Open 466: Nomination Mafia - Town Wins!

[theaceofspades]

forgut to subscribe

[Top12Gun]

Nah, if we lynched scum it would be awesome.
That's the way it works. Lynch town *booo!* Lynch scum *huzzah!*
It's in the site rules somewhere.

Also, I don't think you grok WIFOM.
Also, I think my assumptions are as good (and, indeed, better) than yours.

WIFOM in that when one does something decidedly town (or scum) it could be to appear the other way. Speed lynch advocacy could be viewed in the same light: If it's obvious scum tell, then obviously scum wouldn't do it. In other words, when Devourer asked if you would do it if it was obvious scumtell, THAT was WIFOM.

But see, by speed lynching, we have less to go on. We can accomplish more going forward if we use this day fully than if we speed lynch and gather little to no info today.

And your assumptions are crap since I'm town.

[Thor665]

EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN ONE YOU SMURF!!!!!


*cough* *cough*

Okay I've read exactly one game. But the theroy holds anyway.

Orly?

"Who should I sheep and would it be a good idea to lulzhammer Rach right now?"

"Who should we be lynching, I'd like to sheep someone and then later claim it was my own brilliant plan."

"Let's 1 v 1 and see what happens."

"Who should I help speed lynch to solve both problems at once?"

"Excellent, we're speed lynching Arugula."

"We can rage lynch Benmage later"

Which comments are from me as scum and which are from me as town?
I'll wait.

[Thor665]

WIFOM in that when one does something decidedly town (or scum) it could be to appear the other way.

Actually, no.
It's getting caught up in the trap of thinking that they know you would take it one way and so did it that way to influence you...but then you have to ask if they knew *that* and thus did it that way to reverse influence you and...WIFOM.

Doing an action that can be interpreted two different ways is not wifom at all - it's reality.

Speed lynch advocacy could be viewed in the same light: If it's obvious scum tell, then obviously scum wouldn't do it. In other words, when Devourer asked if you would do it if it was obvious scumtell, THAT was WIFOM.

That is potentially wifom - except he has clearly come to a conclusion in his own mind, making it, at worst, an attempt to toss you into wifom...or, at best, an attempt to make you justify your stance...which is pro-town.

But see, by speed lynching, we have less to go on. We can accomplish more going forward if we use this day fully than if we speed lynch and gather little to no info today.

Maybe.
I'd still rather speed lynch scum than talk a lot and lynch town.

And your assumptions are Smurf since I'm town.

I'm not seeing it yet.

What's your read on aceofspades?
If you're willing to buss him I'll unvote you.

[theaceofspades]

1. Scum
2. Town
3. Town
4. Town
5. not sure

[theaceofspades]

and do not buss me. Forgive my rookie mistakes. Please don't kill me first. I'll wax your car and untangle your headphone cables.

also. My name may be aceofspades but more accurately I am the king of nonsense

[Thor665]

1. Town
2. Scum
3. Town
4. Town
5. Town

Giving you a vague 2/5 accuracy on those calls - and also showing me asking for speedlynches twice as town.

Which begs the question, what language am I using that is my 'scum language' and what game is it from?
Not that I doubt you.
But I doubt you.

[theaceofspades]

What's your read on aceofspades?
If you're willing to buss him I'll unvote you.

or you could vote thor. and eliminate the person that's gunning for you and stick together with your fellow townies. Remember the point is to lynch scum. Not who the scum say you should lynch

[Thor665]

Which begs the question, what language am I using that is my 'scum language' and what game is it from?
Not that I doubt you.
But I doubt you.

[theaceofspades]

I'm referring to the one where you monologue in the Mafia QT for about 8 bazillion posts.

Frankly your manipulation in this game smacks of a scummy strategy. Plus you have yet to explicitly counter my calling you scum. You instead are clouding the air.

Unless you're not. Then I'm completely screwed.

Frankly I pulled that comment out of my ass because I thought:
There are 2 possibles
1. THor is scum
2. Thor is not scum.
If 1 we will all be destroyed by thor because He is good at playing scum. So we must lynch him to save ourselves.
if 2 we have only wasted one day by lynching him and have protected ourselves from being bushwhacked

And my calls were completely random.com

Mainly it comes down to the fact that your speed lynch just rubbed me the wrong way

[Thor665]

I'm referring to the one where you monologue in the Mafia QT for about 8 bazillion posts.

