Micro 66 - Robo's F11 (Game Over)

[Mitillos]

@Thor: The PMyst wagon wasn't scummy, but it was on a PR. People don't always decide who is scum by their actions, but by the results from them. In this case, the result of the wagon was that we lost our doctor. I would have expected both scum and town to attack me for the PMyst wagon, not because of its motivation, but because of its result.

@Mala: Not towards the end, but early on. Or at least I was under the impression you did. Maybe I was mistaken, but it makes little difference now.

[Thor665]

If the wagon wasn't scummy but the result was (bwuh?) why do you think town would immediately attack you?

[Mitillos]

I didn't say the result was scummy. I said the result would be an excuse for others to attack me. And town wouldn't necessarily attack me immediately, but there had been quite a few posts between the day starting and me actually getting here. In any case, I wasn't attacked, which is good, since it means the town cares more about motivations than other things. But you can't deny that this isn't the case with all players and that some players would, in fact, have attacked me, given PMyst's flip.
Think of it like Nacho's statement that he'd expect one of you and himself to be killed overnight (which was accurate). My expectation was not accurate, which is a good thing in this case, but it was a possibility.

[Thor665]

If it makes you feel better I was planning to attack you for your vote on the wagon later - feel free to react to it now though.

[Mitillos]

No thanks, I'm good. You say Violet is scum. If he is, who is his most likely scumpartner and why?

[Thor665]

Dunno - don't hunt scumpartners.
It would be someone on the wagon though - that's relatively certain.

[Robocopter87]

• Rayburn

  : A man can be an artist... in anything, food, whatever. It depends on how good he is at it. Creasey's art is death. He's about to paint his masterpiece.

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Vote Count

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• TraceyLyn11 [1] Violet
  
• Cheery Dog [1] Guy_Named_Riggs
  
• Guy_Named_Riggs [1] Cheery Dog
  
• Malakittens [0]
  
• Mitillos [1] Malakittens
  
• Thor665 [0]
  
• Violet [2] Thor665, TraceyLyn11

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Not Voting

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• Mitillos

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Amount to Lynch

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• With 7 Alive it is 4 to Lynch.

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Deadline

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• 11:59 PM of December 15^th, EST.

__________

[Robocopter87]

I apologize for the 4 pages without a votecount. You guys are on top of activity though, and for that I am truly grateful.

[Cheery Dog]

Dunno - don't hunt scumpartners.
It would be someone on the wagon though - that's relatively certain.

So you're clearing me and yourself, that's nice. I do agree that if it was one-on, one-off, Vio would be the off-the-wagon-scum. I believe it more likely that both were on the wagon though.
(but you never can tell with deadline lynches)

[Violet]

Just to clear things up, I did say I would hammer before deadline. I'm not exactly off the wagon. Or scum, for that matter.

[Thor665]

Why do you think that's important to note?

[Violet]

Honesty.

[Thor665]

Which will help us in this particular instance...how?

[TraceyLyn11]

I keep telling myself to post here, but then I remember the several posts that I wanted to respond to, and I get demotivated.

I'll try and respond tomorrow.

[Violet]

Which will help us in this particular instance...how?

You should have the foresight to know that even if something isn't helpful right this second, it might be later on. But thanks for making it more obvious that you're misrepresenting me.

[Thor665]

...could you define 'misrepresent' as you're using it there?

[Violet]

By pretending that information is never useful.

[Thor665]

Well...tell you what. Later on, in the game, when you spot where that information becomes relevant as anything besides a mewling claim of townishness from you.

Let me know.

[TraceyLyn11]

If anything, Thor should be put under more scrutiny,

because the only player he seems to have any respect for was Nacho

.

Does not having respect for other players make him scummy?

As for me "avoiding the thread", would I pull a PMyst like that, after attacking him so much for avoiding the thread throughout day 1? Don't be silly.

Well now that you've said this, yes, I think you might do that.

@Tracey: Who are your second and third scummiest reads, excluding me, and why?

Excluding you? I guess Thor and Riggs since the other two are my town reads. I already said why Thor is bothering me - gut. He just seems like he has less of a demanding presence this game, and it just doesn't feel like he's trying to be super pro-town like he usually does. His game just feels off compared to the last one we were in together. But then again, anytime I see him in a game, I'm often biased to read him as scum.. Which would explain my caution in going after him.

Riggs out of process of elimination as well as his lack of input, I guess. Not much more I could say - he hasn't provided much more.

@Mala: Even if I was avoiding the thread, how would that have been scummy?

Why didn't you pressure Mala into answering this?

I think I might be cool with a Violet wagon, but I don't want to rush like yesterday and cause another mislynch.

I have a fairly solid town read on Violet.

What happened to these?

And what happened to your Riggs scum read?

