Micro 66 - Robo's F11 (Game Over)

[Robocopter87]

Alright so look. My comp is down AGAIN. This time its totally out.

This is going to keep me out for an unknown period of time. But since having a computer is like having kidneys, I'm going to get it done ASAP.

Unofficial vote counts are authorized but not to be relied on due to them being unofficial. Seeing as its so god awful even writing a simple post on my phone. Don't go crazy though. Seriously.

If a lynch is reached then PM me. Please. It'll get my attention 100% faster.

Thanks.

[Mitillos]

@Tracey: You misrepresented what I said about Thor. See the answer for the explanation. And if Thor had been scum, he'd be more worried about Nacho than the rest of us. Nacho's reads could change; just because he thought Thor was town doesn't mean he wouldn't at some point read him as scum instead. As for Violet, he keeps repeating the same things, which don't seem to constitute a good enough case, to my mind, at least. For Riggs, just because it's potentially just posting style doesn't make it non-scummy. He has posted, but his posts haven't been too helpful, I think. The reason I'm not sheeping came much earlier. Look further back in my ISO. The bout with Thor didn't sit right with me, in terms of Violet's alignment; not Thor's.
Voting can wait. It's not like I can only place my vote at specific time intervals. Ignoring the other questions, because they seem silly or unclear.

p-edit: Yeah, definitely not voting now. It can wait.

[Cheery Dog]

What makes it necessary for Thor to be scrutinised is that Nacho died and is the only player Thor seems to respect

You're still not scrutinising him yourself, why should everyone else have to this for you?
When none of us believe he needs scrutinised more because of it, looks like you want town to start attacking him while leaving yourself out of the attack, even if you're the one wanting it.

UNVOTE: gnr
VOTE: Mit

[Mitillos]

@Cheery: Except I did ask him questions and I think he's town, from his answers. How is that not scrutinising?

[Cheery Dog]

Let's see now...

Spoiler:

OK, firstly, @Cheery: No, it doesn't make Thor obv-town. I already gave a counter to his "if PMyst is town, lynch Nacho" thing. If anything, Thor should be put under more scrutiny, because the only player he seems to have any respect for was Nacho.

NK analysis can sometimes be helpful. In this case, I think it might not be, since anyone could have easily been behind the kill, for whatever reason. I agree with Thor though, that the main reason for scum killing someone is that they're so town they won't be lynched. Of course, then they can do the WIFOM thing and let them live so that people will suspect them of being too townie to be alive and so on.

As for me "avoiding the thread", would I pull a PMyst like that, after attacking him so much for avoiding the thread throughout day 1? Don't be silly. I just didn't know we started and I always look for my games thread by thread. I thought this one had not started yet.

However, I am surprised you guys didn't lynch me yet, for leading that mislynch. I'm guessing that the mafia team felt that they could let someone else start a wagon on me first (e.g Mala) and then jump in, or that I might lead another mislynch. Oh well.

Anyway, had PMyst flipped scum, my main suspects now would have been Tracey and Mala. As he didn't, I don't know whom to suspect.
@Thor: Should I sheep you? If so, why? If not, whom should I sheep?
@Tracey: Who are your second and third scummiest reads, excluding me, and why?
@Mala: Even if I was avoiding the thread, how would that have been scummy?
@Violet: weren't you also calling it yesterday, as well? Nothing much seems to have changed in your arguments.

p-edit: @Violet: On the other hand, Nacho

did

suspect you. It's far less likely, I think, that only the mafia team "suspects" one townie, than one of the team giving suspicions on two.

I think I might be cool with a Violet wagon, but I don't want to rush like yesterday and cause another mislynch.

This is where you first said he should have been more scutinising, you asked him whether you should sheep him, this indicates a townread here and not scrutiny.

@Mala: I set no trap. I expected people to have voted for me already. They didn't. That was that. Also, I might be cool with a Violet wagon, because I think he might be scum. I don't know whether or not he will be a mislynch, or even a lynch, because I don't know his alignment. Which is why I don't want to rush into voting him. Perhaps it would have been clearer if I said "potentially cause another mislynch".
If you want it more clearly: My read on Violet right now is null leaning scum.

@Cheery: Well, I asked him (and others) a couple of questions. I am waiting for his answers.

p-edits start here.

@Thor: It happened to be right above another thread I'm playing. Also, I meant should I be voting Violet? If so, why? What is your case on him?

