NY 160: Terrible Melodrama Mafia (Game Over)

[RedCoyote]

They actually have, UT. Go back and look at his predictions if you don't believe me. You think I'm just pulling this out of my ass?

STRONG WORK, RC, STRONG WORK

Thank you. I try.

[adorkable]

We're replacing out. I got behind like a month ago and never felt like catching up on the game and its many textwalls, and Pie I guess really hasn't wanted to play by himself.

Apologies for the inconvenience.

[Untrod Tripod]

They actually have, UT. Go back and look at his predictions if you don't believe me. You think I'm just pulling this out of my ass?

STRONG WORK, RC, STRONG WORK

Thank you. I try.

we have very different definitions of good, then. I think you're pulling it out of your ass and hoping no one will go back and actually read the game.

[DeasVail]

Nostredeus replaces adorkable.

Vote Count 3.02

Untrod Tripod (4)- Empking, Plan B, JacobSavage, RedCoyote
Nostredeus (2)- 4nxi3ty, Gentlemen Bastards
Empking (1)- Untrod Tripod
4nxi3ty (1)- N

Not voting: F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Nostredeus

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline

9th December, 10pm AEDT

[Nostredeus]

Hi guys, give me just a second; I picked up the pm less than a minute ago. I'll read the thread now.

[Nostredeus]

Wow this is a damn messy game...

So I got bored reading everyone's ISOs, I might read some more of them if it seems useful. A few thoughts:

At first glance I wanted to give piggy some serious rope, after the claim I'd have chilled too; I'm not sure why everyone else thought it was worth burning the D1 lynch there instead of D2 or D3.

Having said that the way in which Demon Core pushed for the hammer screamed town rather than opportunistic scum; DC can have town cred for that.

The Gentleman-B slot and the 4nxi3ty slot look like they need rope; super sketchy jumping the Nero wagon for the Piggy wagon.

Nero gets suspicion because they did that. (But dies N2 so w.e)

----D1 over----


Day 2's lynch just makes me want to heap the rope on GB and 4anxi3ty.

Empking can join the GB, 4anxi3ty scum read list after the lynch.

----D2 over----

UT is clearly town. I'm still deciding what that implies for DY but given the scum read on Emp i'm actually leading town there too and probably UT/DY should reassess each other, neither of them are helping town whilst probably both being town.

Emp get's more suspicion today too, no idea how you guys have let him/her coast through like that.

Post #585.

The Nero claim was clearly legit so I'm not sure why #577 matters at all to me beyond it being a terrible reason for lynching this slot.


Scum: Emp, GB, 4anxi3ty
FoS: RedCoyote
Town: DoomCore, UT and probably DoomYoshi
Everyone else: meh.


VOTE: Empking




(There's probably -if pressed- a few other reasons why my reads are as they are but I'm not adding another wall of text to this clusterfrak, so will play forwards from this point; if people want to highlight a decent case that I should sit up and pay attention to they can, if not, meh I think I've seen all I need to.)

[Untrod Tripod]

doomyoshi is dead and flipped scum

how did you not know that?

[Nostredeus]

Whoops you're right, that was an old draft. Sorry guys, my reads are obviously still the same with Emp needing rope.

[Nostredeus]

The same is true of the doomcore town read; obviously.

[Nostredeus]

EBWOsomanyposts: *demoncore. Dis phone.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Empire, your suspicion on me based on meta doesn't make sense as you haven't actually linked a scum game of mine. I play differently as town every game. Lack of a scum game for comparison invalidates most of the meta research.

Regfan, why do you feel that scum would restrict their activity when there are two wagons on town as opposed to at any other time? Not sure I follow that logic as that seems to be your case on the adorkable slot.

Regarding Empking/DY/UT interactions, 203 and 204 between UT and DY could potentially be interpreted as scum-scum interactions but I am not very confident on that. What I am confident about though is UT saying that DY is scum with Empking and continuing to push the Piggy wagon. I read through the posts. DY asks Empking how it is possible to get a read on UT since UT hasn't posted. I don't see anything very unusual between DY and Empking.

@ UT, explain 365. Why did you feel at that point that DY and Empking are scum together. You say that 337-341 read as scum-scum interaction to you. What is the reasoning behind that?

DY's 404 however is a point in favor of UT. DY wonders if UT is an SK. From a scum POV, I can see him legitimately wondering if UT is in fact an SK since DY would know for a fact that UT isn't in his scum faction. UT's 436 points to DY/UT scumteam because he FOSsed Emp and DY together as being on a scumteam and then voted Empking.

