Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[PeregrineV]

I've fallen in love with Nero 3012.

[AngryPidgeon]

PV, why are you not giving me the warm-fuzzies you gave me in NY159?

I said I don't think

both Nero and the messenger are scum

.

Because that is dumb. Im playing outguess the mod a little, but I think both of those roles being scum roles is highly unlikely.

And why are you buddying the crap out of Nero's awful post?

[PeregrineV]

The fact remains that a Day Serial Killer is no different from a regular Serial Killer when it comes to leashing in this game. With a scum Roleblocker dead the circumstances are functionally the same for Town. The only difference is a slight timing difference (when does Town get the information on who the Serial Killer shot). With a Day Killer it is instant while with a regular Serial Killer it is at the same time as the Nightkill is disclosed. Town could still (if they were stupid) direct the regular Serial Killer who to target at Night and lynch them the next day if that person wasn’t shot.

You know there is a difference. With a daykill, we can vote, make cases, have a flip, examine those previously made cases and votes, then vote again. The timing of the information and the flip is highly relevant, since it reduces scums ability to plan around it.

It is effectively a double lynch, but has the exact same chance of being affected by scum as the normal lynch does.

[PeregrineV]

PV, why are you not giving me the warm-fuzzies you gave me in NY159?

Funny, I was thinking exactly the same thing.
In this game, you have waves of posts asking questions, but you don't seem to care what the answers might be. And it feels like you are more "ready to wagon the next big thing", which feels different from 159.

I said I don't think

both Nero and the messenger are scum

.

No, but you said if the messenger flips scum, Nero would be prob-town and NKed immeditely.
How would we know who the messenger is?
How would the messenger die?
Why would the messenger flipping scum make Nero prob-town?
Why or why would Nero be nightkilled, esp. if he is only prob-town, and why is this sounding like it's an inducement while also sounding like it's a penalty?

Because that is dumb. Im playing outguess the mod a little, but I think both of those roles being scum roles is highly unlikely.

OK.

And why are you buddying the crap out of Nero's awful post?

Becasue it expresses a lot of my thinking.
Esclouta replaced in and posted a lot of my thinking.
Myk has echoed thoughts I've had this game.
Mastin, arguing with MoI aside, has been posting thoughts I agree with.

Since we don't really share playstyles, then I can conclude they probably share an alignment with me. So even if we disagree on details, I trust they are actually looking for scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

No, but you said if the messenger flips scum, Nero would be prob-town and NKed immeditely.
How would we know who the messenger is?
How would the messenger die?
Why would the messenger flipping scum make Nero prob-town?
Why or why would Nero be nightkilled, esp. if he is only prob-town, and why is this sounding like it's an inducement while also sounding like it's a penalty?

If I am operating under the assumption that both roles aren't scum. Which means if the messenger flips scum. Nero is prob-town.

The whole discussion was about using a role to test Acosmist's claim. I suggested Nero do it. Nero said he is out of shots and that the messenger do it. If the messenger gets friendly with Acosmist and dies from

Syphillus

FOXDIE, then that confirms Acosmists's PGO claim.

Re last question: setup spec.

You say you agree with it but you apparently don't agree with ALL of it because you disagree about Mykonian. Id like to know what you liked about specifically; its not exactly a small post.

And Mastin has been posting a whole lot of scummy nonsense this game.

Lol. And accuse me of wagoning 'the next big thing' whilst leaving yourself open to just sheep Nero/Mastin.

Why do you think MoI is scummy?

[PeregrineV]

Re last question: setup spec.

You say you agree with it but you apparently don't agree with ALL of it because you disagree about Mykonian. Id like to know what you liked about specifically; its not exactly a small post.

And Mastin has been posting a whole lot of scummy nonsense this game.

Lol. And accuse me of wagoning 'the next big thing' whilst leaving yourself open to just sheep Nero/Mastin.

Why do you think MoI is scummy?

I'm kind of lost about what you're referring to at the beginning here.

Mastin may be MoI tunnleing ATM, but I think Mastin is town.

