the remaining one will target the cop with no wifoms or arguments about whether FHs should claim etc etc, and even if the cop does die the remaining FH remains hidden. if you're going in an all-or-nothing massclaim, you should have probably suggested a copclaim+1FHclaim+second protects first and frst protects cop or something like that, which is once again rather stupid since 50% to fail and we're outting PRs anyway.....there's really lots of room for analysis here, and you just ignored my request to have yours.

you basically just mocked me instead of answering my question. why would a townie with a pony avatar do that. ya know what, disregard the avatar, why would any townie do that. you're just building my case on you for me...

~~~
stop putting words in my mouth about furc, and stop insulting me as idiot town; you just keep repeating stuff, even when they're irrelevant. yeah, so I missed that DG supports you(although he still votes RC so I don't get it) but as I said in post 500 I think: IT DOES NOT MATTER. "all the others think X" is NOT A FREKIN REASON TO THINK X.

AHAHHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA LAWL ROFL OMGWTFBBQ THIS SO FUNNEHCANTBREATHBAH*DIES*LAWL

...

just let me catch my breath here..

...

did she just say that the CE case is stronger than the DG case?

*breath....breath...*

oh man. I'm gonna jus sit and watch how this discussion rolls from now on, kay? 've been typing waaaay too much this game. waaaaaay.

[shos]

just last thing before I shut up:
inb4RDjumpsToSayThatIHadATownReadOnDG...

that town read was based mainly on reactions that felt like town, the whole going nuts and crazy, being all over the place with votes etc etc. so yeah, I've easily removed that read. that still doesn't reach the knees of the scumread I have on you.

[greygnarl]

been neglecting this game. Will catch up tonight.

[shos]

Don't worry gnarl, this guy posted only twice!

hey everybody

I feel like I'm about to keel over, so I can't do anything right this instant. I'll catch up though.

has DemonCore been prodded yet?

I'll get you! Just have to do a couple more things.

[shos]

Also I believe Baseline is due prod.

[Abaddon]

I post a (in my own opinion) fairly complex case against DG and you simply ignore it entirely? For someone like you, this looks scummy, as you're well capable of comprehending the points I'm making.

I've been moving back towards neutral on DG for a while. This isn't a surprise. If you want my opinion specifically on it, I'll look it over again when I get home.

You seem to be tunnelling pretty hard.

[Rainbowdash]

Could you elaborate on that?

I agree that you have a point about him, but at the same time I think that both CE and Grey are a whole lot more likely to be scum at this point so I am not going to vote him.

For why the cop would claim...

They have a guilty or innocent. If its an innocent we check to see if they are a FH or not.

If they are not, a FH claims and stays on the cop while the other FH (also claims to prevent scum from fakeclaiming) protects the first one. If scum want to go for the cop, they have a coinflip of losing a NK and having another alignment confirmed. They cant go for the other FH either which forces them to take the shot at the cop, meaning a 50% chance we essentially have the game locked down, and even if we fail we suddenly have a situation where there are three confirmed town D2 with the FHs both claiming and cross protecting, creating another coinflip of doom for the scum to have to sift through. Essentially there becomes a 75% shot at least one kill is protected and we gain a cleared player. This game wants to play probability, we play probability. Chance cop dies N2 would be 50%, chance FH dies N3 another 50%. So 50% we get a clear or no kill, 25% chance both 25% chance neither without even factoring in double early flip win of a forced win for town (seriously, this game is 25% town forced win if cop lives N1). In a decent-very good-bad loop I like it, especially as it ties three scum NKs down. Its why we massclaim if we only lose VTs tomorrow, with 13 alive initally scum only have five NKs. Its going to break them down to three remaining and two clears, and again on a coinflip they can only kill those two for the remainder of the game strengthening usefullness of correct town reads for the rest of us. Essentially scum have no choice about night actions in 75% of cases with at least one clear (or caught scum) existing.

What I dont get about you is you seem to be happy with your town reads, yet refuse to actually listen to them. Thats half of what town reads exist for, its players you can actually look at and weigh the opinion of heavier. They are the ones that if say you are wrong, you do double check things more. You seem to just say "they are town" and then dont care about anything they have to say, which just is annoying to me since I think you are town but think you are wrong and refuse to acknowldege that you MIGHT be wrong when so far... you havent been right about anything.

