Open 456: Faith Plus One [Game Over]

[shos]

Also, I'm pretty sure people need prods *again* dammit ><

activity in this game is terrible..

lol in the phone it looked like a much much larger wallpost xD

look, I agree that City's reaction to all this is shit, and that her ISO looks like shit too; but I consistently fail to see how you guys think it is SCUMMY. you may have already said it, actually you probably already said it; so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
My case on the RD slot *was based* indeed on furc's awful play(who, again btw, I don't understand why is looked at so awfully at person - this is the first time I see him doing that), but later as discussion grew and that sort-of-incredibly-lifelong argument with Dashie actually made my feeling against that slot stronger. It is consistent logic, yes, but consistently BAD logic the way I see it; ignoring questions and deflecting(most recent example is the last quote - 508 last line in 524); faulty logic and/or lies; and all that is from memory. I'm not picking my scumread and then fit a case, it's the other way around; and with the reactions it just grew here. trust me, I'm not a person who tunnels, like, ever. I have reasons to vote RD, and I have reasons not to vote CE, and these are completely unrelated.

regardless of anything else, you shouldn't ignore my opinions at all; even if I am wrong, which happens actually more often than not, that does not make me ignorable. I'm a logical person.

you can't ignore the predecessor, yes, I'm saying it. the reason I do is because unlike you, I do NOT get any town vibes from the replacement.

I'll be fine with a DG lkynch and with a RD lynch. worst compromise is gnarl/DC/CE, but these really are bad compromises and I don't wanna join them now.
off to my LA.

[Declan_giggs]

Regarding Declan_giggs

Let's briefly go over the events again:

1) DG reads me as neutral.
2) I prod dodge.
3) Furcolow votes me for prod dodging.
4) DG claims to find my prod dodge "scummy".
5) DG attempts to justify his sudden change of read based on meta.
6) DG claims that I've been doing "bad play trying to cover occassional scum play" despite the fact that I've only been posting a prod dodge since he read me as neutral.
7) DG says he's sold on me being scum.
8) I call him out on his (in my speculation) plan to vote me/start a wagon on me by voting him and claiming that he will OMGUS me soon.
9) As expected, he uses this as an escape route to having to explain his sudden scum read on me, ironically pointing out how he avoided my trap.

You're scum, and Furcolow (now rainbowdash) is a likely candidate to be your partner.

Buldemar, you know that I recently was able to find out your alignment in another game. This information updated my read on you from null to scum in this game, based on comparisons.

I also give you enough credit to have realized you needed to shut the hell up for a while at the end of day 1 to avoid being lynched, because people were ready to in this game just based on what a nuisance you were. So your prod dodging is further evidence of that tactic.

Your timeline falls apart in light of the fact that I have NEW confirmed meta information about you. Bringing up all your posts on site makes your meta readily available to anyone regardless of whether or not we can link to it and discuss it explicitly here. So your sequence of events conveniently leaves out the new information I had on you and makes it sound like it was some new ploy to go meta on you. No, your alignment in another game was information I got and used to sway my judgement here. It could and would have gone the other way if the information I obtained was opposite in nature.

Its popular in this game to say that I have you as a scum read, but I have someone else as a stronger scum read so thats where I'm voting. I'll get back to you. And then if we are ever in another game together you can vote me in that one too because you are still mad about this one.

[borkjerfkin]

CityElectric and RedCoyote have been prodded.

Come on guys

[Rainbowdash]

suppose such a thing happens. then what?
we lynch someone else - the real cop dies and one scum gets 'sacrificed'. because of course, the real FHs, both of them, don't know which cop to target at night; if they target the same one(which is 50% to happen) it's a fail, and nobody can coordinate anything because we don't even know which FH is real. what happens in the end is, after the cop dies we lynch the scum who cced, the mafia kill the conftown and we have two pools: 3 who claim VT and 3 who claim FH. of these two groups, there are two scums, on in each group; the odds for lynching correctly in mylo are 1/3; we're plainly fucked. if we nolynch, then scum shoot one FH. if he doesn't die, still stuck. if he dies, we're in a 3v2 lylo, with a battle of two FHs, which if town lynch correctly are both dead by next day, which is again a 3p lylo.

