NY 160B - Welcome to Castle Zar - TIME FOR FIREWORKS!


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Post Post #775 (ISO) » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:23 pm

Post by Nobody Special »

Wait, shos isn't in this game? O_o


I am going to (for the moment) sheep Tammy's townread on Empire, mainly as I have no direct experience. HOWEVER, I initially had him as a scumread, so that may change on further reading/activity.


Based on my earlier speculation of Johhog v. Mehdi, I'll go ahead and say Johhog is town (for now).

I'll just . Note to self: Who thought Vi was scum?


Empire: Care to comment on and ?


In re: the struck-out section above, I have to say I think Empire is scum with Baby.

Withholding my vote for the moment, as it's very early in the day, and I'd like to hear from Empire.
....what?



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Post Post #776 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:34 am

Post by DeasVail »

SAD can be town for now.

SnowStorm is still kind of eh. I thought the fishy thing may have been a towntell, but I'm not as sure now. Zach's reasoning is alright too.

Konowa is kind of scummy actually.

Zach's kind of townish.

NS can be a decentish townread.

Preference for scum would probably be:

Konowa > SnowStorm > Zach > NS

If there's scum outside that, then I've got something wrong as I'm decently confident in the others. Not that I'd be too surprised though.

Vote: SnowStorm
because I'm just too cool.
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Post Post #777 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:52 am

Post by Konowa »

I'll get to this in a few hours. Haven't read anything yet.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder,
without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better,
and not the world about them?
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Post Post #778 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:31 am

Post by Nobody Special »

DeasVail... thoughts on Empire?
....what?



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Post Post #779 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:52 am

Post by Empire »

In post 775, Nobody Special wrote:Empire: Care to comment on and ?

Erm, I thought I explained my thought process fine in those posts, but I'll go over it again. Even though I had Baby Spice as a non-townread, I always had a feeling that she was just incompetent town (especially e.g., the emphasis on justification on votes and her playstyle). I didn't like how her wagon came up quickly in response to two wagons on consensus lynches Zach/Nacho whose predecessors had both done some scummy things (especially Nacho's slot re: DGB's replace out and Kingmaker's general non-existence in the game). I thought both yours and DV's votes were couched in poor justifications for jumping on the Baby wagon and had basically the same reaction roflcopter did, your reasoning being particularly shitty. So I voted Nacho thinking his slot had the best chance of flipping scum.

---

More interaction stuff in the next posts, should be able to get the rest done today.
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Post Post #780 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:49 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 778, Nobody Special wrote:DeasVail... thoughts on Empire?

He's probably the main townread I'm worried about, just because he hasn't really done much that I think scum wouldn't do. I do think he's town though mainly because of him being more pro-town at this stage than I'd expect from him as scum.
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Post Post #781 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:51 am

Post by DeasVail »

Empire, what was wrong with my justification for voting Baby Spice?
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Post Post #782 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:58 am

Post by Ser Arthur Dayne »

I can see a SS-Zach-Baby team.

Though the setup also prob has an SK (though no SK would prob shoot Baby) or a traitor or something.
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Post Post #783 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:15 am

Post by DeasVail »

If we could not talk about the Vig/SK until we get a claim (if we do get one), that would be amazing.
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Post Post #784 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:22 am

Post by SnowStorm »

I need more time to reply to Tammy.

In post 776, DeasVail wrote:
Preference for scum would probably be:

Konowa > SnowStorm > Zach > NS

If there's scum outside that, then I've got something wrong as I'm decently confident in the others. Not that I'd be too surprised though.

Vote: SnowStorm
because I'm just too cool.


What? Why did you vote me instead of Konowa? That doesn't really make you cool... and I was starting to think you were cool.
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Post Post #785 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:28 am

Post by DeasVail »

Well I already gave a reason, but if you really want another, there's not much difference between you and Konowa for me and you already have a vote so...

But yeah, I'm really still deciding between you and Konowa for who I want to push today to be honest.
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Post Post #786 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:31 am

Post by Empire »

In post 781, DeasVail wrote:Empire, what was wrong with my justification for voting Baby Spice?

