Open 463: Black Flag Nightless (Game Over)

[JesseSheffield]

Yeah I mean I was referencing all of this:

What is the newcomer going on about?

You should! I'm sure it will be useful for the future.

Oh gosh! I forgot my manners. Thank you equinox for answering my question.

Why are you asking me this question? Did you think it needed further probing? Did you not think the answer to the question was sufficient? Did you not understand the motivation for the question? Help me out here.

Why aren't you asking better questions? And why in this entire wall post did you not mention anything about sixty?

This post owns.

Wow...are you a runner? Cuz if you are, you can probably run twice your normal distance after that stretch.

Also, when I'm playing nice with someone they don't usually call me pedantic.

I feel like there's a buzzword for what you're doing here whatisitcalled? Whatisitcalled? Whatisitcalled?

I'm

almost

always fun to play with. But you know what? You're cute. Tell you what...867-5309...shhh...don't tell anyone.

I don't have a superiority complex, but hmmm, let's *looks at the votes* you're not really one to talk when you're vote's sitting on town...for demonstrating a superiority complex? K.

That’s where my LOL came from. Because to me that all reads as bullshit drama. I would post more from what was directed at everyone but that would be a long wall so I’m just referencing what was directed at me. I mean I don’t care if someone is going to act condescending towards me. Just don’t sit here and tell me you’re going to act like this:

I didn't come here for any bullshit drama. I came here to play mafia with what I believe to be a great roster. So let's just cut this out now.

when you’ve done all that above because THAT is insulting. I’m sorry that you’re a hydra and can’t control each other but I mean how is anyone supposed to play with something that is supposed to be acting as one... acting like that.

Speaking of Jesse, I don't like how she withheld her reads for so long (I understand things change along the way, but it does help others to understand how dynamic your reads are so they can further reads on you), and I obviously dislike her scumread on me, but the feeling I get from her posting and the way some of her posts feel give me a townread. It's not the feeling like MoI or Thor where they act belligerent and make you somehow feel inferior, but there's an underlying terseness that just rubs me the right way.

I know I have pink in my icon but I am a guy. Therefore you can be assured my terseness isn’t from PMSing. Its just genuinely (but apologetically) being irritable.

[Soul2277]

First part in 224 has the same reply you gave the second part.

And can you be more specific on opinion towards sixty's case? That's the main point of debate on them.

~Mehdi

[Cerulean]

Tammy, let's see if I can get my point across.

You came into this game and started being hostile toward Thor and toward Jesse. You were not being assertive, you were being insulting, which becomes even more jarring when you explain your hydra partner's reaction to an insult as a natural reaction. As I said before, it's one thing to try and rile players up for reactions. But scum will also be offended over matters that have nothing to do with alignment. If you call someone stupid, if you act condescendingly toward someone--people will be irked no matter their alignment. As scumhunting tools go, it's quite flawed and damages the game in general because it tends to spill all over the thread.

I didn't say anything as you pushed first Thor and then Jesse, because I know that's what you do and that it can help you read people. However, I also know that you can put up an hostile front as scum, whether or not it's real anger. My issue is that I don't see you taking any definite conclusions from these back and forths. I see you arguing just to argue, and that is a scummy behavior and makes the game unfun for everyone.

I've been restraining myself. My hydra partner is one of my favorite players, and it's fun to play the puppy persona, so I'm trying to focus on the positive aspects of this game. There was no word on my feelings about playing with you, so why do you feel the need to bring that up?

I'm not trying to be hostile, I'm trying to get you to please tone it down. SpyreX asked this of you on Maf.Maiden, you kept doing it--I don't know how effective this request is, but I know you

can

and have done it before, so please try to be less argumentative for argument's sake.

Actually I'm not even being hostile. I'm fine; am I asking questions and pushing some buttons, yeah. You bring up mafia behind the maiden and that was a very different game in a very different time in my life. I probably shouldn't have played mafia this summer as much of the crap that had been going on bled into the game. It resolved itself near the end of the game.

Did I push back with Thor? Yes, it's pretty much the only way you can try to determine his alignment. If you let him he'll just run you over and tell you what he wants you to believe his alignment is and what you should think about everyone. I have a leaning town read on Thor from our interaction. I think our interaction was mostly continued as he was trying to get a read on me.