Note sure if I sill sheep them just yet. Was thinking about starting a new AngryPidgeon wagon. But, not sure yet.

MoI is giving scumvibes somewhat because of his response to the whole "leash the SK" thing. In Zom Com, there was 6 players with 4 town powers each, and he was working/reworking plans to use all of the claimed powers to catch scum with them, catch scum lying about them, bring killed town back to life, and basically cycle through everybody until town won.

Now, I'm expected to believe that MoI couldn't come up with a plan to use the power of a proven, unblockable, possibly night-kill eating dayvig to press a town advantage?

[AngryPidgeon]

Now, I'm expected to believe that MoI couldn't come up with a plan to use the power of a proven, unblockable, possibly night-kill eating dayvig to press a town advantage?

We've been talking about getting Acosmist tested for a couple pages. (Ya Im going with Acosmist STD jokes)

Didn't you link a game in which MoI recommended NOT leashing an SK?

That sounds more relevant than MoI using town PRs in a plan in another game. And ya, he does that. He made a huge plan in Switchboard mafia.

And what plan could there possibly be for MoI to come up with. Its either lynch/don't lynch tammy. You are comparing apples to oranges.

[Kise]

@Everyone – Please note that Mastin has been challenged to provide a single link for a Town game from MoI showing that he would support leashing a Serial Killer. He continues to dodge doing it because he can’t. This demonstrates that every element of his longwinded posts about me are pure rhetoric he knows he can’t actually support. He’s lying about having any meta to support his ‘suspicion’.

He's a known bullshitter. Can't get his way other than lying in bed with scum but he's delusional by calling them town.

Yes that’s right folks – he claimed X which is an unknown number. Yet now, after I correctly predicted his response which was “Oh, I’m out” I suddenly was setting him up and I knew he only had 3. And the reason why he states I knew he was out is a

DIRECT LIE.

Furthermore look at where I specifically address his claim as X-Shot and his response directly to that line where he says nothing about me being stupid for referring to it as X shot not 3 shot.

Known bullshitter, but scum. He was playing stupid last phase by acting like he thought we didn't believe he could neighbor others. He didn't neighbor the cop because his group had a strongman killer.

What reason here were you voting Wrath?

Following up on Ben's suspicion, plus Wrathchild as town is much more active.

Ben's suspicion, not yours. got it. At least now you know that meta on WC isn't reliable.

[pappums rat]

Votecount 4.5

"That's it, Snake. Hurt me more. Make me feel alive again." -Gray Fox, Metal Gear Solid

zabriel - 3 (Acosmist, MagnaofIllusion, AngryPidgeon)
mykonian - 2 (Kise, pidgey)
MagnaofIllusion - 2 (mastin2, zabriel)
Acosmist - 1 (jasonT1981)
jasonT1981 - 1 (Yates)
pidgey - 1 (mykonian)
Cheery Dog - 1 (Nero Cain)

Not voting - PeregrineV, Kublai Khan, Cheery Dog

Nero Cain, mastin2, PeregrineV, and zabriel are V/LA.
Kublai Khan and pidgey are V/LA until Thursday.

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 4 is 2 AM EST on December 15, 2012.

[Cheery Dog]

Becasue it expresses a lot of my thinking.
Esclouta replaced in and posted a lot of my thinking.
Myk has echoed thoughts I've had this game.
Mastin, arguing with MoI aside, has been posting thoughts I agree with.

Since we don't really share playstyles, then I can conclude they probably share an alignment with me. So even if we disagree on details, I trust they are actually looking for scum.

How are these town tells?

Sharing thinking is a worse tell than the 'scum tell' of people talking to their scum reads as if they were town which was happening yesterday.

I've been town had scum use this to get on my side, I've also been scum and had town use that in their reasoning for why I'm town.
Do you have any other reasons for believing them to share an alignment with you?

--
on some other topic, MoI's posts aren't helping me want to lynch his scumreads. (though I don't think they've got to a stage where I feel he needs to be lynched today though)

[mykonian]

If anything, the Thor NK spec should point to Jason.

