Newbie Setup (Matrix6 implemented)

Quilford · Post Post #300 (ISO) » Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:30 pm

In post 288, Majiffy wrote:The only downside with using the top 3 is that scum knows there are 2 PRs if they have a RB. Other than that, using the top three seems alright.

Also, town is shit at single Doc setup.

callforjudgement · Post Post #301 (ISO) » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:31 am

That's because the power of a Doctor relates a lot to what they have to protect.

If the best a Doctor can do is to protect particularly townish-looking VTs, it's not going to help the town that much; they're going to have to land the protection twice before town gets much advantage from it, so it's not a huge discouragement to scum shooting the town's top townreads in order to gain an advantage; if the doctor hits for the first time, they're going to have to randomize their target a bit more the second time, but this isn't a huge detriment to scum. Not as bad as mountainous, but not nearly powerful enough to be balanced in an otherwise mountainous 2:7.

If Doctors can protect power roles, on the other hand (particularly investigative roles like Cop and Jailkeeper), they become a lot more useful.

Cheery Dog · Post Post #302 (ISO) » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:46 am

1276 was a single doc setup that had no night kills on the first two nights, so it's still possible. (though night 2 only ended that way due to mafia forgetting to send in their kill (which would have been on the doc))
Even though town then had the advantage of having 3 confirmed town (since the doc had gone for town) and a lynchpool consisting of 4 players, scum still managed to pull of a victory.

greygnarl · Post Post #303 (ISO) » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:32 am

In post 299, greygnarl wrote:
In post 277, Faraday wrote:Eh. Would it be much longer if games were started as they filled as opposed to in batches of 3/4? Seems like it'd be quicker on average then.

If wait time is a problem then why not this?

Mr. Flay · Post Post #304 (ISO) » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:35 am

I actually don't understand what you're asking, greyaday. We've already said we don't understand why they're batched, but singer has been moving and hasn't replied.

BBmolla · Post Post #305 (ISO) » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:55 am

In post 300, Quilford wrote:
In post 288, Majiffy wrote:The only downside with using the top 3 is that scum knows there are 2 PRs if they have a RB. Other than that, using the top three seems alright.

Also, town is shit at single Doc setup.

Apparently better than the one with the cop.

Hume · Post Post #306 (ISO) » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:20 am

In post 305, BBmolla wrote:Apparently better than the one with the cop.

That's interesting. In F11, Doc / 6 VT vs. Goon / RB did better than Cop / 6 VT vs. Goon / RB, but in 2of4, Doc / 6 VT vs. Goon / Rolecop did worse than Cop / 6 VT vs. Goon Rolecop.

zoraster · Post Post #307 (ISO) » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:23 am

No. In F11, the roleblocker isn't present in either the Doc only or Cop only setups, only in the Doc AND Cop setups and mountainous.

Hume · Post Post #308 (ISO) » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:39 am

In post 307, zoraster wrote:No. In F11, the roleblocker isn't present in either the Doc only or Cop only setups, only in the Doc AND Cop setups and mountainous.

Ah, thought I'd probably misread that somewhere, it did seem strange. My bad. That does produce something even weirder, though, surely - if I'm not wrong, F11 can produce 2x Goon vs. Cop / 6x VT, and 2of4 can produce Goon / Rolecop vs. Cop / 6x VT. The win rate for the former was 35.37% Town, the win rate for the latter was 50.00%. Seems to me there are three possible conclusions we could draw from that. First is it's just a statistical anomaly. Second is that the introduction of a Rolecop for Mafia actually acts a buff to Town. Third is that the presence of mountainous in F11 and the consequence that there could be 0-2 power roles rather than 1-2 as in 2of4 meant that false-claiming was a breaking tactic for Mafia. Fourth is that the site metagame has changed in a way beneficial to Town and damaging to Mafia. Any thoughts?

callforjudgement · Post Post #309 (ISO) » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:41 am

Did the makeup of the players in the game change, too? IIRC there used to be four ICs, rather than just one, but I don't know whether that change was made before or after the first set of statistics.

quadz08 · Post Post #310 (ISO) » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:42 am

Hi. Singer's computer has a cracked screen and she is also sick.

Wheeeeeeeeeeee.

callforjudgement · Post Post #311 (ISO) » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:47 am

Who's the backup list mod for the Newbie queue?

This sounds like the right sort of time for a backup to get involved.

zoraster · Post Post #312 (ISO) » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:50 am

effectively quadz.

quadz08 · Post Post #313 (ISO) » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:17 am

That'd be me, yes. And I am involved.

greygnarl · Post Post #314 (ISO) » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:18 am

In post 304, Mr. Flay wrote:I actually don't understand what you're asking, greyaday. We've already said we don't understand why they're batched, but singer has been moving and hasn't replied.

Bitmap · Post Post #315 (ISO) » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:38 pm

I'm curious, why is it 1 IC and 2 SE per game and not more/less?

Quilford · Post Post #316 (ISO) » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:47 pm

In post 305, BBmolla wrote:
In post 300, Quilford wrote:
In post 288, Majiffy wrote:The only downside with using the top 3 is that scum knows there are 2 PRs if they have a RB. Other than that, using the top three seems alright.

Also, town is shit at single Doc setup.

Apparently better than the one with the cop.

(Still shit, though.)

Vi · Post Post #317 (ISO) » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:47 am

In post 315, Bitmap wrote:I'm curious, why is it 1 IC and 2 SE per game and not more/less?

More, and it ensures that almost half of the Newbie game isn't comprised of Newbies.

When I started, there were no such things as SEs and there were two ICs in the game. I think they canned that because they couldn't get enough ICs.

Mr. Flay · Post Post #318 (ISO) » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:22 am

In post 317, Vi wrote:When I started, there were no such things as SEs and there were two ICs in the game. I think they canned that because they couldn't get enough ICs.

Basically, yeah. And I can't remember the exact genesis of SEs, but it had something to do with people wanting to play the game more, and the queue clogging.

callforjudgement · Post Post #319 (ISO) » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:08 pm

Anyone know why the SE queue is quite so long, anyway? People wanting to play with newbies in particular? People who think 2of4 is a

really great

setup? People who think they aren't very good at playing still and want games with ICs in where they won't be shouted at?

Mehdi2277 · Post Post #320 (ISO) » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:14 pm

Supposedly the set up is an important part since I know I've seen SEs in the thread say that they only join for the set up. Running one or two as a micro could lessen it.

zoraster · Post Post #321 (ISO) » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:25 pm

the goal isn't to exhaust our supplies of SEs and ICs. A long queue there is great.

Cheery Dog · Post Post #322 (ISO) » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:12 pm

In post 319, callforjudgement wrote:Anyone know why the SE queue is quite so long, anyway? People wanting to play with newbies in particular? People who think 2of4 is a
really great
setup? People who think they aren't very good at playing still and want games with ICs in where they won't be shouted at?

All of the above I think. (though I don't think the setup is that great, it's still a nice simple one to play)
I'm also using it currently to see how I think I would go if I were to sign up to be an IC

Bitmap · Post Post #323 (ISO) » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:03 pm

Since the SE queue is always huge and backlogged, why not make the games have 3 SEs instead of 2?

CityElectric · Post Post #324 (ISO) » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:11 am

In post 319, callforjudgement wrote:Anyone know why the SE queue is quite so long, anyway? People wanting to play with newbies in particular? People who think 2of4 is a
really great
setup? People who think they aren't very good at playing still and want games with ICs in where they won't be shouted at?

I thought it was mainly the last one, but, and this is said before, I've seen people who liked the setup.