Sadly, that doesn't actually narrow it that much for me.

Plus you have yet to explicitly counter my calling you scum. You instead are clouding the air.

Yeah, me pointing out that your meta case has no backing and is based off fluff was *totally* not me countering your case on me.

Frankly I pulled that comment out of my Smurf because

And then you admit it's fluff after I already proved as much and still are trying to claim I didn't address it.

So...

[theaceofspades]

I'm referring to the one where you monologue in the Mafia QT for about 8 bazillion posts.

It's in your sig bro.

Just saying. I'm kinda bored so I wanted to start a fight.

But anyway......


Just to clear the air. I have done nothing scummy.

I actually have done nothing at all (you're talking a lot/but you're not really saying anything)

so because you've scared me and I don't want to dieUNVOTE: Thor

VOTE: Topgun

[Thor665]

Unvote: Top12Gun
Vote: aceofspades

And balance is restored.

[theaceofspades]

you know what? screw you SCREW YOU!!!!!

UNVOTE: topgun

VOTE: thor

[theaceofspades]

{sanity system}/system rebooting...
{sanity system}/online/running diagnostic...
{sanity system}/user sanity level=silence of lambs/revising/user sanity level=Sheogorath

*ahem*

your desire to lynch me for no reason is further evidence of your status as scum Help me my fine fellow friends to fry this freaking freeloading fag for feeling fine to file me in the dead catagory

[Thor665]

Serious vote.

[Top12Gun]

WIFOM in that when one does something decidedly town (or scum) it could be to appear the other way.

Actually, no.
It's getting caught up in the trap of thinking that they know you would take it one way and so did it that way to influence you...but then you have to ask if they knew *that* and thus did it that way to reverse influence you and...WIFOM.

Doing an action that can be interpreted two different ways is not wifom at all - it's reality.

I didn't articulate very well. The definition you just gave is exactly what I was shooting for.

Speed lynch advocacy could be viewed in the same light: If it's obvious scum tell, then obviously scum wouldn't do it. In other words, when Devourer asked if you would do it if it was obvious scumtell, THAT was WIFOM.

That is potentially wifom - except he has clearly come to a conclusion in his own mind, making it, at worst, an attempt to toss you into wifom...or, at best, an attempt to make you justify your stance...which is pro-town.

But I would view his approach of just asking it like he did and not saying much more as rather unhelpful. But that could just be me.

But see, by speed lynching, we have less to go on. We can accomplish more going forward if we use this day fully than if we speed lynch and gather little to no info today.

Maybe.
I'd still rather speed lynch scum than talk a lot and lynch town.

But we can more effectively lynch scum if we take some time to find our asses than if we speed lynch some poor random fool who has a 5/7 chance to be town. Since the mafia has some control over our only power, to lynch, then we have to make the ones we have count. Your flippancy about this screams "SCUM" to me.

And your assumptions are Smurf since I'm town.

I'm not seeing it yet.

You're maf. I doubt you'd admit if you did.

What's your read on aceofspades?
If you're willing to buss him I'll unvote you.

Scum. I think you're scum even more.

Plus you have yet to explicitly counter my calling you scum. You instead are clouding the air.

Yeah, me pointing out that your meta case has no backing and is based off fluff was *totally* not me countering your case on me.

For someone who put a lot of stock in my wording, you're sorta evasive (not saying "no") yourself.

I'm referring to the one where you monologue in the Mafia QT for about 8 bazillion posts.

It's in your sig bro.

Just saying. I'm kinda bored so I wanted to start a fight.

But anyway......


Just to clear the air. I have done nothing scummy.

I actually have done nothing at all (you're talking a lot/but you're not really saying anything)

so because you've scared me and I don't want to dieUNVOTE: Thor

VOTE: Topgun

Unvote: Top12Gun
Vote: aceofspades

And balance is restored.

Bussing.

you know what? screw you SCREW YOU!!!!!

UNVOTE: topgun

VOTE: thor

Umm, thinking Ace is fail-scum. Or MAJOR fail-town. I'm going with scum. However, I think Thor is the more dangerous of the two. So sticking with him.

[theaceofspades]

I'm really very extra sure that thor is scum. He rose to my bait so beautifully. If he was town and saw me behaving like an idiot he would have just ignored me. Since he didn't ignore my obvious idiot smoke blowing he is more likely to be scum. Unless he's just a freak who enjoys arguing with morons. which. I guess could be true. But I think it's unlikely.

