A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Magua]

Thor has convinced me Plums Yo Mamma is scum.

[Thor665]

Not my intent. i want to convince you that his suspicion of me is poor and shouldn't be listened to.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

So...just gonna keep dodging the discussion then?

I haven't meant to dodge discussion. If you want to talk about the pushing town thing, I guess I can add a little more than I have been. I don't like your push on Zdenek because it's the only significant push you've made and it's probably on town. It's a weak push too, which is double trouble and worse than Zdenek being town and you pushing on him. But you obviously think that you're voting scum (or are going to pretend that you are), and I'm going to wager that you don't agree that the push you're making is weak. So I'm stuck with the Burden of Proof to *show* how Zdenek is town and to *show* why your push is weak, and I don't really see any reasons why I need to establish a good case on you today or tomorrow when we're lynching Anxiety and no one has any problems with that, and enough people's thoughts reflect our own to the point where you could probably be lynched without anyone actually saying why. So the case is entirely for you to feel better and stuff (which is nice and all but I don't have the patience in mafia games to make people feel good), and that's not necessary especially when you aren't even dying a fiery death today. But I'm super willing to rant when my internet gets spotty as hell, so if we go back to the banter without content thing we had going on, that would be cool.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Not my intent. i want to convince you that his suspicion of me is poor and shouldn't be listened to.

if you would like to actually do that, leave me alive for tomorrow and you will get your chance
otherwise we can't control what people do

[Thor665]

I don't need you to try to prove Zdenek is town as that is relatively meaningless to your case - proving that my push (which i have been called scummy for because it's so focused and distracting) is 'weak' would be exciting to me though.

[Thor665]

Even if you can't do that - what do you think of the people calling my 'weak' push distracting and dangerous tunneling?
I would presume you think their reasons for finding me scummy are silly, yeah?

[Tyene Sand]

(Just lynch him already.)

tyene just wants me to stop talking about her and zdenek.

can't believe people have forgotten that timeater is a good scumhunter and was deadon about tierce's tone.

QUICK THROW THE DEAD GUY AT HER

can't believe 4nxi3ty is forgetting that regfan is an excellent townhunter and was deadon about tierce's etc.

Cute, right? How about you got through my games and see how that 'tone' does not make me scum?
How about you go through

this

game and see how my interactions with flipped scum don't make me scum?

...wait, I'm arguing with scum again.


Have been skimming most of the Thor/Nacho. Don't see how Thor expects "we would have reads aligned if not for X" to be a) a scumtell or b) a Towntell. That is not what is being brought against him. I think that his insistence on that is a

really obvious

strawman i.e. he needs rope.

[Thor665]

It is not an obvious straw man when his case on me at that point was 'Thor's reads are really bad and faked'
At that stage pointing out how close our reads are is very applicable and there is no straw man involved.

Feel free to tell me how I'm wrong.

[Zdenek]

already claimed.

i believe magua and minimum are the only ones left so magua is next.

and i don't think it is a good idea for minimun to reveal their ability.

Does anyone understand this post? It bothered me when I first say it, since there is no reason for Anxiety to have this information. The way I am interpreting it is that Anx's scum team has a role-cop, and that Minimum is not on the same team as Anx.

Am I missing something?

[Zdenek]

I see that he saw minimum as an investigative role. I guess he just got more info than he claimed.

[Zdenek]

Opps no that's wrong. I misread.

[Magua]

Minimum claimed a Day ability at the start of the Day.

[Minimum]

#3877 is spot on. Thor, would you say your ability to look reasonably okay coming out of this type of "what's your case; suspicion on me is poor" blather is meaningfully dependent on your alignment?

[Eddard Stark]

Day 6, Votecount 10

Zdenek (1) - 4nx3ty
Thor665 (1) - Minimum

4nx3ty (4) - Plums Yo Mamma, BBmolla, Zdenek, Tyene Sand,

Not Voting (5):

kortul, AurorusVox, Pandora, Thor665, Magua

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline

: 13th November at 19:00pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-11-13 15:00:47)
kortul is V/la

[Thor665]

#3877 is spot on. Thor, would you say your ability to look reasonably okay coming out of this type of "what's your case; suspicion on me is poor" blather is meaningfully dependent on your alignment?

No.

You've seen me as town and scum, and I am quite comfortable with this bit of self-meta.

1. I attack people's cases on me.
2. I tend to focus on one suspect.

Currently I am doing both.
I am being called scummy for both. My hope is to at least use my skills at #1 to force people to open their eyes a bit at #2. Because I do think that Nacho calling my push "weak" is total hogwash, and even if he wants to believe that he ought to have some issue with all the people complaining about my constant push. Now, if he maybe means "weak" as in "strength of case" then I would suggest he doesn't know my meta for jack.

My core point being is that there isn't a case on me except calling me out for things that anyone with half a brain would tend to expect Thor to do as town *or* scum. Therefore the case is dumb and either needs something more, or people need to stop acting like I'm actually a top suspect as opposed to a PoE suspect.

[Pandora]

I keep looking for the popcorn picture but I can't find it. So the current forecast is Anxiety, Thor and Zdenek as scum with some random guy thrown in as a fourth chaser? (hint it's kortul). Probably too easy. It's irritating to be waiting for the scum before lynching, mostly because there's no chance of a wagon his way right now.

[Eddard Stark]

Day 6, Votecount 10

Zdenek (1) - 4nx3ty
Thor665 (1) - Minimum

4nx3ty (4) - Plums Yo Mamma, BBmolla, Zdenek, Tyene Sand,

Not Voting (5):

kortul, AurorusVox, Pandora, Thor665, Magua

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline

: 13th November at 19:00pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-11-13 15:00:47)
kortul is V/la

Prodding BBmolla

[kortul]

I am back home, will catch up and post in the evening.

