Micro 89 ~ Mafia Rarefaction Segunda (Game Over!)

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Tl;dr, lynch Tierce.

[Aeris]

I'll get back to this game in a. It but falcon is holy fuck town.

[Trevor]

No cc from me.

Jesus fucking christ it's a Micro game not a research paper. Meta about lurking is dumb as that can change depending on many things. Disagree with Parama about the F16 lynch today, no reason to hide if you're going to cc him. Don't really understand your reasoning behind it. Parama is obvtown so w/e.

"I want to lynch someone who is either the sole town power role or doomed scum because I don't like his reads" - Parama, an experienced player who is claiming to be town

This is really fake and screams "Hey look, a good player is going against the unspoken rule that you should never lynch an uncced power role! Vote him without actually reading him!"

Vote: Leafsnail

Also interested in lynching: Konowa

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Parama is a "good" player? I never knew!

Anyways, I can see why you'd suspect Leafsnail based on him going after the guy who is pushing the lynch of a claimed IC. I would say it is opportunistic except for the fact that Leafsnail has been pushing the Parama lynch since forever. Now, he is just adding more ammunition. It is a not a new thing. Check Leafsnail's ISO.

Tierce lurking is a small part of my case. Her playstyle is the more important part. Consider lurking as supporting evidence.

[Konowa]

Posting in all games. Just received news that my grandmother passed this afternoon. Posting after tonight will be very limited as I have to help with plans and probably host the reception.

[Vi]

~Vote Count XI

TwoUpstandingGentlemen (L-3)

~ StefanB, Konowa

F-16_Fighting_Falcon (L-4)

~

(Trevor,)

Parama,

(Tierce,) (Konowa)

Parama (L-4)

~ Leafsnail,

(StefanB)

StefanB (L-4)

~ TwoUpstandingGentlemen

Konowa (L-4)

~ Aeris

Tierce (L-4)

~ F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Leafsnail (L-4)

~ Trevor

Aeris (L-4)

~

(Konowa)

Not Voting:

(StefanB,) (Konowa,)

Tierce

-TwoUpstandingGentlemen is (are?) being prodded...

--With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
--Deadline is December 15, 2012 (in

(expired on 2012-12-15 21:00:00)

).

[Tierce]

Spoiler:

Let's take a sample of Tierce's recent games:

TOWN

:

1) Mafia in Triplicate

: Tierce is pro-active right from the beginning of the game. She pressures NobodySpecial in #33. When NS votes her back, she questions him and demands explanations as to why he thinks she is scum. Her later switch to Saulres also feels comletely natural. She expresses slight suspicion on him, has a conversation with him at #163 and later votes him. The smooth progression of suspicion, and the desire to understand what is going on in the mind of her scumreads is seen here.

2) Micro 51

: A recent game I played with Tierce under my alt rapidcanyon. Right from the moment, she replaces in, she is actively scumhunting. She first suspects me here #57. Notice how she continues asking questions and probing for motivations. She responds to my arguments and asks a few more questions, demands explanations as to what kind of reactions I was expecting and what they mean about alignments. She continues going back and forth for 6 pages probing into every possible motivation and explaining why they are wrong or in some cases changing her reads.

SCUM

:

1) Black Flag Nightless

: Piggygal had 4 out of 6 votes to lynch when Sixty (Tierce/Vi hydra) places the fifth vote. This post was made by Tierce (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4471773) where she places the L-1 vote and makes a case for lynching Piggygal. Most of the reasoning was terrible - the fact that Piggygal was joking somehow makes her scum, and using Piggygal's RVS votes to implicate her. A quick look at Sixty's ISO shows not much aggression and initiation of pressure. Essentially, she made a huge case against the L-1 wagon and jumped onto it.

2) Possessed Pastors in a Paranoid Parish

: In this game too, I was playing under my alt rapidcanyon, I was town and Tierce was scum. Her case against me mirrored her case against Piggy in Black Flag Nightless. #178It mostly talked about having "exagerrated reactions" #263 does more of the same. It is mostly a play on words arguing about whether the word "imperative" means the same as "urgent" and other hollow reads.

