Mini 1412: 0 Percent Flavor Mafia Finis

[-L-]

Hi yates, nice to have you on my team!

I'm not on your team yet. As much as I'm accused of tunneling, you guys seem to be overlooking the fact that I have been critical of any evidence that seems nonsensical.

Also, I know why I pointed to that particular game. I find it highly unlikely many people actually looked at the meta. Also, pointing out your scum meta is meaningless without a town baseline.

That said, I have some problems with your TCS case:

1. In your first point regarding TCS's "apology," it seems pretty clearly to have been a response to the Fitz post that started my Monkey wagon.

Spoiler:

Matt-Shadowlord
The Central Scrutinizer
theaceofspades

^ WTF people....confirm already.

2. I believe he explained his RVS theory in post 413.

3.

So I view TCS' disagreement with Slandaar's sense as a defense of Monkey.

You know disagreeing with someone doesn't make them scum, right?

4.

Says this of Yates.

Actually, his 330 was in reference to Slandaar's case on HD - not me.

5.

After all - he was following someone else's idea.

Yeah. This is one of the main problems I have been having with Monkey. I don't like when people say "what he said." It allows for distancing. It doesn't make him scum but that ype of posting is scummy. This is really your only legit point in that post, ftr.

Serious question: did you decide TCS was scum THEN write this?

Your points are valid; thanks for the feedback. And, I did not see that "post already!" post.

As for the following points, regarding my incorrect designation of the source of arguments - my bad. That's what reading in isolation and then hopping to where the isopost sourced from.

And yes, I honestly had no opinion of TCS before writing this. I just went from post to post with my thoughts.

[Mehdi2277]

Current VC 1.10

Yates: theaceofspades, havingfitz, The Acting Method [L-4]
MonkeyMan576: Yates, Alduskkel, ArcAngel9 [L-4]
-L-: qwints, The Central Scrutinizer, MonkeyMan576[L-4]
Matt-ShadowLord: Human Destroyer [L-6]
Human Destroyer: Slandaar [L-6]

Not Voting: Matt-ShadowLord, -L-

With 13 alive it will take 7 votes to Lynch.
Deadline is on January, 26th. That is in (expired on 2013-01-26 19:11:00)

[Matt-Shadowlord]

Starting on the L show:

This post was 24 hours after the mod announced the game.

In post 24, The Central Scrutinizer wrote:I apologize for the delay; I had a lot of chores to take care of today.

+1 minute

So, my question is - don't mafia games typically take 2 days to start? They have in my experience. I thought that this apology was unneccesary. And - in my experience, scum tend to apologize or excuse themselves. And was the chores explanation even neccessary? Seems a bit put upon - and excuse makers always trip my scumdar. Always.

I disagree with this one. I agree with L that little apologies are frequently scum tells (I couldnt vote because I was out late, I didn't post because my dog ate my keyboard etc), but in this case an explaination had practically been demanded in some of the earlier posts:

Matt-Shadowlord
The Central Scrutinizer
theaceofspades
^ WTF people....confirm already.

Perhaps that's the scum team.

Therefor I judge the motive behind his post to be answering those posts, rather than a scummy apology.

In post 42, The Central Scrutinizer wrote:I kind of like the aceofspades wagon as long as he's inactive. So for now, VOTE: theaceofspades
+15 hours
Oh...where should place my RVS vote? Hmmm - oh! This guy - aceofspades! As long as he isn't around, I'll be the second person on his wagon. I'm mentioning that he's not around cos when he comes back, I'll be a gentleman and remove my vote. Don't want to make him uncomfortable, you know?

I agree, an RVS needs no explanation, and it was too early not to be an RVS. The justification could be inviting other people to join (scummy), or alternatively just trying to prod people into activity (null). So, slightly suspicious rather than suspicious IMHO.

In post 44, The Central Scrutinizer wrote:There's everything to like about lynching people who don't contribute. Active town is good town, inactive town is bad town.
+7 minutes
You say this - but the game only started hours ago. This smacks of scum trying to say mafia truisms to sound town. Scum will do this - which is why one must analyze why a person spoke the truism. When truisms are spoken to explain votes - it is scummy. When truisms are spoken to set a townie straight, it can be townie or a seasoned scum player.

I also prefer to vote against less active people though, so can't cast the first stone However I agree about the truisms, especially when tacked on. Slightly suspicious.

[-L-]

And you don't have to trust me, Yates, as being on your team.