@Violet: I didn't ignore it. I just pointed out a counter-point. But the fact remains that, if Tracey and Thor are scumbuddies, they're working together to attack you, with not much support from the town. Wouldn't that be a rather bold move? Wouldn't they be more likely to have one person push and another hold back until the wagon got some steam? Because right now they'd needlessly be putting themselves in too weak a position, particularly if you were lynched and flipped town.

Still indicating a probable town read here.

@Mala: For protecting him too much. But since he was town, it's moot.

@Violet: You know Tracey. From your knowledge of her, is this how she generally behaves? Would she be jumping between accusing you and me yesterday if she is scum?

@Thor: No, you shouldn't. (Unless you're scum. Then you should totally vote me.) But I could see how I might have been an easy mislynch target today. I'm not entirely sure what you're asking there with the PMyst wagon. Could you clarify? And I don't think I will sheep you at this time, but at least now I'm more convinced you are town.

@Violet: If Thor is town, is Tracey still scum? If Tracey is town, is Thor still scum? Why or why not? If neither is scum, who is your next biggest scumread?

@GNR: Now that you're back and more active, who is scum?

I guess that question could technically count as scrutinising him by having him clarify something, but it's not any more scuntiny than what is given to everyone else, which you say should have been given.

@Thor: The PMyst wagon wasn't scummy, but it was on a PR. People don't always decide who is scum by their actions, but by the results from them. In this case, the result of the wagon was that we lost our doctor. I would have expected both scum and town to attack me for the PMyst wagon, not because of its motivation, but because of its result.

@Mala: Not towards the end, but early on. Or at least I was under the impression you did. Maybe I was mistaken, but it makes little difference now.

This is a response from Thor scrutinising you, not the other way around.

I didn't say the result was scummy. I said the result would be an excuse for others to attack me. And town wouldn't necessarily attack me immediately, but there had been quite a few posts between the day starting and me actually getting here. In any case, I wasn't attacked, which is good, since it means the town cares more about motivations than other things. But you can't deny that this isn't the case with all players and that some players would, in fact, have attacked me, given PMyst's flip.
Think of it like Nacho's statement that he'd expect one of you and himself to be killed overnight (which was accurate). My expectation was not accurate, which is a good thing in this case, but it was a possibility.

More of you being scrutinised yourself.

No thanks, I'm good. You say Violet is scum. If he is, who is his most likely scumpartner and why?

Seriously how are these types of questions scrutinising him?

@Tracey: Way to misrepresent, yet again. What makes it necessary for Thor to be scrutinised is that Nacho died and is the only player Thor seems to respect. If Thor were scum, he'd go for Nacho first. My read on Violet changed because of the various posts between the two you list. Which should be fairly obvious. Riggs is still leaning scum, because of his lurkiness. And I already said why I was not sheeping the wagon. An additional reason is that I think you might be scum, trying to get a second mislynch and put us in LyLo.

I have town reads on Thor, Mala and Cheery. I think that the mafia team is in Tracey, Violet, Riggs. In both cases, reads are in descending order of strength. The latest bout with Thor, about being on the wagon and so on doesn't sit right with me.

@Thor: Is Tracey town, null or scum? Why?

@Cheery: How is Thor clearing himself? He sort of voted for PMyst, after the hammer, so he is on the wagon too, in a sense.

@Mala: You seem to be saying that I am scum. If so, why, and who is my partner? If not, who is scum and why aren't you voting them, instead?

This post I just quoted before, you have said that it was necessary for Thor to be scrutinised in it, the only scruntinising here is asking about what his reads are, which with someone as experienced as Thor won't make any scumslips if he were scum from them.

@Cheery: Except I did ask him questions and I think he's town, from his answers. How is that not scrutinising?

because your questions were from a perspective where you were already reading him as town.

While I could be misunderstanding what you mean by scrutinise, I don't see you as having scrutinised Thor any more than everyone else, and barely scrutinised him for anything about how he is scum. What you have done is ask a lot of people for reads, which I don't even see how that works as a front for attack.

@Tracey: You misrepresented what I said about Thor. See the answer for the explanation. And if Thor had been scum, he'd be more worried about Nacho than the rest of us. Nacho's reads could change; just because he thought Thor was town doesn't mean he wouldn't at some point read him as scum instead. As for Violet, he keeps repeating the same things, which don't seem to constitute a good enough case, to my mind, at least. For Riggs, just because it's potentially just posting style doesn't make it non-scummy. He has posted, but his posts haven't been too helpful, I think. The reason I'm not sheeping came much earlier. Look further back in my ISO. The bout with Thor didn't sit right with me, in terms of Violet's alignment; not Thor's.

