Micro 66 - Robo's F11 (Game Over)

[Mitillos]

1. I already attacked you. If she convinces me I was right, by presenting additional "evidence", maybe I'll vote you and then she can also quickvote you with her partner (either Violet or Mala) and win. This helps her scum wincon immensely, by fulfilling it.

3. Actually, two of those three were the night-kills but that doesn't really matter. But why didn't you do anything about her dodging? Why didn't you press her about it?

[Thor665]

1. At the point she did the list you had me listed as a top town read. Am I missing something?

3. Like, what, point out how he's scummy, call him scum, and indicate that lynching him would be a swell idea? Something like that?

[Mitillos]

1. Everything else I said today, apparently.

3. Yeah, probably. Also making a case, instead of just saying she's also in your scumlist, telling people to vote her, actually voting her. Actually voting her, yeah, that'd be a good one.

[Malakittens]

Mit, I don't like the fact you are blatantly ignoring any interactions that I had with Thor's predecessor Klick. You are seriously zeroing in on just Thor, but not looking at the whole picture.

[Mitillos]

@Mala: Let's see. One short interaction at 105-114, plus part of a solitary post (162), where he voted and quickly unvoted you, over the PMyst thing, another one where you voted him around posts 186-195 (in both cases, pretty much no one else was voting either of you, except Cheery's solitary vote on Mala) and then a couple of jabs, asking him to make a case on Tracey and read Violet. And then he replaced.

You were still voting for Klick, when Thor came in. You had him as a scumread. The scummiest, if we take your vote at face value. So, looking at the whole picture is even more baffling than the rest. So go on, explain where Klick's scumminess evaporated, after Thor took over his slot. Why did you not question him about anything much? How did he drop to a town read? Why did you dodge his questions repeatedly?

[Thor665]

So go on, explain where Klick's scumminess evaporated, after Thor took over his slot. Why did you not question him about anything much? How did he drop to a town read? Why did you dodge his questions repeatedly?

Because he was scum hoping for a mislynch on an easy lurk player.
This is hardly rocket science.

[TraceyLyn11]

-prod dodge-

[Thor665]

Is anyone against lynching Mala today?

[Malakittens]

Are we trying to deflect today's lynch off you and onto me why Thor?

Also why are you answering questions that were asked directly towards me?

I don't like that. -.-

[Thor665]

Yes, you caught me, I'm trying to deflect the lynch onto you while defensively answering questions for you.
Busted am I.

[TraceyLyn11]

@Tracey: You are setting it up so that it is "impossible" for you to be partners with Thor, and you can lynch him and look town because apparently it's not beneficial for scum to do that in 5 man lylo (which it actually is, very). I hate to be lazy and go back to my old reads, but that seems most likely right now.

Cool story, bro. You could say that I'm doing the same with Mit. Why aren't you saying that?

So are you scum with Vio? You have each other as your second scummiest read. Or are you scum with Thor? You have each other as your top townie read. Or are you scum with Mala? You have each other as town reads.

I could be scum with any of them. I don't understand your point here. Are you attacking me because I didn't include myself in the conclusion?

And I'd say that eliminating four teams as "impossible" (three of them containing your top scumread), based on spurious reasoning, is pretty indefensible.

You seem to believe that that little experiment I just played with is my only reasoning behind any of my reads. It's not. I used it because I was confused, and I thought it might help me sort out my thoughts. I was correct. That doesn't mean my experiment was correct or logical. As you and Thor keep pointing out,

it wasn't

. I can name two very large flaws in it: 1) Your reads. You don't have clear ones. 2) Vio's Mala read. But the end result was more or less what I was playing with in my mind. I just wanted to see it down on "paper". I'm not eliminating any teams as impossible. I'm saying based on what the experiment was used for, those teams are impossible. As a whole, they are not. I am not relying heavily on this. I'm not even relying on it moderately. It was basically just something to push me in the right direction and explain a few things.

@Mit - it's entirely defensible considering the rest of the reasoning. All it takes is saying 'scum wouldn't bus in lylo' which is a not unreasonable stance to take. Now, we could certainly show that scum have and do bus in lylo, but I can at least look at that logic and argue where she's coming from with it and so could you.

Also, seriously, what's your angle here "she's scum who is tossing away her best scumspect which is mostly agreed upon by others in order to attack the 2nd best overall town read in the game as the primary scum"?
She's obviously being town motivated, she's just using weak logic.

I really hate this post. I asked this before, but why are you being so nice? I don't like it. It's weird, it's not you, it's off, it's odd, it's no.

3. Well...
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4488319
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4488340
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4556291
There I am calling him scum on a number of occasions. I also had to repeat questions to him a couple times as is blatantly clear in my iso if you just search 'Mala'.

I looked at all of those.

1. Commented on her sidelining. Didn't list her in your list of possible scum. Said she was less scummy than the other sideliner (Vio) - possibly even townish. Not seeing the gold mine here.
2. Added Mala to a list of scum. Already three others were there. So she is in a list consisting of four people of eight. Still not seeing the gold mine.
3. Oh. Five people alive. You're not scum, I'm not scum. Mala's in with the other three because of... Process of elimination. Once again, no gold mine.