Jesse is, well, Jesse's special. I had a scum read on him for his first post, but then he wrote about feeling salty about Thor lynching him day one when Thor was scum. That read town to Empire, so I'm not sure. I also was a bit swayed by his start date, but then I looked at his number of posts and he only has 342, which means he's not as experienced as I originally thought, so the jury's out. He seems like he's trying, but I'll have to see what he brings next. He didn't answer my question though about why I didn't respond to a question that was answered sufficiently, which just reads weird considering he came up with a long drawn out theory for why I asked a question and didn't follow up.

Let's see if I can illustrate what I'm talking about:

Hey Thor! Hi! How ya doin? When you get done licking your little boy wounds, us grown ups are going to actually be looking for scum. Care to join us?

What is the newcomer going on about?

These two cross a line. Yes, they are not as aggressive as some other players, and they are not breaking any rules, but it's not helping. You're being demeaning.

Thor seemed insulted I wasn't considering him the towniest person here.

Jesse had just shown up today and voted me for not answering a question or something like that. I had no idea what he was talking about.

I don't really care for the argument between Cerulean and Thor665, as it looks more to be out of ego than alignment.

Noting this for now.

You should! I'm sure it will be useful for the future.

This seems out of line, as I've seen you note things and make quote walls for future reference. Why does Jesse deserve this level of sarcasm?

Okay maybe this is. Struck me as odd.

Equinox - why are you townreading Thor?

Liked how Thor665 pressured PiggyGal15 earlier. There's also some notion about Thor665 maybe not getting into an ego war because why take offense at someone doing something silly when it doesn't concern him and those posts didn't come off contrived, but I think I need to verify that I'm not doing bogus psychoanalysis first.

Cerulean why didn't you respond to this answer to your question?

Oh gosh! I forgot my manners. Thank you equinox for answering my question.

What is the newcomer going on about?

I see you're going to be fun to play with. Although I can't possibly understand the superiority complex you seem to have taken upon yourself given your play so far in this game.

I'm

almost

always fun to play with. But you know what? You're cute. Tell you what...867-5309...shhh...don't tell anyone.

I don't have a superiority complex, but hmmm, let's *looks at the votes* you're not really one to talk when you're vote's sitting on town...for demonstrating a superiority complex? K.

Why are you being like this? It seems you have some sort of vendetta against Jesse. You've been demeaning toward him from the moment he started posting.

He was demeaning to me and I responded with a joke. I don't know Jesse; I don't have a vendetta towards anyone.

Why are you buddying Jesse?

Oh my strong town read on N is gone. I saw him posting today elsewhere and he didn't show up here.

[Voidedmafia]

Quote 1: I don’t agree the core of your explanation is still there. If it is I’m not even sure what it is. I get that you’re agreeing there was an attempt from piggy to scum hunt but I don’t know if you’re trying to say she isn’t doing anything or just isn’t doing anything well. All I’m getting is you telling Cerulean they’re right and then dropping it pretty much.

Do you understand what my case on Piggy was at all? If so, then it should be clear that the core of my point/argument is still there.

If not, then learn it.

Quote 2: I don’t see any depth or real effort into dissecting what was being asked of you. Not saying that you have to but it looks like you just gave a basic, wishy-washy half-agreement.

I wasn't gonna go all-out analysis mode, no, but I did give some pretty concise thoughts on the points I focused on. Saying more than I did felt like it'd be too wordy and fluffy.

Quote 3: Starting with “sorry” (which I don’t feel has a use in mafia)

Apologizing isn't useful? Who didn't give me the memo?

ending with a “well I don’t really like this person but I also don’t really like this person so I’m just going to sit here and continue with that” I don’t find that to have any real thought put into.

As I said, I had already explained my suspicions. That was me just more or less stating who my suspects were and who was the prime suspect of the two.

Quote 4: Well I think that should theoretically completely change your but I mean there’s really no reason why you should if you’re scum because radically changing your view point and then defending it would raise a lot of attention to yourself.

Because him being town or scummy to Soul actually has no relation to

explaining

why Soul thinks that way? The main point was how Soul got the townread, not that the hydra had one.

