Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[Kise]

Today I chain iso'd BC and WC. I wasn't ready to commit to a BC townread because that's ma boy, but I used to see people giving him shit d1 for something or another. After the iso reads, nothing sticks out, so if the plans for voting that slot are still seen through today I have decided that WC is clean.

myk suggested that the cop be shot down quick. Out of everyone, HE was the person pressuring Tammy to shoot there and then. The sad emoticon in the last quote looks to me like an expression of disappointment that Tammy was not including Ben as one of her DK options. The mafia would have liked it very much to have her shoot the cop, lynch her, and kill someone else overnight - group of Yates/PV/zab/snif were absent, with the latter two posting not long after ThAd flipped while also not offering anything big to say. I ignored myk's quickhammer D1 but after the bizarre and conflicting behavior yesterday, that's the nail in the coffin. The switch for why he wanted to keep her alive made zero sense, but according to him other people agreed with his number fidgeting. It kept him out of mastin's crosshairs.

[Kise]

I also need to put a note to self in this post to check back on something BC said in his last posts.

[Kise]

Reminded again

So, a little late to this party, but I seem to recall Nero Cain claiming the kill on d1. Was that already ruled crazy reaction nonsense wasn't watching, or has that just been forgotten?

This was after ThAd flipped when Tammy proved she was the bomber. If one of zab or Nero flip scum, I don't think the other is as well. Ofc both can be town but one flipping town before the other doesn't mean anything to me as if one were to flip scum before the other.

[mykonian]

myk suggested that the cop be shot down quick. Out of everyone, HE was the person pressuring Tammy to shoot there and then. The sad emoticon in the last quote looks to me like an expression of disappointment that Tammy was not including Ben as one of her DK options. The mafia would have liked it very much to have her shoot the cop, lynch her, and kill someone else overnight - group of Yates/PV/zab/snif were absent, with the latter two posting not long after ThAd flipped while also not offering anything big to say. I ignored myk's quickhammer D1 but after the bizarre and conflicting behavior yesterday, that's the nail in the coffin. The switch for why he wanted to keep her alive made zero sense, but according to him other people agreed with his number fidgeting. It kept him out of mastin's crosshairs.

Tammy was my townread going out of day 1. That helps it make sense, I think.

And I think you could find a couple more switches on and off tammy. You might want to include them.

[Yates]

Vote: AngryPidgeon

Why AP?

I don't really know where to go from here. Yesterday and last night panned out as my worst case scenario.

[Kise]

Tammy was my townread going out of day 1. That helps it make sense, I think.

not at all.,

And I think you could find a couple more switches on and off tammy. You might want to include them.

KK hopped off midway, I can't think of anyone else besides the players who were always off Tammy. Mastin.

I don't really know where to go from here. Yesterday and last night panned out as my worst case scenario.

Same re: last night. I was hoping to kick my feet up for a while. Iso reading was so dreadful. So are you the godfather?

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD - am LA for weekend family duties until Monday per the norm.

--

VOTE: Mykonian

I think Kise's input is pretty solid and augments everything I said yesterday.

[zabriel]

Reminded again

So, a little late to this party, but I seem to recall Nero Cain claiming the kill on d1. Was that already ruled crazy reaction nonsense wasn't watching, or has that just been forgotten?

This was after ThAd flipped when Tammy proved she was the bomber. If one of zab or Nero flip scum, I don't think the other is as well. Ofc both can be town but one flipping town before the other doesn't mean anything to me as if one were to flip scum before the other.

I actually was wrong in that reminder. I re-read the post that I thought was him claiming and found that there was no claim in there. He was just very happy about having called AV scum so early. That's why I didn't push it when nobody picked up that thread.

[pidgey]

Fffffffffffff bengame died.

Also yeah myk is the most prob scum in my mind. But im do want to go through some stuff before voting. BRB gym.

[pappums rat]

Votecount 3.1

"Huh? What was that noise?" -Genome Soldier, Metal Gear Solid

mykonian - 2 (Kise, MagnaofIllusion)
AngryPidgeon - 1 (Kublai Khan)

Not voting - zabriel, mykonian, mastin2, WrathChild, PeregrineV, pidgey, Acosmist, Yates, AngryPidgeon, jasonT1981, snifit, Elscouta, Nero Cain

Nero Cain, mastin2, and PeregrineV are V/LA.
MagnaofIllusion is V/LA until Monday.

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 3 is 9 PM EST on November 30, 2012.

[Kise]

That's cool, zab. What I was noting was that I feel it less likely that if you both were mafia together, you would not have made that post.

[AngryPidgeon]

@Kise: Why am I town?
@Nero: Who did you target?
If someone got a message last night, I think they should claim it.

Vote: AngryPidgeon

Why AP?

I don't really know where to go from here. Yesterday and last night panned out as my worst case scenario.

