Open 465 - Wot's... Uh the Deal? (Game Over! Town Win!)

[Adam-12]

Adam:

Others have asked this, but I'm going to ask it in a different way. How does asking about Mafia experience and asking questions of games did you play with Player "X" help this game? What information so far have you gotten from them?

What makes me wonder is this:

Or let me put it another way, you don't think scum would not confirm because they are chatting in the Q/T & would be otherwise occupied? Isn't it a reasonable motivation for ultimately falling asleep instead of confirming?

It seems as if you took my stance very seriously, but with held a vote. I am not sure why exactly you withheld it.

Levi is obviously town, his explanation proves that whereas Shrimp's explanation proves he is scum.

The point is that the original case on Levi IS a good reason to vote (the only problem is Levi is town).

When did you see that it was a good reason to vote?

You never really explain why those explanations prove each or even point that direction.

I've only skimmed your post yet but I figured I would answer this since I saw it.

Asking if one player has played with another shows their familiarity with their gameplay for meta reasons which will help me to direct further queries. Trying to identify & clarify a certain "familiarity" that players seem to exhibit towards each other also could help identify scum teams.

Ok the point on Levi was very good but Shrimp dismissed it like it was garbage and then based all of his subsequent actions on that. I had a scum read on Shrimp and needed to find out if he really believed what he was saying regarding the Levi case because it looked to me like he mas maufacturing a viewpoint to justify his behavior. Also, Mantis dismissed the case and I brought it up again to further promote my scum read on Shrimp.

Even though the case on Levi is very good, of course it doesn't mean that he is ironclad 100% scum. If you look in the thread you see that I queried Levi quite strongly (what Mantis called "inferring") and was ready to vote him based on his response. His subsequent response made me back off of him quite quickly as I think everyone else did as well. Thats when I turned my attention to Shrimp.

Looks like popular opinion is with the stupid way. Fine, I didn't love any of you anyway.

Vote Count

Mantis (L-4): Pirate Mollie
Adam-12 (L-3): Shrimp85, Guile
Prohawk (L-4): Malakittens
Guile (L-3): Adam-12, ProHawk

Not Voting: Code, Levi, Mantis

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[Adam-12]

Well I definitely disagree with the Mollie and Hawk reads from you Mala.

What do you think of Mollie's explanation regarding role PM case pushing?

Also, what do you think of how and why Hawk holds Shrimp as clearly town?

[ProHawk]

LoL @ the stupid way. Thanks Majiffy! On the bright side, it should be less work for you

[Majiffy]

Actually I think it's more work. At least with constantly updating it, I don't have to worry about getting behind or missing something. Now I do. T.T

[ProHawk]

In that case, sorry mate!

[Adam-12]

I like the top of page myself alot. When the page loads you can see everything.

[leviathan93]

I want to add my new list of updated thoughts on the players.

Adam: I really feel like he is helping. He seems innocent enough in his words and I have thought so from the beginning. What I especially give him points for is his huge analysis of us all. I find it held some of my own thoughts. He reads a town for me. I also believe that we should pay attention to Guille and Code, because of their lack of care in reading, or possible business but none of us will know. the game has taken off considerably in my opinion and there is lots of evidence and information that we have here that town needs to sipher through and pick out the useful bits.

Mala: I claim her to be town as well. Her first accusation against me was definitely a town move in my opinion as she 1. wanted to get out of RVS which town wants asap. 2. she honestly thought she saw a scum tell from her experience in other games that i'm guessing. She seems like an experienced town in my opinion and seems like a smart and active scum hunter asking questions that will actually get answers rather then asking questions that she hopes will give answers or helpful clues.

Shrimp: my first thought is to just pronounce him scum because of the sheer incredulousness I feel whenever he posts. Everything he says I honestly disagree with and everything he claims I think he is basically wrong. Especially about the things he claims about me. I know the truth of my actions. he is not wrong about everything necessarily but his posts were hard to read so I kept having to go back to them and maybe I still don't even understand what he means. Regardless of just how plain WRONG I think he is that doesn't necessarily fly as scum to me. So it could mean his character is a scum act of sorts. or he is an not understandable frustrated townsfolk. I honestly see it at either or. kind of leaning more town, but all I can get from my gut is scum yet logically I see possible misunderstood townie.

Hawk: I will again state that I thought hawk to be town in the beginning. I have seen arguments thrown around over the last 4 pages and I say that they have some weight to them, but still hold my pro-town like position over him. I feel he has major experience in the game and recall some of his posts to be very pro town and helpful scumhunting tries with intelligence behind them. Scum i feel would not like to give us much intelligence, unless they were so intelligent as to pretend to be protown and offering intelligent false things which I think we should always be aware of but i'm not sure that he is necessarily doing that. Again, more town then scum feel but give him a possibility of slipping.

