Android: Netrunner: The Living Card Game

mykonian · Post Post #6 (isolation #0) » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:00 am

I'm interested.

mykonian · Post Post #9 (isolation #1) » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:34 am

uhm, hito. Does your corp deck have enough agenda points?

mykonian · Post Post #12 (isolation #2) » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:44 am

hmm, clever. Thanks.

mykonian · Post Post #15 (isolation #3) » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:08 pm

oh, shoot. I did the same as Sudo, I think. I was trying to memorize the cards.

mykonian · Post Post #18 (isolation #4) » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:28 pm

I'd have a deck for either side now, so if someone wants to try this sometime, I'd be available.

mykonian · Post Post #21 (isolation #5) » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:52 am

I don't know. I need to figure out how it actually works when playing, but so far I have more corp decks then the sole runner deck I made.

mykonian · Post Post #25 (isolation #6) » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:02 am

I thought that was a decent matchup from the start? NBN is the company most capable of rushing agenda's, while as I read your post shapers have to set up for some time. Link strenght isn't all, right?

mykonian · Post Post #30 (isolation #7) » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:25 am

In post 27, Sudo_Nym wrote:I would say that it's arguable that NBN has the best ICE already- most NBN Ice does stuff, even if the Runner breaks all the subroutines. Though using some Wayland Ice to make a Shipment from Kaguya splash better could be a neat addition to Fast Advance.

the problem nbn has mostly is that a runner could run through their ice, take a couple of things from it, and do nothing about it. Psychographics is the only reason he doesn't want multiple tags and closed accounts/ resources the only reason he doesn't want a tag. Only tollbooth and matrix analyser (somewhat) are important as ICE if you try to race NBN.

mykonian · Post Post #32 (isolation #8) » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:10 am

what is the choice between pad campaign and melange mining corp?

mykonian · Post Post #34 (isolation #9) » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:34 am

Then I have a problem. Thought about 3 corp decks and only one got melange. What am I missing?

mykonian · Post Post #37 (isolation #10) » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:46 am

so the tempo loss of a turn is worth the 7 creds easily. I think that's my problem, that I overvalue the 3 ticks it costs to use. Ok. Back to the decks.

mykonian · Post Post #40 (isolation #11) » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:45 am

played a couple of games with my brother now, mostly to learn it. It's great fun.

Thank you for making this thread Hito

mykonian · Post Post #45 (isolation #12) » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:01 am

In post 42, hitogoroshi wrote:Yeah there are some good new resources, and more importantly, installing the game is 100% easier than it used to be and I don't need to give out the starter kit any more

give me a bit and I'll make the thread shiny and new

Indeed, you can install netrunner from within the octgn client now, it updates stuff for you, gets the sets. You can start right away with building decks and playing people.
There might have been someone on reddit who automated the replacement of the spoiled cards with unspoiled ones from a public database.

In post 43, TheButtonmen wrote:The group I play magic with has acquired the base game, What Lies Ahead, Tace Amount and Humanity's Shadow. So if people do start playing this online again post your contact info in this thread because at the very least I'd be interested playing and might know some other people to recruit as well.

There's some kind of online league going, and although I haven't played enough to get a honest result yet (pretty sure it's not going to stay just a 1-3 record, seen the way I got beaten), hito has 12 results and is on a very respectable 20th place out of over hundred participants.

mykonian · Post Post #50 (isolation #13) » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:11 pm

inside job is expensive, influence wise, and one can play around it "fairly easily". The first one is going to hit hard, yes, because people don't do it anymore, using inside jobs with other runners, but after the first one corps are going to adapt.

mykonian · Post Post #52 (isolation #14) » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:06 am

yes. Made possible by some awesome people and the maker of this game who is ok with it happening.

mykonian · Post Post #57 (isolation #15) » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:39 pm

is perhaps "the same old thing" a consideration? Those Deja Vu's seem to be there to retrieve events, and they are a bit costly, both in use and in influence. The same old thing costs one click more to use, 2 creds less. It might free up 4 influence to do fun stuff with? Like, test run, for example. Test run combo's a bit with femme, you get your femme for one turn.

mykonian · Post Post #58 (isolation #16) » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:39 pm

I hope that the above worked... as I already said in scumchat, I don't play gabe myself, but saw many of them running the same old thing. Test run - femme is one of the older synergies.

The deck I do run with is this:

Spoiler: Kate

I don't know it's good, it is just cool to play. I didn't make it myself, faced this deck a little while ago and my opponent completely wrecked me. I decided to copy and see if I could do the same with it. There have been some minor changes since then, but my opponent was a better deck builder then I am, a lot of it simply works better then the alternatives. It's way cool to have stuff set up, late in the game, seeing that daunting 3 ice stack on R&D that's all unrezzed, and index it, leaving no ice behind you as every bit of it gets destroyed. So sometimes it wins in dominating fashion, and sometimes it just fizzles because the money or the cards aren't there to trash all ICE. And half the losses have been there because I simply misplayed :/

mykonian · Post Post #61 (isolation #17) » Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:54 am

I can second that. Midseason replacements is/was quite a gamechanger. Psycho-beal is optional after that. It's quite a great tool for NBN to once and for all make the runner capitulate to being tagged.

mykonian · Post Post #64 (isolation #18) » Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:28 am

he's banned, it's rather a wasted effort to troll him, I fear.

mykonian · Post Post #71 (isolation #19) » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:29 am

someone played against jinteki a couple of times

mykonian · Post Post #72 (isolation #20) » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:37 pm

Just had a Katman player more or less ragequit against me, which was a lovely refreshing change of how things go, so I decided to tell you about the deck that did that.

Spoiler: jinteki rp

This is far from a finished deck, there are some things I'm not terribly happy with, but the concept is fun (to me). There are a ton of economic assets, which together with RP have the intention of keeping you richer then the runner, which is rare (and unnecessary) in Jinteki generally. The ice is all dirt cheap and mainly focussed on the early game with draco and sensei the only good options lategame. If the runner is smart (they aren't) and leaves all that economy up, it's there for ash. Ash is the key card of this deck more or less. Sooner or later, jinteki isn't going to stop any runner anymore. Their ice is hard to use, but very efficient if the runner opts to break. And then the runner gets to play with ash and red herrings. Because of RP and jintekis ice makeup, or at least that's the plan, they have less money then you do. And it's fun to see them run your barely defended remote only to find out they don't get to steal your agenda that they know is there, simply because they don't have the money.

It works... less well against runners that can keep up with your tempo. When it comes down to it you want the runner rushed at most points of the game, as making them run on your remotes is good for RP. Criminals do not mind so much and those matchups have been hard. Account syphon wrecks more then usual. The one cred denial wizzard (account syphon/vamp) was doable as he took too long to set up with actual breakers and he couldn't keep me poor enough not to rez some ice.

I'm not sold on the agenda make-up. I don't think I like midori here, chum was a fancy piece of paper a couple of times, so I'm not sure it should be staying. I don't know what to replace it with though. There's been times that I wished I found draco. IDK, if anyone has idea's, I'm open to them. But the core of the deck seems to be working against unsuspecting runners

mykonian · Post Post #76 (isolation #21) » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:46 pm

In post 73, hitogoroshi wrote:man if you're gonna run Herrings run Fetal AI too. AI + Herrings is the funniest goddamn thing.

good point, I'll give that a go soonish.

