Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[pappums rat]

Votecount 4.11

"I was born on the battlefield, raised on the battlefield... Rockets, gunfire, screams... they were my lullabies..." -Sniper Wolf, Metal Gear Solid

AngryPidgeon - 4 (Kublai Khan, Acosmist, Nero Cain, PeregrineV)
PeregrineV - 3 (Cheery Dog, zabriel, Kise)
zabriel - 3 (MagnaofIllusion, jasonT1981, mykonian)
mykonian - 2 (pidgey, AngryPidgeon)
jasonT1981 - 1 (Yates)
Cheery Dog - 1 (mastin2)

Not voting -

Nero Cain is V/LA.
MagnaofIllusion is V/LA until Thursday.

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 4 is 2 AM EST on December 15, 2012.

[AngryPidgeon]

replies to PV off the top of my head.

Re MoI:
Your points against him are pretty much the exact same as Mastins. IDK if you arent reading closely or are too subjective to see that, but from my vantage point that is what I see. "MoI would have leashed Tammy as town because it was a good play for xyz"

And I dont care what constitutes XYZ. You arguing that YOU think leashing Tammy was protown because she is different than a normal SK. Fine. But when you make the assumptions that town-MoI would definitely agree with you on theory and therefore isn't town, that is a fallacy.

Ok, so you are questioning MoI and not making a case. The difference isnt really important. And most of your post is dedicated to tons of bulletpoints about why leashing Tammy was protown. Still means nothing about what town-MoI would do. Even MORE so given that MoI has meta proving he doesnt leash normal SKs which is the closest thing you should have to extrapolate town-MoIs mindset from.

Your points about why Tammy is different are most of your post and irrelevant. You are strawmanning away the real issue that your extrapolation has no base and that MoI already answered this to MAstin a million times anyways. And arguing that your case was not actually a case but just questions is more of that.

VOTE: Peregrine

Re Acosmist: crap I forgot what you said about Acosmist. Umm. Oh, kill flavors dude.. If someone dies and FOXDIE or something remotely similar is the cause of death, then that clears him.. If its something else then w/e. Inb4 you asking why acosmist should be tested if hes probtown.

[Kise]

I had a townread on him for the longest. The first time I thought to reconsider was when

he was telling Tammy in the QT

that jason may be right about me lurking as a scum tactic - I should point out that that same phase, I mentioned scum would be lurking after having their roleblocker daykilled. I didn't begin to "lurk" until the last week or so of day 1. The thing is, I literally spoke to Nero the day before signing up for this game. He asked why I stopped playing mafia and I told him I wouldn't devote enough time to it. But, I popped online the next day, saw he signed up for this and said why not, so I joined. I feel Nero should know I wasn't lurking as a scum thing,

but the way he was playing Tammy in the QT made me pause.

Did I miss something, or are you a part of Nero's neighborhood now? I thought he added Tammy then Thor& Mastin. You're talking like you're reading it.

I haven't read their QT but I am reading this thread.

Leashing Tammy would have given us flips without costing us lynches, and instead of testing Acomist PGO claim, why doesn't he just play and we'll determine if he's town from that?

Because Aco is still toying with everyone and trying to bait people to man up and vote him. You can't read someone who's trolling you.

[Acosmist]

I am? Where?

[Acosmist]

post 3051 last Tuesday

so that "still" sure makes no sense at all

[Kise]

Can't troll a troll, Aco. Word of advice.

[Acosmist]

ah, the "say something stupid and claim to be trolling" ploy

yaaaaaaay this gaaaaaaaame

[Cheery Dog]

I hadn't planned to confirm or deny it, I just found it curious that you brought it up and wanted to find your reasons for that. I hadn't followed that discussion well when I skimmed the thread and didn't find Cheery's question to you. Thanks. That helps me feel a little better about you.

I don't remember questioning Kise, I believe he just answered the question I put to AngryPidgeon.

The series of posts quoted show exactly how I thought.

1. Ben claims guilty on Tammy
2. Tammy claims Ben is wrong.

If Tammy is town dayvig, and Ben is wrong, Tammy shoots Ben. It's really that simple. The fact she didn't meant that Tammy was not town.