I mean starting with your vote on Thor the only thing I’ve seen you’ve even admitted you haven’t really looked over his posting closely and... I mean that’s it that’s all I’ve seen from you about Thor. Other than asking “seriously?” If you have a base point it out cause I literally do not see it at all.

Explained now. I'd demand that you read my posts and where that came from, but then that'd be too hypocritical of me.

First part in 224 has the same reply you gave the second part

Oh, sorry. Thought that was referring to your Absta meta-read, not Piggy.

And can you be more specific on opinion towards sixty's case? That's the main point of debate on them

Well, I already explained what I liked about the case and whether or not I thought it was contrived (and I said I felt it wasn't). If you want me to elaborate more on the other two points, points 1 and 2 are touchy-feely for me, not because they're bad--they aren't--but just that sometimes it feels like these kind of overdefensive, overexplaining RVS vote-style posts are kinda hard for me to read as to whether or not its scummy. If Sixty finds it scummy, that's fine, there's another point for her case.

Scumpoints for Cerulean for trying to insinuate that Soul's buddying Jesse (and sorry for calling you female).

[Soul2277]

Oh, sorry. Thought that was referring to your Absta meta-read, not Piggy.

Sorry for lack of clarity (since that's not what I meant). I meant I agree to disagree on piggy.

I also think ceru called sixty buddying jesse not me.

Lastly other main point on sixty is do you follow their reason for voting absta (which they said didn't really reveal much reaction wise and I'd expect more there).

~Mehdi

[Cerulean]

Voided

Where are you getting that I implied soul was buddying Jesse?

Did I ask why my number one scum read, sixty, was buddying Jesse? Yep! That's not an implication, that's my interpretation of their post and behavior concerning Jesse.

[Thor665]

@Thor specify where you said why you brought it up only on him. I do want to know have you ever played with town piggy or town absta (if no then I think I understand).

Not counting at least one ongoing - to the best of my awareness: no.

I'm not really interested in how much merit someone's scum hunting ability holds. I'm much more interested in why they're going about using that method.

I get that and am all about it.
But that doesn't explain how you made the connection - which is what I asked you about.
To re-state: How did his cruddy scumhunting style make you go 'yes, this man doesn't know anyone's alignment!'

Also, when I'm playing nice with someone they don't usually call me pedantic.

What does me being rude do to affect a claim that you're playing nice?

Shallow means I don't think they were actually assessing piggy's motivations. Why would you build a case so son out of rvs without actually trying to determine alignment? Cases make sense all the time, but the case doesn't show Scumhunting motivation from my point of view, rather it shows determination to appear as if scumhunting.

How does it show the appearance of scumhunting but not scumhunting?



Note to self - Post 206

I'm tapping out, I'll finish catchup later.

[JesseSheffield]

Jesse is, well, Jesse's special. I had a scum read on him for his first post, but then he wrote about feeling salty about Thor lynching him day one when Thor was scum. That read town to Empire, so I'm not sure. I also was a bit swayed by his start date, but then I looked at his number of posts and he only has 342, which means he's not as experienced as I originally thought, so the jury's out. He seems like he's trying, but I'll have to see what he brings next. He didn't answer my question though about why I didn't respond to a question that was answered sufficiently, which just reads weird considering he came up with a long drawn out theory for why I asked a question and didn't follow up.

Whoops, wrong. If you’d looked a little deeper you’d have realized I’ve never played with Thor on this account which means I played him on an alt. I’ve got three other alts and I’ve been here since 2008 sooo... that just got awkward. And if you’re going to act like an ass to me what do you really think the chances are I’m going to answer a non-serious question. Also, point out where I got demeaning towards you first... because that definitely never happened. You can't act like that and then expect anyone who's been here for a while be like "oh wtf I've never run across anyone act like this before this is outrageous and I'm going to throw a temper tantrum and play to his game". It doesn't work like that.

Getting a scum read off someone from their very first post... that sounds like a really solid strategy and if you have no idea what I’m talking about maybe you can go read a little harder because it didn’t seem like anyone else had any difficulty understanding.

Voided: I don’t really know if you want me to go back through on the offense on every one of your defenses but I feel like we’ve hit a stand still. If you have any questions I’d be obliged to answer otherwise I mostly stand behind my original opinions. I guess apologizing is alright, I just don’t think its got a place here **just an opinion**.