@Mykonian: pidgey is still town and you popping in to say "Prod dodge, trollol! Pidgey is still dumb scum b-t-dubs!" is scummy as fuck.

But you consider the idea that pidgey is scum already scummy, so I don't know why you are talking to me. It's rather pointless. Do something about it or shut up.

[mykonian]

ok, so it wasn't me, it was you. I was fully awake while reading it now and it's still a couple of pages which could have been left out without anyone noticing.

Are you seriously attacking me for that now? What the fuck have you pushed besides me you hypocrith?

That said i will start checking other players later. Only jason and myk come as scummy right now from the top o my head.

yeah, this one doesn't work.

MoI doing what he's done for two days. Aggressing Mastin, voting me. Nothing new, big large posts with obnoxious formatting used for it. Thread becomes a lot easier if I just remember what MoI said yesterday and skip his walls.

Other then that, Nero appears in quote signs in MoI's walls. Hah, apparently nero is voting MoI: GOOD GUY.

Also I for the record clearly agree with Nero testing Acosmist tonight.

inb4 Nero claims to be out of uses / refuses to do so.

I'm quite happy to believe Acosmists and Nero's claims on this point alone. You'd almost think scum would want free kills.

Why the fuck do we have mastin and MoI in one game.

Wait. Didn't you just make an even/odd argument in your Nero tests Acosmist post?

Not really.

Mykonian was arguing that Tammy should be kept alive purely to put as at odds.

I'm arguing that Nero Cain testing Acosmist's claim gives us a benefit (conf-towning someone that can't be NK'd or proving that he is scum) and doesn't provide much drawback (losing someone that is probably getting ML'd if town and bringing us to odds which doesn't lose us a lynch).

Basically Mykonian argued that being at evens is a compelling reason to leave Tammy alive. Im arguing that being at evens makes having Nero do this have little drawback.

And mykonian flat out flip-flopped on his Tammy opinion for unknown reasons. Thats what was scummy about it. Not that he supports being at odds in itself.

ha, people listen to me! YES. Pidgeon is right btw. It wouldn't cost us a lynch if a PR died. Just, I'm getting the feeling some scum might want Nero gone anyway.

Cut the crap PV

Remember, BC is scum too.

Vote: WrathChild

Were you or were you not insinuating the cop had a guilty? What reason here were you voting Wrath?

Oh so Nero recruited Thor? Gee we shouldn't think he's scum now. Scum would never kill someone they wasted a neighborize on right?

Very much so. Why do you doubt this Kise?

can we please lynch scum instead of randomly wagoning a townie

So you know that Snifit is town?

haha I love this!

vote:Acos

Jasons posts get more body by the day. Nero is a cool guy, quoting nero doesn't make you cool.

We have a Tammy/Benmage situation again, don't we?

If I'm scum, target me. Come on.

No, we don't.


Then pidgey is suddenly calling for flavour info from Acosmist. 120 pages in and that's what is important to him. Absolutely stunning.

Acosmist again manages to fill the thread with "don't lynch me you bastards"-posts. Yes, by now we know you are a survivalist. Stop messing up the thread with it.

I'm sure I read this post by MoI before. Fuck off MoI, make a new one.

[mykonian]

Votecount 4.5

"That's it, Snake. Hurt me more. Make me feel alive again." -Gray Fox, Metal Gear Solid

zabriel - 3 (Acosmist, MagnaofIllusion, AngryPidgeon)
mykonian - 2 (Kise, pidgey)
MagnaofIllusion - 2 (mastin2, zabriel)
Acosmist - 1 (jasonT1981)
jasonT1981 - 1 (Yates)
pidgey - 1 (mykonian)
Cheery Dog - 1 (Nero Cain)

Not voting - PeregrineV, Kublai Khan, Cheery Dog

Nero Cain, mastin2, PeregrineV, and zabriel are V/LA.
Kublai Khan and pidgey are V/LA until Thursday.

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 4 is 2 AM EST on December 15, 2012.

And this reflects the pain. 8 to lynch in 9 days and we are nowhere. Nobody gives a shit. Apparently.