It just means I trust YOU, and whatever you post.

[qwints]

UNVOTE: -L-
VOTE: Matt-Shadowlord

[theaceofspades]

P-Edit TCS makes some good points here. He might have just saved your ass Yates. But I'd like him to comment on the fact that he says it would be bad to lynch yates even if he is scum becasue it would tell us nothing. Am I missing something? Lynching scum is always a good thing, yes?

I almost talked myself into a Monkey lynch earlier today simply because it would force Yates to shift his gaze to other targets, but that just wasn't a good enough reason for me to lynch Monkey unless we were having real trouble reaching a majority on a better lynch.

Your explanation makes sense. and I agree with the above monkey comment.

I guess it's too much to hope for that the scum will night kill one of their own tonight. That would be most helpful to me.

[-L-]

The post by -L- against Central is a very interesting piece of investigation.

It has one thing against it - The fact it was after TCS put L at the top of a lynch list because 'This is my suspect because they are the most suspicious' is a lot more convincing than 'This is my suspect because they just accused me', but that doesn't change the fact she has compiled a hefty list of examples.

I simply dont have time to check them all now, but will do the first couple and can someone pitch in on assessing the rest please?

I never said he was my suspect, so before you build a case on me building an omgus case on TCS, stop.

I was posting my thoughts on TCS since he was the one building a case on me.

[Matt-Shadowlord]

The post by -L- against Central is a very interesting piece of investigation.
It has one thing against it - The fact it was after TCS put L at the top of a lynch list because 'This is my suspect because they are the most suspicious' is a lot more convincing than 'This is my suspect because they just accused me', but that doesn't change the fact she has compiled a hefty list of examples.
I simply dont have time to check them all now, but will do the first couple and can someone pitch in on assessing the rest please?

I never said he was my suspect, so before you build a case on me building an omgus case on TCS, stop.
I was posting my thoughts on TCS since he was the one building a case on me.

I've no intention of saying it was an OMGUS. I do think that any time someone makes a case against someone who has already accused them it has to be factored in as potentially adding a little extra reason for suspicion.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

-L-,

I have to admit I love detailed analysis and yours makes me happy. But I have to point out a few scummy things you are doing right now:

1) You didn't really hunt your best until I posed you as a serious alternative to the major wagons of the game day. Then you walled.
2) With this large post you seem to have consciously deviated from the behavior you had been displaying thus far. Perhaps this is in response to Yates and I observing that you seemed to be conforming to your scum meta as suggested by previous games.
3) You are omgusing without omgusing. You are directing suspicion towards me without voting for me. If I'm so far up your scum meter, why not vote for me? Are you that self-conscious of being accused of omgus voting? Are you waiting for other people to vote first so that you can seem less responsible should I somehow end up being lynched?

So, Central Scrutinizer - a few questions.

1. What information would have Slandaar's lynch given the town? What thoughts were in your mind at the time?

With regards to information to be gained from a Slandaar lynch, I was looking primarily to Slandaar's buddying of Monkeyman, his multiple town reads, and his posts towards you and HD. I think that should Slandaar come up scum in such a situation, Monkey is basically confirmed town, fitz and ace are probably town, and we are forced to look at Ald/Yates/HD with greater scrutiny.

I must admit one of my reasons to see him lynched were selfish... I would get a sense of whether our reads are different because my attention is misplaced or because he is scum trying to throw out smoke bombs.

In the end - I suspect a TCS/Monkey team.

This doesn't incline me to change my vote, and indeed confirms that it shall remain. Pointing to your accuser and a popular target of the day's animosity looks scummy as all hell to me. You're trying to associate me with someone who has had a substantial wagon on them in an attempt to dirty me. I don't see what this is necessary if I'm so obviously scummy already.

As I have already said, I am not certain that Monkey is town. In fact he looks a little scummy. But I do not think that there is enough to go on and I believe that the Monkey/Yates brouhaha is being used by some of the actual scum in this game as an opportunity to skate by and post mostly reactionary material without having to fake scumhunting.

And you don't have to trust me, Yates, as being on your team.

It just means I trust YOU, and whatever you post.

Buddying much?

---

With regard to several of your observations about me switching votes: I don't like stagnation in the game, and I don't like not voting for someone at any given period of time. I re-read and re-evaluate every time I find that the game has jumped ahead of me by several pages. I think if you re-examine the timing of my posts you will find that to be the case.