Stimhack is also more or less a lategame card, though I don't know how much it does for you in an atman deck. The idea is that you don't spend a lot of money on the actual breaking there. If you are thinking about economy, isn't cyberfeeder as hito mentioned not the better option? recurring creds are great if you use them often.

mykonian · Post Post #89 (isolation #22) » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:11 am

why shadow? I think this is where someone like buttons would ask you if that one point isn't better spend our savior, the lord jesus. And you might want to free even more influence for him.

mykonian · Post Post #91 (isolation #23) » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:20 am

oh, yes. But it's money ice they run through, and you kind of don't want them to run through you early on (because it would be nice to protect one agenda before the runner is set up) and you are HB so you'll have money.

It's a bit odd here.

mykonian · Post Post #93 (isolation #24) » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:29 am

well, that and it seems you'd like jackson howard (jesus and a couple of other names), he helps with what a couple of operations try to do already. People quite like the card.

mykonian · Post Post #96 (isolation #25) » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:23 am

SE will always be a thing, I guess.

I am 90% sure you want cyberfeeders. They pay for installing crypsis/darwin, and they pay for making darwin stronger, and for breaking ice. Cyberfeeder/darwin is a combo I've actually seen outside anarch, so I think it's silly to pass it here.

It's a personal thing, but I don't like armitage here. You draw into two cards every turn, and have three left. In general, cards are good and most of you can ofload with sahasrara, cycling through viruses with aesops (which is why you might want another, which is classic I think) if you like. Armitage is too heavy on the clicks for too little benefit. There's simply too little time to use them. The same could be said for liberated account, but that one is fast, and you actually could reasonably play two liberated accounts in a match and have no trouble at all with your click management. Daily casts is good here compared to in other decks. One click, decent return on investment.

Personally I was impressed with gorman drip in a similar noise. 9/10 it's a 1 cred virus mill-aesops food, but in one of those 10 games corp didn't do their homework or the poor sod was jinteki, and tadaa, free money.

There are the obvious warnings: AI's are expensive, and darwin is no exception. They have more trouble working later on. Corps got action jackson, our lord and savior, and he's forcing noises playstyle away from what this deck does best, running 3 times in the whole game and winning off that. At FFG, they decided that was boring and they were right. So they send Jesus and saw it was good. In all seriousness, he's going to cause problems. There are decks that are good at running often and keeping a check on corp, wyldside does not do that. It makes economy a hard balance, it leaves little time for runs, and because there's mostly room for virus/AI's, those runs aren't that cheap either. Wyldside is being true to it's theme and is quite the handful in games. It's brilliant fun to play, but you are as much struggling with your own deck as with the opponents.

mykonian · Post Post #98 (isolation #26) » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:57 am

Or you discard. And yes, she's rather good.

mykonian · Post Post #102 (isolation #27) » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:36 am

hito has put something online. Db0 has quite a bit of material, most simply of playing the game, but they help.

mykonian · Post Post #108 (isolation #28) » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:03 am

pffft, idk. There's a forum on bgg that's rather active. Via cardgamedb there's some access to series of articles and the likes.

mykonian · Post Post #111 (isolation #29) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:13 am

weyland, probably. Burst economy + ice that stops runners. Oh, and getting free wins by blowing their appartments up. To get used to the practical side of the game, that's probably easiest. As for strongest... nbn probably. It simply plays the most easily, it's strategy is really clear cut. Haas is the economy corp, but that makes it really tricky to get through the early game where they aren't very strong yet. The basic identity is easy to play, and makes you get used to the corporate tempo rather well. I wouldn't touch jinteki at first. It's hard to pull off, it has no economy, it's cards are efficient, but a lot of them are nichy. It has a lot of silly combo's that are hard to pull off, and generally bluffing works best if you are ahead... and that's right what jinteki is struggling to achieve.

mykonian · Post Post #122 (isolation #30) » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:42 am

I think... nbn for corp. Caduceus and pop-up are main cards, most of the threats of nbn are sitting in core (astro and SE), as well as most other strong cards (data raven. Chimera is not the worst card for it, marked accounts and TMI are decent support cards, though be careful with tmi. It's high risk high reward. http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/946021/deck-nbn-flytrap was a popular deck for a little while, a nice base to build from as well. Take notice that he's not trying to win by blowing up appartments, but if that's your style it's not too hard to adjust.

As for the runner side, from the cards of those packs, personal workshop was a very dominant card. The problem is a bit that the deck which abused that card the most has found by now that the meta has caught up (mostly because of Jesus (jackson howard)). Imp as well was a good enabler for it. That would be noise-shop, double aesops, double personal workshop, your favorite criminal event card, triple wyldside, give or take 15 cool cheap virusses (medium or two, maybe nerve agent, imp's, data suckers, parasites), some money which is easy on the clicks, grimoire, stimhack. Plan is simple, load as many virusses as you draw on personal workshop, bide your time, run maybe once on an easy remote, then do the math and see how many cards you'd need to see "blind" to win. The things you abuse are the fact that noise

needs

money, noise's passive, and the fact that you can use stimhack's money to get stuff off personal workshop instantly. Getting 5 or 6 virusses off for one brain damage and using parasites to blow up their R&D ice to get your medium in multiple times (with imp), is rather worth it.

The downsides? It's really boring to play against. Basically your opponent sees you draw, put on personal workshop. He runs maybe once on a remote, then doesn't jack shit again. Suddenly he blows a hole in R&D or your hand, depending on if he wants to use nerve agent or medium, unloading a mass of virusses to then look in your archives for the win. Uhm, what? The second downside is that since that is the playstyle noise shop forces a bit on you (wyldside eats clicks, and you want to play a lot of cards), a certain corp card that juggles agenda's out of archives into r&d is a tad annoying. It makes the game longer if you try to play like noise shop does. It doesn't help at all, forces you to run more often and that's not where noise-shops strength lies (it is more fun though).

Otherwise, I don't think there's a strategy defining card in there for a runner. Plascrete is important, mains in a lot of decks and helps criminal maybe more then others (tank-gabe still works). Emergiancy shutdown is a decent criminal card, nothing special. I think you'd want to play gabe if you think people have the newer sets or if you want to make people sad while running a lot.

mykonian · Post Post #124 (isolation #31) » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:14 am

It's a bit better than that. There's very little "instant speed" in netrunner. Once you start a run, the biggest influence you usually have is your choice of icebreakers and the option to jack out at given times. You would love to be able to tutor for a card while on a run, or something like that, but there are very limited options for that. This was the first card that gave you some way to respond with programs while on the run, disguised as a halfdecent economy card (one cred per turn). Later cards like SMC (expensive, one shot tutor), and clone chip (can pull from the heap (graveyard), also one shot) gave shaper more such tricks. Noise enjoys the economy PW provides (anarchs have curious money generation), wyldside's problems in a cheap deck get somewhat mitigated (you don't need the money right away, you can load it on PW first), but he loves that with grimoire and perhaps a loaded data sucker that he can put a parasite on some ice that was just rezzed against him on the run. Ice that gets blown up does not fire. He loves that he only has to pay for medium the moment he knows he's broken through in R&D and not a second earlier. And the best he thinks is that stimhack, a really good anarch event, gives him 9 cred for one brain damage

during a run

. Instant speed program buying, that personal workshop facilitates, means that noise gets to make the most out of his 1 brain damage.

mykonian · Post Post #127 (isolation #32) » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:05 am

currently untested next iteration of a consistently failing identity that I love.