Zab wagon is one I could live with.
---
MoI I would enjoy as well
not lynching acosmist
Jason is a good baseline lynch.
HELL YEAH PIDGEY LYNCH but isn't going to happen because you are a lazy bunch
cheery? Is he playing?

And while KK is town, everybody else in the not voting catagory can have death as well.

[mykonian]

vote zabriel

[mastin2]

So I was thinking last night, about this game.
And just before I went to bed, I had a thought. The thought of,

"Hey! I'm obvtown. I can take control of this town!"

So I think it's about time I did.

After all, catching scum's worthless if you can't lynch scum. And I've been biding time this game, been essentially lurking, posting each day but not living up to activity standards because I lacked the motive.

Well, I just realized me lacking the motive is entirely my fault, and that I don't need to wait for another mislynch for me to do this. In fact, this might be my only chance. So let's get this show on the road, shall we? I can put off reading the new stuff for a while (rest of 123 and whatever's on 124), and for the moment, I'm going to be focusing on each player alive. Time to coordinate this uncoordinated town. Starting off of Aco. Each player'll have their own post.

[mastin2]

Acosmist:

Look, I think you're scum, and have been pushing you as scum, but because I'm town, and a plan is underway to test your powers, I

do

have to give you

some

benefit of the doubt, and be willing to see you as town.

As such, if you're town, I'd like to make this as explicit as possible: you're doing it wrong.

You've faded into the background for the most part. As a PGO who the scum can't kill, your job should be to be a strong town player, to have an extremely strong town voice present in the game, to be obvtown and to have your presence make the scum wish they could kill you. You...haven't.

Your suspects have been jokes, and your townreads not much better.

I want from you, an entire list of the town players--who you find scummy and a paragraph or so on why (and, no, you can't use "they attacked me" or any variant thereof as a reason), along with who you think is town and why (and, no, "they defended me" and variants thereof is not a valid reason).

Please increase your presence in the game. And if you're town, take action. Scum play by reactions, exactly like you have been. Town players play by taking initiative, and creating action--I don't want you to just give suspects and vote 'em, I want you to actively be trying to convince others on why your suspects are scum and why you're right and they're not. And I want you posting more often, since if you're town, lurking does not suit your goal.

As you are, if you're town, the scum couldn't care less that you're a PGO. Make them care. Make them want you dead.

[MagnaofIllusion]

After all, catching scum's worthless if you can't lynch scum. And I've been biding time this game, been essentially lurking, posting each day but not living up to activity standards because I lacked the motive.

As such, if you're town, I'd like to make this as explicit as possible: you're doing it wrong.

Irony.

[mastin2]

AngryPidgeon:

Look, I get it, you think I'm scum. Up 'til now, I haven't really given a damn that you think that, since (1) I'm town, and (2) I have some serious suspicion on you.

But if for no other reason than that you're currently still on the town side of null (albeit only just, and partially 'cause I've got a full scumteam already ), I've decided that, well, it is a problem, to be addressed now.

So bluntly, if you're town, you're being stupid again.
I am town. Unlike usually, I can't prove it with my role, but as always, the proof there is in my actions.

So as I'm town, please listen to me.

First off, some questions.
1: Why do you seem to only be focusing on certain players? The town-AP I know is scatterbrained, all over the place. That's not to say town-AP doesn't have conviction; I've seen it from you before. But the town-AP I know constantly re-evaluates things and can flip a switch on a read mid-day, kinda like me.
You haven't been doing that this game. You've been showing an unusual level of, well, focus on your reads, and quite frankly, that's one of the main reasons that you've gone back into my radar--because it freaks me out. Not because you have me as scum (been there, done that, don't care), but because you're not changing your reads, and you're focusing on specific players.

2: Why is MoI so town to you? And don't answer "because you're pushing him as scum" or "because he's pushing you as scum" or "because he's pushing *playername* as scum". I want reasons on why you think MoI's play has been town.

3: But why stop at just MoI? I also want a full-blown list of reads from you. I know you can do it. Reads on every single player in the game, along with a description as to why you've read them like that. (Though please do give more detail on MoI.)