Myk calling her out to do it is the natural town thought process. We don't know if Ben is lying, Tammy is lying, they are both lying, or they are both telling the truth. So we revert to logic, and what we would do in her spot as a Town dayvig. As town, if someone claimed a guilty on you, and you can shoot them, you do.

When she didn't, the fact she killed AV meant she was probably some form of SK.

Anyone pushing for "Myk said to shoot the cop" is either scum, or needs to find a better argument.

Thanks for explaining exactly how you had the town read from sharing thoughts, and they do actually make sense, though they do have a possibility of still coming from scum, going to read the details now to find out the context.. yep could be the case.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AngryPidgeon
His post saying Tammy should have shot ben doesn't read the same, especially this part

Well. Apparently Benmage isn't lying. And Apparently Tammy isn't lying. So I'm guessing she is scum of some sort.

For two minutes I thought that PV's points on Myk were making sense, but Tammy was self-aligned, which means that Myk could totally make that argument from a scum perspective. If he encourages Tammy to shoot Ben and she does and he flips, the cop is dead and everybody is pissed at Tammy for killing the cop and we lynch her because we tend to assume our cops are sane unless we're derping and mistaking "not mafia" for "town". Anti-Tammy =/= Town though. Eliminating one faction from the game is a positive event no matter what your alignment is.

A scum myk would know that neither of them were on his team, so yes that could be the case, it is however the leadup with 1268 and and 1280 that make the reaction much more likely town.
and eliminating a faction isn't positive to the faction concerned.

(maybe I should read this whole thread, but I'm fairly sure I'll actually fail to scumhunt when I'm not looking at anyone in particular, much like PV just accused me off when I

read

skimmed the first 4 pages).

[mykonian]

Dang it. PV's posts do

not

make me want to lynch him.

Vote: Cheery Dog.

I agree. Nor do I want to lynch AP.

Further, I do not enjoy how MoI lurks out and he disappears from everybody's scumdar.

[mykonian]

and lurking is the wrong word I guess. He's just gone, makes no impression on the game anymore.

[mastin2]

myk, MoI's V/LA, so his lack of activity is understandable.

How would you feel about a Cheery Dog wagon?

His jumping ship from PV to AP looks opportunistic.

[AngryPidgeon]

Cheery, why are you voting me?

[mastin2]

Cheery, why are you voting me?

Three words, rhymes with "Weeeee, this fun!"

First letter of each word, H I S. Last letter each word, E S M.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'd like to buy an 'A'?

No, no, I'd like to spin.

[MagnaofIllusion]

and lurking is the wrong word I guess. He's just gone, makes no impression on the game anymore.

This post assumes me to no end in that I love when scum get cheeky about activity.

My posts while V/LA have had more content per capita (in actually trying to progress the game with reads and discussion) than all of mykonian’s posts since my V/LA.

And despite the fact I am under zero pressure he tries to assert I am dodging it to melt scum reads on me.

Laughble. Scummy, but laughable.

@Mastin

- You can try to sell me on how Mykonian is Town because I'd really love to see you justify that position. Because your "Look deeper" is frankly just word-throwing fluff since you never provide links to behaviors you say show surface scum intent but deeper Town motivation.

Anyway I’ve got a couple of smaller games to get caught up in before I get back to my first priority which is responding to Peregrine’s posts and reviewing to see if I am willing to lynch him.

[AngryPidgeon]

Mykonian is still my number 1 wagon. No one is ever interested in it though.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im VT.

Natasha Romanenko.

I dont know MGS flavor and my role provides none.

36 hours to lynch.

[PeregrineV]

replies to PV off the top of my head.

Re MoI:
Your points against him are pretty much the exact same as Mastins. IDK if you arent reading closely or are too subjective to see that, but from my vantage point that is what I see. "MoI would have leashed Tammy as town because it was a good play for xyz"

And I dont care what constitutes XYZ. You arguing that YOU think leashing Tammy was protown because she is different than a normal SK. Fine. But when you make the assumptions that town-MoI would definitely agree with you on theory and therefore isn't town, that is a fallacy.

Ok, so you are questioning MoI and not making a case. The difference isnt really important. And most of your post is dedicated to tons of bulletpoints about why leashing Tammy was protown. Still means nothing about what town-MoI would do. Even MORE so given that MoI has meta proving he doesnt leash normal SKs which is the closest thing you should have to extrapolate town-MoIs mindset from.

