Newbie 1309: Never Say Never - Game Over

[Malakittens]

Ugh. My dad was starting the vacuum as I was thinking.

This: To me it's lining up lynches and I don't think he was deciding this before the flip and not after.

Should be this:

To me it's lining up lynches and I think he was deciding this before the flips and not after.

[UberNinja]

Newbie 1309 - Day Two - Vote Count 2.3

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JasonWazza [2] - Aj the Epic, fuzzybutternut
fuzzybutternut [2] - d3x, Malakittens

thudworm [1] - JasonWazza

Not voting (2)

: pirate mollie, thudworm

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Phase Deadline:

(expired on 2013-01-18 09:02:59)

[pirate mollie]

oh god I am so glad that jason decided to drop the boyscout routine I thought this game was gonna get boring with only mala to pester

@Jason - Are you more inclined to flip out like this as Scum or Town?

what kind of answer were you expecting when asking this question? a confession? lol

@ mala - what I am having a hard time understanding is why you moved fuzzy from town to scum. I am reading what you are posting and I am still not quite getting it. you also say that the best way for you to try to get a reaction from somebody is to follow it up with a vote...did you do this with jason? I don't remember. I mostly remember you fosing jason but not doing much about it.

fuzzy putting jason at L1 looks like a newb mistake one that thudworm also did but hey does thudworm read like a newb to you? I don't think so. so why the focus on fuzzy?

@ jason - so your premise for not being scum is cos you wouldn't have nked majiffy cos you could out meta him after he has pwned you when you were scum? lol

[Malakittens]

I could only vote one person at a time for pressure. I voted Thud for pressure which worked because well she's now contributing more than she was before. I thought Thud was scum for the same reason as Fuzz, but as I said recently her posts have been getting better which drops her from a high scum read. I thought Thud was scum for putting someone at L-1 during Day 1 yes.

[UberNinja]

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT:

Tomorrow's my scumday! So y'all better make me feel special! <3

[pirate mollie]

are you wanting a party?

[fuzzybutternut]

Actually, I wasn't lining up anything. In fact, my "decisions" as you call them, didn't come to me until I found out that Majiffy was NK'ed. I then reviewed the entire thread and picked out the most likely candidate for his untimely death. However, I will say this. I find it very suspicious that the two people voting for me have null-leaning-town reads on each other. And basically scum reads on everyone else. It has come to my attention that, apparently, there is some Mafia law that scum don't lead wagons, they just follow in the shadows so

FoS Malakittens

I find it less likely that you and d3x are scum buddies as opposed to you and Jason.

[Aj The Epic]

I say we devote all of tomorrow to worship of our overly-godly mod.

Fuzzy, it isn't surprising that the two voting for you have townish reads of each other. Most people do have town/near town reads of them.

[pirate mollie]

I could only vote one person at a time for pressure. I voted Thud for pressure which worked because well she's now contributing more than she was before. I thought Thud was scum for the same reason as Fuzz, but as I said recently her posts have been getting better which drops her from a high scum read. I thought Thud was scum for putting someone at L-1 during Day 1 yes.

so thud was a pressure vote and you voted earldy as scum even while soft fosing jason the entire day? your votes seem lateral to your main target of foses and that is why they are standing out. like you are still doing it.

[UberNinja]

are you wanting a party?

Yes... You will all throw me a party! So it has been decided.

I say we devote all of tomorrow to worship of our overly-godly mod.

Your worship will be appreciated, and basked in graciously.

[JasonWazza]

@ jason - so your premise for not being scum is cos you wouldn't have nked majiffy cos you could out meta him after he has pwned you when you were scum? lol

Clearly you didn't read the game he didn't pwn me, with my rolecop day 1 lynched and him replacing in after with a VCA that just happened to include me in the backup cop check (which mind you next to no-one ended up following) with me getting to LYLO and him being dead, i wouldn't say he pwned me, i would say that Nacho and DJD kicked my ass

Plus playing against that meta wouldn't be THAT hard considering i had to gun at majiffy for the VCA or be in huge shit.

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT:

Tomorrow's my scumday! So y'all better make me feel special! <3

Actually, I wasn't lining up anything. In fact, my "decisions" as you call them, didn't come to me until I found out that Majiffy was NK'ed.

I then reviewed the entire thread and picked out the most likely candidate for his untimely death.

However, I will say this. I find it very suspicious that the two people voting for me have null-leaning-town reads on each other. And basically scum reads on everyone else. It has come to my attention that, apparently,

there is some Mafia law that scum don't lead wagons

, they just follow in the shadows so

FoS Malakittens

I find it less likely that you and d3x are scum buddies as opposed to you and Jason.

Then where is your evidence for this?

It isn't law the fact is they normally don't, because that involves pushing hard which gets them heavily watched, yes some people as scum play like that

but most scum in GENERAL don't lead lynches.

