NY 160B - Welcome to Castle Zar - TIME FOR FIREWORKS!

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Okay I'll actually read what I missed now but Konowa not questioning me on the blatant bangwagon vote with no reason whatsoever is scummy and choosing to focus instead on my empire town read.

[Konowa]

I disagreed with your vote and reasoning on Empire and wanted that explained first. It's the same thing really what you are trying to push now. LOLtown Empire. Besides, if you want to sheep onto a wagon which I think will land scum, have at it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Back from the weekend –

@Kingmaker

– Are you an alt?

@Nobody Special

– is Empire still a scum read for you?

Generating a small gut scum read on Johhog for his reaction to a single vote from Mehdi – feels outsized to me.

--

I just don't like how it formed so quickly around the (bad) reason that you were being opportunistic.

So do you feel that going after ‘easy targets’ isn’t a scum-tell at all or do you simply disagree that Empire was not scummy in his suspicion of NS?

--

I still believe that Empire's opportunism was a stronger scum tell but you just dropped another one, you're afraid of manning up and defending your reasoning.

So is your read that Empire and Mehdi can be partners, both can be scum but not aligned, or that the Scum flip of one reduces suspicion on the other in your mind?

--

I’m interested that no-one mentioned in the Empire wagon discussion the reason that put me over the top to make him my vote – his comment to Vi in Post 31. Now NobodySpecial is generally perceived as a weak player despite his join date so going after him is always something worth looking at. I don’t personally think his reasons as later expressed on NS are necessarily a scum-tell. But I still have reservations about the initial little buddying “Hey Vi join me” and that reservation has expanded with Post 112. If the initial salvo to Vi was some sort of early game test to him (which is the Town motivation I could see) why didn’t the complete lack of said reaction show up in his run-down of suspicions post to Vi? What sort of reaction would have warrented anything other than “Null, dropped”?

Secondarily I have concerns about the following reasoning from his “ArcAngel is Town” summary

I very much liked AA9's entrance into the game, liked post #7's "finally!!" as people (especially newcomers) generally prefer to be town and I don't think she would have been so excited to start the game off as scum. Find the warm friendly hello post in #8 to be genuine and I feel like she would have been a bit more clammed up as scum. I also liked her being freaked out over the quick RVS votes as it came off like she was concerned people were rushing things and the implied "slow it down" attitude of #15 to be genuine. The call to push the game out of random voting #48 seems legit too, not really seeing the issue Vi was pointing out with his #71 as there was a bit more content between the first and the second quote there.

My issues are as follows –

1. The game was clearly well out of RVS by the time Post 48 came around – Empire’s own NS vote and explanation of such (links above) were not RVS and the wagon that had started forming on Empire himself for actual reasons.
2. The “most people prefer to be Town and thus these show Town alignment” reasons above are at best terrible. Applying a generic statement to a particular player (who specifically has said they are experienced as both Town and Scum) reads to me as fabricating a reasoning basis (and my suspicion of Mehdi rises with her blank agreement with Empire at Post 124).

Oveall I feel there is a level of over-explanation that read that at my gut makes me belive it is manufactured. Compare it to Mehdi’s Post 59 – while I don’t necessarily agree with Mehdi (in that I think it would be more applicable if Arc was under pressure herself) the reasoning is simple and makes sense in context of Page 3.

@Empire

– Are you a Westros regular?

@ArcAngel

– What are your thoughts about Empire’s read of you at Post 112

--

@MoI: Did you follow up on the Vi meta research from #43? If so, what did you find?

As of the point you asked this question? Of course not since my LA should have indicated. But it was the first thing I did when getting access again this morning. The game in question is Experimental Roles Mafia.

I know Vi has (annoyingly) generally responded to votes for him with “Voting me is a scum-tell”. And in that game (where Vi was effectively a Modified Serial Killer) she made this post in regards to not doing such in that game –

Voting for me is typically a scumtell. But, it just never crossed my mind to vote pap-rat this time. IDK let me look at it again.

So similar reaction to a vote here as there. When I have more time I’ll need to do more digging into recent Vi games to see if there is more to that story.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

So you don't question my alignment for it?

So ftr, you're cool with a wagon on a scumread of your consisting of all vote hopping, bandwagon votes, and no reasoning, right?

Pedit: At konowa.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

@Kingmaker – Are you an alt?

He's not.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok how do you know that?

And why are you immediately working so hard attacking the credibility of the wagon you just put at L-2?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

2. The “most people prefer to be Town and thus these show Town alignment” reasons above are at best terrible.

Agree with this. AA was showing a general interest to start

playing

(as can be shown by the signup thread) so her "finally" reads more like "finally, the game started" regardless of alignment rather than a "finally, I landed a town role yea!".