[Thor665]

The level of derp in this game is already at frightening levels.

I'm just going to note that more people should be sheeping me.

[Devourer359]

VOTE: Ace. While I can't see a scum acting so ridiculously scummy, I hope that no townie would actually play so badly. And because there's no jester in this game, this is the most reasonable vote right now.

WIFOM, pure and simple.

Explain to me how this is suspicious instead of a null tell.

I can only see a mafia having two reasons for doing what he did, to gain trust in the townies' eyes and to actually attempt to lynch someone. The first reason is basically null, as making what would most likely be interpreted as a joke vote has no effect on his innocence. While his vote can't mark him as scum, it obviously does not mark him as town.

In the case of actually attempting to lynch someone, he'll be forced to change his vote when discussion actually arrives, as more legitimate reasons for voting will appear and not doing so would be scummy. And if he lurks to get away with it, that in itself is a scumtell and an inefficient strategy due to activity rules. Besides, simply manipulating the town is much more efficient. So what does a mafia have to gain from that sort of vote?

And your assumptions are crap since I'm town.

Why do you feel the need to stick this into your post?

I'd still rather speed lynch scum than talk a lot and lynch town.

So were you serious with your vote advocating speed lynching?

But I would view his approach of just asking it like he did and not saying much more as rather unhelpful. But that could just be me.

All I wanted was a response with your reasoning. Why would I need to say anything more?

Bussing.

How would this derive any benefit for Thor? It doesn't make Thor look innocent in any way, as Ace is the obvious candidate for lynch and none of his scumminess owes any debt to Thor.

He rose to my bait so beautifully. If he was town and saw me behaving like an idiot he would have just ignored me.

Explain why a townie would ignore excessive scumtells when a jester doesn't exist.

[Thor665]

I'd still rather speed lynch scum than talk a lot and lynch town.

So were you serious with your vote advocating speed lynching?

I dunno - I've never managed to get a speed lynch when I asked for it.

[Fujiko]

Vote Count 1.2

Thor665 - 2 (TopGun12, theaceofspades)
theaceofspades - 2 (Thor665, Devourer359)
TopGun12 - 1 (Rainbowdash)

Not voting - 2 (Toroid, Name User)

4 to lynch.
Deadline: (expired on 2012-12-11 21:15:00)

[Rainbowdash]

My vote is still is in the right spot, TAOS is very policy lynch worthy but when T12 is already enough of a scum read im happy going this direction. A scum flip from either is enough to snap lynch the other though.

Basically look at T12, most of the game is getting hung up on something that outside of a call for a policy lynch or information to back up, is a joke or move to end RVS. Thats about all he concentrates on though, what really bugs me about him though is his ignorance of the whole TAOS meltdown. Heck as TOWN im a little uneasy poking at him so if he is town... I dont think scum would ever want to mess with that because TAOS is basically a talking RNG as far as I can tell that just counterattacks anything.

I dont get how you just completely ignore something like this, but he does sorta mention it by calling TAOS scummy in passing, but avoids all types of confrontation. Scum is always far more uneasy getting into confrontation, especially in nightless games where if they screw that up bad, they are in hot water. Mix that with harping on a null tell that is pretty manufactered, I think he is more likely scum trying to stay out of stuff. If he is scum, Thor is town and TAOS... I dunno... I could see scum but as I keep thinking about it how nervous of him T12 seems makes me think town.

[Thor665]

I'll agree they're both terrible, I don't think that's a debate point.

But look at Ace - he calls me out for not doing something, then admits my point about it was correct...and somehow I'm scum because of that exchange. Does not compute.
You seem to have play experience with him - does he lack any sense of internal logic as town?

[Thor665]

Conversely, just to be the advocate - T12's case is pretty silly. But, you don't actually need to squint to grok what he's saying. The worst I could say there is that he doesn't understand what he's talking about as far as tells go - but there's internal logic with how he's reacting to those tells, which tends to suggest that he believes what he's saying, and that suggests he's town for this push because he's attempting to scumhunt in the best way he can.

Ace is blatantly lying/trolling and seems to be banking on acting so bad that he shouldn't be run up while admitting he's playing immensely scummy. That means it's his playstyle (and a shoddy one at that) but th elack of logic in how a tell flows shows that he's just in attack mode and doesn't care why he gets there. Look at the hop to T12 for no reason - he did it to push the lynch and didn't want to be held accountable.