(Bah. I thought I'd have more to say, but...well, I don't. I'll come back to ya if I think of more.)

[mastin2]

Cheery Dog:

The reason AP's on the townside of null is because you're on the scumside of it.

You're not being very active here, and I KNOW for a FACT that you can (and have) been active in the past. Why are you not paying much attention to this game?

Furthermore, you've replaced into a bit of a hot seat. Though it hasn't been pushed very hard, many key players have had you on their suspect lists--what do you have to say about that?

More than that, how much of the game have you read? I realize that it's a long game, but you've had, what, almost a month to read it? There's no excuse for not having done so. (Just checked--two weeks, actually.)
Even reading less than ten pages a day, you could have (and should have) finished reading it, yet I don't seem to recall you giving an update on that. Have you read it all, and if not, why?

Why aren't you voting anyone, either?

And who, exactly, do you suspect? Like with the others, I want the why as well.

Don't think you can get away from this game by lurking, because I'm not letting you go any time soon. I want answers from you, and if you don't step up your game, then you're a great candidate for lynching.

[mastin2]

Jason:

Look, I realize that you're town. It's painfully obvious, and everything I see only makes the picture stronger.

But strong as my voice in the game is, I'm still only one player. And while you've convinced me (which helps convince others, as I help influence them), you haven't convinced a lot of people. I want you to do so.

Show them why you're town.

More than that, I realize that you're not that strong of a player, but you kinda have to be right now. In this game, we need as many as we can get. So you need to kinda stop derping, no matter how much of a towntell it may be. You can start by giving me a full suspect list. Heck, make it a full read list and give the town as well, along with your reasons for why. I realize you probably haven't thought about a lot of the players in the game, but I would strongly urge you to do so. We need every town voice in here to coordinate their reads as efficiently as possible, so we can lock in on common suspects--and do so now, rather than when deadline draws near, so that we can get them lynched, rather than having three or four counterwagons to the mislynch.

[mastin2]

Kise:

You're another player who I think is scum, but you haven't antagonized me, and I owe you that same courtesy. So have a few questions.

1: What happened to your read on Khan? A while back, you offered to 1V1 him, yet now, you've pretty much completely dropped that, in favor of...
2: Nero. You've been doubting his role, but you have my word that it works exactly the way he says it does. So do you still think he's scum because of his role, or is it because of more than that? Do you have more reasons to think he's scum than what he's said?

3: For that matter, I've seen you focusing your reads on specific players. (Mainly suspects, not so much town.) Why are you focusing only on specific people, rather than on people as a whole?

4: So basically, (this is getting a little repetitive ) I want you to give me your rundown, on all your suspects and all your townreads, along with the reasons why. I need to see your stances crystal clearly for there to be any chance of you moving outside of my suspect list, 'cause you're currently second-strongest under MoI.

5: Also, why is your activity as low as it is?
The town-Kise I knew years ago was one of the most frequent posters in the game, posting almost every day with thought after thought after thought.
Yes, it's an out-of-date meta, but I still want to know what changed to make your posting be sporadic and infrequent; I can tell you right here and now it was not a change for the better.

[mastin2]

Kublai Khan:

Why has your activity level dropped off so much?

You were EXTREMELY active on day two, but somewhat less active on day three--yet still a strong presence there.

Today, not so much. You've kinda disappeared, so I'd like an explanation as to why.

Also, could you remind me of who your suspects are and why? I'm looking for not just two or three names, but more like your top five or six. (That's more scum than I think there are, but I don't want just who you think is scum, I also want who you think could be scum, and basically, who you're willing to lynch and why.)

[MagnaofIllusion]

I eagerly await both Zab and Nero to return to the thread and respond. I sense I’ll be waiting awhile but it is something I anticipate.

@Cheery Dog

– So what exactly do you want from my posts that would make you want to lynch my scum suspects (Mykonian, Zab, Nero, jasonT)?

--

@Peregrine

– Do you think spamming the thread with a bunch of random responses is effectively scum-hunting? What specifically do you love about Nero’s Post 3012? I’d like to know specifically what he wrote that you agree with.