Your points about why Tammy is different are most of your post and irrelevant. You are strawmanning away the real issue that your extrapolation has no base and that MoI already answered this to MAstin a million times anyways. And arguing that your case was not actually a case but just questions is more of that.

VOTE: Peregrine

Re Acosmist: crap I forgot what you said about Acosmist. Umm. Oh, kill flavors dude.. If someone dies and FOXDIE or something remotely similar is the cause of death, then that clears him.. If its something else then w/e. Inb4 you asking why acosmist should be tested if hes probtown.

I said my points are different, and you have yet to show otherwise. Repetition does not = fact.
I make no assumptions about MoI, that's why I'm asking the questions. YOU are making assumptions, though. I wonder how much direct interaction you've had with him this game...

Big difference.

And most of your post is dedicated to tons of bulletpoints about why leashing Tammy was

protown

.

Still means nothing about what town-MoI would do

.

Wrong. If it's pro-town, I don't see why town-MoI would NOT do it.

You said leashing SKs=leashing SKs. I pointed out at least 6 areas where you were wrong, and how this was different. You trying to dismiss the differences does not make them go away.

[PeregrineV]

myk, MoI's V/LA, so his lack of activity is understandable.

How would you feel about a Cheery Dog wagon?

His jumping ship from PV to AP looks opportunistic.

How is it opportunistic since YOU were just voting AP?

[PeregrineV]

I had a townread on him for the longest. The first time I thought to reconsider was when

he was telling Tammy in the QT

that jason may be right about me lurking as a scum tactic - I should point out that that same phase, I mentioned scum would be lurking after having their roleblocker daykilled. I didn't begin to "lurk" until the last week or so of day 1. The thing is, I literally spoke to Nero the day before signing up for this game. He asked why I stopped playing mafia and I told him I wouldn't devote enough time to it. But, I popped online the next day, saw he signed up for this and said why not, so I joined. I feel Nero should know I wasn't lurking as a scum thing,

but the way he was playing Tammy in the QT made me pause.

Did I miss something, or are you a part of Nero's neighborhood now? I thought he added Tammy then Thor& Mastin. You're talking like you're reading it.

I haven't read their QT but I am reading this thread.

Where in the thread does Nero say what he told Tammy in their QT?
Not only that, but where in the thread does Nero say something that shows he is "PLAYING TAMMY IN THE QT?"

[AngryPidgeon]

I said my points are different, and you have yet to show otherwise. Repetition does not = fact.

Lol No I dont. Now I have to defend MoI? Your case/questions are not unique. Its the same old "Anyone not wanting to leash Tammy is scum, MoI knows better! It was a good idea because of XYZ"! And the XYZ does not matter at all even if you actually provided an XYZ and mastin didn't. In HINDSIGHT it was probably a good idea.

And MoI even has provided meta to show that he would act this way as town and has been vocal as fuck about shoving it down Mastin's throat. Because he believes that is good policy. ITs not alignment indicative and that is obvious as hell.

You are either incredibly arrogant or scum. I cannot bring myself to believe that you expect MoI to reach the same conclusions you do here about good policy and that he is scum for not.

P-edit: Why does MAstin's vote affect Cheery's at all?

P-Pedit: Look at this smokescreen. Kise, vote PV.

[mastin2]

MoI, he just is.

I don't really have the time to explain why at the moment, and I'm fully aware of just how convincing my argument is (zilch ), but I'll do what I can later.

And PV, I was on AP before his wagon was the new hot thing. (If memory serves, was the second voter.) And I did so 'cause I had nothing better.
Cheery Dog's AP vote, however, looks opportunistic-as-hell.

Also, AP claiming spontaneously like he did = huge towntell, so GTFO his wagon and lynch someone else.

At this stage, I'd rather a PV lynch than an AP lynch, but I don't like a PV lynch. I won't support a myk lynch, but I can hear arguments for a Zab/Jason lynch. Especially if there's no Cheery Dog support.

[PeregrineV]

And PV, I was on AP before his wagon was the new hot thing. (If memory serves, was the second voter.) And I did so 'cause I had nothing better.
Cheery Dog's AP vote, however, looks opportunistic-as-hell.

