Mini 1412: 0 Percent Flavor Mafia Finis

[Yates]

You've admitted you don't care if I'm town or not. But if you're scum you'd know I was town.

Are you saying I wouldn't make the same statement as scum? Because if that's the case, you should have never been voting me, right? There is no logic to your game, Monkey. None.

[Yates]

Side note:

you're tunneling me because

you don't want to admit you made a mistake.

This is how much trouble I have admitting I made a mistake:

You do realize he's the backup mod

Right

Well. I guess I just look silly now, don't I?

[MonkeyMan576]

There's a big difference between not knowing the backup mod and admitting the basis of your whole day 1 play is faulty.

[Yates]

There's a big difference between not knowing the backup mod and admitting the basis of your whole day 1 play is faulty.

There's NO difference between admitting when you made a mistake and admitting when you made a mistake. You claimed I was afraid to admit when I make mistakes. I showed that I'm not afraid to admit when I make mistakes. Qualifiers be damned, you are wrong.

Also, for the record, the LAST thing scum Yates would want to do is paint himself into a corner where he NEVER makes mistakes. How would I be able to explain away a mislynch? <- that is rhetorical.

[MonkeyMan576]

There's a big difference between not knowing the backup mod and admitting the basis of your whole day 1 play is faulty.

There's NO difference between admitting when you made a mistake and admitting when you made a mistake. You claimed I was afraid to admit when I make mistakes. I showed that I'm not afraid to admit when I make mistakes. Qualifiers be damned, you are wrong.

Also, for the record, the LAST thing scum Yates would want to do is paint himself into a corner where he NEVER makes mistakes. How would I be able to explain away a mislynch? <- that is rhetorical.

Uh, there is a big difference. You could say "I admitted I spelled 'its' with an apostrophe when there shouldn't be." and it's clearly different than admitting the premise of your whole day one play is based off a faulty premise. The fact that you won't even admit the difference in that shows that you are more concerned with saving face than helping the town.

[Yates]

Back to the game...

Monkey, do you stand behind this statement?

Thinking like everyone else doesn't make you town. In fact, mob thinking is pretty scummy. If the town expects to win, they need intellectual contributions from everyone.

[MonkeyMan576]

Mostly, I would expand on that and say that there's a difference between "mob thinking" and listening to others opinions.

[theaceofspades]

yates. the biggest point is your hyper tunnleing on an obv town. also post 499 is god-awful.

You accuse monkey of lying (ad hominem according to you. it's seems to be your favorite phrase) You assume he's lying when he admits a mistake...... And according to you everyone should admit their "simple mistakes" casuse being the saint that you are when you're head is so far in the sand that you don't even know who the back up mod is you admit it. Hurrah for you yates. But aparantly you are a nice human who makes human mistakes. But everybody else that makes a mistake is lying and using fake mistakes to hide their agenda.

your case that monkey was lying at the start is just awful. it's completely nay hilariously bad. Becasue think of this. IF moneky was town. And did make a mistake like that. How else could he possibly deal with it? "I mad a mistake guys" which is what he did. So if the consistent response for a scum monkey and a town monkey is identical it becomes WIFOM.

To everybody. I just had one of those instinct flashes. I'm thinking a yates and Matt scum-team. I don't know why but the thought popped into my head. Mostly his ability to always agree with yates and their "fights" seem very scripted. I'm not saying I think there's anything here. But I think there's something here

[Mehdi2277]

Current VC 1.8

Yates: theaceofspades, havingfitz, MonkeyMan576, The Acting Method [L-3]
MonkeyMan576: Yates, Alduskkel, ArcAngel9 [L-4]
Matt-ShadowLord: -L-, Human Destroyer [L-5]
-L-: qwints, The Central Scrutinizer [L-5]
Human Destroyer: Slandaar [L-6]


Not Voting: Matt-ShadowLord

With 13 alive it will take 7 votes to Lynch.
Deadline is on January, 26th. That is in (expired on 2013-01-26 19:11:00)

I personally count votes manually. If I ever make a mistake just tell me.

[theaceofspades]

Matt. Do you seriously have no suspect?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Bonus: I would jump in a volcano if I dropped this case and Monkey turned out to be scum later because I hate it when someone wins through sheer incompetence.