[greygnarl]

Reread up to Page 4 and Abaddon's posting is not looking like the kind of stuff town would do.

[shos]

in short: you're being naive. cop claims, one scum counterclaims. two FH claim - one (other) scum counterclaims. the game becomes a mess, 3 people claiming to be FH with no way of proving it, 2 people claiming to be cops, 2 are already dead, and the remaining four have one scum in them, chaos, randomity, FHs cannot cooperate - cop dies, etc etc etc. na-fucking-ive.

[borkjerfkin]

Votecount 2.3

[3] CityElectric (Rainbowdash, Baseline, Radelle)
[2] Rainbowdash (CityElectric, shos)
[1] Declan_giggs (buldermar)
[1] RedCoyote (Declan_giggs)
[1] shos (Abaddon)

[3] Not Voting (Demon Core, greygnarl, RedCoyote)

With 11 alive, it is 6 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Baseline has been prodded.

Deadline: (expired on 2012-11-18 22:30:00)

[Rainbowdash]

in short: you're being naive. cop claims, one scum counterclaims. two FH claim - one (other) scum counterclaims. the game becomes a mess, 3 people claiming to be FH with no way of proving it, 2 people claiming to be cops, 2 are already dead, and the remaining four have one scum in them, chaos, randomity, FHs cannot cooperate - cop dies, etc etc etc. na-fucking-ive.

Website glitched so lost my stuff, but it still only about 1/6 really bad and 1/3+ very good. Again, odds I would love to take. Most cases end up in something like a 3:2 or 4:2 endgame with a confirmed alignment.

Not the time though, but again next two deaths as VT mean we massclaim tomorrow since it either is going to coinflip cut scum NKs or have a fakeclaim out there.

[Baseline]

Just finished working a 12 hour shift, will make dinner and then get to this game.

[Baseline]

Terrible fucking day at work and now reading this thread has made me want to pull my hair out.

Citys reaction towards this whole thing and the 'Vote Rainbowdash for tunneling me!" is god awful, especially given he replaced in less than one real life week ago, she's literally giving no effort whatsoever to even provide anything that comes across as town and if she's serious about 'apologising for lack of contribution D1' that'd be her utmost goal but it's not happening. I need to assign time to sit down and read the other meta scum game she linked, at work all day tomorrow and a golf tournament after and a wedding all day Saturday but should be able to slot it in on Sunday morning / afternoon before my date. Still fairly sure she's scum though.

Shos, you're an idiot and every post you're making is making me give a rats ass less and less and less about your opinion but I'll give you one last chance to win back what you're losing, get of RD and actually vote scum. The argument for Furc-Scum is so weak and essentially revolves around him being 'anti-town' which while I don't disagree with is something that isn't really an alignment indicative tell for Furcolow especially give how he seems to not give a shit about the game to the level where he replaces out him 'voting' before replacing out isn't a scum-tell whatsoever as there'd be no motivation behind doing an action for a game you're not planning on being part of furthermore if anything the manner he replaced out and complained about being attacked 'personally' is somewhat of a town-tell, scum don't take peoples insults to heart as much as town, you'll find if someone says something bad to me or insults me and I'm scum it won't phase me whatsoever and know it's the case with a great deal of other players. Not just that though but RDs replace in and aggression towards pushing City is a big town-tell, how about this, instead of mentioning Furc in your next post let me know why you think RD specifically is scum because I'm very willing to bet a lot he's not and don't give me the "Can't ignore the previous players contribution to the slot!" bullshit because if you're getting even some town vibes from RD then voting him due to predecessor makes zero sense.

In 278 redcoyote says " I make concerted efforts to keep my points concise and easy to understand as town.". And yet i feel when he has been here he has done anything but that. He posts lots of multiquotes and throws in little tidbits but hasnt done any real scum hunting imo. Beyond that his play can be compared very closely to the case on CE. Right down to sitting on his early vote of Aether and sitting there aboard the wagon all the way to lynch, despite listing me as most scum somewhere. And im pretty sure i got to at least L-2 during that time. Very odd.