[AurorusVox]

I'll vote/hammer once Kortul is caught up.

[Magua]

I keep looking for the popcorn picture but I can't find it. So the current forecast is Anxiety, Thor and Zdenek as scum with some random guy thrown in as a fourth chaser? (hint it's kortul). Probably too easy. It's irritating to be waiting for the scum before lynching, mostly because there's no chance of a wagon his way right now.

Do you think Thor and Zdenek are teammates, or opposing teams? Which one do you think is on a team with 4nxi3ty?

[Zdenek]

I've been looking over the game again, and have trying to figure out how to scum hunt using relations on the Aegon side. My current thinking is that informed means that person was aware of their teammates. In practice, I think that this means on day one Feysal was aware of (at least) one other Stannis person, who he could neighbourize night one, and then if they wanted they would be able to recruit him N2 or later. I don't as strong an opinion about how it worked on the Aegon side. The mirror situation would be bvoigt (not informed) was part of the main group and that Salamance (informed) was not. But without Salamance having the ability to contact his buddies, I think this makes less sense than the reverse situation.

[BBmolla]

I was so close to not being prodded anymore

[kortul]

Trip was pretty busy, so had time to reread only Pandora and Minimum. Updated the reads whle catching up today. Since Zdenek is not a likely candidate for today lynch, will reread him on day 6, if both of us will live through the night.

After rereading Pandora, i am again leaning town on him. I like his play on Day 1. Don't like his attack on Shinori, who claimed on day 2 power role that is actually dangerous to scum teams. Don't like his attack on me today, based on twisting things around, it felt like testing water whether i would be an easy mislynch or not. But the thing that makes me think he is town after all is his claim - his voyeur result on night 4 was confirmed later by Minimum, so unless they belong to the same scum faction, his role is true. And given our PRs, this role makes sense as town and no sense as scum. Still believe that watching Shadow on day 1 would be more correct play for checking claims on later days, but that's his decision.

I am leaning town on Minimum as well. Generally like the play on days 1 and 4, still think that defence of Stefan was a town tell, and their check on DCL meta clears them from being Stannis aligned for me. If Ces and Mina tend to bus a lot they still might be Aegon aligned, but the defence of Stefan then would be an overkill. Next is their claim. When i saw it, with farther clarification, i was looking for a possible use of it, if claim is true. Nothing. If it always returns guilty, it is useless. As a day power it isn't trackable by any claimed roles. Essentially it is either tantalizing VT role, or inspired fake claim, with wifom logic which is correct, so i am judging Minimum based on the play, not claim.

@Minimum

- checking Plum today would give you an idea whether you are sane now. If you are town, check tomorrow Plum or yourself (if your role allows that, not sure).

@BBmola

, i am less paranoid now, Nacho explanation in 3804 makes sense. Still, i have a question now - when i mentioned my paranoia about you, you asked whether i "think Aegon has two informed roles", so i assumed that means that your role is Informed as well. But during massclaim you claimed to be Knowledgable, not Informed, so what did you mean by your question to me?

@AV

- in 3744 you mentioned my words from a Day 2. When did you read them, since during the reread you stoped on page 13?

[kortul]

Regarding 4nxi3ty. I had some suspicions about Mockingjaye play, don't remember anything special about 4nx play, except for his opinion flip on Regfan. Later this flip become clear, it was consistent with the information from his claim that Regfan is Cercei, after which i was waiting to see if 4nx would be killed (hoped the situation would resolve itself). The reason is simple - his claim doesn't make sense as scum, and is somewhat inconsistent as town.

If 4nx is scum:
If his faction knew that Regfan is Cercei from the start of the game, i believe Regfan would be dead on earlier days. Which means that they learned it during night 4, and 4nx

has the name cop power

(he claimed after Shinori said he saw investigator that night, without any idea whom he saw). If it is 1-shot, why wait for the night 4 to use it? And why on Regfan, almost conf town by now, instead of simply killing him? It makes little sense. And if it is multi-shot, why on earth there were no cross-kills or sure day lynches?

If 4nx is town:
The 1-shot name cop spent on Regfan isn't something i approve, but it is consistent with his suspicions the previous day. And having 1-shot (if spent) bulletproof allows to wait for the name cop use. Inconsistent is the third power, 1-shot roleblocker, i couldn't pinpoint what's wrong with it, until the explanation from Plums Yo Mamma.

To sum it up - 4nx clearly has 1-shot name cop power, and waiting for a night 4 and then using it on almost conf-town points towards him to be town. 1-shot roleblocker is inconsistent. So far we've seen only goon scum - could it be that our mod put a bunch of roleblockers into this game just as a means to stop a kill, in that case i can see this setup possible.

If i am wrong or missing something here, i am interested in opinion from Plums Yo Mamma, Magua, Tyene, Zdenek and Pandora - ie those whom i think are town and who suspect 4nx. Just read it carefully please, don't skim. Even if you think i am scum (Pandora), think on the logic of the events.

I suspect Thor more than 4nx, and looking at the wagons, 4nx wagon had practically no resistance, while Thor wagon is always somewhere there, but never close to a lynch. So i'd prefer lynching Thor today.

@4nx

- i think you still didn't give a full name of you role, what is it?

[kortul]

VOTE: Thor665

It is night already, i had little sleep on the trip, so off to bed. Have some family duties tomorrow, but should be able to answer or comment.