Confirmation bias status: confirmed.

[Human Destroyer]

Considering #447 exists, he clearly has suspects; why not vote them?

P-Edit: That's less of confirmation bias and more of a preemptive "I told you so!" from what I can tell

[Slandaar]

This is before he knows whats going on, so he clearly was talking about after game starts and so the story makes sense and the defence wins.

This is only true if you choose to believe Monkey is telling the truth about his "simple mistake."

I will admit that as a result of a crap ton of Monkey meta I did last night, I am starting to find it difficult to distinguish between terribad Town Monkey and scum Monkey.

So you honestly believe Monkey made some elaborate plan to fake thinking the day started? for what reason? (to appear town) how does it make him appear town? it really doesn't, but you are saying you think Monkey thinks it would so...

If I say day starts early I will look town because...

I honestly can't think of an ending to that sentence which Monkeyscum would need to think to pull off such a move.

But I assume you can Yates?

[Yates]

the biggest point is your hyper tunnleing on an obv town.

Why is Monkey obv Town? Convince me.

You accuse monkey of lying (ad hominem according to you. it's seems to be your favorite phrase)

Your reading comprehension is failing you. Go look up the meaning of the term ad hominem [thanks again, -L-]. Now go look at post 463 again. Pay special attention to the portion where I show that Monkey attacks *me* as a liar rather than the *argument* which should have been the point of his post.

This, on the other hand, is simple discrediting:

you're head is so far in the sand that you don't even know who the back up mod is

So there is a difference.

I would also like to point out that you are clearly wrong about this:

But everybody else that makes a mistake is lying and using fake mistakes to hide their agenda.

Because:

To the first part of 191. Yeah that was a mistake. I forgot that I was talking about you. I mixed you and HD up. Simple as that.

Okay...? So one of the main tenets of your argument against me was a mix up and "woopsie?" Has this caused you to reread that portion of the thread?

Which is something you have never answered, by the way.

In fact, you are voting me without a case other than accusing me of hyper tunneling - which we have already demonstrated is not alignment indicative - while I have quite clearly stated my case on the individual I am voting for. How about you post a clear and concise case on your lynch candidate?

[Yates]

So you honestly believe Monkey made some elaborate plan to fake thinking the day started? for what reason? (to appear town) how does it make him appear town? it really doesn't, but you are saying you think Monkey thinks it would so..

This has been clearly addressed. Here's a hint: why did I quote Tammy?

[Yates]

If I say day starts early I will look town because...

I honestly can't think of an ending to that sentence which Monkeyscum would need to think to pull off such a move.

But I assume you can Yates?

Negative. That's a straw man. This is what ACTUALLY happened:

^ WTF people....confirm already.

Perhaps that's the scum team.

Extending their QT chit chat?

NEXT PAGE

Day 1 Start

13 hours and 26 minutes [plus a monkey vote] later:

@havingfitz - Isn't scumchat usually limited to either all the time or night only? If day has started I don't know how they could be "extending their chat."

This looks like a fake Town slip. This looks like Monkey asking a question he answers for himself in an effort to pretend he doesn't know how the mod set up the QT for this game. AND...

Good scumhunting though giving me the answer to your question.

The result of my fake slip post netted us these responses:

That doesn't mean Yates is right, but it does mean it's something worth investigating.

@ Yates how unlikely is it that he'd be unaware of the scumchat timing rules?

Yates...you beat me to it. I was going to point the same thing out with regards to MonkeyMan's comments to me in Post 37. Only I also have the added insight of having played in a game with MonkeyMan that just ended last month in which he was scum and he had pregame chat. So.....

Vote: MonkeyMan

Zero percent chance.

So at this point, scum or Town, Monkey needs to be able to say this IMMEDIATELY:

Okay, I see the confusion. I had presumed that when fitz was talking, day had started. By the time I made my post, day actually had started. I thought you were only supposed to /confirm pre-day, so my bad for not realizing that fitz's post was pre-day.

For cripes sake, you pointed out exactly where his "error" was and he rambled on about something else that was completely incoherent [Hence the coaching allegation if Monkey flips scum].