Mollie: I want to say that I thought it was an interesting move when she jumped on my wagon in the beginning. I would have understood it because it seems like someone I would have done, because I believe Mala seemed to have a point by picking me (even though I had no idea what I was doing) . what I did find odd was the asking like Adam mentions. i probably would have asked, but i understand if she may have felt cautious about jumping on my wagon so early in the game on someone elses reason. I would have been cautious of people judging me for that as well. I do like that she is the only one to call out mantis and throw an accusation his way because I don't believe any player should have a straight shot at being able to slip through without being questioned just because one person thought they were town or something. people have been known to be wrong. it happens. all the experienced players probably know that from their experience. it sucks, but it happens. so I'm cautious even though I have never been right or wrong yet. Whether she has much reason for accusing mantis or not I feel it was a good thing to happen. so leaning more town for you.

Mantis: again, I found myself agreeing with Adam's reading. His posts are very light compared to the others in this thread. I feel by looking more at his posts and his posts in the future and seeing similarities or differences will show us if he is scum or pro-town. I really like to see more off his thoughts, and also would like to say that I do believe Adam's questioning regardless of fillerness or anything can always give us more information that can help town, so I disagree with him there. more leaning to scum then town.

Code: NEED MORE POSTS!! I SEE YOU AS SCUM BECAUSE SO MUCH HAS HAPPENED AND WE NEED YOUR HELPFUL INSIGHT!

guille: Again, another scum read because of so little information and what little he has said tries to discredit Adam's thinking and questioning which I am all for. NEED MORE! but agree guiltiness so far!

VOTE: Guille

[Mantisdreamz]

also hawk boy I think you are letting shrimp guy off too easy but will you plz vote mantis with me her number one scum tell besides leaving me to die is thread avoidance and she was on this morning.

That's not true. i logged onto ratskep just before work in order to proxy my vote, not here though.

time to go back for a read.

Molly, i asked you for the summary at the time, because i was exhausted and really didn't want to read. i also asked you if you really felt that Shrimp was scum, but i don't think you answered that. when i was reading last night, i didn't get a very scummy impression from him. which is why i said i was wondering about you, since you had your vote on him. Also, you placed your vote on leviathan... and i was disagreeing about the whole fact that any votes should have been placed on him, because he didn't confirm right away. I don't think that you normally would follow with that logic. i know that you don't like talk of role pm's or anything that is kind of outside the actual game. And that thing with lev, was somewhat similar to that kind of thing.

[Mantisdreamz]

mollie, i also wouldn't say i

think

for sure you are scum... i'll do a reread of the last several pages

what are your thoughts on Adam?

[ProHawk]

Mantis, who is scum?

[Mantisdreamz]

Mantis, who is scum?

i just said

. i'll do a reread of the last several pages

!


but off the top of my head, and from last night's reading,
i think malakitten and leviathan look town

[Mantisdreamz]

not sure about scum though.

i saw a few guille posts while i was skimming.. and those didn't bother me.

[Mantisdreamz]

sorry i mean, guille votes. votes on guile.

[Adam-12]

@Mantis: Have you read Mala's link, re: prolonging confirmation?

[Mantisdreamz]

though, i don't really get this post (at the time didn't get it much either)

Its a major wagon atm.

Ok, forget it.

Levi is obviously town, his explanation proves that whereas Shrimp's explanation proves he is scum.

The point is that the original case on Levi IS a good reason to vote (the only problem is Levi is town).

because Adam, weren't we just talking about how you think it's not unreasonable for Levi to be possible scum because he took long to confirm?

and then it seemed like a few posts later, you were stating that Levi was obvious town. how did you make that leap?

[Mantisdreamz]

@Mantis: Have you read Mala's link, re: prolonging confirmation?

no, i wasn't quite sure where to find it. Do you know a post number off hand, or a page whereabouts?

[Mantisdreamz]

Wow, you guys are getting me wrong.

I reviewed Shrimp's overall post history and I seriously don't think he believes what he is posting itt.

Adam, where do you get this conclusion from? I's complete BS.
I don't understand how you all are so confident about lynching Leviathan93 for logging in a bit later. Leviathan93 is one of the newest players.
Don't you even see that that's not a clear scum tell? We have all day, don't try to quick lynch, it would be a waste of all the

precious time

town could use for their benefit.

for some reason, i can't see you being serious and typing out precious time.

[Adam-12]

though, i don't really get this post (at the time didn't get it much either)

Its a major wagon atm.

Ok, forget it.

Levi is obviously town, his explanation proves that whereas Shrimp's explanation proves he is scum.

The point is that the original case on Levi IS a good reason to vote (the only problem is Levi is town).

because Adam, weren't we just talking about how you think it's not unreasonable for Levi to be possible scum because he took long to confirm?

and then it seemed like a few posts later, you were stating that Levi was obvious town. how did you make that leap?