Your game samples sound manufactured. You know where you're taking that from? Empire's case on me in Open 463 (Black Flag Nightless). Where he was absolutely right. But here? You are suddenly ignoring the probing on the 'why's you so enjoyed in Post 247 and Post 249. Now they are no longer worthy of recognition. It's obviously not that you are not allowed to change your mind, but you are acting like your Townread on me

never happened in the first place

. This makes your analysis come across as doctored and trying to push a faked read because you know the roots of truth on those finished games ring true.

1) Interesting to note, Tierce put Saulres at L-1 in Mafia in Triplicate so bandwagoning by itself is non-alignment indicative to her. The methodolgy of the bandwagon is what matters. In Mafia in Triplicate, she had expressed suspicion of Saulres before. She asked why he was going after a serial flaker. That natural progression of suspicion culminating in an L-1 vote separates her vote on other L-1 wagons like Piggy in Black Flag Nightless where her case lacked any depth to it and merely pointed out the dumb things that Piggy did in an attempt to paint her as scum.

And how about all those examples I posted where I did not express suspicion of other players before others did? Again: I brought up plenty of new evidence against you. Go look at Dresden Mafia. We lurked for several days and ended up voting GreyICE on D1

after several others

while presenting evidence of why he was scum. We (Sixty) were Town. We had not presented GreyICE suspicion beforehand. The way you frame this is, again, forbidding me from suspecting players other players already suspect. It's trash and it's not a scumtell.

2)

Tierce's influence over town

: When town, Tierce leads the game. She questions players, finds out their motivations, keeps up with the game and isn't self-conscious enough to make long, elaborate "cases." When she sees someone suspicious, she votes them. She asks them questions, tries to find out for herself whether the player is scum or town. This is apparent in both the above town games. As scum, she has relatively little influence over the outcome of the day. As seen in Possessed Pastors, in her later posts, she lurks a lot, makes giant catchup posts and hollow cases. The primary difference in her cases is that as scum, she tries to pin enough inconsistencies on a player in order to achieve a goal - lynching that player. As town, she never stops digging into the "why." She always wants to know why someone is doing what they did and why that could come from a scum motivation.

Oh?

Go look at Otherworld and Chrono Trigger Resurrection. I was Town in both. And my behavior here does not correspond to anything like "later posts" in Possessed Pastors.

Spoiler:

3)

Tierce's activity level

: Tierce lurks as scum. This is a pattern that can be seen over multiple games. Her activity level in games as town is always less that the activity level in games as scum.

To prove this, I calculated her activity level in her last 9 town games and last 9 scum games. I calculated it is a percentage of the total posts in the game until the point of Tierce's death in the game. I also calculated an "expected" percentage which each player in the game would have if they all posted equally. I then divided her actual percentage with her expected percentage to get the ratio of her activity level. As you can see from the graph, Tierce lurks as scum. She is lurking in this game which points to more evidence that she is scum.

SCUM

Game	Tierce's posts	Total posts till Tierce's death	Tierce's posts/Total posts Fraction	Percentage	Number of slots	Expected percentage	Actual/Expected
Black Flag	38	618	0.06	6.15	10	10	0.61
Science	40	277	0.14	14	7	14.29	0.98
Possessed Pastors	77	1104	0.07	7	13	7.69	0.91
Abarat	31	1091	0.03	3	23	4.35	0.69
Doctor Who	57	559	0.1	10	13	7.69	1.3
Exp. Role	105	1875	0.06	6	23	4.35	1.38
Paranoia	359	3810	0.09	9	20	5	1.8
Newbie 1209	110	677	0.16	16	9	11.11	1.44
Pick your Power	45	842	0.05	5	14	7.14	0.7

TOWN

[/row]