Spoiler: I don't want to know how many predecessors this had-HB:ST

mykonian · Post Post #143 (isolation #33) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:57 pm

Generally, they are. Just put up a game titled that you are new, and there's probably someone to play you. You would hardly be the only one doing it.

It's a game you learn by playing. The interface is also not 100% intuitive, and everybody had to start out there someday. Most remember (esspecially if they know what to expect of you).

mykonian · Post Post #155 (isolation #34) » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:55 am

neutral cards usually are a tad less interesting. What lies ahead is probably the expansion Euserio would love, because you seem to be intent on blowing up her appartment (you dick). It contains plascrete, which is among the better defenses against a deck which wants to blow you up.

Future proof brings New Angeles city hall, which she also might love for similar reasons... Sadly most of it's great cards are NBN, nothing really good for your weyland.

Otherwise, it's just really hard from that. Even this advise is a bit shaky. There are simply not that many game changing neutrals, even plascrete fixes only one problem (SEA source - SE - SE combo), which only works if the runner is 10 creds or so down on the corp.

Jinteki never really gets strong. It's the payoff for the amount of mindgames they can play.

mykonian · Post Post #157 (isolation #35) » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:16 am

mostly, it moves them away from the trap in their own agendas. Nisei invites too much bad play if you don't know what you are doing.

mykonian · Post Post #159 (isolation #36) » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:00 am

WLA indeed has some more than playable cards, a couple of them are core to some deck types. The agendas are indeed helping, since you now get some choice, but you might want to play with the core agendas anyway. Braintrust is nice, but it's not amazing, in the end a bit boring. Restructured datapool is fun to play with, but has been a bit fringe, usually. Same goes for mandatory upgrades. They are lots of fun to play with, just a tad hard to pull off. Atlas suits weyland, so that one is indeed great.

Big cards are caduceus (tends to be a standard card for NBN, weyland), Imp (auto include in Noise), plascrete (decks without better have a plan against anything that runs scorched earth). If I'm not mistaken, Imp made noise viable before personal workshop made him a bit too big, so that unlocks a whole new way of playing. Plascrete at least introduces some play with corps blowing runners up, so that might break the meta a little. As for the strength of the cards all but one or maybe two are very playable. Sounds like a very good pick up, pie!

mykonian · Post Post #160 (isolation #37) » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:50 am

And while I'm here anyway...

Spoiler: my latest creation

Half this deck was inspired by wanting to play with some new cards, with a deck archetype that I knew a little. I have no clue if Fenris really belongs here, but the fact that you could stick a brain damage on the runner early game sounds fun, it makes you all that much scarier. Probably if I was sensible, I'd get tsurugi out. It's not doing too much this way. But the rest of the cards, I love! I like the idea of clone retirement, a 2-1 sounds great. Bad publicity doesn't sound like the biggest problem for jinteki (lets face it, if they want to, they are going to get in), but that's a nice bonus and excuse to run Fenris and Grim. Grim obviously is a great card for what this deck tries to do, so I'm not unhappy there. Wraparound is quite the card. Yagura is mostly there for the "lategame". Sure, you are getting in and sure, I don't have an economy, but you are still going to pay for seeing my R&D. It has been a decent card the times I got to play it.

Shocks and snares feels really greedy, I admit and so far my enthousiasm for shock hasn't been warranted, it hasn't really featured in my games yet. I hope that will change.

Anyway, MS, do you have tips, advice, criticism?

mykonian · Post Post #162 (isolation #38) » Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:53 am

but then... aren't you playing two cards?

Pad is also cool because if they trash it, you still win. Sundew has that a bit less. They run your ice, you rez it, maybe they lose a click because they can't break it initially, then they break and trash sundew. There isn't a lot of ETR ice that costs way less to rez than to break, so lets call that even. Sundew costs you 2 clicks more to set up (drawing the ice and playing it), costs them 1 click more to break (assuming their first attempt at running it failed), 2 creds less. All in all, they are up 1 click and 2 creds then, but sundew nets more money than PAD, 1 every turn. Take 1 click being worth ~2 creds (because it's a nice round number and most ways of making money approach that number), you need to have sundew out for 4 turns to make it worth it (in the case that they can't break initially).

I mean, there are totally games where that happens and then sundew is awesome. It's not a level up from PAD, it gives you another option.

mykonian · Post Post #163 (isolation #39) » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:04 am

this made my day

sandor uses Click #4 to activate HQ in order to start a run on HQ.
<mykonian> you make my day
mykonian has rezzed Heimdall 2.0 for 11 ¥.
--> mykonian activates Haas-Bioroid to put 1 Permanent +1 counters on Heimdall 2.0,.
<mykonian> it's too strong for your knight.
(3x) sandor pays 2 ¥ to activate Knight in order to break ICE subroutine.
<mykonian> sorry sandor
<mykonian> it's 8 strength.
<mykonian> your knight only 7.
<sandor> how is 8?
<mykonian> I get to run it.
<mykonian> my identity
<sandor> i didnt read completely your identity im not stupid
<sandor> then you win bye bye
sandor has left the game.

edit: he was on one card.

mykonian · Post Post #164 (isolation #40) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:47 pm

I don't know if buttons is in scumchat, so I'll put my rambling here.

I don't get the point of lucky find in this cycle. It's a neutral 2 influence double, 9 for 3 creds. So all in all, you turn 3 clicks (draw, play, play) into 6 creds, or 2 per click. That's nice, but when you think about it, that's the same as a sure gamble (2 clicks for 4). Sure gamble is pretty awesome, but sure gamble doesn't take influence.

Now, some synergy is put in the runner double events, esspecially starlight crusade funding might appeal to some people. For just the little cost of one click per turn you get to ignore the extra click doubles cost. So as soon as you play two a turn, you are doing great! Average game is 15 turns, so supposing you draw your deck in that time, you'd want at least 16 doubles in your deck. And that's where the trouble starts, I think. Too many of them are narrow, or have different purposes alltogether. They are spread out over the factions, have significant influence costs in some cases (running interference at 4, for example). With power nap, lucky find and starlight crusade funding they made a base for a double based deck, for just 6 influence in shaper (as if you have plenty of that to spend on just event based economy). I don't see it work anytime soon.

That being the only saving grace for lucky find, I simply don't see the point of including it

It's not a particulary fun or niche card that might appeal to some players (like the source, which cost was steep but at least was unique in what it did, even if few decks got build around it), it's just a boring event economy card.

mykonian · Post Post #166 (isolation #41) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:05 am

Spoiler: playing with midori

I think this is the 4th iteration by now, and it's not close to being as good a deck as the other jin I'm playing with (a couple posts up is the decklist that's very close to what I'm using now), but I like the idea.