In fact, what are your reads on everyone?

ebwdp; had you looked at PM's meta yesterday?

OK, firstly, @Cheery: No, it doesn't make Thor obv-town. I already gave a counter to his "if PMyst is town, lynch Nacho" thing. If anything, Thor should be put under more scrutiny, because the only player he seems to have any respect for was Nacho.

Then put him under more scrutiny then, but it's made my read of him continue to be town. If you want to be different, then so be it.

Cheery's town.

I'm guessing you still think of me as town, judging by how you wrote that sentence after.

What was the point in saying this?

Alright, and while I'm doing that, why don't you describe in impossible detail why

all

of your scumreads are scum and

all

of your town reads are town, and exactly why (down to the last passing thought you could possibly have) you're

such good friends

with Thor even though you keep correcting his every case.

Uhm. Wat. I don't think that was an unreasonable question. Especially since I doubted you had actually read his meta like you said you did. Is there a reason that you linked them for Cheery but not me?

I also find it amusing that you keep saying that I'm buddying Thor. I've thought I've been pretty touchy and aggressive with him.. In fact, explain to me how we've been buddy-buddy. You seem to like bringing it up in

every single post

you make. Show me examples. You keep saying how we're asking each other questions and correcting each other's cases? I don't even know what you mean by the latter, but I don't exactly see how the former is scummy.

And yes. I looked at Thor's meta, that's the only other meta I've looked at. All I learned from Thor's is that he's hard to read if he's scum you're pretty much screwed. Which isn't entirely inaccurate now.

Why did you only look at Riggs' and Thor's meta?

There's town on every wagon. What do you think about the facts that Tracey and Thor are the main pushers of my wagon, and are buddy-buddy, and keep asking each other to close holes in each others arguments, and just so happen to be the two people I suspected when I first came into the game? You completely ignored that part.

You didn't suspect Thor, though. You suspected Klick. And once Thor came in, you had him as a null-town read and then a town read. Today is the first time you've shown any indication that you thought Thor was scum.

You also keep forgetting that Thor has voted you for night speculation. He has not clarified on anything more. So why are you freaking out about his vote?

It doesn't really matter anyway, my townread of you is probably going to stay unless you do something very derp.

Was there a reason in pointing this out?

Also, I might be cool with a Violet wagon, because I think he might be scum. I don't know whether or not he will be a mislynch, or even a lynch, because I don't know his alignment. Which is why I don't want to rush into voting him. Perhaps it would have been clearer if I said "potentially cause another mislynch".
If you want it more clearly: My read on Violet right now is null leaning scum.

What are your other reads? If you think he could be scum, WHY NOT SHEEP THE WAGON?

I don't think they've entirely thought this through, nor would they have. Thor still has no visible case against me. And Tracey, always one to back him up, pointed it out while avoiding any mention of suspicion. They're literally blowing me off, together, with no regard to how it looks, because that's how confident they are that they have the win in their hands.

Well a) I haven't mentioned suspicion of him because I'm unsure of whether he is Thor-scum or Thor-town yet. I get bad gut vibes, but he seems to be moving the game along in a more or less pro-town way, so. And I have read over his scum QTs, and from those I glean that he's a much better town player than a scum player. That being said, I don't think it's an issue letting my read on him simmer until I can get a clear one. And b) HOW HAVE I BLOWN YOU OFF. I respond to everything you say, I refute every case you make, I challenge a lot of the things you say. I am most certainly

not

blowing you off.

@Thor: No, you shouldn't. (Unless you're scum. Then you should totally vote me.) But I could see how I might have been an easy mislynch target today. I'm not entirely sure what you're asking there with the PMyst wagon. Could you clarify?

And I don't think I will sheep you at this time

, but at least now

I'm more convinced you are town.

Explain the bolded please?

If she

thinks she

knows something, she's extremely aggressive and confident about it. If she doesn't, she's more unsure and cautious. I

highly

doubt she'd be this aggressive as town.

Fixed that for you.

Also, aggressiveness has nothing to do with it - I'm aggressive as both alignments. Confidence though, that could probably be more alignment-indicative.

Tracey, most definitely. She's been

deceptive and manipulative

the entire game, and

her reads aren't genuine

. Among other things. My read on her isn't dependent on anything but her play this game.

Oh no you did not. DECEPTIVE? I've told you this before in real life. The thrill of being scum is winning

without

lying. You know I don't like lying, there's no point in using it as scum - especially when it's expected. Show me

one instance

of my being deceptive.

As for the manipulation factor, what have I manipulated? List three things. I dare you. Go.

How have my reads not been genuine? Again, show me examples.

[Malakittens]

Exactly the question you asked Mit yourself Tracey. I want to see if his reads has changed from Day 1 or not. So me simply asking if he still thinks of me as town is a getting a precise answer.