Alright, lets get some things straight, RC posting in multi-quotes is a null-tell, he does it every game, feel free to check any of his other games if you don't believe me about it. He also throws in little non-game related tid bits to lighten the mood here and there, again it's fairly non-alignment related. "He hasn't done any real scumhunting", I disagree quite strongly with this, think his thoughts and reads have been fairly genuine so mind explaining to me where you're getting the lack of scumhunting from him from. Him not voting you is a scum-tell how? I don't vote scum-reads if I have a stronger scum-read I'm more confident is mafia, compromising is something that I try and avoid or delaying doing until completely needed.

There's a few more things that I want to get of my mind but for some reason I've forgotten them. Bleh. If I remember I'll write them down on a sticky pad or something and come and type them up later. I want to see a shitload more from Greygnarl and DemonCore when I get back though.

[greygnarl]

Pretty sure Rainbowdsah is town mainly due to her absurd claiming idea.

[shos]

Pretty sure Rainbowdsah is town mainly due to her absurd claiming idea.

Wasn't that an exact replica of my idea?:/

Will get the wall on comp not phone

[Abaddon]

Pretty sure Rainbowdsah is town mainly due to her absurd claiming idea.

That's actually a really good point. It's way out on a limb for scum to do.

[shos]

@504:no, I do not get it. this is not follow the cop here, the cop has 50% to die EVEN IF we somehow manage to get only one FH to protect him. the odds are that a cop will live to D3 without claiming too you know. even better if one FH dies till then, since the remaining one will target the cop with no wifoms or arguments about whether FHs should claim etc etc, and even if the cop does die the remaining FH remains hidden. if you're going in an all-or-nothing massclaim, you should have probably suggested a copclaim+1FHclaim+second protects first and frst protects cop or something like that, which is once again rather stupid since 50% to fail and we're outting PRs anyway.....there's really lots of room for analysis here, and you just ignored my request to have yours.

you basically just mocked me instead of answering my question. why would a townie with a pony avatar do that. ya know what, disregard the avatar, why would any townie do that. you're just building my case on you for me...

For why the cop would claim...

They have a guilty or innocent. If its an innocent we check to see if they are a FH or not.

If they are not, a FH claims and stays on the cop while the other FH (also claims to prevent scum from fakeclaiming) protects the first one. If scum want to go for the cop, they have a coinflip of losing a NK and having another alignment confirmed. They cant go for the other FH either which forces them to take the shot at the cop, meaning a 50% chance we essentially have the game locked down, and even if we fail we suddenly have a situation where there are three confirmed town D2 with the FHs both claiming and cross protecting, creating another coinflip of doom for the scum to have to sift through. Essentially there becomes a 75% shot at least one kill is protected and we gain a cleared player. This game wants to play probability, we play probability. Chance cop dies N2 would be 50%, chance FH dies N3 another 50%. So 50% we get a clear or no kill, 25% chance both 25% chance neither without even factoring in double early flip win of a forced win for town (seriously, this game is 25% town forced win if cop lives N1). In a decent-very good-bad loop I like it, especially as it ties three scum NKs down. Its why we massclaim if we only lose VTs tomorrow, with 13 alive initally scum only have five NKs. Its going to break them down to three remaining and two clears, and again on a coinflip they can only kill those two for the remainder of the game strengthening usefullness of correct town reads for the rest of us. Essentially scum have no choice about night actions in 75% of cases with at least one clear (or caught scum) existing.

seriously, I said something, and then he said PRECISELY the same, and he gets towncred for it, what the fuck is wrong with this game

when I was short in words I said: what if cop gets CCed and a FH gets CCed, and rainbow somehow got to decide that's a good thing (?!). well now I can elaborate:

suppose such a thing happens. then what?
we lynch someone else - the real cop dies and one scum gets 'sacrificed'. because of course, the real FHs, both of them, don't know which cop to target at night; if they target the same one(which is 50% to happen) it's a fail, and nobody can coordinate anything because we don't even know which FH is real. what happens in the end is, after the cop dies we lynch the scum who cced, the mafia kill the conftown and we have two pools: 3 who claim VT and 3 who claim FH. of these two groups, there are two scums, on in each group; the odds for lynching correctly in mylo are 1/3; we're plainly fucked. if we nolynch, then scum shoot one FH. if he doesn't die, still stuck. if he dies, we're in a 3v2 lylo, with a battle of two FHs, which if town lynch correctly are both dead by next day, which is again a 3p lylo.

so yeah, I need you to explain to me your analysis.

~~~
will read Baseline in a moment.

@mod, before I forget: I will probably be sort of LA until Sunday.