The meta as far as I see and hear about really loves knight, if they don't run it, odds are they run parasite and femme is a popular card. People like those tricks. Now, jinteki already have one solution in house, bako. Should the runner be so silly to femme a bako while it's unrezzed, you are having a fun game. Now that so much stuff gets hosted on your ice and in all but parasites case also possibly on unrezzed ice, midori might be starting to be a more than good card. At least the idea isn't half bad. Runner puts his fancy trick on some closed card because he's a bit scared he might have to facecheck ice, you wait for midori, drop it behind and next time the runner goes for that server his fancy trick disappears as you switch the ice with something from your hand. That would straight up be an economic benefit. With rezzed ice, you trade something rezzed for unrezzed, so you'd lose a bit there, but probably would be able to put something in that the runner at least finds annoying (which gets easier if they depend on tricks to get in, lots of ice becomes annoying then).

Jin RP seemed the best place for it, it's a good idea to have tax the runner for running and midori wouldn't cost influence. It would also help racking up some serious money via assets (earlier decks had also quite a bit of event based economy and I'm not quite sure about stuff yet). I probably still fall over if some dedicated cred denial deck comes in, I suspect those games depend a lot on if I can get a melange up now. For ice, the influence is spend on taxing ice. I'm RP, I do not want a lot of free runs, I already play to have a lot of money, ichi, eli and tollbooth can be the stars of my deck. Chimera was a suggestion of Buttons, and the reasoning is sound, but I'm not sure if I want to go too heavily on that. Too often it'll be a dead card. With dedicated server, it does get better. I cannot help myself and have to put cell portal in a deck with money and midori. Midori initially was proposed to be savior of cell portal. It's a 7 strength code gate (that hurts), but it's a money sink for corp and it doesn't do a thing early game while you do want at the bottom of your stack of ice. It's lategame ice that you want to find early, if you can't cheat it into the bottom of the stack. Running sunset just for cell portal is awkward, but given that midori was already in the deck for other reasons, a one off cell portal to be found later in the game (when your remote is 3 or 4 ice high) might just be the lock on your server (and so far it hasn't disappointed).

Caprice is the addition from double time, obviously. I am not in agreement with people who think she's the end of netrunner, she's a strong upgrade as so many are, and she works in some cases. A corp with money, a big stack of costly ice. I'll want her on my server for my last agenda, preferably having already scored a nisei mkII.

So in other words, if this deck gets going, it works nicely and has fun moments. It's a biggish If though.

mykonian · Post Post #167 (isolation #42) » Sun May 11, 2014 12:56 pm

Spoiler: noise-cred-denial

This is a netdeck, Buttons told me about it months ago. Maybe there are some oldfashioned cards in there, but I doubt it. Too many cards simply doing too much work. It's probably not even a good deck, I mean, I can think of the corp plan that punishes this deck and I think it's what most of the top players ran at worlds. Cheap ETR ice and getting HQ closed down asap because you don't let Siphon in for free.

But it's a lot of fun to play with. The resources are actually the best. They ask: "how much shit are you going to let me get away with". Masanori up is a beast of a card. Joshua is a beast of a card. As long as corp doesn't think they have the means to remove them, you are golden. And with 3 siphons, 6 ways to recur them... you kind of should be able to convince them they aren't really in the position to be bothered by your resources. And while that's going on, cards disappear inevitably into archives, even with jackson out there, that's just waiting for the free win. I like that the deck builder went for gorman drip. It's the perfect card, literally does it all for this deck. I'm quite impressed with the deckbuilder in general, programs, events and resources: everything does work, I'm rarely unhappy with my draw. Clearly a better job than I usually do, this deck works.

I've seen a couple of people run these resources when H&P is out, together with fall guy. That feels like they are missing the point.

mykonian · Post Post #169 (isolation #43) » Mon May 19, 2014 2:00 am

Spoiler: giving buttons brain damage

This was the deck I ran against Shanba yesterday. And Buttons can say what he wants, including that game I'm now 5-0 with it!

He's probably right that it's not very good though. I'm not quite sure what this deck does if it doesn't have any money. But we'll see about that when it happens

mykonian · Post Post #172 (isolation #44) » Wed May 21, 2014 2:21 am

ok, had a slight update on the HB deck, melanges should have been in there before, cleaned up the ice a little, added some more money. Same agenda set though. Then I remembered the problem I used to have with ST.

This deck is fine against shaper with their cute cheese decks. It's fine against half the criminals. The other half has link. It dies to Reina.

I suspect wall of static is a card it needs. Or maybe wraparound. The bioroids are fine on HQ when they are 2 deep, but they don't help you take off early enough. Caduceus is a great card, but simply not enough on it's own. Enigma perhaps?

mykonian · Post Post #173 (isolation #45) » Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:29 pm

you guys are gone already, Patrick asked me a little back when the new cards would come. I thought that was quite some time still, but apparently I was quite mistaken. The spoiled text for the first datapack has already been automated for octgn and has just been made available, printed cards are apparently supposed to appear in shops in a couple of weeks.

mykonian · Post Post #175 (isolation #46) » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:37 am

decided to post about this deck, because it makes shanba dispair (another siphon!? you have already won, I wish you had multi access cards!) and because Buttons doesn't think Reina is an identity. The deck also works against people who aren't Shanba, since it had similar results and gameplay against other people.

Spoiler: Reina

On shanba's request I have put in indexing at some point as a wincondition. It's nice because you already have the recursion set up for it, so corp better respect your threat on R&D as well. The anarch resource set is just pure fun in combination with cred denial elsewhere. Joshua and John do so much work if they don't get trashed, data leak reversal is a win condition in the rare games where people don't respect it. Usually it dies in a turn. As with the noise deck earlier, I believe Armitage is mandatory. This deck doesn't particulary mind being poor, it does mind being broke. Armitage is probably the best way to deal with closed accounts.

The cool stuff happens in the breakers though, where the synergy between deep red and overmind can be abused, while the click saved on night and rook is nice, but it feels not straight up awesome. I do like playing with the chess pieces, it's a really cool concept. Parasite is there to deal with quandary, mostly so far. But basically, they rez ice at a premium, I want to make it useless in some way.

