Micro 102: Mainstream Mini-Mafia [END, CULT WIN]

[Human Destroyer]

Nope, no dice.

[Majiffy]

Chkflip you fucked up the vote counts again, you replaced the last votecount of d1 with some d2 vote count.

Your mother is a whore.

Fixed.

Jacob, why aren't you voting HD? Has something occurred since the end of D1 and now that you feel uncomfortable placing a vote there?

[JacobSavage]

Yes I realised he was my scum buddy. Turns out reading your Role PM is surprisingly useful...

The main reason is 1. I didn't want to vote and then risk somescum quickhammering 2. I'm doubting myself

[JacobSavage]

Wait damn it, sorry Mod

• Claiming to be scum with someone else will result in a modkill.

[pirate mollie]

plz explain to me how "sheeping" and "testing things out" equal a strong town read. cos I am confused.

My bad - you sheep null and scum reads then?
Okay - just tell me what your read on him is, and then explain why you're sheeping him. I'm clearly just being dumb.

also you are stacking up questions which you have yet to answer!

who on here is a pr hunter

do you not look at nks

how am I sidelining my vote

I am going to add to this do you have a strong town read on majiffy? what is your read on ft?

1. I don't know/care.
2. I do.
3. By constantly distancing yourself for it and doing nothing with it.
4. No.
5. Lurksack who I would like to have dead or replaced.

wow thor:



I am underwhelmed.

to the first question you asked: in this set up? yes, I think I will.

1. okay
2. so you looked at the nk and are going after hd? lol
3. "distancing" is not the same "not expanding on it at that time". again so why the haste?
4. so your reads so far are:

hd is scum
majiffy is null
ft is null but

you want him to die

I am town as you indicated earlier when you asked me as to why my town and scum games look alike. since I was scum in the previous game we played together I am assuming you have me as town.

reads on rach marie and voided plz.

also why did you just ignore the hell out of jacob's terrible reasoning on why he should be sheeping you.

also the bolded is what I call a kill tell.

@hd

are you feeling super frustrated right now? cos that is often how I feel when I find myself talking to no one but scum. the best thing you can do with your vote right now would be to place it on majiffy so that we have 2 solid competing bws. it will put voided and jacob in a position where they will have to choose between 2 centrifugal forces that are going on in this game. I recently learned this strategy from both majiffy and thor (and you booys think that I do not pay attention to you) for the style of this voting format. it is a way to optimize information that can be used for the next day round.

also you do realize that you told jacob that his reasoning lacked logic when he said that if thor said someone was scum and majiffy corroberates with thor's read, then that person must be scum and then later put thor as null based on his reputation, that that is a tad bit hypocritical? your reasoning is just as bad as jacob's and you might want to look at that.

you are also being super sticky with your reads by dragging what you said on d1 as if you somehow missed (or are deliberately ignoring) mine and thor's interactions. I would say I have contributed a good deal to this game. also I asked to start a dialogue between you and myself so why are you ignoring me but putting me in your scum pile?

@ voided

you are simply not going to even consider me town until I have 4 pages of filled with wots, are you

I think you both are letting recent game baggage colour your perspective on my alignment in this game so I am asking you both to take a step back and do some reevaluation. just try it. I am leaning town on you both but voided I might need more interaction.

@ jacob

wtf

@rach marie

is there a particular reason for the 180 on thor?

[Human Destroyer]

are you feeling super frustrated right now? cos that is often how I feel when I find myself talking to no one but scum. the best thing you can do with your vote right now would be to place it on majiffy so that we have 2 solid competing bws. it will put voided and jacob in a position where they will have to choose between 2 centrifugal forces that are going on in this game. I recently learned this strategy from both majiffy and thor (and you booys think that I do not pay attention to you) for the style of this voting format. it is a way to optimize information that can be used for the next day round.

Yes I'm frustrated. So I'm supposed to vote someone who, tbh, doesn't really strike me as scummy? How about no, I have plenty of scumreads to go around. This actually looks like setting up a town v. town to me.

also you do realize that you told jacob that his reasoning lacked logic when he said that if thor said someone was scum and majiffy corroberates with thor's read, then that person must be scum and then later put thor as null based on his reputation, that that is a tad bit hypocritical? your reasoning is just as bad as jacob's and you might want to look at that.