I'm really not sure what to think about the Vio-Tracey. I honestly believe we have a town-town debate and this isn't going to help if this continues on any longer. I can see scum using this as their "distraction".

Thisis whyi questioned Mit with his response that he's "okay" with a Violet wagon earlier. Plus other questions which makes me assume that he actually knows people's alignments.

[Mitillos]

@Tracey: Way to misrepresent, yet again. What makes it necessary for Thor to be scrutinised is that Nacho died and is the only player Thor seems to respect. If Thor were scum, he'd go for Nacho first. My read on Violet changed because of the various posts between the two you list. Which should be fairly obvious. Riggs is still leaning scum, because of his lurkiness. And I already said why I was not sheeping the wagon. An additional reason is that I think you might be scum, trying to get a second mislynch and put us in LyLo.

I have town reads on Thor, Mala and Cheery. I think that the mafia team is in Tracey, Violet, Riggs. In both cases, reads are in descending order of strength. The latest bout with Thor, about being on the wagon and so on doesn't sit right with me.

@Thor: Is Tracey town, null or scum? Why?

@Cheery: How is Thor clearing himself? He sort of voted for PMyst, after the hammer, so he is on the wagon too, in a sense.

@Mala: You seem to be saying that I am scum. If so, why, and who is my partner? If not, who is scum and why aren't you voting them, instead?

[Cheery Dog]

It doesn't really matter anyway, my townread of you is probably going to stay unless you do something very derp.

Was there a reason in pointing this out?

Not really, I guess to show that my town read was still strong even though I had just found a lie by Thor.

@Cheery: How is Thor clearing himself? He sort of voted for PMyst, after the hammer, so he is on the wagon too, in a sense.

Well I guess more on the wagon than either Violet or my claims to maybe hammer at some point. (Violet before the lynch and me after)
Still off the official wagon though, and that's what I class as "on the wagon" - if it's not visible in a votecount someplace, I don't count it as being on the wagon. (though it does count as a vote if I'm going through the player's ISO).
You can use different terms for what the wagon is in your own mind, but that's how it sits with me.

[Thor665]

@Thor: Is Tracey town, null or scum? Why?

Town.
Kinda openly stated that yesterday and haven't done anything to reverse that stance.
The core point is, I grabbed the biggest scum read I could on her and ran with it and she wuss slapped it pretty mightily. Other than that she's been doing what I see as strong pro-town play (question reads, provide reads, clarify reads, assert reads) and I'll be fairly surprised if she's scum. I also think I can read her fairly well considering a past game so feel fairly comfortable with that call.

[TraceyLyn11]

Plus other questions which makes me assume that he actually knows people's alignments.

Examples?

@Tracey: Way to misrepresent, yet again.

Explain to me exactly how I can misrepresent you... In a question... Good to know you're following in Vio's foot steps, though!

What makes it necessary for Thor to be scrutinised is that Nacho died and is the only player Thor seems to respect. If Thor were scum, he'd go for Nacho first.

Why do you assume that respect plays a large part in it? Let's say Thor

is

scum. Nacho's reads would have been off on him (he had him as a strong town read). Why wouldn't Thor want to keep him around? Especially since he had such a large voice?

My read on Violet changed because of the various posts between the two you list.

But what of his posting made you change your mind?

Riggs is still leaning scum, because of his lurkiness.

In other news, I'm starting to see Riggs the same way Tracey said she saw me earlier. That is, I think he's slightly scummy, but I'm starting to think it may be more just his posting style, than anything else.

So you don't think it's his posting style anymore?

And I already said why I was not sheeping the wagon.

And I don't think I will sheep you at this time, but at least now I'm more convinced you are town.

No you didn't.

An additional reason is that I think you might be scum, trying to get a second mislynch and put us in LyLo.

Anyway, had PMyst flipped scum, my main suspects now would have been Tracey and Mala. As he didn't, I don't know whom to suspect.

Uh?

I have town reads on Thor, Mala and Cheery. I think that the mafia team is in Tracey, Violet, Riggs.

Why is Mala town and I scum?

If you think Vio is likely to be scum, wouldn't it make sense to vote him rather than not voting (especially since he actually has a wagon behind him already)? Actually, you're the only one not voting. And you have three ideas for scum. Vote someone.

The latest bout with Thor, about being on the wagon and so on doesn't sit right with me.

Then why do you have Thor as your strongest town read...?

The core point is, I grabbed the biggest scum read I could on her and ran with it and she wuss slapped it pretty mightily.

I don't remember my attacking your read on me. And I just skimmed back and couldn't find it. Could you clarify?

[Nachomamma8]

do not mourn me, for i am not dead
i am alive, but i am a sheep
bah