There are two separate things here:

1) The CASE against Levi which is strong but was dismissed by you and Shrimp
2) Levi's alignment which appears town (with the caveat about a bad newbtown claim but I actually doubt that actually)

So its one thing to talk about the validity of the case (to validate motivations for initially pushing it and invalidate motivations for decrying its validity) but its something another to talk about his alignment which was made clear subsequent to the case being generated, right?

[Adam-12]

Replying to This post

[Mantisdreamz]

Shrimp's reactions seem town to me:

First off, I want to say that mantisdreamz seems to be the only one understanding why and what I did. you can see that in post post 87.

Now, my vote is without a doubt going to Adam-12.

His posts are full off useless questions.

Not at all. In both cases valuable information was concluded from that question.

Where is this valuable information?

How long have you been playing Mafia Levi?

filler

@Shrimp: How long have you been playing Mafia?

filler
[quote="adam-12]I think I will do this:

Vote Shrimp

I got no explanation as to why you wanted to vote me in this post.

@Mala: How much do you remember playing with Mollie? Was she town or scum?

Useless

I reviewed Shrimp's overall post history and I seriously don't think he believes what he is posting itt.

This is bullshit, and almost certainly a lie.

I think that he has far more experience that what he is portraying here; i.e. he's not a complete newb to Mafia or this site.

I never stated that I WAS a noob, I DO have more experience indeed.
This post is deceiving BS.

I think he has also tried to avoid responsibility for all this by claiming to be drinking.

This is also a lie, since I never stated that.

So you guys have played together before?

Another filler.

Well, lets let everyone settle in so we can discuss it.

A call for action, but a useless one, it's obvious we have to discuss...it's another filler to make him seem active and pro town.

Levi is obviously town, his explanation proves that whereas Shrimp's explanation proves he is scum.

The point is that the original case on Levi IS a good reason to vote (the only problem is Levi is town).

Now Levi IS obviously town?
Why?

Ya well, there is no reason not to bring it out I guess, I think everyone here (and anyone else reading this thread later) knows that Levi is town.

No,this is NOT the case, there is no confirmation on Levi's role,where did you get this from?

In fact, my read on Leviathan93 has increased mainly because of these posts.

basically i'm just a simple blacksmith.

Blacksmith? I'm pretty sure there is no such role.

aren't blacksmiths townies? =P point is, i'm claiming i'm a townie.

it's like you don't even know how to claim townie.

I apologize and want to clarify my use of the term "blacksmith" It was an expression I was using to show a just a townsperson. nothing special about them. i could have said baker, or candlestick maker.

Why would you use different words? You get a role in your inbox, and that is what you are.
You can't suddenly change to a candlestick maker.
This seems like you're trying to cover up your scumslip.


VOTE: Adam-12
Almost every post you make is scummy in one way or the other, unbelievable.

And a big

FOS on Leviathan93

Sorry for the long post, but it was necessary.[/quote]

[ProHawk]

Shrimp is town. Please place a vote so I know who the scum is and thanks!

[Mantisdreamz]

though, i don't really get this post (at the time didn't get it much either)

Its a major wagon atm.

Ok, forget it.

Levi is obviously town, his explanation proves that whereas Shrimp's explanation proves he is scum.

The point is that the original case on Levi IS a good reason to vote (the only problem is Levi is town).

because Adam, weren't we just talking about how you think it's not unreasonable for Levi to be possible scum because he took long to confirm?

and then it seemed like a few posts later, you were stating that Levi was obvious town. how did you make that leap?

There are two separate things here:

1) The CASE against Levi which is strong but was dismissed by you and Shrimp
2) Levi's alignment which appears town (with the caveat about a bad newbtown claim but I actually doubt that actually)

So its one thing to talk about the validity of the case (to validate motivations for initially pushing it and invalidate motivations for decrying its validity)

but its something another to talk about his alignment which was made clear subsequent to the case being generated, right?

No of course that's fine to talk about his alignment, when you exclude the whole nonsense case on him, from the beginning.

what has he done though that looks horribly scummy?

also Adam if you are town.. i'm thinking that the back and forth between you and Shrimp is town on town.

[Mantisdreamz]

Shrimp is town. Please place a vote so I know who the scum is and thanks!

i'm not sure what this means? are you thinking i am scum, and that i'm going to place my vote on my other teammate, in order to look good(town cred, etc?)

[Adam-12]

Replying to This post

Try this link:

^^^^ Sorry this link

[Adam-12]

what has he done though that looks horribly scummy?

Nothing apart from the confirmation stall which WAS a good case even though it ended up being wrong.

It was tough, but ultimately I have Shrimp-town as well.