Thor: What I didn’t see from absta is a hit of logic in “oh here, I can attack this or go with this and make it look credible”. I just see a complete lack of inspiration for taking a solid direction. To me, that looks like he doesn’t know anyone’s alignment and is in general lost.

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, sorry. Thought that was referring to your Absta meta-read, not Piggy.

Sorry for lack of clarity (since that's not what I meant). I meant I agree to disagree on piggy.

Ah, gotcha.

Lastly other main point on sixty is do you follow their reason for voting absta (which they said didn't really reveal much reaction wise and I'd expect more there).

From what I can gather, posts 56 and 62 seem to be their reasons for voting (there is that " " post right after 62, but I don't understand that one). I do follow their points fairly well (I think i commented on the first half of 56 as well, with essentially the same response as Sixty). Looking over the two non-duplicate points again (Absta foisting reading me off on Sixty, though this may not exactly be a point Sixty's using; and the claim that Absta was looking for reactions after everything was over) and adding onto my own, Absta looks scummier now, scummier than Piggy and Thor.

Vote: Absta

[Cerulean]

Jesse is, well, Jesse's special. I had a scum read on him for his first post, but then he wrote about feeling salty about Thor lynching him day one when Thor was scum. That read town to Empire, so I'm not sure. I also was a bit swayed by his start date, but then I looked at his number of posts and he only has 342, which means he's not as experienced as I originally thought, so the jury's out. He seems like he's trying, but I'll have to see what he brings next. He didn't answer my question though about why I didn't respond to a question that was answered sufficiently, which just reads weird considering he came up with a long drawn out theory for why I asked a question and didn't follow up.

Whoops, wrong. If you’d looked a little deeper you’d have realized I’ve never played with Thor on this account which means I played him on an alt. I’ve got three other alts and I’ve been here since 2008 sooo... that just got awkward. And if you’re going to act like an ass to me what do you really think the chances are I’m going to answer a non-serious question. Also, point out where I got demeaning towards you first... because that definitely never happened. You can't act like that and then expect anyone who's been here for a while be like "oh wtf I've never run across anyone act like this before this is outrageous and I'm going to throw a temper tantrum and play to his game". It doesn't work like that.

Getting a scum read off someone from their very first post... that sounds like a really solid strategy and if you have no idea what I’m talking about maybe you can go read a little harder because it didn’t seem like anyone else had any difficulty understanding.

Wow. Okay, so you are not new. Then what's with you expecting a sort of kumbaya game? And how come you're not actually reading people's alignments.

My question was 100% serious, so what was the point of your question to me then?

If you got offended because I asked the newcomer thing, I really have no clue. You voted for me for not answering a question. I had no idea what you were going on about. And now that I am through the thread, I'm even more flabbergasted. It was quite obvious I was responding to things as going along and you tried to make it look like I was ignoring you.

You're acting all butthurt because I wondered what the person whose posts I hadn't read yet was going on about by voting for me because I hadn't responded to something I hadn't read yet? You insulted my play, you might want to remember that.

Now you're behaving badly. I never insulted you. Was I a bit snarky, sure. A little rude, maybe. But I didn't insult you. Sure it's possible to get a scum read on someone from their first post, just like its possible to get a town read. I don't know where the problem is there.

[Cerulean]

Also, when I'm playing nice with someone they don't usually call me pedantic.

What does me being rude do to affect a claim that you're playing nice?

It seems an odd claim to make. If you're playing nice with someone, you tend not to do things that will warrant you getting called things like pedantic as it demonstrates you're doing things to get on the persons nerves or making them not think well of you, which is kind of the opposite thing you're going for when playing nice.

Shallow means I don't think they were actually assessing piggy's motivations. Why would you build a case so son out of rvs without actually trying to determine alignment? Cases make sense all the time, but the case doesn't show Scumhunting motivation from my point of view, rather it shows determination to appear as if scumhunting.

How does it show the appearance of scumhunting but not scumhunting?

[/quote]

It doesn't look to be assessing motivations or alignment. It's more here's what this post says and it's scummy, but not does this post demonstrate scum or scum motivation.

[Sixty]

Why are you buddying Jesse?