Why would a Thor-scum be more worried about Nacho than everyone else? We are all capable players of being able to identify a Thor-scum (well I assume we are, none of us are in our first game, so we should be able to work out the scum tells from the town tells) and all of our reads may change throughout the game, not just Nacho's read of Thor.
I believe Thor is also respecting Tracey this game, if it's because he was sheeping her, it's about normal for what Thor does when replacing into a game.

I also don't understand your last point here, how does talking about sheeping someone onto one of your own scumreads, give you doubt about that suspects alignment?

[Thor665]

I don't remember my attacking your read on me. And I just skimmed back and couldn't find it. Could you clarify?

That would be that entire conversation about you lying as town/scum.
Don't derp.

[Mitillos]

@Cheery: If you didn't like my questions towards Thor, that's fine. But I did not ask them under the assumption that he is town. I asked them to see what he would say and how he would say it. As for the Nacho thing, I believe Thor-scum would go for the most experienced player first. No silly things about who suspects whom, no trying to find PRs from nothingness, no relying on his twilight case. If I am wrong, Thor, could you correct me?
As for your last question, I'm not sure I understand it. Or alternatively, you didn't understand what I said. One of the two. Could you clarify? Use names.

[Thor665]

As scum I generally always use early kills to kill players I think are good *and* that will be hard to mislynch. I see it as reasonable to suggest I killed Nacho, I see it as odd to suggest I had more reason to kill Nacho than other players.

That work?

[Malakittens]

Alright. Going to be v/la til Monday night. Got a bunch of tests to study for and work this weekend.
Ill try and post a little bit, but not certain.

[Robocopter87]

Alright! Equinox has very generously offered his assistance as a backup mod while I'm out of play.

He is your new god for less than a week.

If he tells you to jump, then out say, "How high?" If he tells you to eat a crayon, you say, "What color?"

Get the picture? Good.

Welcome and thank Equinox.

Thanks again Equinox.

[Equinox]

• This is totally an official vote count. In other news, Guy_Named_Riggs has been prodded.

__________

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Vote Count

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• TraceyLyn11 [1] Violet
  
• Cheery Dog [1] Guy_Named_Riggs
  
• Malakittens [0]
  
• Mitillos [2] Malakittens, Cheery Dog
  
• Thor665 [0]
  
• Violet [2] Thor665, TraceyLyn11

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Not Voting

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:

• Mitillos

:

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Amount to Lynch

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• With 7 Alive it is 4 to Lynch.

:

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Deadline

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:

• 11:59 PM of December 15^th, EST.

__________

[Mitillos]

Welcome new mod.
Alright, I think it's time I do this:

Vote: Violet

That is L-1.

[Thor665]

Unvote: Volet

[Guy_Named_Riggs]

Welcome new mod.
Alright, I think it's time I do this:

Vote: Violet

That is L-1.

Explain your vote. It seems as if you were waiting for something to happen and very out of place.

Will post more later tonight.

[Violet]

His vote has a lot more explanation than Thor's. At least he has a reason.

[Cheery Dog]

@mit the questions you asked may work if you've just replaced in and not reading, but when you've been in the game from the start, you should have reads on all players. Asking whether you should sheep someone personally and/or who you should sheep just doesn't look like something sensible to a possible scum read you're scrutinizing.

The last point I was talking about was the last sentence of the quote I placed outside the spoiler. I asked it in theory terms so you may have been able to explain how it would be a good idea to do it without writing the circumstances in which it opportunity happened in this game. (to then see if it lined up with what has happened) but it you need names.
How did you bout with thor give you doubt on violet's alignment?

[Thor665]

His vote has a lot more explanation than Thor's. At least he has a reason.

How does he have more reason than I?

[Mitillos]

@Cheery: I was trying to see what Thor really thinks of his vote. I guess we have an answer now. The bout with Thor thing seemed like a weak defense of a somewhat unnecessary action.

Now we're in this situation: Either Thor is scum who doesn't want to be associated with the Violet wagon, for whatever reason, or he's town who doesn't want a quicklynch on his town-read by the scumteam. I don't think scum-Thor would do the first one. So I'm inclined to believe that Thor does not actually have a scum read on Violet. If so,
@Thor: Who are your actual scum reads? Playing along with a wagon to see what you catch is all well and good, but at this point you should tell us what you really think and who is scum.

As for my reason for voting, I think Violet is scum. His defense from the Tracey attack didn't convince me, his reasoning for a Tracey/Thor team seems weak. What I was waiting to happen was for my patience to run out, with nothing else happening. It finally did, so I placed my vote.