You're mixing up my posts. He's not null based on reputation; he's null because I can't read the guy. I said I'm biased towards asking him to stop tunneling because of reputation. Bias is (almost) never logical, so I never said it was. Also you forget that he didn't take into account that Thor could be wrong or scum, which is what I called him out on.

you are also being super sticky with your reads by dragging what you said on d1 as if you somehow missed (or are deliberately ignoring) mine and thor's interactions. I would say I have contributed a good deal to this game. also I asked to start a dialogue between you and myself so why are you ignoring me but putting me in your scum pile?

I'm not ignoring the interactions between you and Thor; you are honestly the one that comes out scummier from that, not him. Also if you asked to start a dialogue I missed it, point it out please.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mollie

I give in, I'm sheeping Voided. Everyone else should too.

[FourTrouble]

On my phone, don't have time to make case against majiffy but I promise I will tonight or tomorrow morning. Majiffy needs to today's lynch.

[pirate mollie]

are you feeling super frustrated right now? cos that is often how I feel when I find myself talking to no one but scum. the best thing you can do with your vote right now would be to place it on majiffy so that we have 2 solid competing bws. it will put voided and jacob in a position where they will have to choose between 2 centrifugal forces that are going on in this game. I recently learned this strategy from both majiffy and thor (and you booys think that I do not pay attention to you) for the style of this voting format. it is a way to optimize information that can be used for the next day round.

Yes I'm frustrated. So I'm supposed to vote someone who, tbh, doesn't really strike me as scummy? How about no, I have plenty of scumreads to go around. This actually looks like setting up a town v. town to me.

also you do realize that you told jacob that his reasoning lacked logic when he said that if thor said someone was scum and majiffy corroberates with thor's read, then that person must be scum and then later put thor as null based on his reputation, that that is a tad bit hypocritical? your reasoning is just as bad as jacob's and you might want to look at that.

You're mixing up my posts. He's not null based on reputation; he's null because I can't read the guy. I said I'm biased towards asking him to stop tunneling because of reputation. Bias is (almost) never logical, so I never said it was. Also you forget that he didn't take into account that Thor could be wrong or scum, which is what I called him out on.

you are also being super sticky with your reads by dragging what you said on d1 as if you somehow missed (or are deliberately ignoring) mine and thor's interactions. I would say I have contributed a good deal to this game. also I asked to start a dialogue between you and myself so why are you ignoring me but putting me in your scum pile?

I'm not ignoring the interactions between you and Thor; you are honestly the one that comes out scummier from that, not him. Also if you asked to start a dialogue I missed it, point it out please.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mollie

I give in, I'm sheeping Voided. Everyone else should too.

hd, plz do not take my post and insert your responses in them again. plz separate your responses out so that when people go back and reread your posts or mine there is a distinction that is very apparent to the reader. right now it looks like you are assigning things to me that I never said and I do not like that. it muddies up the game.

Yes I'm frustrated. So I'm supposed to vote someone who, tbh, doesn't really strike me as scummy? How about no, I have plenty of scumreads to go around. This actually looks like setting up a town v. town to me.

I am asking you to vote a null read so that there are 2 competing wagons. it is early enough in the day round that the bws can shift.

You're mixing up my posts. He's not null based on reputation; he's null because I can't read the guy. I said I'm biased towards asking him to stop tunneling because of reputation. Bias is (almost) never logical, so I never said it was. Also you forget that he didn't take into account that Thor could be wrong or scum, which is what I called him out on.

explain the bias

and yes I did take into account that thor could be wrong or scum (I actually think thor is scum at this point hence why I have been pointing out objective tells as he drops them. ftr, objective tells can sometimes be dropped by town but that is usually from sloppy players and I do not think thor is a sloppy player).

I'm not ignoring the interactions between you and Thor; you are honestly the one that comes out scummier from that, not him. Also if you asked to start a dialogue I missed it, point it out please.

okay so plz explain as to why I look scummier than thor? did you notice that thor has a town read on me? you copypasta-ed the reasons for your reads from d1 and a lot has happened since then but you are not reevaluating or coming up with new reasons. this is called "being sticky with your reads" and is often a scumtell, however I cannot tell if it is one for you yet. in the completed game we played together the feedback you received was to slow down (it was in response to the lylo situ but is applicable to midgame too) and to do some reassessment of what is going on around you and I am asking you to do it now. also highlighting yourself as vt before you are even at L1 makes you a possible recruit for a cult faction and that would be dumb if you are town. some gms will allow prs to be recruited but not always so cult tends to go for vt unless they have an idea that that pr roles are recruitable.

what I am asking you is if you think I am scum then what are your current reasons. plz be specific and explain the scum motivation behind them tia

if you are town then I am sincerely trying to reach out to you and help you. the number one reason that town loses games is cos town cannot find each other. it worries me that in this set-up that a very recent game in which I was scum and you and voided were town and you guys lost.