Calling you out on over-the-top aggression is not buddying. We are trying to understand your thought process in the interactions you are having and how fruitful you think they are. You still don't seem aware that you are in fact being insulting, but we will leave it to your other head to clue you into what you are doing.

Lastly other main point on sixty is do you follow their reason for voting absta (which they said didn't really reveal much reaction wise and I'd expect more there).

We answered this already:

Sixty how do you flip off absta and to piggy like that. You gave multiple reasons on absta so it feels strange to drop off like that in the next post.

We were voting absta101 to see who would switch wagons if we did that. There were several voices raised against absta101 yet no votes going ----> that way, so we were checking who felt happy jumping off Piggy and onto someone else who was gathering suspicion. Not much came of it.

Assuming you were scumhunting.

1)

Why would scum move from Piggy to absta?

2)

What made you suspect scum were on Piggy's waggon?

3)

What do the results of your 'investigation' tell you?

1) A chance to look active and push a counterwagon for <reason to be read into>.
2) Answering your question as posed, sheer probability suggests itself. Disregarding what specifically you asked, we wanted to see who would jump and why, not specifically drain votes from PiggyGal.
3) The mod PMd us with a Guilty, but we might be Insane, so etc. Looking at the thread, it more or less didn't get acknowledged - Thor didn't say a word, Voidedmafia and PiggyGal mentioned absta but didn't do anything, Cerulean didn't try to tubthump on the wagon, thus frankly as far as reactions go nothing happened.

This thread needs a comb over with a puppy brush. In the meantime, though, the puppy is very tired and needs sleep to grow.

[JesseSheffield]

Wow. Okay, so you are not new. Then what's with you expecting a sort of kumbaya game? And how come you're not actually reading people's alignments.

My question was 100% serious, so what was the point of your question to me then?

If you got offended because I asked the newcomer thing, I really have no clue. You voted for me for not answering a question. I had no idea what you were going on about. And now that I am through the thread, I'm even more flabbergasted. It was quite obvious I was responding to things as going along and you tried to make it look like I was ignoring you.

You're acting all butthurt because I wondered what the person whose posts I hadn't read yet was going on about by voting for me because I hadn't responded to something I hadn't read yet? You insulted my play, you might want to remember that.

Now you're behaving badly. I never insulted you. Was I a bit snarky, sure. A little rude, maybe. But I didn't insult you. Sure it's possible to get a scum read on someone from their first post, just like its possible to get a town read. I don't know where the problem is there.

1. Never said I was offended, insulted, or butt hurt. That was a good play to try to make it look like I'm playing off emotion though. That doesn't really work though when you don't have the evidence to back it up.
2. When you walk in with an attitude without deserving the right to have an attitude you're not going to get any modicum of respect from me. You're not the first or even the hundredth player to try to play that type of game. But when you're like the seventh or eighth person I've run into that acts like that, it gets old and tired and boring.
3. You weren't serious, you just misquoted my reason for voting you, and you aren't seriously reading the thread and responding accordingly. So until you get your act together, you aren't getting any cooperation from me. Because THAT would be anti-town play on my part.

[Soul2277]

Can we just stop this insult argument? Sixty's post last page should be enough to end it.

And sixty I didn't say you haven't responded to it. I was asking voided what he thought of the actual response.

~Mehdi

[callforjudgement]

Vote Count

• Voidedmafia (2)
  : Thor665 absta101
  
• Sixty (2)
  : Cerulean Soul2277
  
• PiggyGal15 (2)
  : N Sixty
  
• absta101 (2)
  : Equinox Voidedmafia
  
• Cerulean (1)
  : JesseSheffield
  
• JesseSheffield (1)
  : PiggyGal15
  
• Not voting:
  (
  nobody
  )

Deadline: Sun 25 Nov, 00:05 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2012-11-25 00:05:00)

)

With 10 alive it is 6 to lynch.

[Sixty]

JesseShef - Yes, we get it, we're awesome. And incredibly cute. absta please.

Cempireulean - Oh good, another voice from that slot. Do answer our question from earlier.

Tammulean - Any time someone uses "buddying" as a term this puppyhalf takes it as a scum claim. That aside for a very brief second, this puppyhalf is quite positive no particularly good will toward Jesse was intended in that post and would love to know how that thought came about. (Cut by myself: etc.)

Soul - People making cases in good faith don't normally ignore the truth when it compromises their comfortable reality.