Game	Tierce's posts	Total posts till Tierce's death	Tierce's posts/Total posts Fraction	Percentage	Number of slots	Expected percentage	Actual/Expected
Mafia in Trip.	95	450	0.21	21	9	11.11	1.89
Dresden Files	103	1499	0.07	7	18	5.56	1.26
Micro 51	112	366	0.31	31	5	20	1.55
Reserse Mafia	76	673	0.11	11	13	7.69	1.43
Newbie 1289	75	459	0.16	16	9	11.11	0.02
Micro 12	58	559	0.1	10	9	11.11	0.9
Arkham Horror	61	322	0.19	19	13	7.69	2.47
MLP: FIR	82	902	0.09	9	15	6.67	0.6
Catch-22	277	2376	0.12	12	22	4.55	2.64

Plot of Scum vs Town Games

:

You are doing that dance you accuse people of.

Remember, the one where you accuse people for cherry-picking through games when analyzing you?

Because using nine scum games (why nine, by the way?) and nine Town games is going to correspond to

drastically different periods of time

. You are not taking into account ELEVEN more Town games that correspond to the same period of time. Moreover: one of the games you are ignoring is quite representative of Tierce-not-doing-much on the first Days. It's not even like here, where I'm playing guardedly, I was literally just prod-dodging. As Town. Even post V/LA crap. Want to see another? Otherworld. Had the highest post count, was posting on all crucial moments, was regarded as a lurker all the same. Another? First few RL days of Dresden Mafia, where Vi and I were busy/lurking the game.

Why are you ignoring these games and going for the sheer mathematical approach? No regard for motivations whatsoever. I dismantled your previous post, and this one post doesn't build on anything you hinted at on that one. This tells me that you DIDN'T have anything like this in mind when writing your original reply, didn't have any sort of data, and are hurriedly covering your tracks with numbers to make it look like you have anything serious. Those numbers don't mean anything as you have no analysis of crucial moments.

You're making an analysis of post count on D1.

You are taking into account EVERY post I made throughout a number of days and situations that do not simply include D1, but a multitude of situation that cannot be compared. Moreover, this is shown in the wild fluctuation of my post count in other games, so you can't possibly think that data is significant--I apparently have TOWN games where my post count/percentage/what have you was lower than it was in this game, but you spin this to make it look like I'm lurker scum when I clearly have not dodged any important moment in this game.

tl;dr: Your data is intentionally misleading and statistically irrelevant.

Current game

:

1) Aeris Vote: Based on my Aeris vote, if it was bad, I'd reasonably expect Tierce as town to attack me instantly for it, and refute my explanation and keep probing as to whether it had scum motivation. Instead, she just made a passing comment and used it as another point in her favor. It seems more like a race to count off how many inconsistencies she can nail as opposed to a puzzle-solving mode of trying to understand motivations which she often takes as scum.

...So because I didn't notice it on a first pass, I can never bring it up again because doing so makes me scum. Awful reasoning at best, scum covering your tracks at worst. Once more, look at our votes on GreyICE and curiouskarmadog in Dresden Files. We were not interested in puzzle-solving. We were interested in

dead scum

.

2) Me saying Parama is scum:

When I say "

I am certain Parama is scum

,"

Tierce responds with: "

More posturing. Let's make sure that Parama lynch goes through

!"

Based on Tierce's town games, I would overwhelmingly expect Tierce as town to ask "why is Parama scum?" and when I give my answer, probe into the motivation for that, refute it, argue with it, etc. Instead she asks no questions to figure out my affiliation but rather chalked it up as a point in her favor.

I don't need to ask you why you think Parama is scum. I have no interest in making you repeat yourself--you've already explained that read by "Parama is pretending to be joking around to ignore suspicion on him." This started on Post 102 and didn't change since. Why would I need to ask more questions on this when you've already had back and forths with others that I can refer back to?