I could only vote one person at a time for pressure. I voted Thud for pressure which worked because well she's now contributing more than she was before. I thought Thud was scum for the same reason as Fuzz, but as I said recently her posts have been getting better which drops her from a high scum read. I thought Thud was scum for putting someone at L-1 during Day 1 yes.

so thud was a pressure vote and you voted earldy as scum even while soft fosing jason the entire day? your votes seem lateral to your main target of foses and that is why they are standing out. like you are still doing it.

How was your FoSing of me any better?

[pirate mollie]

cos I gave a good reason at the time as to why I was not going to vote you even if you don't understand it. it was before the replacements kicked in and so I instead focused on a potential partner.

[JasonWazza]

So in other words you were calling me scum but focused on the other scum, ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU JUST HAD A SHIT FIT OVER MALA DOING?

[pirate mollie]

lol, your hyperbole is unimpressive. I fosed you and then backed off cos I was not comfortable lynching the IC at the time and I did not want to be left in a game with a bunch of newbs and unintentionally teach them my terribad habits. thank god that shit over and done with.

I doubt mala would have had the same reasons I did. so you are conflating different motivations and trying to make them add up into something equal. I think it is called false equivalence.

[Malakittens]

Actually, I wasn't lining up anything. In fact, my "decisions" as you call them, didn't come to me until I found out that Majiffy was NK'ed. I then reviewed the entire thread and picked out the most likely candidate for his untimely death. However, I will say this. I find it very suspicious that the two people voting for me have null-leaning-town reads on each other. And basically scum reads on everyone else. It has come to my attention that, apparently, there is some Mafia law that scum don't lead wagons, they just follow in the shadows so

FoS Malakittens

I find it less likely that you and d3x are scum buddies as opposed to you and Jason.

Okay. Please tell me how this isn't lining up lynches? If Earl flips town then Jiffy has to be scum for his case on him. Then again Jiffy didn't lead the wagon, but you did. So you and him are just equally at fault because you both were wrong in perusing a player. The fact is you might know your own alignment, but you are putting the fault on another person for doing a similar thing as you did.

Well.. What can I say? I don't like voting a player after my scumread hops onto the wagon. It gives me an icky feeling. :/
Plus you make it sound bad that you think it's unholy that two leaning town reads can't be voting on the same wagon. It's like you have a problem with people making a block. When townreads make a block like that it's pretty strong and helps win a game a lot smoother than when it's not united like that. Why are you so scared of a block happening? Is it bad for me to have scum reads on other players? You didn't have a problem with me voting Jason today when I had a town read on AJ, but now that I jumped onto your wagon you seem to have a problem with that.

Scum don't like to lead wagons no, but I have seen very experienced scum lead it. Clearly we aren't going to go into why this FoS sounds retaliatory and just for you to make it semi-appropriate you decide to label it "they follow in the shadows".

Explain why I can't be buddies with D3x, but why Jason and I are more plausible.

Seems like you are just trying to deflect all suspicion off yourself and onto others.

I could only vote one person at a time for pressure. I voted Thud for pressure which worked because well she's now contributing more than she was before. I thought Thud was scum for the same reason as Fuzz, but as I said recently her posts have been getting better which drops her from a high scum read. I thought Thud was scum for putting someone at L-1 during Day 1 yes.

so thud was a pressure vote and you voted earldy as scum even while soft fosing jason the entire day? your votes seem lateral to your main target of foses and that is why they are standing out. like you are still doing it.

Thud wasn't just a pressure vote because I thought Thud was scum. I voted Earl because I honestly thought he was scum. I wasn't soft FoSing Jason because at the time there were more important things to follow up on.

Mollie you sidelined your vote all during Day 1, but because I wasn't sidelining my vote.

Ugh. I hate when people try to use something against someone when they are doing almost the same exact thing.

[d3x]

what kind of answer were you expecting when asking this question? a confession? lol

I was expecting a reaction, and I got one.

[JasonWazza]

lol, your hyperbole is unimpressive. I fosed you and then backed off cos I was not comfortable lynching the IC at the time and I did not want to be left in a game with a bunch of newbs and unintentionally teach them my terribad habits. thank god that shit over and done with.

I doubt mala would have had the same reasons I did. so you are conflating different motivations and trying to make them add up into something equal. I think it is called false equivalence.

I never mentioned the motives behind them so i did not do false equivalence (i haven't even heard of that XD)

What i was saying is that if you are town and are using "scum tells" that you yourself are doing, your probably not looking right (the only difference in this is a gambit of some sort) and should try to look for other scum tells.

what kind of answer were you expecting when asking this question? a confession? lol

I was expecting a reaction, and I got one.

Want to tell us what you are learning from these reaction tests?

[d3x]

Want to tell us what you are learning from these reaction tests?

Singular, but that's besides the point. My initial thoughts to your reaction are thusly...