Well first off, I thought the timing was weird because you hadn't really expressed any suspicion of Baby before Nacho put down his vote. Secondly, while the point that Baby was white-knighting Mehdi for cred seemed valid, I thought it was a misrepresentation to say that she wasn't doing much to fight the lynch - I thought Baby
was
actively trying to fight it by presenting Johhog as a counter-wagon option. It was a dumb as hell wagon since I thought Johhog was very townie but it was there (and honestly, that situation added to the notion that Baby was possibly just an incompetent townie).

In post 783, DeasVail wrote:If we could not talk about the Vig/SK until we get a claim (if we do get one), that would be amazing.

^This so very hard. Can we please stop bringing it up?
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Post Post #787 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:34 am

Post by Empire »

Actually, looking back, you did express some suspicion in #555 but there was really no follow up until Nacho put down his vote and I thought that was really weird.
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Post Post #788 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:39 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 786, Empire wrote:Well first off, I thought the timing was weird because you hadn't really expressed any suspicion of Baby before Nacho put down his vote. Secondly, while the point that Baby was white-knighting Mehdi for cred seemed valid, I thought it was a misrepresentation to say that she wasn't doing much to fight the lynch - I thought Baby was actively trying to fight it by presenting Johhog as a counter-wagon option. It was a dumb as hell wagon since I thought Johhog was very townie but it was there (and honestly, that situation added to the notion that Baby was possibly just an incompetent townie).

I think I said she was one of my scumreads at some point, but it shouldn't really matter. Also, that's not really what it felt like to me, because before I said anything (fairly late Day 1 after replacing in) I don't think she explained at all why she thought Mehdi was town, (which is what you'd do I think as town) and it just didn't seem like she was trying to get the town to lynch Johhog (even though she was attacking him), but maybe that wasn't valid, I don't know.

PEdit: It was getting close to deadline and obviously Snow wasn't getting lynched and she seemed like the best option then, as I wanted to hear more from Nacho.
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Post Post #789 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:44 am

Post by DeasVail »

Oh and I became less sure of my scumread on Snow too.
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Post Post #790 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:14 am

Post by Johhog »

VOTE: Konowa

He's been invisible in this game. Yesterday he preferred lynching Zach or Nacho while he distanced himself from Baby Spice slightly. At the same time he avoided putting pressure on her. He also have a bunch of nice and sure town reads ready to show, predictably without any reasoning. What he's been saying all game is "You're town. You're town too. You're scum". And that's why you'll most likely fail to remember a single post made by this guy.
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Post Post #791 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:16 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 790, Johhog wrote:VOTE: Konowa

He's been invisible in this game. Yesterday he preferred lynching Zach or Nacho while he distanced himself from Baby Spice slightly. At the same time he avoided putting pressure on her. He also have a bunch of nice and sure town reads ready to show, predictably without any reasoning. What he's been saying all game is "You're town. You're town too. You're scum". And that's why you'll most likely fail to remember a single post made by this guy.

I agree with most of the first part, but the reads thing is not necessarily scummy.
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Post Post #792 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:20 am

Post by Empire »

Baby Spice's Interactions With Other Slots Party Four (MoI/Zach):


A quick CTRL + F search of MoI's ISO reveals that he doesn't mention Baby Spice at all throughout - only passing mention is in #481 where he sarcastically criticizes Arthur's reasoning for suspecting Baby and Mehdi of being a team. Baby mentions MoI a few times but not in any substantial manner, throwing a passing critique in #534 but never really going anywhere with it. Most important thing about their interaction, I think, is Baby's reasoning for not having a read on MoI in #557 referring to a personal grudge that they had in the past. I honestly have no clue if Baby would bring up a past grudge as an excuse to not have a read on MoI if they were a hypothetical scum duo, though. Zach's main mention of Baby is in #713 where he expresses some suspicion. While he doesn't commit the vote, I don't really see that in and of itself as scummy given the circumstances. Overall, though, I think this slot does actually have a decent shot at being Baby's partner but I'm not confident at all.

