Open 463: Black Flag Nightless (Game Over)

[Thor665]

Nut the N wagon is gaining steam, look at how fascinating it is.

[Soul2277]

Yes I care about people's reads on me. I know this point propped up in an earlier finished game of mine (can't remember which nor do I care to search for it right now).

Thor I agree with your second n quote of it being scummy although not for the 1st. Sixty just out weighs n scum wise. Jesse same thing pretty much applies to you're read on n. It goes back to how is sixty less scummy then n?

Tammy most of the rest of your paragraph on me dealt with os so same as jt he can answer it later.

~Mehdi

[JesseSheffield]

Explain how it makes any sense at all - I'm probably just being dumb.

If N’s not scum with you but N’s scum why would he try to make a case on you. I don’t think anybody’s successfully done that this game, most players have hinted they’re intimidated by you, and I don’t think N is the type of player who would be the first to try it. Therefore its just easier to throw away his read on you. Its also easy for him to do that if he’s scum WITH you. Because that would be in your guys’ best interest.

[Soul2277]

Which of the two possibilities do you think is more likely?

~Mehdi

[callforjudgement]

Vote Count

• Sixty (4)
  : Cerulean Justin Timberlake Soul2277 PiggyGal15
  
• N (2)
  : Thor665 JesseSheffield
  
• Not voting:
  Sixty N absta101

Deadline: Fri 30 Nov, 21:22 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2012-11-30 21:22:00)

)

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

[Thor665]

I'll basically echo Soul's question.

Also, I'll admit the theory of 'If N is scum he wouldn't want to suspect Thor unless Thor is also scum' is not exactly compelling programming.

It also ignores my play...but maybe I'm being too Thor right now.

[JesseSheffield]

Also, I'll admit the theory of 'If N is scum he wouldn't want to suspect Thor unless Thor is also scum' is not exactly compelling programming.

I'm actually not even sure what you're trying to say here. But if N were scum he wouldn't... "suspect" you... there's only players who he can make targets out of. And if N were scum and you were town why would N try to start something against you? I can't think of a single possible way that would end in N's favor. And if you two were on a scum team why would N start something against you. Does anyone honestly believe N would be able to play this game well enough for it to not end poorly for one of you two?

So I'm really truly split 50/50 on which scenario I think is accurate. Providing, of course, N flips scum.

[Thor665]

So...it's a null tell?

[N]

I don't understand the argument between Soul and Justin, so I'm going to ignore it. I don't have a scumread on either of you, so I think it might be two townies arguing while the mafia sit back and do nothing.

Absta's didn't-read-the-rules-properly towntell attempt on the last page looks way too over the top, so for the moment, he can be the third scum we've been looking for. (The other two being Piggy and Sixty, of course.) I was starting to think the third could be Thor, because he hadn't called me scummy yet (he always seems to - okay, in the two completed games we have together he did), but he just voted for me so that's all okay.

I'd hammer Sixty, but I want them to come in and make some more incriminating posts and hopefully out their buddies for real.

None of this is real. I feel like I can just post any of N’s posts with a disclaimer “None of this is real.” I mean come on
1. The argument isn’t hard to understand and shouldn’t be ignored.
2. The quip about both being town reads is ridiculous I don’t even understand how someone could possibly have both Soul and JT as town reads.
3. absta’s general accidental lackadaisical play reads 100% town to me. And wait who are the other two scum? Cases please (and don’t pretend like you’ve already posted them).
4. Come on, you could go a million directions with a case on Thor and you’re not even going to attempt it mainly because you know it’ll either a) get blasted apart or b) he’s your scum partner.
5. Dooon’t even pretend like you care about anything Sixty has to say and if they’re as smart as I’m going to assume they are they wouldn’t out any of their buddies.

You just proved you're not reading the thread either, so you're being pretty hypocritical here. I've made a total of 7 posts, so it's not hard to go back and look at my iso.
1. Explain the argument to me, then.
2. I've already said I had Soul as a slight townread because of Mehdi's inane questioning. I don't see any reason to have a scumread on JT at this stage, and if you do perhaps you could point it out? You hadn't even mentioned them since Equinox replaced out.
3. You quoted my post saying my other two scumreads

in this very same post

.
4. Why should I make a case on Thor when I just said I have a probable-town read on him?
5. If you don't care about what Sixty has to say, why didn't you hammer?

Your post is incredibly hypocritical and shows you're not actually reading the thread. (Not reading the thread is a null-tell, but when you're pretending you're on top of everything, it's not. Also the fact that you quoted my post 436 but clearly didn't read any of it is quite telling.)

N - I doubt very seriously that either of those players are going to drop tells for who their partners are. Neither one of those players are incompetent, and knowing that they're going to be lynched are going to be trying to spread whatever misinformation they can, if they actually take the time out to do much of anything.

This is what worries me. If they're so competent, how did they get into such a position?

I'm starting to think Sixty wouldn't make such a horrible case on a partner, so I'm not so sure about my Piggy read any more; it was all based on her early play, but she hasn't actually done anything more recently so that's all there is to go on.

[Justin Timberlake]

You said I'm more assertive as scum. I said I think it's the exact opposite. My argument is the meta given so far is bad when it's that different from the meta I understand myself to have (I'm not arguing lack of meta reasoning I'm arguing how I think reasoning given so far is wrong).