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Ok how do you know that?

I'm psychic.

And why are you immediately working so hard attacking the credibility of the wagon you just put at L-2?

I'm questioning Knowoa, that's not attacking the Mehdi wagon. Also, I don't even know any info about the Mehdi wagon since I haven't read up yet, so I don't see how I can be attacking the credibility of the whole wagon yet (other than what I've already seen of Konowa).

[Zar]

A few guests have reported they've felt the wandering eyes of

"The Guardian of Death"

. The painting depicts a hooded man holding a sickle, and hangs next to the door leading to corridors of the Western Tower. The man in the picture is allegedly Count Yates of Lake Village.

Day 1, Votecount 6

Mehdi2277 (6): SnowStorm, Vi, Johhog, Tammy, roflcopter, Ser Arthur Dayne

Johhog (2): Mehdi2277, Baby Spice
Nobody Special (2): Empire, Konowa
Empire (1): MagnaOfIllusion
Konowa (1): Nobody Special
Vi (1): Maestro

Not Voting (2):

ArcAngel9, Kingmaker

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline

: Friday, December 21st, 2012 1:00 PM New York Time. (GMT-5) (End of the Mayan Calendar! )

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-12-21 13:00:00)

vote-count corrected. ~Zar.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

(Oh, meant to add a line about KM is a westerosi player so I obv know he's not an alt. I'm not that much of a douche...).

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

(Actually I am but I'm trying not to come off that way in this game. At least not yet.).

[Konowa]

So you don't question my alignment for it?

So ftr, you're cool with a wagon on a scumread of your consisting of

all vote hopping, bandwagon votes, and no reasoning, right?

Pedit: At konowa.

I think you're overselling this. Unless you're classifying just your vote as such. As for questioning your alignment, I was doing that by questioning your switch on Empire from "serious vote" to "LOLEmpire town".

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm questioning Knowoa, that's not attacking the Mehdi wagon. Also, I don't even know any info about the Mehdi wagon since I haven't read up yet, so I don't see how I can be attacking the credibility of the whole wagon yet (other than what I've already seen of Konowa).

So ftr, you're cool with a wagon on a scumread of your consisting of all vote hopping, bandwagon votes, and no reasoning, right?

You may be questioning Konowa but the second quote indeed does attack the credibility of the wagon given you basically call out all the votes as 'baseless'. But let me know how you came to that conclusion since you are now saying you haven't read up on the Medhi wagon please.

Thanks for the information on Kingmaker ... even if it took a couple posts to explain it

[Johhog]

Generating a small gut scum read on Johhog for his reaction to a single vote from Mehdi – feels outsized to me.

Holy shit. It's not like I'm complaining about his vote on me (although I'd obviously prefer that he didn't vote me), it's that he's too proud to admit that part of his reasoning is faulty.

Anyway, what I really wanted to say was that it's only four days until deadline, for those that didn't notice the short deadlines.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

You may be questioning Konowa but the second quote indeed does attack the credibility of the wagon given you basically call out all the votes as 'baseless'.

What? No, that was a hypothetical situation to see how Konowa WOULD respond to such a situation. Obv doing that to piggyback on my previous line of thought, that if konowa can be okay with one person blatantly bandwagoning, wouldn't he also be okay with all the others on his wagon, and so otherwise he's doing nothing to attempt to solve the game and only having a set people as a scumread and only pushing them regardless.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Generating a small gut scum read on Johhog for his reaction to a single vote from Mehdi – feels outsized to me.

Holy shit. It's not like I'm complaining about his vote on me (although I'd obviously prefer that he didn't vote me), it's that he's too proud to admit that part of his reasoning is faulty.

Anyway, what I really wanted to say was that it's only four days until deadline, for those that didn't notice the short deadlines.

So you are complaining that his reasoning is faulty when that is Null since it is entirely believable that Mehdi-Town doesn't agree that his reasoning is faulty?

And you earn some further gut scum for the "Faux Town" posting - Mod made it more than clear in Sign-up thread and with Maestro's replacement that deadlines were short.

You may be questioning Konowa but the second quote indeed does attack the credibility of the wagon given you basically call out all the votes as 'baseless'.

What? No, that was a hypothetical situation to see how Konowa WOULD respond to such a situation. Obv doing that to piggyback on my previous line of thought, that if konowa can be okay with one person blatantly bandwagoning, wouldn't he also be okay with all the others on his wagon, and so otherwise he's doing nothing to attempt to solve the game and only having a set people as a scumread and only pushing them regardless.