Yeah. You are trolling. I REALLY REALLY hope... since thats essentially

1 in 2 (cops)
1 in 3 (FH)
1 in 5 (VT)
+1 confirmed (cleared VT - if caught scum game is over)

Lynch FH
-if right +2 conf + 50% cop live
-if wrong +1 conf (cop result or fake cop)
Lynch FH
-if right +1 conf +25% cop live
-if wrong +2 conf (cop result/fake cop + fake FH)

So WORST case we go 3x mislynches of PRs (and assume cop targeted first and hit) 2:1 endgame which includes losing a coinflip that otherwise creates 3:1 with a clear.

Yes. I would be thrilled to see that shake down when it means the worst we could do is a coinflip and in the 1/3 chance we lynch right FH its suddenly three confirmed town + a 1v1 so even if cop died right there we suddenly are in an 8:1 with three clears and both FH alive where the FH cross protect, scum have to make that kill so not only do we get four lynches to hit one scum but ALSO have a coinflip of creating a situation where scum have no kill freedom and 25% chance of a situtation where we get a fifth lynch.

So yes.

You are trolling or not thinking.

I break opens. I have a couple of setups down to a science and have gotten setups pulled for breaking them midgame.

[Declan_giggs]

RD, people often have a mindset that they lose if (1) they are personally lynched or (2) a power role is mislynched/exposed to nightkill. Game to game you have to roll with the town/team you are dealt.

[Rainbowdash]

RD, people often have a mindset that they lose if (1) they are personally lynched or (2) a power role is mislynched/exposed to nightkill. Game to game you have to roll with the town/team you are dealt.

But thats wrong. If somepony is wrong and refusal to admit it hurts my win chances im going to let them know. Its why opens exist - the OPTIMIZED path puts town in a winnable position, sometimes the creators miss the optimal path for novelity, but its always there, needs to be found, and needs to be followed.

[CityElectric]

suppose such a thing happens. then what?
we lynch someone else - the real cop dies and one scum gets 'sacrificed'. because of course, the real FHs, both of them, don't know which cop to target at night; if they target the same one(which is 50% to happen) it's a fail, and nobody can coordinate anything because we don't even know which FH is real. what happens in the end is, after the cop dies we lynch the scum who cced, the mafia kill the conftown and we have two pools: 3 who claim VT and 3 who claim FH. of these two groups, there are two scums, on in each group; the odds for lynching correctly in mylo are 1/3; we're plainly fucked. if we nolynch, then scum shoot one FH. if he doesn't die, still stuck. if he dies, we're in a 3v2 lylo, with a battle of two FHs, which if town lynch correctly are both dead by next day, which is again a 3p lylo.

[image cut]
Yeah. You are trolling. I REALLY REALLY hope... since thats essentially

1 in 2 (cops)
1 in 3 (FH)
1 in 5 (VT)
+1 confirmed (cleared VT - if caught scum game is over)

Lynch FH
-if right +2 conf + 50% cop live
-if wrong +1 conf (cop result or fake cop)
Lynch FH
-if right +1 conf +25% cop live
-if wrong +2 conf (cop result/fake cop + fake FH)

So WORST case we go 3x mislynches of PRs (and assume cop targeted first and hit) 2:1 endgame which includes losing a coinflip that otherwise creates 3:1 with a clear.

Yes. I would be thrilled to see that shake down when it means the worst we could do is a coinflip and in the 1/3 chance we lynch right FH its suddenly three confirmed town + a 1v1 so even if cop died right there we suddenly are in an 8:1 with three clears and both FH alive where the FH cross protect, scum have to make that kill so not only do we get four lynches to hit one scum but ALSO have a coinflip of creating a situation where scum have no kill freedom and 25% chance of a situtation where we get a fifth lynch.