My issue with this is the fact that you have few interactions with Mala

and

you never list her as a concrete read despite listing her as scum on a number of occasions. You have continuously had her as a null-scumish read. You have hardly interacted with her whatsoever - which is really saying something since you're

Thor

. You're active, you address everyone, you attack everyone.

@Mala: Why are you being so useless right now? You keep pointing out things you dislike, but you're doing very well at not actually getting involved in anything. You're also doing nothing about the things you dislike besides expressing your distaste for them.

I think I might do a little skim through of ISO's to see if I should listen to my gut here. I plan on voting soon. This game is dragging on.

[Thor665]

I really hate this post. I asked this before, but why are you being so nice? I don't like it. It's weird, it's not you, it's off, it's odd, it's no.

Look at me across all my games.
I can't be specific but in an ongoing a number of people complained I was being rude. I don't want to be rude, I want to be charmingly obnoxious - if I have failed that line then I wanted to adjust and it's a clear adjustment across all of my games.
Welcome to nicer Thor.

Also, seriously - 'you're too nice, that is strange' that alone proves that I probably needed said adjustment.

you never list her as a concrete read despite listing her as scum on a number of occasions.

I feel like there's an immense level of derp here though.
Um...so I list her as scum, but never give a concrete read on her...bwuh?
Isn't calling her scum concrete? Maybe you should explain how that read differs from all of my others?

You have continuously had her as a null-scumish read. You have hardly interacted with her whatsoever - which is really saying something since you're

Thor

. You're active, you address everyone, you attack everyone.

Actually - In Mil's notes about that he admitted I had limited interactions with two other players - both flipped town.
It's a nonsensical case based on a clearly false premise and he even proved that himself.

[Malakittens]

I'm not being useless. I'm scared to place a vote because I don't even know who the scum are at this point. I have my theories, but nothing solid. If I place a vote and it's wrong then the scum hammers for the win. Right now, I'm leaning on lynching Mit over Thor. So sadly we need to make the CORRECT decision rather than the wrong decision.

I'm sure Mit is scum, but I'm wondering if it's a Mit/Thor team.

As far as being useless. Why are you calling me out for it, but not calling out Violet?

So, looking at the whole picture is even more baffling than the rest. So go on, explain where Klick's scumminess evaporated, after Thor took over his slot. Why did you not question him about anything much? How did he drop to a town read? Why did you dodge his questions repeatedly?

What questions of his have I dodged repeatedly? Since when is dodging questions = I'm paired with player x. Frankly it's not. I would think experienced scum would distance each other rather than dodge or ignore each other.

I tend to give replacements a few posts to redeem themselves before I go back to thinking they are scum. They can't really answer for what their predecessor did and it's unfair to a certain extent to say you are scum because your slot did this and that.

When Thor replaced in.. I saw some things that looked pro-town rather than scum.

Considering now we know what PM flipped. Klick's defense of PM is considered scummy to me. Then again, when Thor came in.. He started to attack PM which was opposite of what Klick was doing.

[Robocopter87]

Violet and your Moderator have been prodded.

[TraceyLyn11]

Look at me across all my games.
I can't be specific but in an ongoing a number of people complained I was being rude. I don't want to be rude, I want to be charmingly obnoxious - if I have failed that line then I wanted to adjust and it's a clear adjustment across all of my games.
Welcome to nicer Thor.

Also, seriously - 'you're too nice, that is strange' that alone proves that I probably needed said adjustment.

As a serious comment regardless of this specific game, I prefer you being "charmingly obnoxious" as you put it. It works for you, and it does its job. It's also just... Fun. It doesn't much feel like I'm playing with Thor this game because this is the first post you have called me derp in, I'm pretty sure!

Back to this specific game, you started being abnormally nice before the ongoing game in question started. Juss sayin'.

I feel like there's an immense level of derp here though.
Um...so I list her as scum, but never give a concrete read on her...bwuh?
Isn't calling her scum concrete? Maybe you should explain how that read differs from all of my others?

I consider concrete as either town or scum. You have listed Mala in several lists of possible scum. You have never given an actual concrete read on her, though. You have voted for all of the others or at some point in time had a solid read on them. You have not on Mala. She's always just behind all of your other scum reads it seems.

Actually - In Mil's notes about that he admitted I had limited interactions with two other players - both flipped town.
It's a nonsensical case based on a clearly false premise and he even proved that himself.

Where did he say that? What two players? I don't remember this.

@Mala: You were being useless until I called you out on it. Now look at that! Quality post. I called you out on it over Vio because while Vio is definitely being useless, he's also still managing to attack people. In a way that doesn't just cast soft-suspicion at them. He's being useless in the sense of HE NEEDS TO POST MOAR.

[Malakittens]

Actually, I have been attacking Mit over his WIFOM which IS something that I found scummy. I had notes on a possible Thor/Mit tean, but I accidentally restarted my computer and lost it.

[Thor665]

Back to this specific game, you started being abnormally nice before the ongoing game in question started. Juss sayin'.

You're looking at the wrong game then.
Also, I've used derp in reference to you a number of times already.