Baby Spice's Interactions With Other Slots Part Five (Konowa):


Again, a CTRL + F search here reveals very, very little interaction between the two - only mention Konowa makes of Baby in his ISO in a passing question regarding her read on MoI's slot in #648 which Baby never answers and which Konowa doesn't follow up on. Baby only mentions Konowa in passing once in the early game, in #63 where she says she disagrees with Konowa's reasoning re: NS' posting. Looking at interactions alone, this is another decent shot at a Baby Spice partner.

Baby Spice's Interactions With Other Slots Part Six (DV):


My issues with his vote on the Baby wagon are already on the record (though his recent posting does a bit to resolve the problems I had). DV's first mention of Baby is in #203 and later on in #276 where he questions Baby about her read on Mehdi and why she isn't doing more to fight the wagon. Baby condescendingly responds in #279 (e.g., "Context is a good thing you know DV") - taken together, I think it's a minor point against them being partners. #555 is where he first expresses that he suspects Baby. The one thing I really need to take another look at is his vote on Baby in #723 - I think around here the Zach, Nacho, and Baby wagons were all at equal size. Him pushing Baby to the forefront by voting her here would normally be a really weird time to bus. Normally, I think wagon analysis/VCA is a dog shit junk science but someone who actually finds it useful should look into this please. Also need to look at how DV usually treats his partners as scum. I think my main issue with his slot is the lack of consistent pressure on Baby Spice and the roflcopter NK but bleh.
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Post Post #793 (ISO) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:32 am

Post by Johhog »

In post 791, DeasVail wrote:I agree with most of the first part, but the reads thing is not necessarily scummy.

Perhaps you're missing my point. It's not scummy in itself that he doesn't give reasons, that might as well be laziness. It's the fact that he continually does this that makes me suspect that he's doing it because he can't justify his reads.
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Post Post #794 (ISO) » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:56 am

Post by Zachrulez »

Yesterday ended up being a busier workday than expected. Looking through ISOs now and stuff.
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Post Post #795 (ISO) » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:37 am

Post by Konowa »

Vote: Zachrulez

Reasons for MoI slot being scum still valid and then there is 713, which is a doozy of a scum post.

Johog, I think you're placing too much of your case of me being "invisible" as scum when it's more of a byproduct of my gameplay and me getting burnt out.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder,
without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better,
and not the world about them?
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Post Post #796 (ISO) » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:44 am

Post by Johhog »

I've looked at your other games, earlier as well as ongoing, and you're never this quiet. And that, coupled with your interactions with Baby Spice is enough for me. I don't really have any great, sure scum reads after the demise of Baby Spice, so you're my best bet. Dayne, Tammy and DeasVail are all strong town reads. Empire and NS are both town. Zach is null. SS (that's a terrible abbreviation) is null-scum. You're scum.
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Post Post #797 (ISO) » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:54 am

Post by Zachrulez »

In post 795, Konowa wrote:
Vote: Zachrulez

Reasons for MoI slot being scum still valid and then there is 713, which is a doozy of a scum post.


Can't answer for Moi, but it would be great if you actually explained what is supposedly scummy about 713, without that you're just pushing a bandwagon with an empty statement.
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Post Post #798 (ISO) » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:27 am

Post by Zachrulez »

I want to see more from Snowstorm, particularly a vote. Isoing him reveals he's only done so twice over the entire game. He did state suspicion of Baby Spice, but that came in response to my posting in regards to his questioning of him. I can't really see where he's conveying what his suspicions are and that's another thing that's bothering me about him right now.

Konowa I want to see some substantial content from, he's been coasting along for quite some time and been largely invisible. Reasoning of any kind for any of his reads would be a good start.
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Post Post #799 (ISO) » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:31 am

Post by Konowa »

Johog, like I said I think me being quiet is a combination of style and me getting burnt out. I can see why one would view that as scummy though. As far as my interactions with Baby, I do not know how you are interpreting them as distancing. I preferred MoI lynch based on D1 interactions, or lackthereof, with Mehdi wagon. I think that Tammy brought up the point that despite Baby's one game with MoI, link in this thread somewhere, it should not give her an excuse for not giving a read on MoI. She was not responding to Tammy, so I hoped that added pressure for her to give a read on MoI would yield some results. I think 713 is more likely to be distancing if you are looking for relational tells like that.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder,
without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better,
and not the world about them?

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