I am going to explain some things to you and I want you to plz plz plz listen to me.

just take a step back and listen to me

. look at the game design...who do you think would be most likely recruited and who do you think would most likely be a nk? hands down everyone agrees that thor and majiffy are both pretty strong players so would be the most likely choice for both a and b. I can tell you right now that as scum I would have killed majiffy and as cult I would have tried to recruit jacob, not majiffy cos majiffy and I throw off too many associative tells that would have raised thor's eyebrows. but other people might have made different choices.

I think the orc kill points to a strong player who is able to assess whether or not someone is a pr or not but it is possible scum nked him cos they thought he was the cult leader since those tells can come across as looking similar. or they just thought that orc was a strong player which is absurd given the set-up and the players who are playing. ffs, you are not thinking you are reacting and that is not in the best interests of town if you are town. if you are scum who thought you could pull one over on thor and majiffy then omg you have testicles the size of bowling balls. you don't come across that way, you are coming across as confused town. you expect thor to be picking up on that and I agree so you should be asking yourself why he isn't.

[RachMarie]

@ Mollie

Yes his response to my question . I gave him a chance to switch to one of his favorite lynch targets and he basically did a what the smurf as he would put it. He has continued to push the HD wagon, even though he could jump over to mine. That tells me he really thinks HD is scum and that I am probably not in his mind. However he is not defending me either. So putting that together seems more towny to me.

@ FT I don't see the scum read on Majiffy? Looking forward to your case on him.

[Human Destroyer]

Hngfff I want to lynch you so bad

Still responding to Mollie though so

[Human Destroyer]

hd, plz do not take my post and insert your responses in them again. plz separate your responses out so that when people go back and reread your posts or mine there is a distinction that is very apparent to the reader. right now it looks like you are assigning things to me that I never said and I do not like that. it muddies up the game.

Not a problem.

Yes I'm frustrated. So I'm supposed to vote someone who, tbh, doesn't really strike me as scummy? How about no, I have plenty of scumreads to go around. This actually looks like setting up a town v. town to me.

I am asking you to vote a null read so that there are 2 competing wagons. it is early enough in the day round that the bws can shift.

Did you miss the setting up a situation with 2 town wagons or did you just choose to ignore it?

You're mixing up my posts. He's not null based on reputation; he's null because I can't read the guy. I said I'm biased towards asking him to stop tunneling because of reputation. Bias is (almost) never logical, so I never said it was. Also you forget that he didn't take into account that Thor could be wrong or scum, which is what I called him out on.

explain the bias

Bias as in "I'm more likely to talk to this guy because he has a greater reputation than the other guy who I probably should be talking to."

and yes I did take into account that thor could be wrong or scum (I actually think thor is scum at this point hence why I have been pointing out objective tells as he drops them. ftr, objective tells can sometimes be dropped by town but that is usually from sloppy players and I do not think thor is a sloppy player).

I was saying Jacob didn't take these things into account, not you.

I'm not ignoring the interactions between you and Thor; you are honestly the one that comes out scummier from that, not him. Also if you asked to start a dialogue I missed it, point it out please.

okay so plz explain as to why I look scummier than thor?

did you notice that thor has a town read on me?

you copypasta-ed the reasons for your reads from d1 and a lot has happened since then but you are not reevaluating or coming up with new reasons. this is called "being sticky with your reads" and is often a scumtell, however I cannot tell if it is one for you yet. in the completed game we played together the feedback you received was to slow down (it was in response to the lylo situ but is applicable to midgame too) and to do some reassessment of what is going on around you and I am asking you to do it now. also highlighting yourself as vt before you are even at L1 makes you a possible recruit for a cult faction and that would be dumb if you are town. some gms will allow prs to be recruited but not always so cult tends to go for vt unless they have an idea that that pr roles are recruitable.

Uh, what @ the bolded. I could've sworn he said he had a scum read on you. I didn't copy paste my reads, especially considering most of them changed. Also I was and still am at L-1, so what are you talking about with that.

what I am asking you is if you think I am scum then what are your current reasons. plz be specific and explain the scum motivation behind them tia

-Switching votes without an explanation and acting as if you never even voted them.
-Lots and lots of fluff (Majiffy is guilty of this too)
-Townread sheeping.
-I just don't like your Thor interactions, they just aren't looking good to me.

if you are town then I am sincerely trying to reach out to you and help you. the number one reason that town loses games is cos town cannot find each other. it worries me that in this set-up that a very recent game in which I was scum and you and voided were town and you guys lost.