3) Me attacking a lurker. I was town in Micro 51 and attacked a lurker. As I mentioned, Tierce's post was this: #57. Notice how she tries to get into what I was thinking by explaining how I lurked in another game as town and how it not a scumtell. She further elaborates on how lurking may not be indicative of affiliation. Compare that to here. She quotes my post and says "

Look at how much he's blowing the Trevor case out of proportion

" - and leaves it at that. She collects it as a point in her favor rather than use it to promote discussion to figure out my motivations.

[/quote]Attacking a lurker is one thing. I am not going after you for 'attacking a lurker'. I'm going after you by how inane your scumread on Trevor is, and by how every post you make on him is yet another way of spinning what little he's doing into scum attitude.


I see no follow up on my dismantlement of your previous case on me. I also see very specific points followed up on Post 256, when he should be approaching the whole thing.


My 'lurking' is apparently a small point, but neither that nor anything else Falcon is saying holds any water.


Aeris--assuming scum won't put in effort is a slippery slope. Yes, some scum are lazy (hi!), but Falcon makes a point of saying he's not lazy as scum. If we lynch his partner today, he'll stay alive until Rarefaction (and there's actually something in the mechanics that is worrying me and I want to PM Vi to clarify), so any semblance of effort can make him look Town and avoid an early lynch. The fact is that he tossed a buttload of effort into something he now admits is not that meaningful, instead of looking at actual situations in those finished games (and the games he discarded) that might be remotely comparable.


VOTE: TwoUpstandingGentlemen

[Tierce]

Posting in all games. Just received news that my grandmother passed this afternoon. Posting after tonight will be very limited as I have to help with plans and probably host the reception.

My condolences. I hope everything goes as smooth as possible given the circumstances.

[Tierce]

and there's actually something in the mechanics that is worrying me and I want to PM Vi to clarify

Okay good. My point was whether night-kills were compulsive, because otherwise, with scum lynched on D1, the second scum could no-kill at 3:1 and force a final Day with no Rarefaction (i.e. no cleared Innocent Child if the player is alive). However, Vi says that, in the case of a 3:1 mislynch, Rarefaction would hit immediately after and we would have a 2:1 LyLo.

Carry on.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Regarding Tierce's response:

My intial Tierce-townread

It ties into my line of thinking perfectly. As I mentioned, I had some misgivings about Tierce earlier but the overall nature of her play made me read her as town. For instance, she started questioning Leafsnail and asking about his motivations. So, that part reads town which is why I had a town read on her. I am not saying she is incapable of emulating her town meta as scum. She is hyper-aware of her meta and I find it perfectly normal that she would try to emulate it. She did a good job pretending to be town. Over a longer period however, it becomes more and more difficult to uphold your town meta. Tierce slipped when she saw the opportunity to wagon onto me which allowed me to extrapolate her behavior and see that it fits more with her scum-meta.

I forgot to mention. In the Black Flag Nightless game, Empire posts a ton of meta on Tierce - more interesting stuff.

I don't feel the need to mention my townread on Tierce because it is no longer applicable. She fooled me.

"New Evidence"

Tierce claims she has "plenty of new evidence." This is precisely the problem I have. Why is she counting off how much evidence she has rather than figuring out my affiliation? In no other game as town does she do this. It is always an inquisitive probing into player's minds to determine their affiliation. A series of questions which get more and more detailed the further she probes. Compare that to her case on my vote on Aeris. Very superficial. She just said "bad vote" and counts it as evidence.

Comprehensiveness of meta

I don't think pointing out a single other game where someone was town/scum and corelating that to meta is accurate. "X did Y as scum, he is doing it now, so he scum" is heavily inaccurate.

In order to use meta properly, we need to have a large sample of games and shows

patterns

of behavior as opposed to isolated behavior. That is what I have done by comparing behavior in two town games and two scum games to show clear patterns across multiple games. As for activity level, I used a total of 18 games so I can confidently say "Tierce lurks as scum and I find her lurking scummy." It is not a guess or a random thought on my part but the product of factually proven analysis of data.