Read on Mykonian? Is Acosmist still your favorite pony today?

KK hopped off midway, I can't think of anyone else besides the players who were always off Tammy. Mastin.

I was briefly on/off. Why did you mention Mastin here?

BRB gym.

Its ok, pidgey is a Benmage alt apparently. ^ ^

[AngryPidgeon]

myk suggested that the cop be shot down quick.

Not true. He was saying the same thing I was. (If tammy, is town she would have shot Benmage -> she is scum). Hes still scum, but just saying. Trying to say that Mykonian was hoping to save the NK is kind of a reach. If you are going to push him for this, the you are ignoring that I was basically holding the same opinion.

The

mafia would have liked it very much

to have her shoot the cop,

lynch her,

Do you think lynching Tammy was pro-scum?

Tammy was my townread going out of day 1. That helps it make sense, I think.

Were you quite certain that Ben was scum and lying then? I thought you agreed with me in the thread about the above point ^^^. Do you still think pidgey is scum?

@KK: Who did you suspect for suggesting 2 scum teams (other than me)? Do you still think that suggesting 2 teams was scummy given that Tammy flipped SK?

and if he were another scum faction he'd be pushing for her death with the rest of the town

So you agree with Mastin that most (all) scum were on the Tammy wagon? Read on Acosmist?

[zabriel]

I don't know if most/all, but there's very strong scum motivation for wanting Tammy dead. It would have been a great time to do some easy posturing.

I don't know about Aco. That claim is making things really awkward and clouding my thoughts. It might be worth it to remove the doubt and hope we hit scum, but I think that any lynch on Aco with the information we have right now is a solid policy lynch.

I don't hate the myk suspicion right now. I'd like KK to talk a little more about AP. I like summaries, they're easier on the eyes than scanning the game again.

[AngryPidgeon]

Spoiler: Tammy is the leading wagon by far

Votecount 2.11

"From the moment we're thrown into this world, we're fated to bring each other nothing but pain and misery." -Psycho Mantis, Metal Gear Solid

Tammy - 8 (snifit, Acosmist, Kise, Benmage, Kublai Khan, AngryPidgeon, pidgey, mykonian)
Kise - 1 (mastin2)
WrathChild - 1 (Tammy)

Not voting - zabriel, WrathChild, PeregrineV, Zoroaster, jasonT1981, Elscouta, Nero Cain, Yates

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is 3 PM EST on November 15, 2012.

and now I'm thinking

Aco deserves another look for lining up lynches.

Zabriel calls Acosmist scummy for lining up lynches.

Spoiler: Acosmist counter wagon going choo choo

Votecount 2.13

"This is the liberty we've won for ourselves: Outer Haven! And with this weapon I will destroy JD! Then, everything ends, and everything begins! But as for you, brother, you'll stay here to mark this island's watery grave!" -Liquid Ocelot, Metal Gear Solid 4

Tammy - 8 (snifit, Acosmist, Kise, Benmage, AngryPidgeon, pidgey, mykonian, WrathChild)

Acosmist - 4 (Kublai Khan, Yates, Elscouta, mastin2)

WrathChild - 1 (Tammy)

Not voting - zabriel, PeregrineV, Zoroaster, jasonT1981, Nero Cain

mastin2 is V/LA until Monday

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is 3 PM EST on November 15, 2012.

Not sure what's going on anymore.

Still don't care for the Tammy wagon. I'm not really sure about Aco.

Who is WC again?

What did you mean here? Why do you not care about the Acosmist wagon, despite previously calling him scummy and repeatedly voicing opposition to the tammy wagon (to which the Acosmist wagon was a CW?)

Spoiler: Acosmist wagon still the only counter wagon

Votecount 2.14

"You stupid elf, you could have killed me!" -Bellatrix Lestrange
"Dobby never meant to kill! Dobby only meant to maim, or seriously injure." -Dobby, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

Tammy - 8 (snifit, Acosmist, Kise, Benmage, AngryPidgeon, pidgey, mykonian, WrathChild)

Acosmist - 4 (Kublai Khan, Yates, Elscouta, mastin2)

WrathChild - 1 (Tammy)

Not voting - zabriel, PeregrineV, MagnaofIllusion, jasonT1981, Nero Cain

mastin2 is V/LA until Monday

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is 3 PM EST on November 15, 2012.

Unless we do have multiball going on, KK is town now. His last two posts are very logical and sensible.

Also, never considered that Ben might be a lyncher. Interesting idea KK.

Zabriel still not voting.