Oh blah this is an appeal to the side of me that wants to fix up my play. No, I'm not falling for it.

I am going to explain some things to you and I want you to plz plz plz listen to me.

just take a step back and listen to me

. look at the game design...who do you think would be most likely recruited and who do you think would most likely be a nk? hands down everyone agrees that thor and majiffy are both pretty strong players so would be the most likely choice for both a and b. I can tell you right now that as scum I would have killed majiffy and as cult I would have tried to recruit jacob, not majiffy cos majiffy and I throw off too many associative tells that would have raised thor's eyebrows. but other people might have made different choices.

Who said I wasn't listening to you? Although the cult point is interesting, it really ends up in a lot of WIFOM that I'm not interested in thinking about; "Thor is a good recruit because he's a strong player. But wait, everyone will think he's cult because of that! So I'll recruit someone else. But maybe they're thinking I'll think of this...", etc. etc.

I think the orc kill points to a strong player who is able to assess whether or not someone is a pr or not but it is possible scum nked him cos they thought he was the cult leader since those tells can come across as looking similar. or they just thought that orc was a strong player which is absurd given the set-up and the players who are playing. ffs, you are not thinking you are reacting and that is not in the best interests of town if you are town. if you are scum who thought you could pull one over on thor and majiffy then

omg you have testicles the size of bowling balls.

you don't come across that way, you are coming across as confused town. you expect thor to be picking up on that and I agree so you should be asking yourself why he isn't.

Bolded gave me a chuckle, especially taken out of conte- I MEAN UH

I wouldn't say orc was playing strongly this game. He was kind of lurky, and if anything seemed like a weird kill.

Maybe Thor isn't picking up on that because he actually is town and doesn't have everyone's alignment on a silver platter? That's certainly a thought.

[Human Destroyer]

Hey FourTrouble I see you're online

This is the part where you sheep me

[Human Destroyer]

Also ugh did I actually just get myself into a quote war

I hate those

I really do

[Human Destroyer]

(Mollie, if you respond, don't expect me to respond back until after school tomorrow)

[pirate mollie]

Did you miss the setting up a situation with 2 town wagons or did you just choose to ignore it?

if this were a larger game with more players or a different set up then you

might

be able to push this idea. but in what started out as a 9 player game with 2 possible factions I highly doubt that!

Bias as in "I'm more likely to talk to this guy because he has a greater reputation than the other guy who I probably should be talking to."

okay. so what you are saying is that you are more likely to talk to thor than some other person whom you should probably be talking to and this somehow relates to thor's tunneling on you and his reputation. tunneling is a town tell btw, scum just try to get town lynched. I prefer the term trolleytracking myself cos that explains what actually happens when you are so focused on the puck you get blindsighted by the opposing team. but anyways I

think

I see where you are coming from although that would put thor into your town pile not your null one cos you are assigning town motivation behind what he was doing.

I was saying Jacob didn't take these things into account, not you.

okay

Uh, what @ the bolded. I could've sworn he said he had a scum read on you. I didn't copy paste my reads, especially considering most of them changed. Also I was and still am at L-1, so what are you talking about with that.

and this makes me wonder if you are even keeping up with the game cos I addressed it with thor. and I addressed it in what I said to you. thor asked me why my town game looked like my scum game. we have played 1 game together where I was scum and he was town. so he is implying that he thinks I am town in this game. if you would iso my posts you would see where I pointed this out.

-Switching votes without an explanation and acting as if you never even voted them.
-Lots and lots of fluff (Majiffy is guilty of this too)
-Townread sheeping.
-I just don't like your Thor interactions, they just aren't looking good to me.

-do you know what a pressure vote is. it is pretty silly to vote someone and state that it is a pressure vote cos it pretty much negates the point of a pressure vote. or a vote to see what happens. the 2 may not necessarily be mutually exclusive except with regards to the motivation behind it in that a pressure vote can be applied to one specific person while a random vote may be to fishing to see what other people do with it. I am actually doing both right now, just to be clear.
-not really. this just tells me you have not iso-ed my posts and might not have any idea wtf you are looking at. your subsequent responses tells me you are unwilling to learn.
-I am sheeping a null possible town read in a recruitment game. this is not fucking rocket science.
-yabbut you have to state

why

. I never said that majiffy looked scummy I am sheeping ft (and he better deliver) cos of game design.