I consider concrete as either town or scum. You have listed Mala in several lists of possible scum. You have never given an actual concrete read on her, though. You have voted for all of the others or at some point in time had a solid read on them. You have not on Mala. She's always just behind all of your other scum reads it seems.

She has been.
If you can point me to the exciting Mala wagon I avoided then I'll even admit I'm playing it bad. But I've actually, of everyone here, been the most aggressive in calling Mala a scummy slot. So, tell me again why my reads on he slot are so skeevy...riiight.

Where did he say that? What two players? I don't remember this.

Look, I know now that apparently you *want* me to call you derp to help fulfill some sort of strange fantasy of yours, but what the heck?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4584910
It happened in the ancient times of 'last page'
And, yeah, Mil came up with a case and shot himself in the foot while advancing said case, and now you're picking it up and acting like it's somehow relevant because I've called mala scum but apparently didn't do it loud enough, even though I can't think of anyone who has really been doing it louder than me. Can you?
Tell you what, name the person here who has expressed the more clear read on Mala sooner than I did and I'll record a voice apology to you and use the word 'derp' at least five times.

The point is that we're trying to figure out if Mil looks like likely scum at all. I'm currently leaning no, but he keeps fighting for it because he is attacking things that I would not expect to be attacked by scum, but he's doing it in such a slip-shod way I'm having trouble separating the derp tell from the scum tell to see which is more extant. Meanwhile I'm glancing around to see if Vio/Mala makes sense to me as a pair, and I get rewarded with lurksack Mala now as a theory team with suddenly lurking Vio and meanwhile have this brilliant case popping up that literally makes no sense and it's actually the more town seeming people bandying it while the scummy seeming people avoid it like the plague.

So, yes, what now?

[Thor665]

Is anyone against lynching Mala today?

And look, our pro town people can't even answer this ruddy question for me.

[Mitillos]

Oh, look, stuff.

@Thor: I'm for lynching pretty much anyone at this point. Mala seems like a very good candidate (see below). Also, I didn't shoot myself in the foot. If you knew who was going to die, showing how good your reads are, by never voting or calling suspicion on the people who will be killed, is a good idea. But yeah, it's a very weak case, which makes it strange that Tracey would push it too.

@Mala: When did anyone say they're lynching Thor? Only Vio had him as a scum read. It seems to me you were really hoping that these attacks on him from me and Tracey would lead to some sort of mislynch. And you berate him for answering questions directed at you

and then you do not answer them yourself until several posts later

? And even when you do answer them, you actually don't. You can see which of his questions you dodged, by making an ISO on him and searching for "Mala". You'll miss a few, but most will be there. And I didn't say you're paired with him because you dodge him. I said you're scummy for dodging. Also, if a slot has a scum PM, it has a scum PM. Just because a player is good at appearing pro-town, this doesn't change their alignment. And yeah, you "gave Thor time to redeem himself", but you were content to let him do that alone, instead of interacting with him and trying to see what you can find. This is not town-motivated.

@Tracey: I'm saying that your suggestion that scum wouldn't put their partner as a top scum-read is absurd. I'm also showing you that, even if you take that as a limiter, you don't get to eliminate too many teams, so it's all kind of pointless, anyway. And, in the end, it comes down to WIFOM, because scum will do what they think will give them victory, not what they think is safe.

[Malakittens]

Uh. Considering from Tracey's posts it seems as she's going to vote Thor. Violet has a scum read on Thor and so do you.

I was at work so yeah I couldn't make a big post until I got home.

[Malakittens]

Also Mit since its beneficial to you. I guess you're okay with Tracey latching onto your idea, flip flopping from a huge town read on Thor and putting him into a possibility that he's scum in every combonation.

[Mitillos]

Oh, yes, I'm very OK with it, which is why I attacked her for it.
Keep flailing.

[Malakittens]

Yep, I'm totes flailing.

[Violet]

Mala and Mit are now using the same arguments I was at the beginning of Day 2.

But they're not technically being recycled because I doubt anyone read them in the first place, except Tracey. Who doesn't benefit from bringing them up.

Kick-Tracey and Thor-Tracey scumpair has been evident for a while now.

Is anyone against lynching Mala today?

Yes.

[Violet]

My reasoning for this. I was confused about Mit. Everyone was calling him scum. It didn't make sense for everyone to have him as a top scumread in LyLo unless he was town because, logically, his partner would not put him in such a position.

If I already said this then forgive me for repeating it, but scum benefits from bussing their partner now because it looks good later. It ensures a more likely victory the next day and everyone already suspected Mit and has for a long time, it'd look suspicious if someone suddenly thought he was really townish.

Mit's post #979 really made me consider this because he was right. No one was jumping on it.

That's not true at all. Everyone except you pointed out that it was heavy WIFOM and invalid logic. Plus Thor actually did attack him for it.

Violet, Thor, and Mala all came in attacking Mit. Looking at their reads, only one of them actually had him as a top scum read. It was weird. So voila!

I actually didn't come in attacking Mit, and he was my third scum-read when we have two scum in the game, I haven't attacked him all day. Bad logic is bad.

I'm really disappointed, that looked like a great post until I read it.