But you should be voting AP because you think he is scum.
Holding this as true,
the fact that Cheery Dog votes AP, whom he also thinks is scum, cannot be opportunistic.

So, still not getting it.

Why is his claim a town-tell?

[mastin2]

But you should be voting AP because you think he is scum.

Like hell I do. My vote was weak when I made it and I said as much. AP's posting has been such that he's once more managed to swing to the positive side of null.

Why is his claim a town-tell?

Spontaneous claiming from him.

Occam's razor--which is simpler, that AP tailored his play to my expectations of him as town, or that he's just town doing what he would as town?

The spontaneous claiming is something which he has zero reason to do right now as scum, ESPECIALLY since his claim was VT near the deadline with him as the leading wagon.

[PeregrineV]

I said my points are different, and you have yet to show otherwise. Repetition does not = fact.

Lol No I dont. Now I have to defend MoI? Your case/questions are not unique. Its the same old "Anyone not wanting to leash Tammy is scum, MoI knows better! It was a good idea because of XYZ"! And the XYZ does not matter at all even if you actually provided an XYZ and mastin didn't. In HINDSIGHT it was probably a good idea.

And MoI even has provided meta to show that he would act this way as town and has been vocal as fuck about shoving it down Mastin's throat. Because he believes that is good policy. ITs not alignment indicative and that is obvious as hell.

You are either incredibly arrogant or scum. I cannot bring myself to believe that you expect MoI to reach the same conclusions you do here about good policy and that he is scum for not.

P-edit: Why does MAstin's vote affect Cheery's at all?

P-Pedit: Look at this smokescreen. Kise, vote PV.

No, you are defending him when I'm asking for an explanation about his behavior. I've pointed out that town-MoI is capable of planning with complex variable interactions, so his refusal to use a fairly simplistic interaction is puzzling.
I've never seen any "policies" put forth by MoI. Since a good player adapts to seize advantages when they can, and I consider MoI to be at least that caliber, then I expect town-MoI to seize the advantage when it presents itself.

Spoiler: For example

Finally started. I see the passing discussion has already started and we have input on it. Good. We still are going to do so because it brings information to Town that can be analyzed long term.

I very much doubt scum have an ability that eliminates the death clause in passing to a Partner. That would border on bastard modding. Also in Cyclical X01 the only player with any abilities other than a Factional Nightkill that was not cyclical was the Serial Killer. I can’t see scum having a non-cyclical power based on the set-up experience I have with Kunkstar’s game.

Much more likely we probably are facing two smaller Mafia factions as opposed to a single Mafia this game. It reduces PoE possibilies. That said the passing mechanic is too useful for Town to not do it.

Also we are not going to claim all Powers at the outset. No reason to until later in the game. Abilities can be reconstructed through the passing chain later. There may be exceptions to this (Treestump is one form the first game as it is a perfect Mafia test tool) but we will deal with those as the day goes on.

Official Passing Strategy –

The Cyclic Claim process is a two step process.

Step 1 - The Day after you cycle a power at Night in your first post of the day you claim to have passed a power. You do NOT claim the Power or who you passed it to.

Step 2 - The second Day after you cycle a power at Night in your first post of the day you claim who you passed the power in Step 1 to. In the case of possessing multiple powers you claim every person you passed the to. You do NOT claim what the power was.

This process is ongoing and can result in multiple claims in any given day. For example -

Day 2 everyone claims if they passed a power Night 1.
Day 3 everyone claims who they passed their power to Night 1 and if they passed a power Night 2.
Day 4 everyone claims who they passed their power to Night 2 and if they passed a power Night 3.
And so forth.

Spoiler: And another

So here's what I suggest happen .... feel free to tell me to take a long walk off a short pier if you aren't Seraphim

1. We lynch Seraphim.
2. Sleepy has already claimed a Twilight resurrect on Peregrine. If it doesn't happen Ethos shoots him overnight as he is a Vampire and the Non-human kill should affect him.
3. Chrono flips Seraphim overnight.

If Seraphim isn't the last scum not sure who is. Hell, once Sera and Sleepy (my other strong PoE candidate) are dead I will not fight my own lynch at all since that means that I've got some unknown error in my Clearing assumptions and I am probably never going to be able to find it.

Either way, he's here and can respond how he wants.