I am serious, if this is a scum team with a nk and a recruit I will meltdown only because we were warned that there was a cult and that is not the same thing. I have been in several games with a recruit mechanic and I have played a game with a cult where he had no idea that there was one in play and have used one in a game I gmed.

Oh blah this is an appeal to the side of me that wants to fix up my play. No, I'm not falling for it.

okay if you really are town be prepared for some blistering feedback postgame.

Who said I wasn't listening to you? Although the cult point is interesting, it really ends up in a lot of WIFOM that I'm not interested in thinking about; "Thor is a good recruit because he's a strong player. But wait, everyone will think he's cult because of that! So I'll recruit someone else. But maybe they're thinking I'll think of this...", etc. etc.

thor is a poor choice for a recruit cos he is right he has to deal with the "why is thor still alive on d3" meta which I understand cos I have had to deal with that too (at ratskep).

Bolded gave me a chuckle, especially taken out of conte- I MEAN UH

I wouldn't say orc was playing strongly this game. He was kind of lurky, and if anything seemed like a weird kill.

okay so let's look at that. why do you think I was asking the more experienced players who was a good pr hunter on here? the nk was a special so no, not that weird. plus scum could have thought he looked cultish. a cult, scum, and a pr will look the same to town cos each will unconsciously present more knowledge of what is going on in the game than vt.

Maybe Thor isn't picking up on that because he actually is town and doesn't have everyone's alignment on a silver platter? That's certainly a thought.

or he does cos he has inside knowledge of other players alignments cos of an anti-town role. just a thought.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

stepping away from hd for a minute and looking at what is going on around me. I can see where rach marie is coming from with her 180 on thor, that would make sense if it was just a scum/town thing without a third party faction. I am leaning as very unsure about her.

voided is being sticky with his push for my lynch without giving a good reason however I liked him putting hd in his town pile. hhhmmm. I need to hear more from ft.

also jacob if you could do something that might actually help town then that would be great. I don't know if chick is going to modkill you or not.

ft, it is time to dish

[Voidedmafia]

No, HD, I'm not going to sheep you onto Rach.

you are simply not going to even consider me town until I have 4 pages of filled with wots, are you

First off, I have no idea what "wots" means.

Secondly, it's not my fault your responses to Thor are scummy <_<.

I think you both are letting recent game baggage colour your perspective on my alignment in this game so I am asking you both to take a step back and do some reevaluation. just try it. I am leaning town on you both but voided I might need more interaction.

You're really hitting some of the things that I have peeves about and think are scummy--like voting without explanations--and as I've stated I don't like your responses to Thor at all.

I give in, I'm sheeping Voided. Everyone else should too.

Wait, what?

hd, plz do not take my post and insert your responses in them again. plz separate your responses out so that when people go back and reread your posts or mine there is a distinction that is very apparent to the reader.

THIS SO VERY FUCKING MUCH!

Please please PLEASE do this next time, HD.

I wouldn't say orc was playing strongly this game. He was kind of lurky, and if anything seemed like a weird kill.

Scum like weird kills because it throws town for a loop.

To be honest, it feels like a kill Thor would make/advocate. (I'd think he'd go for me/Majiffy over orci, to be honest, but eh, who knows what's going on in that beard of his.)

if this were a larger game with more players or a different set up then you might be able to push this idea. but in what started out as a 9 player game with 2 possible factions I highly doubt that!

Running up two townies as competing wagons has happened in Newbies before, as has running up both scum. This isn't a newbie, but it isn't farfetched.

voided is being sticky with his push for my lynch without giving a good reason however I liked him putting hd in his town pile. hhhmmm. I need to hear more from ft

I don't remember having him as town?

[Majiffy]

The main reason is 1. I didn't want to vote and then risk somescum quickhammering 2. I'm doubting myself

1) How many times have we talked about how dumb this irrational "scum is gunna quickhammer hurr hurr" fear is in the early game? I feel like I go over it far too often lately.
2) Stop doubting yourself. Wagon stalled on him yesterday until no-lynch. Wagon is stalling on him again. It's obviously not a town wagon. Put your vote down.

Also somewhere in that giant wall of shit between HD and Molle, HD said something along the lines of "town v town" wagons with such certainty it

leads me to believe he knows my alignment

. So there's something to keep in mind.

FT I look forward to your surely gloriously, magnificently... poor case.