And I apologize a lot. It is a(n arguable) failing of my character and not a tell either way. I was born to apologize. Sorry.

[havingfitz]

Prod dodge. I'll try to get some posts in today.

[Slandaar]

If someone had completely different reads to me and they were lynched and flipped town, I would not assume my reads were misplaced, I might think about things a little, but it honestly wouldn't change much as they could have been the ones with misplaced reads (or both); being town doesn't mean being right (and I am confident in my reads so I definitely would go with what I think but...)

TCS however would think his reads are wrong because lynched persons were different.

Doesn't seem town to me.

[Slandaar]

@Ace: why do you think I am scum exactly?

[Slandaar]

You forgot the part where Slandaar stretched the case to fit the player

Could you explain what you mean by this now; I had been saving this little gem.

[Slandaar]

Monkey you didn't read L's meta did you?

Why then are you voting based on meta?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

If someone had completely different reads to me and they were lynched and flipped town, I would not assume my reads were misplaced, I might think about things a little, but it honestly wouldn't change much as they could have been the ones with misplaced reads (or both); being town doesn't mean being right (and I am confident in my reads so I definitely would go with what I think but...)

TCS however would think his reads are wrong because lynched persons were different.

Doesn't seem town to me.

Ok... tell me what's scummy about that.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yes I read L's meta. I already said that.

[Slandaar]

OK

I am lynched I am town. My reads are x/y/z are scum

so, then you will say 'my reads are misplaced! lets lynch x/y/z'

Clearly Fake.

[Slandaar]

Whats the difference then Monkey? and why are you hardcore lurking?

[Yates]

Yes I read L's meta. I already said that.

Cool. Can you quote some stuff from this game and that game to show us how she is playing to her scum meta then quote from a Town game to show how she isn't like that?

Thanks, bro. You are the best.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

OK

I am lynched I am town. My reads are x/y/z are scum

so, then you will say 'my reads are misplaced! lets lynch x/y/z'

Clearly Fake.

No... I will have

more doubt

that I am correct about mine if you're not scum, because I honestly don't see how a townie that is attentively reading the game and trying to make decisions that are in the best interest of the town could possibly come to the conclusion that "fairly sure fitz is town" (post 281) or "Yates is guaranteed scum" (282)

Fairly sure Fitz is town also fwiw.

I will go on record as stating that I will be relying on everyone else for a Slandaar read because he always reads as scum to me even when Town.

This Guy is Scum Guaranteed.

Unless I'm missing something big. So if I'm wrong about you, maybe I'm wrong about other things. I won't automatically think you were right all along just because you were a scummy enough townie to get lynched. That's dumb, and it's not what I said.

You don't modify your opinions in light of new evidence?

---

I think that several of us are falling victim to this idea that if someone doesn't play town the same way as me, that's scummy behavior. That's bullshit. What we are looking for is people not helping and skating by, people being distracting, and people acting like they're hunting but following some other agenda. Not people who have different opinions or have different methods of reaching decisions than we. This is why I'm not voting for you right now, Slandaar.

Am I making any sense at all? Either way I'm probably done with this tangent.

[MonkeyMan576]

Whats the difference then Monkey? and why are you hardcore lurking?

I'm not lurking, I was hyperactive the first half of the day, I'm letting some other people get their opinions in.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yes I read L's meta. I already said that.

Cool. Can you quote some stuff from this game and that game to show us how she is playing to her scum meta then quote from a Town game to show how she isn't like that?

Thanks, bro. You are the best.

I will, after I go see The Hobbit tonight with my wife.

[Alduskkel]

Prod dodge. I'll try to get some posts in today.

[Slandaar]

I must admit one of my reasons to see him lynched were selfish... I would get a sense of whether our reads are different

because my attention is misplaced

or because he is scum trying to throw out smoke bombs.

No... I will have

more doubt

that I am correct about mine if you're not scum, because I honestly don't see how a townie that is attentively reading the game and trying to make decisions that are in the best interest of the town could possibly come to the conclusion that "fairly sure fitz is town" (post 281) or "Yates is guaranteed scum" (282)

Let me try to explain it a different way;
Maybe my attention is completely misplaced? why is it this doesn't even cross your mind? (bolded top quote)
You are in effect saying your reads are not right and mine are right.

Clearly there is something wrong with that.

[ArcAngel9]

I know i have been bad at posting, But i have got now 15 pages to catch up...
Will catch up that!!!!