Don't think I said 'assertive', said that you were stating reads. But this point is just getting stupid, you'll just have to wait until I have enough time for meta today.

I'm actually not even sure what you're trying to say here. But if N were scum he wouldn't... "suspect" you... there's only players who he can make targets out of. And if N were scum and you were town why would N try to start something against you? I can't think of a single possible way that would end in N's favor. And if you two were on a scum team why would N start something against you. Does anyone honestly believe N would be able to play this game well enough for it to not end poorly for one of you two? So I'm really truly split 50/50 on which scenario I think is accurate. Providing, of course, N flips scum.

I can kind of see where you're getting this from but logically it makes very little sense given the conclusion you're trying to grab from it. I'll explain; If you think that N-Scum wouldn't push on Thor-Town because he's not 'mslynchable' or a 'target' then you don't think that being the case is all that likely, similarly if you think that N-Scum wouldn't push on Thor-Scum as much because 'it wouldn't end well' and you don't see reasoning behind why he'd do it then it'd make that situation unlikely for you as well. So all up if anything your entire point about their connection and interaction should make you think N is town, not that N is scum maybe with Thor.

[Cerulean]

Nut the N wagon is gaining steam, look at how fascinating it is.

But it's less satisfying than a Sixty lynch.

Besides, for a limited time, I'm offering to the hammer of the Sixty wagon a holy avenger hammer (sure usually it's a sword but adjustments can be arranged.) I can also craft a vorpal hammer, upon request.

[Cerulean]

N - I doubt very seriously that either of those players are going to drop tells for who their partners are. Neither one of those players are incompetent, and knowing that they're going to be lynched are going to be trying to spread whatever misinformation they can, if they actually take the time out to do much of anything.

This is what worries me. If they're so competent, how did they get into such a position?

I don't think that was the plan. They made a bad case, and probably expected it to gain them some town cred. It didn't.

[Cerulean]

I listen to Justin Timberlake unironically.

(Hammer Sixty. N's town.)

~Empire.

[Justin Timberlake]

What's the Lassie? Timmy's stuck down a well? No? No? You're telling us Sixty are scum! Good girl Lassie!

[Justin Timberlake]

This is the part where we do something impossibly cool and turn the game around. ...hopefully.

Unvote: Soul2277
Vote to Hammer: Voidedmafia

^ This doesn't sound like a hammer of 'Hey I have a master plan, nbd got 4 town reads and I aint afraid to show it I'm sexy and I know it'. I mean...turn the game around what?

[Justin Timberlake]

Their 'plan' involves playing the fucking game normally btw. It's 'I don't want to lynch my townreads'. It's almost like how you'd play any nightless game. Holy fuck. I even mentioned a similar type thing to Regfan on AIM, about if we had enough townreads to POE this. No one in their right mind thinks 'I'm okay being lynched because I have the minimum required townreads'

[Justin Timberlake]

I don't understand the argument between Soul and Justin, so I'm going to ignore it. I don't have a scumread on either of you, so I think it might be two townies arguing while the mafia sit back and do nothing.

Do you think Soul are town? Why?

I would assume here that if Sixty were scum they listed on of their buddies, who they thought was the most overt pro-town player in the game, and another filler to look like this is a pro-town idea.

Why would they necessarily list one of their buddies? (I would specifically not mention my buddies for something like this, or I'd put both in. I'm cool though)

[Justin Timberlake]

(although calling you an idiot wasn't cool).

He started it

[Justin Timberlake]

Finished reading through Micro 4 properly, the reasoning behind the reads he stated were extremely weak with the logic being very paper-thin such as "X is scumhunting so I think town" "Y has town tone so I think town" his only scum-read was his partner who he bussed upon replacing in, rest of the game he didn't do all that much scumhunting, just filler-posting really. Also sometime to note is that in Micro 5 he wasn't actually mafia, was recruited cult and was recruited late game from what the posts inside Micro 4 states so this isn't really a game to use for scum-meta, with that said he stated that he thought Tim was the cult leader (cultists don't know leader) but still tried bussing him for town cred in Post #194 of the game. Can use up until D4 as town meta though; His reads have slightly more meat and logic attached to them and his questions and posts show a great more detail of thought process and effort behind them. Lastly Open 443 reads are actually considerably better than his other scum-game, a lot more effort into it but his follow up into his scum-reads and his change of reads are very unnatural, something to note; he initially town-read his partner, then turned it around and ended up pushing on him at the end - some of it is likely due to being forced to due to the open game nature but think there's a pattern of willingness to buss here. Probably need to take a look at one or two of his town games in slightly more detail tomorrow too then re-read his play this game to finish it up. Empire, you should give all of these a read - well particularly Micro 4 and Open 443.

PEdited by a fuckload of Faraday posts. Faraday, get on AIM. Plus stop spamming the thread up, you already have more posts than everyone combined nearly.

[Justin Timberlake]

Someone hammer.

[absta101]

I might have to replace out. Let me think on this.

[Thor665]

Do it.

[absta101]

I've thought about it and...
Sorry Mod, please replace me out.

[absta101]

@Mod

I've thought about it and...
Sorry Mod, please replace me out.

[Thor665]

Yeah, Absta is likely town.

Are we lynching N yet - feels like we were lynching N.