So yes.

You are trolling or not thinking.

I break opens. I have a couple of setups down to a science and have gotten setups pulled for breaking them midgame.

Wait, what does this have to do with the current game? The cop is dead, you know?

[greygnarl]

Are you guys really theorizing about whether or not this setup would've been breakable if absta lived? It turns out that he's the cop and he's dead so yeah.

pedit fuck you CE

[Rainbowdash]

Are you guys really theorizing about whether or not this setup would've been breakable if absta lived? It turns out that he's the cop and he's dead so yeah.

pedit fuck you CE

He started it.

Also just vote him, all he does is flit back and forth between active lurker and lurker lurker.

[RedCoyote]

Rainbow for tunneling on me and not really doing anything but attack me.

Sorry, City. I very much dislike this vote. buld probably would've been a better target in my eyes, but I feel like your Rainbow vote is misguided. I think you could've put a little more effort into this if you actually felt this way. Otherwise I feel it's just a bit of a cop out.

---

There is no such thing as my complete lack of explanation for my DG vote, only a complete lack of your comprehension of it. You're the second person to insinuate that I did not elaborate on my reason for voting him. Do I need to repeat myself because a new day started? It's all in my ISO.

So, basically what you're telling us is that you don't intend to show any dynamism whatsoever? You'll just vote Dg indefinitely until one of you are dead?

---

best town read votes second best town read with awesome case.

I don't particularly care for it. His ultimate conclusion is Dg is scum for getting on his case for lurking and for OMGUS (even though he hasn't voted buld in I don't know how long). It's basically a lot of words to say a very couple of simple, crappy points (which is par for the course in the case of buld).

seriously you think it was bad? is there, realy, ANYONE here at all who thinks the aether lynch was bad? :S

Nope. Hindsight is 20/20. Rainbow can't see it from the same perspective we did, but we don't need to fight that battle again.

That being said, I don't see how you can continue to defend City. Further, I think you may be letting buld pull the wool over your eyes a bit.

I'mlike 70% null on her you can call her that way, and 20% scum.

You're being too generous, I think. I let her go through D1 without much pressure, but she's taking advantage of the situation at this point. I don't expect her to start building walls, but I expect her to stick her neck out a bit more. I think she's jumping on Rainbow moreso for him being the Fur slot. I think she's stagnant and I think she's trying to play hands off.

---

Seriously? You dont get why the cop should have claimed today if they were alive? I can understand the "both FH claim D3" confusement a bit but the first one REALLY?!? To an extent this is why you are town, you dont think about things or pay attention to things past a level that scum would consider.

Ugh, here we go... theory arguments.

I wish y'all would stop arguing with one another. You both are town.

Vote: CityElectric

[borkjerfkin]

Votecount 2.4

[4] CityElectric (Rainbowdash, Baseline, Radelle, RedCoyote)
[2] Rainbowdash (CityElectric, shos)
[1] Declan_giggs (buldermar)
[1] RedCoyote (Declan_giggs)
[1] shos (Abaddon)

[2] Not Voting (Demon Core, greygnarl)

With 11 alive, it is 6 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Shos is tentatively V/LA until 11/11.

Deadline: (expired on 2012-11-18 22:30:00)

[shos]

You are wrong but ill get dat endgame

Ce wtf is this. Ive had enough. U play like ur ignoring the game condistently, im fone defending dat crap

[\vote]citywlwctric[/vote]

I am counting this as a vote. --bork

[CityElectric]

Fine, I hoped I could avoid this crap, but here goes. I claim Faith Healer. I protected Radelle N1.