GB's 442, you ask Empking why Empking finds UT/DY interactions scum-scum but why do you choose to ask that question to Empking as opposed to asking the question to UT about why he feels that Emp/DY team makes sense? As far as I can see, UT is the one who was pushing DY/Emp far more than Emp was pushing DY/UT pairing. Makes sense to pose the question to UT, doesn't it, if not to both players?

I'll wait to hear UT's response on this.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Oh, and I wanted to mention, if we have any other investigative roles, I think it would be wise for them to consider coming out now.

Why?

[Gentlemen Bastards]

RC, we both found Post 600 very 'wtf' from you. Empkings reads list is in Post 337, you claim to have a strong town-read on us which makes his prior Senjai scum-read wrong, Piggy flipped town thus it's a read wrong, Doom was correct and UT I'm fairly sure is also wrong but lets say for the sake it's in the balance. That means his reads at the moment are 1/3 correct re; scum-reads so you just brainlessly sheeping him for 'good reads' isn't like you at all.

A)(In order of how they were in the post)
1) Nero gets suspicion because they did that. (But dies N2 so w.e)
2) UT is clearly town. I'm still deciding what that implies for DY but given the scum read on Emp i'm actually leading town there too and probably UT/DY should reassess each other, neither of them are helping town whilst probably both being town.
3) Town: DoomCore, UT and probably DoomYoshi

B)1) The Gentleman-B slot and the 4nxi3ty slot look like they need rope; super sketchy jumping the Nero wagon for the Piggy wagon.
2) Day 2's lynch just makes me want to heap the rope on GB and 4anxi3ty.

Starting with A1) shows that you've seen who dies and the manner and timing of where you put it in there shows that you've learned through looking at the OP rather than just bumping across it when reading through the game later. And if you've looked at the OP you'd have realized who else was dead - DoomYoshi and DemonCore however you list both of them as alive. Not just that but you've listed DemonCore as DoomCore, the entire thing comes across as a very forced attempt to fake-town-tell by 'pretending' not to know who was dead.

As for B) again if you'd have caught up properly you'd have noticed that we replaced in two days or so before the deadline with our predecessor having his vote on Nero whereas we didn't share the scum-read that he had on the slot but rather had a scum-read on Piggy, something you said earlier in your post that you'd have likely shared in the situation. So you attempting to claim to find our 'move of vote' towards Piggy upon replacing in as a scum-tell makes zero sense whatsoever and is just you bullshitting reads and pre-planning to push back on us given that we'd put a case against your predecessor. Factor in that 4nxiety is also pushing your slot with us and you've just claimed scum-reads on everyone pushing you.

1) Empire, your suspicion on me based on meta doesn't make sense as you haven't actually linked a scum game of mine. I play differently as town every game. Lack of a scum game for comparison invalidates most of the meta research.

2) Regfan, why do you feel that scum would restrict their activity when there are two wagons on town as opposed to at any other time? Not sure I follow that logic as that seems to be your case on the adorkable slot.

3) GB's 442, you ask Empking why Empking finds UT/DY interactions scum-scum but why do you choose to ask that question to Empking as opposed to asking the question to UT about why he feels that Emp/DY team makes sense? As far as I can see, UT is the one who was pushing DY/Emp far more than Emp was pushing DY/UT pairing. Makes sense to pose the question to UT, doesn't it, if not to both players?

In regards to 1) you do have a scum-game that we're comparing your play to (Hint; It's on your main) and he thinks your play resembles that more than any of your town games by a mile, if you want us to link it we will but figured we'd show some restraint and not just post it. Re: 2) When there's two town wagons that means that if nothing were to change throughout the day then scum have avoided the lynch for sure, it's a guaranteed thing however if something changes then odds are at least one of them remain and can be pushed through from scum, that means they don't need to do anything drastic throughout the day and instead can just make sure they don't fuck themselves by going against the grain or putting themselves in the spotlight. In situations when it's not competing town wagons though then scum are in risk of being lynched and thus have to be active to attempt to avoid it or manipulate it to save a partner. 3) is something that should be fairly obvious; I don't think UT would respond with anything worthwhile nor change his mind, I consider him relatively useless whereas I know Empking actually plays logically and second thinks things when he's not completely set in a tunnel.