[Thor665]

@Mitillos - I actually do have a scumread on Violet, I was just curious who would come for the ride. That it was you, and that the wagons looked like they did when you made your shift is leaving me wondering.

Violet's reaction looks hyper bad too.

I kind of want half the players here dead, it's not a healthy place to be.

[TraceyLyn11]

You misrepresented what I said about Thor. See the answer for the explanation.

Well, it doesn't matter what your response was. I still couldn't have misrepresented you by asking a non-loaded question.

And if Thor had been scum, he'd be more worried about Nacho than the rest of us. Nacho's reads could change; just because he thought Thor was town doesn't mean he wouldn't at some point read him as scum instead.

How did I know you'd say this? Yes, Nacho's reads could change. But, as Cheery pointed out, so could everyone else's. Not to mention it'd be unlikely for Thor to be a day two lynch even if Nacho was pushing hard for him. He's powerful in his own right.

As for Violet, he keeps repeating the same things, which don't seem to constitute a good enough case, to my mind, at least.

So he's scummy for repetition and bad case-making skills?

The reason I'm not sheeping came much earlier. Look further back in my ISO.

Ctrl+Fing "sheep" didn't find it, so I don't know what you're talking about. Care to quote it for me?

Voting can wait. It's not like I can only place my vote at specific time intervals. Ignoring the other questions, because they seem silly or unclear.

But why wait?

They aren't silly. Please answer them. If you find them unclear, ask:

Spoiler:

An additional reason is that I think you might be scum, trying to get a second mislynch and put us in LyLo.

Anyway, had PMyst flipped scum, my main suspects now would have been Tracey and Mala. As he didn't, I don't know whom to suspect.

Uh?

I have town reads on Thor, Mala and Cheery. I think that the mafia team is in Tracey, Violet, Riggs.

Why is Mala town and I scum?

If you think Vio is likely to be scum, wouldn't it make sense to vote him rather than not voting (especially since he actually has a wagon behind him already)?

The latest bout with Thor, about being on the wagon and so on doesn't sit right with me.

Then why do you have Thor as your strongest town read...?

p-edit: Yeah, definitely not voting now. It can wait.

Ten posts later...

Vote: Violet

I don't remember my attacking your read on me. And I just skimmed back and couldn't find it. Could you clarify?

That would be that entire conversation about you lying as town/scum.
Don't derp.

OH. That. I still don't remember attacking your read on me, but yeah, I think I know what you're referring to.

As scum I generally always use early kills to kill players I think are good *and* that will be hard to mislynch. I see it as reasonable to suggest I killed Nacho, I see it as odd to suggest I had more reason to kill Nacho than other players.

That work?

Unvote: Volet

These make me feel good.

@Thor: What's your read on Cheery?

@Vio: You have ignored several of my questions. Please go back and answer them.

[Mitillos]

@Tracey: Of course it was loaded. Needing more scrutiny is not the same as being scummy. In addition, Thor having less respect for other players is not the issue, in and of itself; the point was that Nacho died. The lack of context is a misrepresentation. And yeah, Thor is powerful, but eliminating the strongest players is just the most logical thing to do. And if Thor were scum, I imagine he'd want to eliminate Nacho, first and foremost. Violet is scummy because from how you talk about him, I think he'd be able to make more varied and better arguments. Additionally, ignoring your questions (as you pointed out) and attacking the wagon on him are also evidence of scumminess.
As for voting, I was waiting to see if anything would happen. Then I lost my patience and voted. Lo and behold, something happened. I also didn't want to sheep too early because of the result yesterday. I misled the town and we lost the doc. I won't take full responsibility for that, but it was partly my fault. And it's the first time I made such a big mistake. Also, it wasn't just 10 posts later. It was also 17 hours later. Not to mention I'd been holding off on my vote for quite some time, by that point.

As for your other questions, fine, I will look at them. What do you mean by "Uh?"? How about an actual question, there? Mala is prob-town and you are prob-scum, because her actions are less scummy than yours. This should be crystal clear. Thor is my strongest town read despite the bout, because the bout only made me read Violet as more scummy; not Thor. This should also be very clear.

[Thor665]

I want Cheery to be town.
I liked how he did a bit of wagon analysis and consideration today and have seen that from him as town and not scum (albeit, I haven't seen a more matured scum game from him yet I believe)
I also am potentially liking Militos as scum, in which case Cheery would be obv. town.

I'm starting to think maybe this;

Vote: Guy_Named_Riggs

[Cheery Dog]

What scum games have you seen of mine? I

[Thor665]

I feel like we were in a Newbie together where you were scum.

[Thor665]

Nope, I was confusing you with a different player - mah bad!