Lastly other main point on sixty is do you follow their reason for voting absta (which they said didn't really reveal much reaction wise and I'd expect more there).

Oh

do tell

. Go on. See what we did, and what we got, and show us the wonderful secrets we've been hiding. Preferably without lying.

This puppyhalf is seriously /)___(\ this close to barking orders and telling people to shut up and vote who we say to vote. It can only be good for getting the game to go someplace, not to mention everyone's ability to take giant mansions built from quote walls and mud on every page.

Thor seemed insulted I wasn't considering him the towniest person here.

We're insulted you don't consider

us

the Towniest puppy here. u u

[N]

Sorry for disappearing; I started a new job and I'm pretty exhausted. I've tried to read though the thread, and I'm about to comment on things that grabbed my attention, but I'm sure there's stuff I've missed; please point it out. (I also noticed people saying I posted elsewhere; I made a few quick phone posts before work this morning in games I'd just been prodded in (or was about to be) and am doing the same thing now for the next wave. It's a horrible way to play and I don't like making promises about content, but I'll have more time later in the week toward the weekend.)

Oh, and N, they're all wonderful ongoing games that you are in ;)

This is such a cop out. You're saying me wagonning in RVS is a town-tell and when I press for more info on where you got that idea from, you say ongoing games? How can something you've picked up from my ongoing games be a town-tell? You don't know my alignment in those games and if I try and press you too hard you can just avoid talking about ongoing games.

Well, I suppose point b should actually be "I know it's going to continue, so why bother stopping it?"

You don't think there's any way you could stop RVS? How do you think RVS ever ends if everyone just sits on their hands and waits for someone else to end it?

I'm in agreement with my other head that N looks town based on his piggy questioning.

I know this townread is "gone" now because I disappeared, but it was a pretty shit reason for a townread anyway. I was pretty much talking to her about my own meta; that's a towntell now is it? (This isn't just for Cerulean; I saw other people say similar things.)

...Huh. I didn't multi-quote anything later in the thread (or it didn't work for some reason if I did), but I will admit I started skimming when it became walls about meta. If there's something I missed, point me to it!

[Thor665]

Next you do know who thor is right? I called thor normal for a reason. He's a player most are paranoid for so treating it like it's a big deal is exaggerating quite a bit (or you've never played with the mastermind named thor).

~Mehdi

Oh you

Though, question, and I apologize ahead of time. But have we ever played a game together?

Are we sharing names of alts, or not so much?

Answering someone's question, then immediately following with a reactionary question that may or may not really do all that much in terms of scumhunting, it just seems like the appropriate thing to say like,

This was commenting about how he didn't know alignments?

Do you like to try to ask questions that have absolutely no relevance to what you're quoting?

If you were actually reading you would realize that there is relevance there.
Though I agree it doesn't look like there's a connection - which is why I'm asking about it.
I'll admit I'm annoyed that Jesse is shifty in answering it. But the fact that Jesses isn't acting confused by it *probably* should have been a clue. Why didn't you notice that the question makes perfect sense? Are you skimming, or just not reading at all?

I don't know, I just am.

...That's it? Seriously?

Remind me how this is scummy.

Thor seemed insulted I wasn't considering him the towniest person here.

I kinda was - it was very derpy of you. Though mostly because somehow N was more towny than me.

Oh my strong town read on N is gone. I saw him posting today elsewhere and he didn't show up here.

At least you're trending back towards sanity.

This puppyhalf is seriously /)___(\ this close to barking orders and telling people to shut up and vote who we say to vote. It can only be good for getting the game to go someplace, not to mention everyone's ability to take giant mansions built from quote walls and mud on every page.

Since I had to stop and think about who you'd even push on - I actually think this is a good idea. Maybe you should shout out a top two scum reads? That would be sexy.
Also, is the Absta case still the same as when you first made a case on him?

It doesn't look to be assessing motivations or alignment. It's more here's what this post says and it's scummy, but not does this post demonstrate scum or scum motivation.

The interesting thing is I get THE EXACT OPPOSITE read off it. I feel he *is* applying motivation search to the tells. Could we maybe get both of your heads to knock together and explain this read to each other in QT and make sure you're on the same page and then explain it to me in one post with both sets of thoughts in it?