MoI is giving scumvibes somewhat because of his response to the whole "leash the SK" thing. In Zom Com, there was 6 players with 4 town powers each, and he was working/reworking plans to use all of the claimed powers to catch scum with them, catch scum lying about them, bring killed town back to life, and basically cycle through everybody until town won.

Now, I'm expected to believe that MoI couldn't come up with a plan to use the power of a proven, unblockable, possibly night-kill eating dayvig to press a town advantage?

I see this and wonder what exactly your thought process is Peregrine. Because you linked (poorly since half your links don’t go to what they say they do, but I get what you are going for there) to a game where I explicitly argue against leashing as Serial Killer. And I’ve provide other links to Town MoI specifically arguing against it.

Did you read those links I provided? If so what about Zom-Com makes you think that I would want to leash a Serial Killer here?

--

Very much so. Why do you doubt this Kise?

Kise, imma let you finish but MoI had the best answer of all time …

Seriously – the argument was made previously that Nero

NOT

Neighborizing Nightkill target Benmage despite it being 'instant' was suspect given Tammy’s flip. Do you not understand (well, as scum you probably do but don’t want to admit to it, natch) that his choice to Neighborize the Nightkill last Night is suspect as hell in that regard?

I'm sure I read this post by MoI before. Fuck off MoI, make a new one.

I’m sorry I’m requiring people to provide content, support this positions with ACTUAL thread based information and generally read at a level higher than my daughter (who is in the 3rd grade).

No wait – I’m not. Why don’t you just go fuck yourself instead?

[mastin2]

MagnaofIllusion:

Thought I'd exclude you, did ya?
Quite the opposite, I have a lot to say to you.

First off, let me say--you don't want to underestimate me. You've been laughing me off, but you're ignoring the critical factor of time. You've already made plenty of enemies for the Tammy lynch and for the El lynch. You'll make more and more with each mislynch you push through. I've made some enemies, sure, but I've made a HECK of a lot more allies. And I'll continue to make more allies, with every mislynch I defend against. From Tammy to El, whenever you win, you lose support. You're in a position where plenty of people have you as a suspect. Even if you're only the primary suspect of a few people, you're a secondary and tertiary suspect for many more, and lots of people lean null on you.

It's really a minority of the town which actually thinks you're town, and as the evidence mounts against you, as they see you be wrong time after time, and me be right, time after time, they'll stop supporting you.

More than that, I'm charismatic when I choose to be. I know how the system works. I know how to pull the strings, to strike the bargains necessary to push a lynch through. So far, my efforts have been too little, too late, but I'm starting early this time. And that means I can direct people, I can get them to go my way and follow me, and honestly, I think I can do that better than you can, especially given that you keep on being wrong and I keep on being right.


So again, don't underestimate me. More than that, don't antagonize me. Right now, for this post, I'm entertaining the idea that you're town. And I'm telling you that regardless of your alignment, having me as an enemy will not end well for you. So play with me for a while. I want you to tell me not just your suspects and not just your setup spec and not just who you're defending. I want from you, a full list of reads, on the entire playerlist. For instance, you've consistently dodged giving a reading on Kise.

Also, I want to know--have you read the entire game? You replaced in, you've done isos, you've been playing since ~5 pages before replacing in and maybe even some of the first pages, but I want to know if you've actually read the game in context entirely.


Arg, thought I'd have more to say. But eh, if there's more, I'll just ask, since for the moment, I'm going about things in a more civilized manner.

[mastin2]

Mykonian:

You're town, so I need your help now. Please don't go for pidgey. I know it's tempting (there's good reason to have pidgey be there, even though to me he isn't), but we need to focus. We're not getting a pidgey lynch any time soon, for the simple reason that pidgey is likely a mislynch, sad as that may be. And I'd rather not have a mislynch at all, so please focus on actual scum players.

For a start, I'd like you to give me all your suspects, along with a paragraph on why they're scum.

We can get a lynch on scum today, but we need to work together, and do so now rather than later when it's too late.