[Nostredeus]

So A rests on the assumption that I read the OP made up some crap about Nero that just happened to be what my slot thought then miss spelt demoncore even though it explicitly says the correct spelling in the OP and then tried to leverage that? Yeah, err, okay then... Alternatively I might have miss spelt demoncore because there is a player called doomyoshi and I've just read 25 pages in a ridiculously short period of time. But w.e I'll let the town decide which is more likely.

If B was true why would I be voting for empking right now? I'm sure you've got something convoluted to say about that too right?(As for the vote swap based on your predecessors, that's nice for you but to paraphrase another player from a different game "This isn't church, the sins of the father aren't absolved because you replaced in".)


All of that reads like a bag of air being used to defend a scumbuddy; rope to empking guys, it's making GB pop hard.

[Empking]

Piggy flipped town thus it's a read wrong, Doom was correct and UT I'm fairly sure is also wrong but lets say for the sake it's in the balance.

That's unfair, I said wghem making the list that Piggy and DY weren't both scum.

Nos: How did you come to the conclusion, after reading day two, that DY's current posting wasn't helping the town?

[Nostredeus]

I thought both were likely town as I read through (evidently I was wrong) and was saying the interaction between UT and DY wasn't therefore helping town. (also apparently wrong)

LA until Sunday

[4nxi3ty]

Scum: Emp, GB, 4anxi3ty
FoS: RedCoyote

(There's probably -if pressed- a few other reasons why my reads are as they are

well I'm pressing.

[Plan B]

On a related subject, what's with your sudden interest in suspecting N? I seem to recall you trying to undercut the efforts that DC and I made to get N under some pressure earlier.

Not at all sure what gave you that impression? Remind me where?

So you're saying it's unlikely that a group that was on both lynching wagons is unlikely to be all town? But then when you make a list of who you think is scum, the group is more skewed towards being town than not?

Yes, I believe the group is predominantly Town. Do you agree, or disagree?

Comments on/questions to Nostredeus later. Not at all inclined to remove suspicion from that slot, though.

[RedCoyote]

I think you're pulling it out of your ass and hoping no one will go back and actually read the game.

RC, we both found Post 600 very 'wtf' from you. Empkings reads list is in Post 337, you claim to have a strong town-read on us which makes his prior Senjai scum-read wrong, Piggy flipped town thus it's a read wrong, Doom was correct and UT I'm fairly sure is also wrong but lets say for the sake it's in the balance. That means his reads at the moment are 1/3 correct re; scum-reads so you just brainlessly sheeping him for 'good reads' isn't like you at all.

To build on what Empking already alluded to, y'all are both discounting how well he has been doing thus far. Let me illustrate:

• Very Town

  
  JacobSavage

  Probably Right

  
  
  

  Town

  
  adorkable
  Demon Core

  RIGHT

  
  Nero Cain

  RIGHT

  
  Plan B

  Probably Right

  
  Cletus+Brandine

  Probably Right

  
  Toon Fighter

  RIGHT

  
  
  

  Null

  
  RedCoyote Number Six

  Half Right

  
  N
  4nxi3ty
  
  

  Scum

  
  Senjai
  PiggyGal15 (not with Doom)

  RIGHT

  
  DoomYoshi (not with Piggy)

  RIGHT

  
  Untrod Tripod

  Probably Right

I think that's a pretty damn good track record right there.

As to GB's point about me sheeping, would it help if I gave y'all some town meta of me doing this? I know how valuable that is to both of y'all. I don't mind following the leader if I don't believe I have a good grasp on the game. It doesn't mean that I won't contribute, but I think nothing wrong with calling out townreads and then joining up with them. I'll still scrutinize Empking or Plan B if I deem necessary, but as of now they've both got my support to continue in the way they have been.

---

Why?

Why not? We're at D3. Most of the players seem to be unsure of themselves. I think the town is missing a natural leader here. GB and Plan B are doing okay, but they seem to be acting a little too complimtative. Empking would be fine if more people signed on to him, but that's always tough to do for him, I think.

I've come to the realization that looking through DY is pointless. DY did a good job concealing his alliances. I think an some results could help us nail someone today. If the scum have any sort of Role Cop, there go two nights of free investigations for them to find their N3 target.

---

Not at all sure what gave you that impression? Remind me where?

I retract this point upon closer examination of your ISO.

---

On an unrelated note, I don't know how Nost gets to his scumread on me given that he didn't ever mention me or Number Six in his catchup post. You'd think he'd slip something in there like "didn't like X post" or something.