@Piggy
@Jesse

Here's a clue - both of your votes are utterly useless right now. You better start selling those cases like champs or should move to a more useful wagon.

[absta101]

You guys are posting fast, there's so much shit to read.

@Jesse - Wtf is your problem? Stop defaming me.
---

@Voided

also, 5th ISO? So you're just responding to me, is that it?

"Why me!?"

But I know I'm town, yet don't know if you and/or Equi are town.

Explain why I should care about your problem in determining my alignment and Equi's.

psst, it was semi-rhetorical.

Okay, what message were you trying to get across using your rhetoric?

and since you're talking about yourself, its akin to shooting yourself in the foot.

I've forgotten why this was important . Can you explain why you even said i'm shooting myself in the foot.

Um...you just quoted it.

What do you mean?
You were calling me scum yet you never explained anything. Can you link me to your explanation of why i'm scum (before post #147).

That'd be "explaining my read," thank you. Also check 116 (or around there).

No, YOU HADN'T explained your read on "BOTH" of us.

It is?

Go check post #60 (or around there)

[JesseSheffield]

Here's a clue - both of your votes are utterly useless right now. You better start selling those cases like champs or should move to a more useful wagon.

There are zero wagons that have any momentum, literally every wagon is at a standstill. Not just those two.

Back to Cerulean:

I don’t buy

Our Piggy meta research is still ongoing. We've read two of her scum games (namely this one and this one) and they suggest she's playing to her scum meta here (re: the awkwardness in her posting/reactions), but she has a recently finished town game I want to dig into.

this whole business. Saying piggy is suggestively playing to her scum meta is the kind of soft attack scum like to use to throw a little kindling on the fire without being the log themselves. Obviously pushing piggy out too fast would look scummy as hell so Cerulean’s vote sat on absta for 15 posts without even mentioning absta and instead trying to poke holes at different people feeling out a good direction (since the town literally has none).

I really want to vote sixty right now as that case they just made looks pretty contrived and pushing for an easy mislynch. I need to talk to the other head about that though.

The whole case on Sixty is so contrived too. Especially because of their supposed reliance on meta with piggy.

He said he had a town game he wanted to dig into in Post 64. That is the recently completed town game he references that he wants to dig into.

If piggy constantly gets Day 1 attention like they say then probably the smart thing to look at what be how scum reacted to piggy Day 1 and how they reacted in this game but I mean, we never really heard anything about how that research went...

But they know it because they won’t push it directly themselves, they keep prodding others to do the dirty work for them. piggy started as an easy target, its so easy to sit back and say “oh well this person’s case on piggy makes him scum because they’re just trying to fabricate a plausible reason on an easy target”. Its easy to try to find one minor detail and say “that’s scum! This could possibly not make sense and they’re taking the easy way out.” Not to mention the fact that I actually think Sixty’s case on piggy did make sense and did have some merit.

What do you think a out sixty's case on piggy?

Voided - what do you think about sixty's case on piggy?

And yet you make not one comment on sixty or their case on piggy even though you say she's coming off as more honest. Why is that?

And why in this entire wall post did you not mention anything about sixty?

What are your thoughts on sixty?

Cerulean’s entire case on Sixty is built off Sixty’s case on piggy. Which, by the way, Cerulean never took the bother to explain why its scummy. And then when they did finally decide to explain themselves.

Okay, so here is where I really start to have a big problem with this case. You say that meta was a part of your case. I'm assuming you're referring to reversed mafia are you not? I followed that game and re-red your case when you brought it up. In that case you said that piggy was not competent at either alignment. So, you acknowledge that as town she's not competent, and then you chide her for not deconstructing her wagon immediately, which is something that I've only rarely seen in a game, even though she did single out one person for being scum on her wagon and give a reason why. As I said to voided, it was flimsy, but it was still a reason. You're acting like there is none, and that you're familiar with her meta, which according to you is incompetent but then expecting her to be competent.

It looks to me like you are going for an easy mislynch. Your entire case is weak and I'm wondering why you made a case so early in the game, especially before you tried to ascertain motivations. To me it looks like you are trying to assign an alignment to piggy rather than find out what her true alignment is.

Its exactly the type of case I laid out. But now that they’re stuck with this wagon.