You've been flipping out, which is not your SOP for this game, nor is it generally SOP for ICs in Newb Games, iIRC. I did a quick metaskim on you before asking, and I didn't neccessarily see anything substantial that points to this in either meta. I was curious to see if you would be succinct in your response or if you'd try and put on airs. You responded blandly, pointing to your meta instead of trying to convince me by possibly pointing to a random game where you may have done something like this once. There are some but not many Town points in this, as I gave you a real nice window of opportunity to ham it up. Overall, I have this reaction as Null Leaning Town. This moved you from Scummy to Null Leaning Scummy on my reads {posted immediately after the response}. I would now rather Lynch thud over you, but she's still behind fuzz.

Satisfied?

[JasonWazza]

Want to tell us what you are learning from these reaction tests?

Singular, but that's besides the point. My initial thoughts to your reaction are thusly...

Sorry i may have confused you and AJ (reaction test on P_M) for a moment there

You've been flipping out, which is not your SOP for this game, nor is it generally SOP for ICs in Newb Games, iIRC. I did a quick metaskim on you before asking, and I didn't neccessarily see anything substantial that points to this in either meta. I was curious to see if you would be succinct in your response or if you'd try and put on airs. You responded blandly, pointing to your meta instead of trying to convince me by possibly pointing to a random game where you may have done something like this once. There are some but not many Town points in this, as I gave you a real nice window of opportunity to ham it up. Overall, I have this reaction as Null Leaning Town. This moved you from Scummy to Null Leaning Scummy on my reads {posted immediately after the response}. I would now rather Lynch thud over you, but she's still behind fuzz.

Satisfied?

Give me a second to show you a flip out by an IC

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23866

Nacho flips when the lynch occurs (Post #39 it's kinda funny), this game ended up being ended due to issues with a player, and restarted as a second version so it is ok to talk about it. he posts 17 or so times in the time it goes from post 39-101 (which all happened in an RL hour)

Also i tend not to give people much when it comes to meta, meta is shit reasoning as all games are different (if someone does something every game he plays as scum though then it's sorta ok).

If you want ham go to the butchers

As for me i know i tend to stay calm but as town i wanted to get my point out before i was lynched (it really looked like today would be too quick and thus i put out everything i could on someone i think is scum)

[fuzzybutternut]

Give me a little to read over everything, as I didn't have internet to do so last night.
Furthermore:

Happy ScumDay Uber

[pirate mollie]

Happy scumday uberninja!

here have some cake:

[Majiffy]

That cake looks delicious.

[pirate mollie]

okay, *le sigh*

I did not side-line my vote yesterday I switched several times and was pushing for an aj lynch towards the end. I was the only one who wanted it. I can sort of see why you guys think aj is town if I try real hard but not really. I am now mostly going with majiffy's read on him so I am leaving him alone for now.

I explained why I was not going to vote jason yesterday. the dynamics have obviously changed with the replacements. I waffled on him yesterday cos of his and dx's xpost which I have found town to do this more than scum. that in and of itself is not a solid tell it takes an overall body of work before I can determine someone's alignment unless I am familiar with their meta and then sometimes I can read someone in 1 post which freaks some people out. I was going to lynch him earlier but I did like how quickly the bw picked up steam so I have held off and we are no where near ready to end the day. jason is still my preferred lynch choice I think unless something else jumps out.

what mala has done is different. she had a strong town read on fuzzy at a time when I did not, voted earldy for reasons I am not entirely clear on, backpedaled on her town read on fuzzy moved him into her scum pile while the entire time hardcore fosing jason for 2 days.

the 2 are totally different and if you people cannot see this then omg.

dx in my newbie game the IC did meltdown, a couple of times in fact. it was pretty funny. we are friends now.

jason it is not just "scumtells" it is about determining whether or not posts are coming from a town or scum POV. right now mala is confusing me and she rarely does so I am picking at her to try either a)shake out clearer town signal or b)get her to do something incredibly scummy. your wking of her is duly noted though.

[Malakittens]

Okay. Mollie don't put words in my mouth. Fuzzy was never a 'strong' town read. He was a town read however. If you don't see why he's gone from a town read to a scum read then I have to think you are either his partner or you're backpedaling on your reads yourself. I had my reasons for voting Early over Fuzzy, but just because you don't clearly understand them does not make me scummy.

I already explained why Fuzzy today has move to a scum read, but you are saying I hardcored FoS'd Jason during Day 1 and I voted Jason during Day 2, but got off the wagon when my scum read jumped onto it and put him at L-1 when Day 2 nearly just begun. Reasons I don't like Fuzzy putting him at L-1 made me think he was looking for a quick lynch and quick lynches aren't helpful to town. The more Days goes on the more information comes out of it and the easier it IS to find connections and scum.

How is anything you're accusing me of doing any different than what you are doing?

[pirate mollie]

okay.

I already spoke of the motivation piece.

if fuzzy flips town then what? if fuzzy flips scum then what?