As with any data sample, there will be outliers and exceptions. Tierce saying "I lurked as town in that game" has little relevance or merit. There have been a couple of games where Tierce had a high post count as scum. Again, any data sample will have outliers unless it was done with dishonest intentions. The important thing to consider are overall trends in both behavior and activity level.

Also, I didn't say activity level was unimportant. It is supporting evidence to my my case on behavioral trends.

Disinterest in back-and-forths

Tierce says that I've already explained why I think Parama is scum. She doesn't want to discuss it. Again, compare with Micro 51 where she continues questioning until she gets to the absolute bottom of the situation.

[Parama]

I like how you've switched to attacking Tierce after she made a big case on you.
I like even more how, as far as I care, the majority of your case seems to be based on meta.
I like even EVEN more how you're still scum :>

[Konowa]

I think you're town, Parama. Your vote on F-16 is useless, he isn't being lynched today. Who else is scum?

[Konowa]

Probably a silly question Tierce, have you ever planned/worried about possible game break, for lack of a better term for 308, as scum?

[Parama]

If fighting isn't scum, Trevor 100% is.
Bleh.

[Tierce]

This is just getting ridiculous now. And he's still ignoring my dismantlement of his case on him and how none of his initial points make me scum. Woo-hoo, a brief version of a case that is absolute trash--let's just not defend this amazing conviction we had that indicates a total flip on a Tierce-read because other people (including the accused) showed it was utter bollocks.

Regarding Tierce's response:

My intial Tierce-townread

It ties into my line of thinking perfectly. As I mentioned, I had some misgivings about Tierce earlier but the overall nature of her play made me read her as town. For instance, she started questioning Leafsnail and asking about his motivations. So, that part reads town which is why I had a town read on her. I am not saying she is incapable of emulating her town meta as scum. She is hyper-aware of her meta and I find it perfectly normal that she would try to emulate it. She did a good job pretending to be town. Over a longer period however, it becomes more and more difficult to uphold your town meta. Tierce slipped when she saw the opportunity to wagon onto me which allowed me to extrapolate her behavior and see that it fits more with her scum-meta.

I forgot to mention. In the Black Flag Nightless game, Empire posts a ton of meta on Tierce - more interesting stuff.

I don't feel the need to mention my townread on Tierce because it is no longer applicable. She fooled me.

This is utter crap. There was no organic flow in your read on me, there was not a touch of acknowledgment of the previous read when you called me scum. As I said, Falcon-Town does 180-turns on players, but the paranoia is always there and he always mentions stuff he considered previously instead of holding on to a single post like it was the end-all, be-all of a read-flip.

"New Evidence"

Tierce claims she has "plenty of new evidence." This is precisely the problem I have. Why is she counting off how much evidence she has rather than figuring out my affiliation? In no other game as town does she do this. It is always an inquisitive probing into player's minds to determine their affiliation. A series of questions which get more and more detailed the further she probes. Compare that to her case on my vote on Aeris. Very superficial. She just said "bad vote" and counts it as evidence.

pffffahahahaha

I am not 'counting off' evidence. I am saying I am bringing in new evidence (i.e. points against you others have not mentioned) when I vote you. You accused me of "bandwagoning" with lame reasons. I'm saying my reasons to vote you are very much not indicative of me sheeping your previous scumreads, and they show I did my work. Once more, I have no need to ask questions, and you are ignoring all the games in which I did NOT ask questions of my strong scumreads. You are also ignoring the fact that I have brought that up in this game already--i.e. you're not reading my posts in full or dodging my points in them or still not bothering to check the meta to see if I'm speaking the truth.

Comprehensiveness of meta

I don't think pointing out a single other game where someone was town/scum and corelating that to meta is accurate. "X did Y as scum, he is doing it now, so he scum" is heavily inaccurate.