I would also like to point out that while this is what initially lead me to Monkey, the rest of my case is detailed here: post 484. The slip is small potatoes compared to his overall play as illustrated in that case.

[MonkeyMan576]

If we all ignore Yates and don't respond to him will he go away?:P

[Yates]

If we all ignore Yates and don't respond to him will he go away?:P

I will go away once you present a case on somebody - ANYBODY - that is of your own creation AND that does not include text that points out anything said by others. In other words, commit to a case with arguments that YOU believe and are accountable to.

[-L-]

I've tried, nope.

I almost want to unvote Matt because his thoughts on Yates' case mirrored my own - and so now can we move on from Monkey for now? All of these pages dealt with him in some form or fashion.

Alduskkel - what is your opinion on the game thus far? What is your opinion of Slandaar?

[-L-]

Oo oo ! I know! Do me!

[-L-]

UNVOTE: matt-shadowlord

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm sorry, Yates, but you don't get to dictate how I build my cases. Using other people's ideas is perfectly legit. It's not like I haven't come up with things on my own as well. I've actually given reads on other players where every read you've given is based squarely on your misguided assumption of something that happened on the first page of the day.

[Yates]

If we all ignore Yates and don't respond to him will he go away?

I've tried, nope.

Seriously guys... I am a human person. With like... feelings and stuff. You are making me sad.

At his point I would settle for seeing ANY case on ANYBODY that isn't being driven by me.

[Yates]

every read you've given is based squarely on your misguided assumption of something that happened on the first page of the day.

Nope. Read 484. It's a real post.

[theaceofspades]

the biggest point is your hyper tunnleing on an obv town.

Why is Monkey obv Town? Convince me.

You accuse monkey of lying (ad hominem according to you. it's seems to be your favorite phrase)

Your reading comprehension is failing you. Go look up the meaning of the term ad hominem [thanks again, -L-]. Now go look at post 463 again. Pay special attention to the portion where I show that Monkey attacks *me* as a liar rather than the *argument* which should have been the point of his post.

This, on the other hand, is simple discrediting:

you're head is so far in the sand that you don't even know who the back up mod is

So there is a difference.

I would also like to point out that you are clearly wrong about this:

But everybody else that makes a mistake is lying and using fake mistakes to hide their agenda.

Because:

To the first part of 191. Yeah that was a mistake. I forgot that I was talking about you. I mixed you and HD up. Simple as that.

Okay...? So one of the main tenets of your argument against me was a mix up and "woopsie?" Has this caused you to reread that portion of the thread?

Which is something you have never answered, by the way.

In fact, you are voting me without a case other than accusing me of hyper tunneling - which we have already demonstrated is not alignment indicative - while I have quite clearly stated my case on the individual I am voting for. How about you post a clear and concise case on your lynch candidate?

monkey is town because there is literally no case against him, plus what he says has been consistent with a town motivated player, who has been attacked repeatedly and is freaking out about it.

Were did I say tunneling is not alignment indicative.

"i'm completely wrong because of this" what? you just made my point. Monkey makes a mistake. He must be scum. Ace makes a mistake, he must be stupid and nothing he says can be trusted (note, I realize you have never accused me of being scum. Which does net you a few town points, you still have a ways to go however) Yates makes a mistake, it's not a big deal just a little error.

Ad hominem is attacking the person not the argument. Calling you a turd. Saying your mama is fat. Saying you're ugly. Saying you are an old bag. All ad hominem. (and yes I know I suck at spelling) Calling someone a liar is not. BECAUSE, it attacks the CREDIBILITY of the argument.

If you lie. Saying you are a liar is not ad homonim. It is stating a fact, that you lied.
If you suggest that llamas are the best animals in the world based on extensive reading. and I say you're to stupid to know how to read. That's not ad hominem. If you are to stupid to know how to read then clearly you can't know something from reading it.

Same principle. you Misrepresented something (a lie) and got called a liar. No personal attacks here.

For a real example of ad hominem. There is a post were I call you a turd. That is ad homonim

To your last point. What do you want me to address? I don't see your point. Are you just wanting me to say if I have read that part of the thread again? Then yes. I've read the whole game twice. and 4 times from page 7. I stand by what I said. So what's your point?