Nothing in your original post indicated at all it was hypothetical. Why would you assume people wouldn't read it by the plain language you used if it was intended to be hypothetical and not outright label it as such?

[Konowa]

That's obviously a false dilemma, Dayne. Please get back when you finish reading. You're starting to ping.

[Johhog]

So you are complaining that his reasoning is faulty when that is Null since it is entirely believable that Mehdi-Town doesn't agree that his reasoning is faulty?

And you earn some further gut scum for the "Faux Town" posting - Mod made it more than clear in Sign-up thread and with Maestro's replacement that deadlines were short.

No, stop it really. Just read the thread. I already said I won't explain it again. ISO me or something.

Then your scum radar is hilariously off target. I didn't notice it myself, that's why I posted it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

No, stop it really. Just read the thread. I already said I won't explain it again. ISO me or something.

No, I read the thread. That is what precipated my initial gut level read. Because your reaction isn't reasonable in my opinion. I've read your back and forth and frankly your "OH MY GOD YOU MORON" reaction (this is what I am parsing it as frankly) that is underlying those posts really doesn't seem to come from a Town perspective. I'll have to research our past games but primarily I don't recall you being this much of a dick. Perhaps that's because you haven't left an impression worth remembering ... not sure on that front.

[Johhog]

Ah, you continue to prove that you can't read me for shit. Nice.

And I'm a dick? I'm known for being outspoken, but a dick, really? Because you, along with Mehdi, seem to be illiterate?

Mehdi said that part of his reasoning for voting me was because I didn't answer some question, I didn't post between the question and the vote (and less than a day passed). What is it that's so hard to understand?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Then your scum radar is hilariously off target. I didn't notice it myself, that's why I posted it.

Ah, you continue to prove that you can't read me for shit. Nice.

And I'm a dick? I'm known for being outspoken, but a dick, really? Because you, along with Mehdi, seem to be illiterate?

Mehdi said that part of his reasoning for voting me was because I didn't answer some question, I didn't post between the question and the vote (and less than a day passed). What is it that's so hard to understand?

Everything except for the last line is you being a dick. You clearly are comfortable with that and nothing inherently alignment attributable to it but please don't express surprise at being called on it when you are. I can find other examples in your ISO if you want to continue discussing it but I'd rather stick to hunting scum (and my guess is you being a dick is not relevant to your alignment but to your MS personality).

The point stands - you are focusing solely on the "timing" element (you didn't answer because you didn't post yet) and ignoring the more relevent and salient "Yours was the worst vote for Empire" element of Mehdi's vote. You've not disputed Mehdi's point that your vote was more justified than others (and frankly I think it can certainly be argued that based on the initial posts it was so was more supported than other votes). This (despite your attempts to suggest I can't read ) is why your reaction is scummy - you've latched onto the least important element of his post and are hammering away at it alone. What about the rest of Mehdi's play - do you have any other scummy behavior you think supports your position?

[roflcopter]

if mehdi flips scum i want moi's head on a platter

[MagnaofIllusion]

if mehdi flips scum i want moi's head on a platter

Actually Mehdi flips scum and we can 1v1 as this looks very much like inside knowledge being put together to pre-emptively push a mislynch.

[Johhog]

if mehdi flips scum i want moi's head on a platter

Actually Mehdi flips scum and we can 1v1 as this looks very much like inside knowledge being put together to pre-emptively push a mislynch.

Don't be a dick.

[Zar]

Upon the death of the Lady of the Zar Estate and their heir during childbirth, Count Yates took a vow of silence. It is said he made a pact with the Shadows to remain in the Castle for as long as his wife was returned to him. Upon his death, he left in his will to be cremated and the ashes be mixed with clay, and commissioned a statue on the like of him be erected next to his late wife's tomb. The painting in the entrance to the Western Tower depicts the tunics he wore in grievance after his Wife's passing; the sickle representing the death of all he had treasured.

Day 1, Votecount 7

Mehdi2277 (6): SnowStorm, Vi, Johhog, Tammy, roflcopter, Ser Arthur Dayne

Johhog (2): Mehdi2277, Baby Spice
Nobody Special (2): Empire, Konowa
Empire (1): MagnaOfIllusion
Konowa (1): Nobody Special
Vi (1): Maestro

Not Voting (2):

ArcAngel9, Kingmaker

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline

: Friday, December 21st, 2012 1:00 PM New York Time. (GMT-5) (End of the Mayan Calendar! )

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-12-21 13:00:00)