[Untrod Tripod]

Very Town

JacobSavage

Probably Right

Town

adorkable
Demon Core

RIGHT

Nero Cain

RIGHT

Plan B

Probably Right

Cletus+Brandine

Probably Right

Toon Fighter

RIGHT

Null

RedCoyote Number Six

Half Right

N
4nxi3ty

Scum

Senjai
PiggyGal15 (not with Doom)

RIGHT

DoomYoshi (not with Piggy)

RIGHT

Untrod Tripod

Probably Right

Where do I even begin with this. First of all,

Piggy flipped town

, so either we're reading different games, or you just got that completely wrong, or you're being wrong intentionally, or whatever. Second, those probably's don't count for jack shit. They don't count for correct reads. They're meaningless. Unless you're scum, you don't know ANY of the alignments of unflipped players other than yourself. Blah blah his reads might sorta correspond with yours, whatever, but that doesn't give someone a good track record. Hell, I could random.org a list of reads and probably get at least 2/3 of my townreads correct and probably hit one scum. You're showing us a list of reads with about the accuracy of randomly guessing and hoping no one will realize it's average at best.

Third, and this is more of a semantic point, null isn't "half-right". It's just nothing. Null alignment isn't a thing.

I'm starting to feel a DY, Empking, RC scumteam here. The lengths you're going to in an attempt to talk up Empking are ridiculous.

___________________

GB: I don't know what your problem is with me, but I'm not going to bother responding to you for the remainder of the game.

_________________________________

F16:

I read that interaction as scum asking for direction from other scum. It looks less to me like a request for an explanation and more like "you probably should explain that post a little better, it looks scummy..."

It was a gut read, I'll admit, but I'm sticking by it.

[RedCoyote]

Scum

Senjai
PiggyGal15 (not with Doom)

RIGHT

PiggyGal15 (not with Doom)

RIGHT

(not with Doom)

[Untrod Tripod]

...it's still a scum read.

[Nostredeus]

Wow, I expected scum might pop but that's crazy.

[N]

Cookie monster's replace in post was horrible. Most of it has already been questioned (and then carefully not answered), so there's not much new to say there.

At first glance I wanted to give piggy some serious rope, after the claim I'd have chilled too; I'm not sure why everyone else thought it was worth burning the D1 lynch there instead of D2 or D3.

Having said that the way in which Demon Core pushed for the hammer screamed town rather than opportunistic scum; DC can have town cred for that.

The Gentleman-B slot and the 4nxi3ty slot look like they need rope; super sketchy jumping the Nero wagon for the Piggy wagon.

Nero gets suspicion because they did that. (But dies N2 so w.e)

----D1 over----

When you first say you think Demon Core's hammer gave him town cred, I thought this must be a running commentary, but then you got to the bit about Nero Cain dying n2, so obviously you've read the first post and know who's died.

Day 2's lynch just makes me want to heap the rope on GB and 4anxi3ty.

Empking can join the GB, 4anxi3ty scum read list after the lynch.

----D2 over----

Why? What did GB and Anxiety do d2 that was so horrible?

UT is clearly town. I'm still deciding what that implies for DY but given the scum read on Emp i'm actually leading town there too and probably UT/DY should reassess each other, neither of them are helping town whilst probably both being town.

Emp get's more suspicion today too, no idea how you guys have let him/her coast through like that.

Post #585. :roll:

The Nero claim was clearly legit so I'm not sure why #577 matters at all to me beyond it being a terrible reason for lynching this slot. :roll:

How can you read up to d3 and say "UT/DY should reassess each other", even if you did manage to miss that DY was dead? DY hasn't said anything since d1; didn't you think that was weird?

And I don't understand why you're talking about #577 and #585 being good/bad reasons for lynching Nero Cain, who had already died before they were made. You already said you knew Nero died n2, so how does this add up?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nost

So you're saying it's unlikely that a group that was on both lynching wagons is unlikely to be all town? But then when you make a list of who you think is scum, the group is more skewed towards being town than not?

Yes, I believe the group is predominantly Town. Do you agree, or disagree?

So, in your opinion, the entire wagon on a claimed town power role on day 1 was town? I find that unlikely.

[Gentlemen Bastards]

Been busy with final exams coming up next week and the other head's been away, will get a post in replying to Nostredeus soon but suffice it to say that his posts should pretty much be cementing your votes that way.