Spoiler: Acosmist is still the only counterwagon

Votecount 2.15

"I am prepared to face the consequences of my betrayal." -President Johnson, Metal Gear Solid 2

Tammy - 8 (snifit, Acosmist, Kise, Benmage, AngryPidgeon, pidgey, mykonian, WrathChild)

Acosmist - 4 (Kublai Khan, Yates, Elscouta, mastin2)

WrathChild - 1 (Tammy)
Kise - 1 (jasonT1981)

Not voting - zabriel, PeregrineV, MagnaofIllusion, Nero Cain

mastin2 is V/LA until Monday

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is 3 PM EST on November 15, 2012.

Tammy, is your power compulsive? Do you have to shoot every day? Can you shoot more than once per day?

Zabriel still not voting.

Spoiler: Elscouta starts a pidgey wagon

Votecount 2.16

"I'm going to kill you, Harry Potter. I'm going to destroy you. After tonight, no one will ever again question my power. After tonight if they speak of you, they'll only speak of how you begged for death. And how I being a merciful Lord... obliged." -Voldemort, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

Tammy - 8 (snifit, Acosmist, Kise, Benmage, AngryPidgeon, pidgey, mykonian, WrathChild)

Acosmist - 3 (Kublai Khan, Yates, mastin2)

WrathChild - 1 (Tammy)
Kise - 1 (jasonT1981)

pidgey - 1 (Elscouta)

Not voting - zabriel, PeregrineV, MagnaofIllusion, Nero Cain

mastin2 is V/LA until Monday

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is 3 PM EST on November 15, 2012.

We would get some information out of a Tammy lynch, but I still think having a town-directed day kill is going to benefit us

. I still think shenanigans, but even if the day mafia multiball suspicion is right, leaving Tammy alive effectively neuters her hypothetical scum team, since an unauthorized daykill is going to get her lynched on principle. I'd rather we move onto other scum suspects and let scum decide what to do with her. Even if we don't "need" the kill, it's a threat to scum, and she'll eventually take a bullet for the town. At the very least, we can use Tammy as a meat shield since there's at least one scum faction that needs her dead regardless of her alignment.

Of the people with votes, I guess pidgey is the person I'm most comfortable voting for

. I had KK down as scum earlier, but I like his thoughts on Tammy, mostly because I don't think he'd defend a sinking ship if they were teammates, and if he were another scum faction he'd be pushing for her death with the rest of the town. I'm pretty sure that whatever Tammy is KK is town now.

VOTE: pidgey

I dont recall you mentioning pidgey before this. Why did you think pidgey was a better vote than Acosmist? Did you no longer think Acosmist was scummy, or even PL worthy? You keep impling in all these posts that Tammy is a terrible wagon and that we should wagon someone else, buy you avoided the main CW (Acosmist) the whole time until a 2nd CW started.

Spoiler: Acosmist wagon has more votes, but the Tammy counterwagons are split

Votecount 2.17

"I'm no hero... never was. I'm just an old killer, hired to do some wet work." -Solid Snake, Metal Gear Solid 4

Tammy - 9 (snifit, Acosmist, Kise, Benmage, AngryPidgeon, pidgey, mykonian, WrathChild, MagnaofIllusion)

Acosmist - 3 (Kublai Khan, Yates, mastin2)

pidgey - 2 (Elscouta, zabriel)

WrathChild - 1 (Tammy)
Kise - 1 (jasonT1981)

Not voting - PeregrineV, Nero Cain

WrathChild has recieved his first prod.

mastin2 is V/LA until Monday

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is 3 PM EST on November 15, 2012.

Do you still think Pidgey is scum?

[Kise]

@Kise: Why am I town?

We had a little moment yesterday. The war was pretty much you, Benmage, MoI, pidgey and me vs. Tammy, mastin, KK, jason and myk. I'm not making guesses on anyone's alignment from either side but knowing I may not be right about all of my scumreads, I observed how you and KK went at each other as well as you and myk. It looked stupid for you two to set each other up like that with your RB down and the cop+doc combo active. Secretly I want you as an ally (not so secret any more) because we DO have similar views and opinions. I had to ask myself if you as scum would share the same suspects I did, or would you try to cover up for your partners. I used to tunnel in my first few games but I learned quick that there are scum who can play a flawless game and give you no reason to catch on to them.

And going back to when I said AV's buddies would be quieter with him shot, there were other players who lurked criminally or were somewhat lurkish (snifit & PV fit in this category, with your predecessor IAI being the biggest lurker).

KK hopped off midway, I can't think of anyone else besides the players who were always off Tammy. Mastin.

I was briefly on/off. Why did you mention Mastin here?

KK hopped off midway,

I can't think of anyone else

besides the players

who were always off Tammy = MASTIN.

Still, you didn't pull a 180 and try to tear the Tammy wagon down...I think.

myk suggested that the cop be shot down quick.

Not true.

Very true. Check again. This is him telling her to shoot Ben.