[pirate mollie]

First off, I have no idea what "wots" means.

w

alls

o

f

t

ext

s

Secondly, it's not my fault your responses to Thor are scummy <_<.

okay so you think they are scummy. why. I am asking the same thing of hd and you both are just saying, "they look scummy". which is shit reasoning and you well know it. if you are not going to back up what you are saying with solid reasoning then you are no better than the people you bitch about who do not give reasons at all, although I can think of town motivation for not always giving a reason just not one for "oh they just look scummy" unless it is coming from lazy/sloppy town which you are not.

also this:

Hey anyone want to lynch Voided and see what he flips?

Yknow what's almost worse than people voting without explaining?

People clamoring for lynches of people they don't have any substantial reasons to want lynched

.

pick out the specifics as to

why

you think I am scummy tia

You're really hitting some of the things that I have peeves about and think are scummy--like voting without explanations--and as I've stated I don't like your responses to Thor at all.

we have different playstyles and different approaches to game strategy and you well know this. what responses to thor do you not like? where is the scum motivation in them? you are going to have to spell it out for me cos I really don't see it.

Scum like weird kills because it throws town for a loop.

To be honest, it feels like a kill Thor would make/advocate. (I'd think he'd go for me/Majiffy over orci, to be honest, but eh, who knows what's going on in that beard of his.)

n1 kill should be either someone whom you think might be a pr (which is why I am asking who is a good pr hunter on here) or someone most likely to organise a town cabal. orc rules out the latter IMO so I am going with the former except I think that scum thought orc might also be a possible cult leader so there is that.

Running up two townies as competing wagons has happened in Newbies before, as has running up both scum. This isn't a newbie, but it isn't farfetched.

okay. talk to majiffy about this

I don't remember having him as town?

okay. then what did you mean by this:

807 actually feels kinda townish to me. The nonchalance of the claim just doesn't ring to me as scummy.

cos I am confused. it looks like you were calling him town at that point.

[Majiffy]

Mollie's a firm town read after her last couple posts. I'm willing to advocate very strongly against her lynch.

What kind of input are you expecting me to give re: competing wagons, Mollie?

[pirate mollie]

eta: majiffy, our exchanges are not walls of shit I am trying to engage with hd to discern his alignment. I have honestly seen him act like this as town but that could be a playstyle thing; he is confused regardless of alignment.

am I the only one doing the math here? possible set-up scenarios with 8 players remaining and no lynch info are either town lynches scum/cult today or we face a possible 6 player scenario tomorrow with there being an even split amongst town/scum/cult or 1 town/2 scum/3 cult or a hopeful possibility of 3 town/2 scum/1 cult.

eta: I would rather you address voided's point cos he was the making it about how it could possibly be 2 bws. I have only recently come to your way of reasoning (cos I understand why it works for this site) about how it is rare that there are 2 competing wagons on 2 towns. I don't fully grasp the logistics of it so I figured you would be better at explaining than I would.

also if ft comes back on here and actively lurks 1 more time I will be out for blood cos there are only 3 reasons as to why he would walk into a thread and say, "majiffy is scum, lynch him". I am cutting him some slack until he posts but I am not down with the active lurking while this is going on. not at all.

[pirate mollie]

*2 town bws

[Majiffy]

It does happen that you get two competing town wagons, but typically that happens in larger games. I haven't seen competing town wagons in smaller games. Add to the fact that the leading wagon yesterday literally stalled, which signifies that

someone

was afraid to jump on, more likely scum that doesn't want to bus than town afraid of a scum wagon.

In regards to your math - and I typically don't extend into out-guess-the-mod or setup spec because a) it's usually wrong, and b) it's usually wrong - we're definitely going to see more cult than scum just by nature of cult has the ability to grow its numbers. So if I run in my head maybe a setup-start of 7 town 1 scum 1 cult, d2 assuming a mislynch had been had would be (worst case) 4 town 1 scum 2 cult - one town lynch, one town death, one town cult. That's a pretty shitty position to be in, but not unwinnable. 2 scum in that worst-case scenario would make it 3 town 2 scum 2 cult, in which case the town is already fucked going into d2. So more likely starting off 1 scum 1 cult, which currently puts us at 5 town 1 scum 2 cult worse-case.

Also I suddenly have the worst headache in the world and I reckon it was because you made me do math.

[Majiffy]

Long story short with the wagons, I'd put money on at least one scum being HD/Mollie, and given the town-tells I've been picking up from you, I'm damn near certain HD is scum.

[JacobSavage]

VOTE: HD

Fine have my vote Majiffy... seriously Mollie is town I don't think anyone can argue with that.

[Majiffy]

Like pulling teeth sometimes, I swear.