Open 473: Jungle Republic GAME OVER

[Thor665]

Who me? You're more than welcome to hop on my wagon, but it may be to your detriment.

Well, threats always scare me off.

Want to offer your thoughts on my reaction anyway? (I'm claiming your meta is shifting - in case you didn't notice)

[ProHawk]

That's what I was counting on...

What reaction are you referring to?

[Thor665]

The one where, like I literally just said, I suggested your meta was shifting.

In a shocking revelation it happened in the last post I refereed to you in - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4642951
And we've literally been talking about it.

[ProHawk]

Sorry Thor, remember when I said Whiskers was two-steps behind you? Consider that me. You are going to have to dumb it way down for me.

[Thor665]

I have played a game with you before.
I expressed opinions about the way you played.
So did you.
In this game you indicated a desire to back off of a brawl with someone because someone else called it town vs. town.
I suggested that this reaction from you does not hold true with my comprehension of your meta.

Discuss.

[Tajun]

Pro is going to be hugging Thor's leg the first few days of the game, Thor will defend him right back, and then on day, oh, 3? Prohawk will turn around and say, "jeez guys, I was wrong! Thor must be mafia!"
Aaah, we have two scumteams. ok.

What do you mean by this? Did you mean that you think Thor and Prohawk are on opposed scumteams? If so, why the suspicion of Thor, and why do you think they are not aligned?

also Tajun, i think, asked why I think HD is townie.
I don't necessarily. originally, it was, "He's town if ProHawk is scum", unless ProHawk was sheeping his scumbuddy-- but I doubted that a little bit.
Of course, considering Mafia & Werewolves, "He's not the same alignment as ProHawk" unless prohawk was sheeping his buddy, which = [HD might be either town or scum], if [PH is one of town or scum] = NO USEFUL INFORMATION.

Too soon to call.

I'm almost afraid to ask, but why did you call HD a townie in post 35, if this is the case?

not sure what to make of alduskkel soft pushing the whisker wagon yet.

don't like how easily prohawk was convinced to sheep
or how he passes off some of his vote responsibility to thor
or his follow up attacks on whiskers

vote: ProHawk

Don't like this case one bit. The first two points were irrelevant as they were in RVS, and the third I simply don't agree with. I think he was looking for a wagon to join, and found a weak excuse. I don't like his reactions to Thor page three either.

Page 2 has scum slips for Aldus and town slips for Thor.

Aldus voting mod that is ridiculous and are trying to do nothing and dismiss it as "having fun". Staying in RVS?
I don't have Whiskers and Prohawk as being aligned. I don't buy them as bussing each other. But Whisker's wagon though is built out of confirmation bias that everyone has for Thor so it looks like a damn reach.
Tajun is also scum slipping. Two "question-prods"? Yeah, no. Scum #2.

Vote: Aldus

Where are Thor's "townslips" as you call them? (Yeah, more questions. Deal with it.)

Alright, I think Whiskers has sufficiently overreacted to warrant a vote.

VOTE: Whiskers

A bit nervous about Alduskkel as well, the mod vote feels a bit forced, and not all that useful. Alduskkel, any thoughts on the minor wagon here?

If I may ask, what makes you think it's an overreaction? Whiskers said one, maybe two

minorly

scummy things during his textwall (and frankly, being

too

town once a vote's been placed on you is one of the biggest scumtells of all). Everything else was a completely valid point.

The points were valid enough, on the whole. What struck me as an overreaction was that he decided to make a wall defence of an RVS wagon in the first place, not really how he went about doing it. Serious overreaction to a weak/non-existant case.

Still a bit suspicious, but for now,
UNVOTE:
VOTE: 4nxi3ty

The above is the scummiest thing I have seen so far. The Alduskkel wagon is meh at best, he isn't really being helpful, but he is also not trying to avoid attention, and he seems fairly forthright so far. Ditto the Prohawk wagon; I hate to tell you guys, but assholishness isn't indicative of alignment, and I don't see much of a case beyond that.

[Sky]

This is scum-hesitance, plain and simple.

What makes it scum hesitance? Do I have to throw my vote around at every player I find scummy? Wouldn't that make me look bad?

Why do you care about how you look? Town doesn't need to look good, they need to lynch scum.

Disagree. If you're town you want to find scum AND not get yourself lynched. A townie lynch doesn't advance the town WinCo.

Answer me this ProHawk, why did you go after Whiskers in the first place? I lost it amid the bashing.

[Whiskers]

Pro is going to be hugging Thor's leg the first few days of the game, Thor will defend him right back, and then on day, oh, 3? Prohawk will turn around and say, "jeez guys, I was wrong! Thor must be mafia!"
Aaah, we have two scumteams. ok.

What do you mean by this? Did you mean that you think Thor and Prohawk are on opposed scumteams? If so, why the suspicion of Thor, and why do you think they are not aligned?

I

mean

, that Prohawk is going to try to keep Thor as his big buddy, because Thor is a good player, Thor has shown he takes complements well, and

because Prohawk is scum

.
Of course, this means I'm about to be hung in my own noose if I reply to this honestly:

Why do you care about how you look? Town doesn't need to look good, they need to lynch scum.

Yes, but in order to lynch scum, town

does

need to look good. Town that looks like scum gets lynched as scum. Also, you can't push an unpopular lynch through if you don't have any power.

But I don't think ProHawk thinks like this.