Tammy: Stop bitching at others please and thank you. Between Thor and Jesse, you're already making this game a painful drag. It's one thing to try and rile people up to figure out alignments, but at this stage it feels like you're pointlessly hamming it up.

So, did you really just stop in here to toss a little insult my way, and not actually do anything with the game itself. It really sucks you drew a scum pm this game. (I suppose the response to the case could be you, but you have a good memory and would remember writing something in a case so I'm guessing not.). There was no town purpose to this post at all, no matter what way you try to dress it up.

They’re just going to try to fling any flimsy post they can on top of it. Because they can’t change targets now with so much attention to them, it’d look scummy as hell.

Right now my biggest suspects are equinox/voided/sixty

And considering these are supposedly Cerulean’s biggest scumspects, they sure do a lot of unnecessary fighting with players they supposedly have a town read on. What’s the point of trying to get a town player on your side if you’re town on Day 1? I would actually love for someone to seriously answer that because it doesn’t make logical sense. It does make logical sense for scum to try to get an actively pro-town player on their side on Day 1 though.

Thor: Does any of that make sense to you?
absta: Can you explain a lot more in depth your reads? (Also, not trying to be insulting, its just the way I feel)
Sixty: If you honestly think Cerulean is town, can you explain why? I did so about the player you’re voting for...
N: If you have any suspects can you ISO them and give us an explanation for your reads on them?
Soul: Can you give an updated reads list?

[Voidedmafia]

"Why me!?"

Hahahahahahaohyoufunny--answer the question.

But I know I'm town, yet don't know if you and/or Equi are town.

Explain why I should care about your problem in determining my alignment and Equi's.

You're not?

psst, it was semi-rhetorical.

Okay, what message were you trying to get across using your rhetoric?

Well, it's not for you, anyways. But what I wanted should be obvious.

and since you're talking about yourself, its akin to shooting yourself in the foot.

I've forgotten why this was important . Can you explain why you even said i'm shooting myself in the foot.

*sigh*

So you're going to consciously do something scummy and say "oh well done you get a Town read" when you're called on it?

No. I reviewed what I did after Equinox voted me to see if his vote was warranted.

So you're pointing out how you're scummy for us, is that it? I'm all for scum shooting themselves in the foot, but jeez, man, you could make it harder than this.

Um...you just quoted it.

What do you mean?
You were calling me scum yet you never explained anything. Can you link me to your explanation of why i'm scum (before post #147).

How friggin hard is it to miss post 60? How?

That'd be "explaining my read," thank you. Also check 116 (or around there).

No, YOU HADN'T explained your read on "BOTH" of us.[/quote]
Yes, I had.

[Thor665]

There are zero wagons that have any momentum, literally every wagon is at a standstill. Not just those two.

And yet, weirdly, they're still the two weakest.
Funny how that works.

Thor: Does any of that make sense to you?

In what way?
I skipped it because Cerulean is obv. town so I don't see much value in reading a case on them.
You should tell me your read on Voided though.

[absta101]

Quick reply:

Post 32 is the best post all game in the comedy dept.

^^^
That.

Why unvote?

I got a town read from his OMGUS vote.

Why was it scummy for me to unvote?

I did read over all the posts that came up while I was asleep, but I don't really understand how you did this.

well 'OMGUS'.

...what, exactly, was the point of this post?

I believe I would've voted absta if I were you. The reason being I didn't comment on anything, I just voted.

lol-selvoting. It's always fun when people can be convinced to vote themselves.

Or are you trying to pull some sort of "What would I do in your shoes" thing?

To get reactions and to get involved.
It wasn't random. I chose Equinox because he didn't comment on piggy's waggon and someone else was already voting him.

You didn't do that, either. Why is Equi a better wagon than you?

So you're going to consciously do something scummy and say "oh well done you get a Town read" when you're called on it?

No. I reviewed what I did after Equinox voted me to see if his vote was warranted.

So you're pointing out how you're scummy for us, is that it? I'm all for scum shooting themselves in the foot, but jeez, man, you could make it harder than this.

Bold your explanation of why i'm scum.

[Voidedmafia]

all of it?

[JesseSheffield]

Thor: Then no one's going to get anywhere. And I already said I'm leaning scum with Voided in post 206.