It's in Reina because apart from the Jinteki RP's, I don't see many asset based economies (bit different in mafiascum games). I don't think I'd get a lot of profit out of wizard in many matchups. Consequence is that I would indeed struggle against something really going for a drip economy.

mykonian · Post Post #176 (isolation #47) » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:12 am

To talk about it in scumchat:

Spoiler: deck with bishop

I tried to make a deck which included bishop, which I had seen play well a while back. Took a while, but I found the decklist, and the above is remotely based on it. It's probably not as good as the original, but it has a certain amount of inevitability which is pleasant, but it comes at a cost. Morning star is unwieldy, compared to corroder for the lategame you are a memory short (hence the awkward akamatsu). Siphon isn't a strategy which I don't think is particulary great given that currently everybody expects it, the deck is horribly inconsistent since you more or less depend on drawing into your breakers, and it cuts a corner on the plascretes. The lucky find inclusion is mediocre and a signal that I could basically not find cards to spend influence on very well, that did what I wanted. I'm not sure about pro-contracts, the first iteration was with corroder already saw moments with a lack of money and I pushed in some more economy when introducing morning star (I was already toying with the idea when I played you buttons, so you can't claim partial responsibility for that one

). Mr Li did not get used too often in those games but it does mitigate the biggest issue this deck has. I might switch that back. Clone chips are well spend influence, I like those, not sure if I need more.

mykonian · Post Post #177 (isolation #48) » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:57 am

someone make me enthusiastic for any of the upstalk cards

There's not a single one I really want to play with.

mykonian · Post Post #180 (isolation #49) » Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:40 am

I like lamprey. The rest is boring

Spoiler: noise

This is the last try I made at this deck, took out crypsis put in darwin. I kept discarding crypsis (it's kind of too expensive, really), but probably am going to need to access for a big run someday. Grimoire is still in for the one game where I need the memory. Haven't gotten to that point yet. It's mean to the opponent, but it's fun for me!

mykonian · Post Post #186 (isolation #50) » Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:51 pm

(midori)

but yes, you are right. Parasite feels more threatening than yog is.

mykonian · Post Post #188 (isolation #51) » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:30 am

Can second that, it's a nicely working deck. Also, Patrick has a good win/loss against me. Two slightly related facts.

More "facts" through sorting out some data. This is 1.5 years of noise games. First fitted line is Sam suieds noise for a big part, I suspect. Second fitted line is around the formation of the new deck including lamprey. Third line is addition of kraken and the list becoming where it is now, which has been rather stable.

First lines winrate is about 62%, second 68%, third 73%. Either I am or the deck is improving!

(and I felt like posting this because I've been having fun with tossing data around for a little time now)

mykonian · Post Post #190 (isolation #52) » Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:05 am

All in all, taxing is nice but you really want no runs to come through whether economically or simply by ETR. Shadow doesn't really do either. I wouldn't go that way in this deck.

mykonian · Post Post #191 (isolation #53) » Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:59 am

First contact is rezzed on OCTGN, and these are exciting times! People are obviously going to see what damage quetzal can do, but then I suspect unless someone figures out an e3 anarch deck, it's not going to do so much new.

The thing that interests me most is that a stealth deck should now be possible (in shaper). There's refractor, blackkat, dagger (of which dagger is the only one useless without setup), ghost runner, cloak, as well as the in faction stealth hardware. Now, refractor should be the shit. The popular early game code gates it can break like that, it is a 1 cost breaker (!!!). Blackkat doesn't need stealth creds really, but can abuse them if you can spend them. The main downside over corroder feels like it's influence, for the popular early game barriers it's just as cheap to use or even better, and with stealth creds it takes out eli cheaply (which is the winningest ice). It's cost is indeed a downside, but those two creds feel like a good investment. Dagger is the worst obviously, but the moment you get stealth creds, there's nothing like it. In my opinion, if you do build up a stealth rig, your late game is set. Nothing keeps you out.

The problem is getting there. I have no clue where to start. What money do you want, how do you deal with the memory usage, what's your win conditions... You guys got any ideas?

mykonian · Post Post #202 (isolation #54) » Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:56 am

stimhack.com has a rather big list of decklists that won tournaments, through time and they give what data packs were out. Just keep in mind that it's not only the cards that limit the invention of new decks, it's also the players.

EDIT: hi patrick. Also c&c was the HB-shaper big box. Still, given the nature of shaper, there's a lot of great supporting cards, also a couple of the neutrals support strategies in stead of being the strategy itself. I've heard it say that if you look to buy into netrunner some more, this is the box you could look at (even if it's a deluxe expansion)

mykonian · Post Post #204 (isolation #55) » Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:49 am

It feels like the impact of H&P is comparative less than C&C anyway, and you are right, esspecially mala tempora had some meta defining cards.

mykonian · Post Post #207 (isolation #56) » Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:50 pm

A lot of people get it wrong initially.

Also, it's partly the annoying thing with netrunner. With other games, I tended to make sure I knew the rules in a timely manner, but somehow with netrunner one keeps bumping into situations that don't quite work the way you expected. This week, Patrick had to correct me in that you must take agendas if there's no other cost associated with taking them. I've played that wrong for ages.

mykonian · Post Post #209 (isolation #57) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:57 am

yes, you can choose to run a server and not see the cards in it. When you do and if it's an agenda with no associated cost (you aren't playing against jinteki PE, there's no red herrins, it's not an NAPD-Fetal) you must take it.

Like, you never run into that rule. Till you suspect your opponent runs punitives and you just found two three pointers in archives, or if you run kraken.

mykonian · Post Post #212 (isolation #58) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:06 am

Sure, post what you got.

Also, might help to know what sets are available to you.

mykonian · Post Post #214 (isolation #59) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:37 am

classic supermodernism doesn't run it!

mykonian · Post Post #218 (isolation #60) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:04 pm

That supermodernism list is pretty great. Just one card stands out, really, and that's closed accounts. When they are tagged, they should fear for their life already. And you aren't going to waste a sea source on it reasonably. Since you have false lead, you have access to green level clearance as well, that might be a cooler way of spending your influence, maybe even run 3. It speeds up your game, brings more economy. I don't agree with Patrick on the archers. You are right in bringing three, the game becomes so much easier after an early rezzed archer and you don't want to be in the situation where you cant draw grims/archers.

After that, it's just playing it properly and that deck should have success. (actually, I think putting in a playset of green level clearances comes really close to the deck that made the name).

As for the kate list, I'd have to think about that. Patrick has good suggestions, but it also depends on how much you want to play with dagger. One thing that did stand out was the two parasites. Between the tutors and clone chips, the first has great value. For 2 influence, you'll get 4 uses during one cycle of your deck. The next parasite just adds one. I wouldn't know where to spend that influence yet, but that's a place where you could free it up. Also, you run without code gate breaker. Shaper has 4 legit ones, you must be able to like one

mykonian · Post Post #219 (isolation #61) » Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:08 am

ok, thought a little more, also bored.

For the Kate deck: don't float tags, unless in an endgame situation. You are simply way too rich to allow to lose that way. I mean, you could have a plascrete or two in that deck in case the corps econ outruns you significantly, but that's a choice I feel. Patrick is right in that modded is a bit of an odd duck. Prepaid doesn't make it cheaper, and you have limited targets for it. With Kate's ability, basically only the toolbox. That's a little bit awkward. Means you could put in another lucky find (that card is just ridiculous in this deck, even if you recur it with same old thing, should you want to. 3 clicks for 8-9 creds depending on setup is pretty huge) if you managed to free up some influence elsewhere

Might also pay to have a third SMC, you run a lot of one offs, and it's quite a powerful card early game, putting one down more or less means they won't dare to score behind a single piece of ice.

Another way to go economy wise is how old katman did, is to skip the lucky finds, throw out toolbox, and run two desperados! You'll make money off your runs, which get more powerful off run events, atman/breakers mean you can get in cheap usually, it works against the asset based corps. Probably makes you quite a bit more aggressive. That's a thought, could be fun to play. Less set up, more running!