[borkjerfkin]

Votecount 2.5

[5] CityElectric (Rainbowdash, Baseline, Radelle, RedCoyote, shos)
[1] Rainbowdash (CityElectric)
[1] Declan_giggs (buldermar)
[1] RedCoyote (Declan_giggs)
[1] shos (Abaddon)

[2] Not Voting (Demon Core, greygnarl)

With 11 alive, it is 6 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Shos is tentatively V/LA until 11/11.

Deadline: (expired on 2012-11-18 22:30:00)

[RedCoyote]

Grrr... I don't believe her, but I don't know if I have the balls to hold my ground. Let's see a breadcrumb, City?

[CityElectric]

Can I get a tl;dr of the day? The walls are so unappetizing.

Agreed, my brain can't process that.

I think the main arguments against me I've seen are me doing nothing D1 and me having the most common scum and town reads. I do apologize for my D1 play, I can do much, much better than this. I'll promise to better my life after this post.

F

or once, I need to stop reading on my iPod...

H

ow the game started didn't help as well.

The having common reads thing is a bit damned if I do, damned if I don't. If I come out and say Radelle is scum, I'll be seen as scummy, but if I say furc is scummy, I'm scum too. There is a reason those players are common scum and town reads, so what's the problem?

Anything else I missed that was in the walls?

The bolded letters spell FH, Faith Healer. I avoided crumbing on D1, in case scum picked up on it and NK'd me.

[Abaddon]

That's really, really weaksauce. Not sure if I buy it.

However, scum will either kill her or claims towards endgame will out her. I suggest we put a tag on her and let it go

for now.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Shos is a superb candidate for death. I would also not weep to say goodbye to RainbowDash or GreyGnarl.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote

Thinking about it.

[Rainbowdash]

Its a really really really weak claim, especially since it came day two and not day one. I have a hard time thinking that when Furc got freaked out over the town/townie thing that CE wouldnt have put out some sort of a breadcrumb, especially when a FH dying N1 is far from an ultra bad thing in this setup. It just seems like a natural time for something to be put out there or at least alluded to heavily due to reactions, even if putting something out there is unintentional.

Still pondering over one thing in particular here. Gut is telling me its a fakeclaim though.

@grey - How much experience do you have, particularly in opens.

[Declan_giggs]

Why did you protect Radelle, City?

[buldermar]

I post a (in my own opinion) fairly complex case against DG and you simply ignore it entirely? For someone like you, this looks scummy, as you're well capable of comprehending the points I'm making.

I've been moving back towards neutral on DG for a while. This isn't a surprise. If you want my opinion specifically on it, I'll look it over again when I get home.

You seem to be tunnelling pretty hard.

I think I'm wary of all players but am currently focusing primarily on my case against DG. I'd like your opinion on it.

[buldermar]

I agree that you have a point about him, but at the same time I think that both CE and Grey are a whole lot more likely to be scum at this point so I am not going to vote him.

This is not elaborating on it, you're essentially repeating yourself.

1) What point do you agree with?
2) What point do you not agree with?
3) Why do you think that both CE and Grey are a whole lot more likely to be scum?

[buldermar]

Pretty sure Rainbowdsah is town mainly due to her absurd claiming idea.

QFT, that would be some sick leveling as scum.

[buldermar]

Buldemar, you know that I recently was able to find out your alignment in another game.

@Mod

, this is not the first time Declan_giggs refers to an ongoing game, and I suspect it wont be the last either. Am I out of line in asking of you to either stop all this talk of ongoing games or make a statement that allows for me to also discuss it? I don't want to risk getting modkilled just because you missed all the times he talked about ongoing games when I finally decide to respond to it.

For your information, I have never completed a game with Declan_giggs, so all talk of other games are unfinished games.

[buldermar]

Your timeline falls apart in light of the fact that I have NEW confirmed meta information about you. Bringing up all your posts on site makes your meta readily available to anyone regardless of whether or not we can link to it and discuss it explicitly here.

I'm waiting for the mod to either confirm that I can discuss ongoing games with you or penalize you for continually ignoring this rule.