In order to use meta properly, we need to have a large sample of games and shows

patterns

of behavior as opposed to isolated behavior. That is what I have done by comparing behavior in two town games and two scum games to show clear patterns across multiple games. As for activity level, I used a total of 18 games so I can confidently say "Tierce lurks as scum and I find her lurking scummy." It is not a guess or a random thought on my part but the product of factually proven analysis of data.

As with any data sample, there will be outliers and exceptions. Tierce saying "I lurked as town in that game" has little relevance or merit. There have been a couple of games where Tierce had a high post count as scum. Again, any data sample will have outliers unless it was done with dishonest intentions. The important thing to consider are overall trends in both behavior and activity level.

No, this is not what you are doing. You are not looking for patterns, because what you are doing is secret numerology and secret numerology

doesn't work

. It doesn't work in VCA, it doesn't work for post counts. You are crafting a nice excuse to go "oh well this game was one of those exceptions" when I do flip Town. Once again, you are looking at numbers instead of looking at the games in which said trends occurred. Numbers are naked. Numbers have no motivation nor situations impeding/increasing post count. Your 'comprehensiveness of meta' is bullshit because

it's just blind numbers

, where you are not looking at the rest. For someone so interested in my meta as to make a description plainly ripped off Empire's, you are not looking at the games themselves. This reeks of fakeness.

Disinterest in back-and-forths

Tierce says that I've already explained why I think Parama is scum. She doesn't want to discuss it. Again, compare with Micro 51 where she continues questioning until she gets to the absolute bottom of the situation.

Look at you, once more disregarding where I've said I've done that as Town before. Didn't you say one or two situations aren't enough to prove things? Then why is it acceptable for you to present 'proof' in this manner but not for me to disprove it in the same way?


Konowa--somewhat. Paranoia Mafia had a situation in which the death of a Town multi-voter combined with a scum Night action made us win the game outright even after my lynch. I had that idea, but Oversoul enacted it as I was the one lynched that Day (obviously this wasn't stated in-thread). I care about potential ways of breaking the game as either alignment--however, I guess your question is whether I 'apparently' attempt to break the game for Town

in-thread

as scum? I don't think that has happened yet--the Voidedmafia D1 lynch in Open 463 doesn't count, as it didn't show any gamebreaking method one way or another. I think I know what you're getting at; it's the Reverse and Dresden game plans, isn't it? I don't think there's a way to push for a more likely Town win here other than forcing people to interact in a way that might eliminate pairings come Rarefaction.

[Leafsnail]

This is really fake and screams "Hey look, a good player is going against the unspoken rule that you should never lynch an uncced power role! Vote him without actually reading him!"

Vote: Leafsnail

Also interested in lynching: Konowa

Actually I want every player who is not voting Parama at the moment to complete the sentence "I think trying to lynch a claimed IC is something a townie would do because..."

I haven't had any answers yet. Least of all from Parama.

And yeah, I guess that is what I'm screaming? Except for the "don't read him" part, because he's obvious scum as well. There is no town justification for any of his actions, and this is just the most extreme example. Your constant defense of Parama is idiotic and I would say scummy if there were a third mafia member in this game

VOTE: TwoUpstandingGentlemen

gyaaaah hahahaha. I really don't have time for all this meta back and forth, but just

look

at this vote everybody. Look at it. Page after page of back and forth with someone who isn't getting lynched today, zero words about the bandwagon vote.

VOTE: Tierce.

Tell me this isn't exactly what I was saying scum could do with concealed reads earlier.

[Tierce]

...

You're joking, right?

Still willing to lynch TwoUpstandingGentlemen. The call for interest on Post 147 (especially after that "Tierce seems agitated" in Post 80) was sketchy, and Majiffy seems more interested in flavor on page 1 than in actually doing things with his hydra partner. As Town, I would expect them to have had some sort of ideas shared between them between Post 20 and Post 23 (QT, AIM, PMs, whatever), but Majiffy ignores Thor's point and rambles pointlessly about flavor. He keeps doing a version of that for the next half hour, which doesn't really show interest in what his hydra partner is doing--he doesn't engage Parama in discussion about the game, even though they are posting back and forth.