IDK, you can go so many ways with kate, lots of them are good. I also don't know what your opponents will look like. Deus ex is nice vs jin pe, it helps to be rich your have plascrete against weyland grndl or babw, blue sun can't be the worst matchup for the lucky find build, you have a ton of multi access vs the fast advance corps. You are covering a lot of bases already, it's more a matter of smoothing it out, making all pieces of your deck work together.

I've been looking at the decks at worlds, and you aren't far off them either. But they had a little spread in their intentions.

mykonian · Post Post #220 (isolation #62) » Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:45 am

And for comparison: this is the deck I build to test out will o' the wisp when that came out, supermodernism seemed like a decent fit for it. There were a couple more cards in there that made less sense. It's GRNDL because I had been playing BABW right before that, similar theme. One reason why beanstalk is in there, the core was ported straight over from BABW, it's not an ideal card in GRNDL (and the other way around with restructure, that's better in grndl, really), but I stuck with it because GRNDL is more constrained influencewise.

Spoiler: supermodernist

So yeah, don't bother with the wisps, I like them but I don't know about others who are playing that, so they are probably just a curiosity. Agenda and ice wise it's pretty much where you ended up.

mykonian · Post Post #228 (isolation #63) » Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:15 am

Looks pretty solid, Oman! Couple of thoughts.

In post 226, Oman wrote:Went for a full breaker set over Atman, leaving one for early flexibility against common early ice.

I think with a list like that, you want atman at 4 strength as a gameplan. It pays off so quickly, paying 5 for an eli with snowball is no fun. 2 runs already makes the atman pay off then. And eli isn't the only 4 str commonly played ice.

Mimic will really only struggle with archer, personal touches and suckers exist though.

Also, sharpshooter! In light of the previous, I would not touch mimic. I'd play it for value on the pumpable breakers. With kate, that's 1 cost to permanently pump gordian/snowball. That's a decent deal.

Added net celebrity as I picked up that datapack today, and I want a counter to ELP (and if not...free credits!). Note: I'm aware that ELP isn't amazing vs prepaid kate because she runs on events, but yeah worth taking.

Also, just for the fun of playing with currents! This Kate looks like she could deal with a lot of problems people could throw at her.

Vets program for False lead. Helps to scrub the bad pub as a bonus. Also, I don't have any of the colour level clearances.

Sorry about that, green level (which is the easy splashable, blue level is a bit more of a pain) is in the same set as false lead.

I would not run veterans program as a replacement. The idea is that you don't care as much about the bad pub as long as the runner is too scared to run you. False lead would serious restrictly the runner, he could basically only run your centrals first click (suppose he hits a snare running the second click, you use false lead, win the game like that.) Also, he'd have to check his money for most of his turn. Get too low and have a succesful run, and that could be it. So it's a card that helps you threaten your combo more effectively.

The core has a similar agenda. With Posted bounty, if you are ahead or the game is close money wise, and have the combo in hand (or an atlas token up (you do always overadvance atlas right? just checking)), this helps you close it out without giving the runner time to get back in. Put it down, advance twice. If the runner doesn't run it, you score, forfeit, double scorched. If he does run, he'll have a succesful run and have less money. Basically the money situation governs it, you need to be 8-9 creds up (depending on link) to combo out at the end of his turn. So some little maths should tell you when you could make this play and put the runner into a position where he can't win without tricks.

Anyway, posted bounty helps gain a decisive victory in games where you have worked yourself into a good position. When I was thinking about the decks before you posted them, but didn't know yet what packs you owned, that was my close second choice for that agenda slot. It fits the style and brings some very nice utility. They both do different things, false lead is really restrictive till the runner is comfortable, posted bounty punishes the runner investing, who feels secure being low in creds because he isn't running.

mykonian · Post Post #230 (isolation #64) » Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:04 am

Ok, I'm not a kate player myself, but that's a deck I have seen. Mimic is a very nice fit with atman-sucker, as you want a 4 str atman anyway (eli, lotus field are popular cards and it pays to break them easily). You fix it's issue and without that you are getting the greatest killer for just one influence point. That's a pretty awesome deal.

And really, your deck seems pretty awesome. Lately the new shaper console has been the rage (it's quicker than toolbox, but so are most cards

), but playing with toolbox is fine and you have some support for it. It's certainly better late.

If you do feel like sharpening it up, zu13 for code gate breaker might be a thought. It's cheaper to bring out against a rushing corp that is looking to do silly trickery with quandary's. Basically it's just enigma that'd take a sucker token to be as efficient as breaking it with the gordian blade that's 3 creds more expensive. Yagura, quandry, enigma, lotus field and tollbooth are I think the most common code gates. Last two are atman-sucker food, first two zu13 is better, enigma is the one you face more easily with gordian. Costs 1 cred or 1 sucker token more. Also, you'd run it for value already, but you are planning to have 3 link at some point, giving you the option to run 7 programs should you want to. Don't think you do as of now, but it's a thought! Anyway, that's nitpicking, as you can see.

Given that you have datasuckers, personal touches have space in your deck you could do more fun things with, I feel. I honestly wouldn't know what to do with it, but there are a lot of fun cards in shaper.

mykonian · Post Post #232 (isolation #65) » Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:35 am

oh, shoot, if that was the question, then yes, patrick is correct. You don't need to use personal touch on mimic. You have one atman, and that guy is just too great at 4 strength.

mykonian · Post Post #234 (isolation #66) » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:04 am

oh, you got Atlas from somewhere else? And sorry for the confusion, that wasn't the best sentence

mykonian · Post Post #236 (isolation #67) » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:06 am

And that's your star player

You could build a decent deck like this if you have the core, opening moves (grim and geothermal fracking) and what lies ahead (atlas), I think. Wouldn't be as sharp as with all the new cards, shutdown and an extra transaction could really help, but that's not a bad start.

Maybe something for the next tournament, oman

mykonian · Post Post #238 (isolation #68) » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:42 am

Spoiler: silhouette run event

Now, this deck has all the signs of one that had a good idea at the start but quickly became a mash of cards thrown together. I've played around with it a little on octgn now, couple of games, and although it obviously has it's downsides, haven't really started fixing them. The good idea it started with was that by having a small deck and all planned assaults and all same old things, you could get a lot of options to deal with problems thrown at you. It was discussed in scumchat that inside job is a good card, now it's on demand. Makers eye and legwork are solid solutions to some gamestates. I personally really like running interferance against blue sun and assorted glaciers. They spend their turns stacking ice to finally get their agenda in, you muck up their maths. Singularity I've thrown into some anarchs lately in order to prepare for shell corp shenanigans (which I haven't found yet) but it also is good against

Patrick

people who play ash or other non-caprice upgrades. I haven't played vamp-AS yet, but can't wait for the game where that's the best way to deal with issues. Should be good vs jinteki.

Given that I had so many solutions, I didn't think it was necessary to run continiously. Silhouette doesn't promote it either, which is fine by me. All that's left is getting a nice economy, decent breakers, and maybe some tech for specific matchups. 3 MO's later I notice I've ran out of influence, hence awkward breakers. I'm basically forced to tutor for corroder. As again, the plan wasn't to run too much, the main criminal consoles were out, logos or box-e left. There are only two cards I really want to search for and that's corroder and MO if I can't find it. Box-E seemed the better deal. By now I had a deck that wanted to have a big hand, a big bank, and run events all over the place, so it was basically unavoidable to include savoir faire

So, given this gameplan, and given that running interference and singularity can't be taken out, what would you do with this deck?

mykonian · Post Post #240 (isolation #69) » Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:44 am

we talked about it in scumchat when buttons and patrick happened to be around. Deck indeed got a couple of upgrades after those discussions.