He was saying the same thing I was. (If tammy, is town she would have shot Benmage -> she is scum). Hes still scum, but just saying. Trying to say that Mykonian was hoping to save the NK is kind of a reach. If you are going to push him for this, the you are ignoring that I was basically holding the same opinion.

You both may have thought along the same lines, but he was outright instructing her to shoot the cop to prove she was town/he was lying. I went back to be sure:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p4459016
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4459172

These are your posts mentioning Tammy's lack of killing Ben. No where in these posts do you tell her to shoot Ben. This is you pondering.

I may be reaching, but if he's scum for real then it's not reaching at all, right?

The

mafia would have liked it very much

to have her shoot the cop,

lynch her,

Do you think lynching Tammy was pro-scum?

It benefited all alignments. I always knew that but I didn't want to say anything that would kill the wagon - If you look back, you can tell Ben and I were being desperate by referencing old games that included daykilling mafia. I was with him in trying to drive that lynch through, and I left out some minor details regarding those games.

On the flip side, if we used her to daykill via majority vote, that just as well COULD have benefited her and every other alignment. The thing to keep in mind is that there was mystery surrounding exactly what kind of non-town Tammy was. It should have clicked that she was Fatman via the flavor of her kills, but even that doesn't speak much about faction.

[Yates]

Read on Mykonian?

*shrug*

I need to reread yesterday sans vig/sk drama. I don't think being right or wrong about Tammy flipping SK is an alignment tell nor do I think scum were all on or off of a certain wagon. If anything, with the division being the way it was, I would expect roughly half the team to be on and half to be off in order to avoid guilt by wagon analysis.

Is Acosmist still your favorite pony today?

Acosmist was never my

favorite

pony. I just thought dealing with the PGO was a better play late in the day than a no lynch or Tammy lynch.

Iso reading was so dreadful. So are you the godfather?

Are you trying to hint at something regarding my night actions/lack thereof or make jokes?

[Acosmist]

VOTE: zabriel

[Yates]

VOTE: zabriel

Really? That's your contribution? You haven't mentioned Zab since like post 730-something.

[Elscouta]

I hate to admit it, but the reactions of pidgey during the last part of the day looked quite coherent with his previous playstyle. I'm thinking that what i read as scummy might just be a "peculiar" style.

I still would be up for a snifit or Ascomist lynch, but i'm interesting in seeing the MoI vs mastin fight.

@mastin, it is generally considered that having more than 50% chance of scum-lynching accuracy is pretty great. Your behavior during last day seemed to look like you where way above this bar. What make you so confident? Have you already been so confident before? Have you already been so confident and failed?

[Kise]

Are you trying to hint at something regarding my night actions/lack thereof or make jokes?

hmm.. that would be kind of sloppy of me to expose both of us as having PRs wouldn't it?

>.>

But you didn't answer my question.

<.<

[Yates]

No, I'm not scum. At this point, I think that's pretty evident. Notice I said scum and not Godfather? That's what raised the flag...

[AngryPidgeon]

And going back to when I said AV's buddies would be quieter with him shot

Why would AV's buddies be inclined to lurk because he died? Not quite sure why they would lurk since Tammy was apparently shooting lurkers.

Very true. Check again. This is him telling her to shoot Ben.

I need to look that sequence up in his/my ISO. I thought I asked him about it at the time and he said he was thinking the same thing I was (SK Tammy wouldn't shoot Ben under any reasonable circumstances)

She should shoot that if she's town.

I guess I kind of see the motivation here. Its like saying "Tammy, shoot cop Ben for me and I'll give you towncred!". Originally I read it like "Tammy has to be scum because she hasn't auto-shot Ben"...Which was my opinion anyhow.

I may be reaching, but if he's scum for real then it's not reaching at all, right?

Unless you are throwing him under the bus aggressively

But I don't think thats the case.

Re Kill benefiting what team: ok.

I think before you said that you never actually found me scummy, but just really disliked IaI. Only thing I slightly dislike is you are kind of basing me = town on Myk/KK=scum, but, eh.

What make you so confident? Have you already been so confident before? Have you already been so confident and failed?

Trust me, confidence is a null tell for Mastin. In mini 1377 he made wall after wall about FancyPants and how he was like 100% guaranteed scum and then after FP flipped VT, mastin did not even mention anything about how wrong he was. It made me think he was scum at the time. What makes Mastin so confident? Dunno, but at least I can answer the 2nd Q for you

What changed your mind on pidgey, exactly?

[Kise]

Why would AV's buddies be inclined to lurk because he died? Not quite sure why they would lurk since Tammy was apparently shooting lurkers.

I was thinking their best chance at not grabbing the attention of investigators, blockers, killers and the lynch mob would be to lay low. I hadn't considered that they may have tried outguessing the daykiller's motives.

[AngryPidgeon]

Pveeeeeeee, comment on my Zab wall.

I see you onsite