As for the rest of that bit, Tajun, my scumplay would be similar (though maybe I wouldn't buddy up to someone as obvious as

Thor

). After I start running out of easy scapegoats-- weak players, lurkers, dueling wagons, whoever is at hoof-- I'd turn around and say, "Hey, this guy I was protecting? Yeah, I must have been wrong about him! He's next."


Now reading all the other stuff.

[Whiskers]

I'm almost afraid to ask, but why did you call HD a townie in post 35, if this is the case?

I thought HD was more likely townie for making the RVS vote on Thor, and ProHawk more likely scum for sheeping it (sneaky sneaky), and that they probably weren't on the same team (meaning, 1 town, 1 scum) because scumplayers don't usually sheep their teammates like that (and prohawk is a very experienced player; 15+ games onsite iirc).
Then I remembered that there are two scumteams, so HD could be scum doing it anyway, and ProHawk could be otherscum.

I had a really weak townread on HD, and now it's a really weak town-or-scumread.

Also,

Why do you care about how you look? Town doesn't need to look good, they need to lynch scum.

Disagree. If you're town you want to find scum AND not get yourself lynched. A townie lynch doesn't advance the town WinCo.

Answer me this ProHawk, why did you go after Whiskers in the first place? I lost it amid the bashing.

Fuck yeah.

[Rob14]

I need to re-read ProHawk in NY 159 where he was town, but I don't remember him being this aggressive or snarky as town. There's a few things I've seen that make me think he's possibly scum. I'll come back with findings tomorrow sometime.

[dividizzle]

Can I

Request Replacement

. I'm really sorry guys, some things in life just got way busier than they were supposed to be so I want to let someone get in here while it's still not that many pages. Apologies for the inactivity.

[4nxi3ty]

If she was unsure who to vote first, why is she suspicious of people? If she's suspicious of people one would tend to presume she should vote them - but she chose not to. The question is, what is the motivation of that decision? My submission is that the motivation is that she's scum, and it's all fake, so it doesn't follow logic. What's your take?

Like I said earlier, I believe she was unsure of how to proceed. Also, it would've of been a very easy thing to place a vote at that point in the game. If whiskers were scum, I don't see why she would purposely avoid placing a vote when its kinda an expected thing to do.

Don't like this case one bit. The first two points were irrelevant as they were in RVS, and the third I simply don't agree with. I think he was looking for a wagon to join, and found a weak excuse. I don't like his reactions to Thor page three either.

scum can be uncomfortable in the beginning of the game, not used to how things are flowing, and make mistakes. Actions shouldn't be disregarded because of RVS.

Thor's case was intentionally poor. He's a better player than that as both alignments. It was a fairly blatant attempt to see who would sheep a faulty case.

Vote: Alduskkel

Liking this wagon. Post #38 (specifically the second half) is designed for some easy town-cred while not actually doing anything. The claimed concern with quickly getting out of RVS is at odds with all the other posting that has occurred from him, which has had no sense of urgency and no indication of scum-hunting.

This needs more sheeping

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Alduskkel

Whiskers is a decent wagon too though

don't like how he is following the crowd and flying under the radar here.

ProHawk, can you explain some town reads?

[Whiskers]

Liking 4nx so far, largely because of this:

Actions shouldn't be disregarded because of RVS.

[Human Destroyer]

don't like how he is following the crowd and flying under the radar here.

Actually, only Rob was voting him at the time I voted; sheeping one person's vote isn't really following the crowd.

[Rob14]

don't like how he is following the crowd and flying under the radar here.

Actually, only Rob was voting him at the time I voted; sheeping one person's vote isn't really following the crowd.

This is why I'm not a fan of 4nx at the moment. The RVS point that he made is not indicative of alignment because it's something that scum could easily insert in to help them look town.

[ProHawk]

Losta questions... okay. I won't have time to get a big post up until later tonight where I will post my preliminary reads that should cover most of the questions.

Thor, when you play games, you pick up things, you learn from mistakes, etc. If I played the same way every game based on my alignment it would make the game boring for me, and I wouldn't ever be improving. So yes, you will notice differences in my play from game to game. This is why meta cases are generally weak. People aren't static.

Rob, you won't find aggressive play from our NY game, I chose a different playstyle for it. If you are dead-set on doing meta-research, you can read my scum game and my aggressive town game.

I went after Whiskers because I saw scum-hesitance in her first few posts. She was hesitant to vote despite having people to vote, I find that scummy.

[Thor665]

@ProHawk - what prompted you to make such a dramatic shift in your meta?

[ProHawk]

What exactly was dramatic about it?

[Thor665]

I've already explained that.

[Thor665]

How about you even disagree it was dramatic and explain the shift anyway?

[ProHawk]

I have had my fair share of town v town arguments. I have found it to be unproductive and distracting to keep up a "fight" for lack of a better term. Are you trying to say you think I am scum for not continuing to press Whiskers because you have seen me be uncompromising at times? This situation is a bit different from what you saw from me in that this is the beginning of the day. When I tunneled on you, we were well into the end of the first day with thousands of posts to use as information for a read. Here, we had less than 100.

[Thor665]

Hurm...

[uctriton00]

Where are Thor's "townslips" as you call them?

It's me being retarded. That's twice now in 2 days I've failed to retype my sentences correctly by trying to update 3 games all at once.

[Human Destroyer]

So then what did you mean to type?

[Whiskers]

I sure hope Auspicious can make a post!

I saw him lurking around down there and it looks like a new page since he last posted.