Took out the vamp and siphon alltogether. It didn't really fit the playstyle. Savoir faire was really too cute, so that went as well. It was fun to have the breakers in hand, but I don't know if it really affected the corp. Powerful against jinteki PE, but got feedback filter for that (with MO, silhoutte and box-e, that should be a workable matchup).

Initially the deck had some consistency issues, major bottlenecks being MO and Box-E. Put in a second box e, added card draw in the form of QT and express deliveries. Thought corroder would be one as well, but with only one target for special order, that really was quite managable so far. So indeed, breach went. It doesn't really have a good matchup anyway.

The unregistered S&W hasn't seen use yet, but I don't want to be that guy who loses to a caprice in a remote, given that against glacier that's where I am supposed to win. Plascrete is an odd duck really, given MO, but it doesn't hurt.

Indeed, NBN is an issue. There's some opportunity to have some multi access, but it's simply not enough, and you need to draw a lot of cards to get all of it. Haven't figured out a plan for that yet

The result has a lot less chaff in it, a bit more focussed.

Spoiler: new silhouette

mykonian · Post Post #247 (isolation #70) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:40 am

ok, I'm with patrick, I don't know kit too well. Blackat is a card I would say might be too much. Refractor is a beast, that's the card you want to be the star of your deck. As for logos... I get why you do it, I'd be curious to see if it worked, but I don't know if it's good per se. Astrolabe couldn't be bad, really. But logos might be good? Anyway, there are decent other non stealth options for you as fracters. Dagger might be an option given that it's a lot more economical than the competition, but even there it's a choice, as you've explained already. If you keep femme and fear for the lack of tutoring, test run is a great card. Economy wise I'm not a pro-co player myself, I find the card clunky. Might be a matter of preference.

I have a bit more clue about the NBN one.

Spoiler: for reference

This is a nbn tagging deck that I've played around with lately. I'm not terribly good at playing it, but this is a functional NBN tagging deck. Draco tends to be a MVP in making news, it does it all for you. Most tagging cards allow runs, which is awkward. Draco is an exception. Also, it's a sentry that says ETR. There are two ways to combo out, one midseasons psycho beal, the other midseasons scorched (or play breaking news, wait a turn, advance, astro token, score, SE, SE for style points). Viper is there for value, but that's a spot you can play with, obviously. You don't have atlas here, so 3 scorched is pretty mandatory. This deck will lose agendas in it's remote, but you have to get the runner to run you. That's your best way of grinding out a credit lead for midseasons.

Data raven is an awkward card. Against some runners, for a little time it's the best ETR you can get, against others it's a fancy piece of paper. Be careful with it, it's not as good as it seems. The rest of the ice ends runs. Just having tags as tax simply isn't fast enough. If they take the tags, you are suddenly way too porous and lose pretty much automatically against runners with multiaccess (which is all of them)

There's an old deck that didn't play with scorched, but ran stuff like big brother and private security force. It was called flytrap, but as said, that is a really old deck. I wouldn't know if or how you would play that same archetype with todays/your cardpool. That might be something to look in to. It's goals are similar to what you are trying with your deck. Only one issue really: it plays slow, grinds out an advantage. A lot of the cards it carried were intended to get it in a superior economic position where sea or midseasons could get it started (tollbooth, popup, data raven). The original had breaking news-> big brother as a combo to get tags on the opponent, with closed accounts, psychographics and maybe private security force as punishment. I tried to build something similar yesterday and played two games by now with it, it's not terrible, but I'm sure there's a lot of cards that could be exchanged. Just to give you an idea what I ended up with:

Spoiler: flytrap

Ok, having in mind that your meta apparently carries atman, this deck should have some tools to deal with it. Archer was a card in the original (though that had prioreq's, as said, old), but there are plenty of 1 pointers to sacrifice here and atman won't like it really. 4 strength atman hits data raven (lol, have a tag anyway) and the singleton hunter which was the 49th card after taking out the manhunt (there are simply too many agendas and I will give up runs). Tollbooth works decently against atman. A 3 strength one would suck a little, but quandary and ice wall would still do some work. Idk, feels like this has the tools to play against it. I don't know if it has enough ice in total, initial version carried a few more, but then, he didn't have jackson howard yet. Snares are a logical fit and it's hard to spend the influence sensibly otherwise. Old deck had false lead, but they didn't have TGTBT and it feels like a decent sub. Plan is to set up, play ice, force runs, have the runner get tagged at some point, getting them tagged some more and using psychographics/closed accounts to leverage that into scoring agendas. There are few runners who won't get into that situation at some point. But it's a much slower approach and your goal is to have comeback victories when that happens.

As for these cards: I threw them together, just to see if it still somewhat worked. I think you want at least the markeds, astro's, beals, a psycho, 3x closed accounts, the hedge funds, 3x caduceus, 2 tollbooths, 2 ravens as a core. They do too much work or form the strategy. After that, there's the choice if you want to run big brother or if you want to play with midseasons, we have NAPD now, might that be better, there's still 9 influence you can play with. Maybe another tollbooth would be nice, maybe the 3rd raven. There's all kinds of etr ice that could fit, eli is a great economical card. Ichi as you had in your deck. We have currents now, but with 12 agendas and not the most solid servers, I'd be hesitant. TMI is a card that could be used, draco again, should be really nice against atman, I think? Idk, there are tons of options, and as long as your ice is good economically, you have some ETR, it should work somewhat.

I wouldn't go with data hound here. There's a place for it, but probably not here. 1 cost for 1 tax isn't bad, but popup is better. I'm not sure about the fee either. It might work, but I wouldn't cut popups for it. Strictly seem better for the strategy. Given the idea of grinding out a lead, green levels wouldn't be the perfect fit. They suit a quicker strategy better.

mykonian · Post Post #248 (isolation #71) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:29 am

yes, thank you for your question oman. I enjoy playing the last deck

It's so much fun seeing people pay to remove tags. It's backbreaking for them! And so far, all the octgn opponents do it. Their resources are too precious.

mykonian · Post Post #251 (isolation #72) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:22 am

you aren't thinking like an NBN player yet

The goal isn't to end the run, to stop an agenda from being taken. The goal is to make them pay for it so they can't do it often without losing control over the game. Popup is an excellent card at limiting runs and helps you in a lot of (criminal) matchups. In these tagging decks, the ideal would still be that you get a big midseasons hit which closes the game out for you. Cards like popup help you do that. Shaper (esspecially with MO) is indeed a bad matchup for the deck, I think.

regarding caduceus: It's a monster, see above. It wins the economic battle and it says end the run. You can easily do without TMI, that's a tricky card, super optional.

The two issues with blackkat are the bigger initial cost and the higher influence, also, you might not need to focus as much getting the best fracter out there in your deck, I don't actually know if that's necessary in kit. Maybe you could save the influence. Anyway, I did mess around with all stealth decks and it felt like blackkat was making it even slower by it's cost. Maybe kit alleviates that, could do with some testing!