Post 44 is a load of puppypoop. Terrible reason to complain about Parama--if you had that much conviction about it, why didn't your hydra partner do anything about it?

I am not interested in lynching Falcon Today. I hopped off that wagon. But I will continue calling out his terrible case and how I believe he is scum. Calling my vote 'silent' when I had already explained my reasoning 24 hours ago doesn't make any sense. I don't need to post wall cases every time I want to move, and my suspicion of the slot is pretty well documented.

[Konowa]

Ugh.

Leaf, why do you talk about justification for Parama's vote but don't try to distinguish whether Tierce has any town motivation with her vote?

[Leafsnail]

Holy shit that was well hidden. I guess it's not scummy but if you've made multiple wallposts in the 24 hours between your reason for voting (which is in turn hidden between a bunch of quotes from other people and a massive back and forth with someone else) and your vote would you mind requoting it? I also don't get why any of that stuff is meant to be scummy but at least you had something of a reason

@Konawa I can't see any link at all between those two things. One of them is Parama performing a scum action and one of them is me not seeing a reason buried in the middle of a wallpost talking about other people.

Also can you explain what you were trying to do with those past three questions? In particular the first two that were aimed at your townreads.

VOTE: Trevor. Can you finish the sentence please and also explain your obvtown read on Parama. Maybe then you can explain why what you're accusing me of is scummy in any way.

[Konowa]

What I'm saying is that in 315 you note that Parama's actions have no town justification. While in the same post you assume that Tierce's actions are scummy on a predetermined behavior of "hiding reads" and don't try to determine if her actions are town or not.

I'll refuse to answer what I'm doing with the Parama question till he responds.
For the Tierce question, I've seen her make breaking questions as town, and want to know if she's done it as town. I thought that one was pretty straight forward.
I don't understand why I can't question people despite being a town read?

[Tierce]

Holy shit that was well hidden. I guess it's not scummy but if you've made multiple wallposts in the 24 hours between your reason for voting (which is in turn hidden between a bunch of quotes from other people and a massive back and forth with someone else) and your vote would you mind requoting it? I also don't get why any of that stuff is meant to be scummy but at least you had something of a reason

Uhm...

Ctrl+F? I don't even use TUG when referring to them, IIRC, so anything from "TwoUpstandingGentlemen" to "Thor" to "Majiffy" to "Thorjiffy" should hit results.

And yes, I think that kind of hydra dissonance is scummy because it shows that Majiffy apparently isn't interested in scumhunting

and

is not interested in Thor's scumhunting. If they were both scumhunting in different directions, it would be one thing, but Majiffy was doing nothing while ignoring his hydra partner.

(With that said, while the "I hate walling, lol. " line was a joke on mastin due to the length of my own post, I'm not fond of walling and the inevitable arguing with my scumreads it degenerates into--and I can see it's turning a few players away from the game. Will try to tone it down.)

[Konowa]

Ugh. 319, that line regarding Tierce should be "seen as town...want to know if as scum".

Vodka. Wee.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

@ Konowa, why is Tierce town?

[Tierce]

I was actually tiptoeing around that question--which is why I PMd it to Vi instead of asking it in-thread. Feel free to confirm it by asking it yourselves in-thread/via PM, but I didn't want to do so visibly because if night-kills were not compulsive and a 3:1 mislynch did not trigger Rarefaction, Town could be forced into an horrible 3:1 mandatory MyLo. i.e. my bad feeling about it meant I wanted to keep such a potential scum strategy* secret.

*Upon first partner's lynch, no-kill at 3:1 --> force 3:1 MyLo with no ensuing Rarefaction

[Konowa]

I'm still not sold on her being town? Where did that come from?

Probay my last post of the night. We'll see how much of this vodka goes.