As for TGTBT, it's a 1 pointer and having 3 breaking newses is really cool. That's a good card in that deck from the testing I did by now. As written up before, it was a replacement for false lead (which that deck ran). No clue if it's actually good. You could obviously play around there. Same with the PSF's. The 4-2 this agenda is worth one more point if the runner is tagged might work just as well, NAPD might work. Hunter in that deck has a similar thing, I don't actually think that card is good enough there, pretty sure it should go for a more functionally good ice, but it was a thought and I put one in to see if I was happy with drawing it.

mykonian · Post Post #254 (isolation #73) » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:20 am

well, it's nice obviously. There are just 6 pieces of ice that will get use out of the credits of the ID: data raven's trace is never going to hit unless people have already accept tags. Leaves just viper and draco.

Now, against someone with link, spending one cred on the first viper trace offers a 3 cred for 1 click trade, which people aren't going to take. Same with the etr, it's just too much tax with those recurring credits. Without link you don't really need those but it's obviously still nice. Breaking it is obviously more taxing than enigma, and though yog users are a dying race (weee lotus field) that was a reason to include it as well: pay the sucker tax, please. So yes, if one has the influence to spare, it's a nice and powerful card. I didn't want one caduceus and one 1 influenc ice, so I went with this. But in the end it's personal choice, really.

mykonian · Post Post #256 (isolation #74) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:55 am

Wanted to post my new super serious ETF list. This is the one I'm playing in the stimhack league (4-0 so far, 2 good opponents, don't ask how I did it, because I don't know either). Mostly an update from my previous list which had some curious choices. This has one left, really. The root is a card that doesn't really bring anything new for the 3 influence it costs, but I don't know what else I would want for it as of now. One tollbooth maybe, take viktor 2 out, add an adonis. Hmm. Anyway, this deck is simple to play, has powerful cards, allows the opponent to mess up. Perfect for me then!

Spoiler: super serious HB FA

mykonian · Post Post #257 (isolation #75) » Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:27 am

couldn't sleep yesterday, then the sky opened and I heard a deep voice say "thou shalt build a professor deck with collective conciousness"

So after I saw the light, I went to work. An initial version needed testing and as if it were a miracle, patrick was online, looking for a runner. Of course that wasn't a coincidence, that was predestination.

Spoiler: professor with collective conciousness

Some particulary sharp readers among you might have noticed that I didn't do what I was told. I have to cut 3 cards to fit collective conciousness in. But I don't know which! All cards seem like they do something. Help me avoid being smitten!

mykonian · Post Post #259 (isolation #76) » Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:45 am

there was a lot of talk about it when the dogs were spoiled.

I'm not quite sure if the deck is actually very good, but it's not terrible? Winrate isn't spectacular so far, just above 50% but only one game was against a serious player (patrick). Change that was made after some playing was kati out, armitage in. I simply get more use out of two armitages than out of two kati's, can't handle burst economy as well and spend a lot up front paying for tutoring. Which is by the way an issue with this deck. It won't have a big bank at any point. I hoped I'd be somewhat in the clear with 12 clear economy cards, and a couple iffy ones (datasucker, scavenges), but that's one issue. Both the dogs have been quite nice, aesops is a monster here, imp has seen some work, sneakdoor/keyhole are successes and have won or forced archives ice. Parasite hasn't done a lot yet. Femme has seen a lot of play, never hard casted. Haven't had to levy yet, might be an issue with my play. The support suit with clone chips, scavenge, test run and SMC is very nice for quite a few cards. I liked playing around with that and getting value out of there.

mykonian · Post Post #261 (isolation #77) » Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:53 am

I saw someone use Ice analyser against me, also together with aesops. You get the econ out of it while you set up, then dump it for cash when you think you are in a good place/most ice is rezzed. Like, even if I don't use it it's 3 creds/2 clicks. That seemed fair, and this deck doesn't really run out of things to play with it. Idk, it is indeed a curiosity, it's in the deck because I wanted to test it and kind of hoped it would help me get a better early game (tended to be the weak side of my previous professor deck attempts and was always the focus). So far I haven't been too unhappy with it. It's clickless economy, and early on when the corp does rez now and then, it's not bad. Also kind of cool to have against blue sun (though I've only had that matchup once so far)

Parasite became useful in the games after that. It's really valuable against next ice (met a couple foundry decks with next and grail, don't know, maybe someone posted an article about that on stimhack?). You trash the silvers, use yog to get past the bronzes. As long as they don't run/don't find mother goddess, you are dealing with the next ice. Used to be my way of dealing with it in noise (then yog and knight were they ways past bronze, silver I didn 't want to break with corroder).

I don't think I would want to use it on popups. Oh, in the RP game I had after that post it took out a komainu, but the rest of the ice I saw in important places were bioroids or low str code gates so I didn't bother. I'd probably use it on a roto as well should the opportunity be there. It gives me the option of dealing with that ice easily, and should I suspect my opponent carries such ice, I could focus on recurring parasite. Just like against NEH, it's probably sensible to reserve some test runs/clone chips for imp, and d4v1d is a card to keep track of against blue sun.

You are right about the diesels, those are cards that probably should be in here (completely forgot about them) if I'm not running collective conciousness (and I'm more and more debating that as well. Initially I thought it would be a decent scavenge target, but the scavenges are kind of valuable, don't want to waste them too easily). I probably should be looking to include those in stead of conciousnesses.

mykonian · Post Post #263 (isolation #78) » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:49 am

In post 262, Oman wrote:Scavenging ANYTHING with a cost of less than 3 is suboptimal, because aesops. It's kind of another clone chip at that point which you don't need because dude you have 9 clone chips (2 LARLAs).

there always seem to be too few clone chips

mykonian · Post Post #265 (isolation #79) » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:10 am

I fear that's not really the case. Recurring goes into a couple of the utility cards, or sometimes the dogs. Against PE for deus ex, against BS d4v1d, against NEH for imp, parasite against certain ice, once happened for self modifying code because I ran like a moron, or was forced to run quickly, I forgot. There's a little safety net working because you have to keep drawing if you are missing a solution to a problem and can't find tutors either, which means some breakers that you might need in the future end up in archives. Happens more often to femme than others, but then she tends to be a target if/when sneakdoor gets scavenged. Faerie gets clone chipped occasionally.

idk, there are quite a couple of powerful cards that you'd like to clone chip. It'd be a waste to leave clone chip up.

Or in other words, when I say that there's always too few clone chips, that kind of means I'd always like more ice destruction, more cheap one shot ice breakers who don't care much about the strength of the ice, more cards that trip up combo's/take out those assets.

mykonian · Post Post #266 (isolation #80) » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:20 pm

Our very own Patrick made the cut of the 250+ large stimhack league, after which a shared score with the final winner still put him at a very amazing 2nd place.

Congrats!

mykonian · Post Post #270 (isolation #81) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:31 am

I mean, sure, I get the plan. And it might not even be terrible, just maybe easier to run out of steam in blue sun. I get how you arrived at AD given that you suggested such a path to me before.

But that ice :/

Hive doesn't do much here, caduceus is actively bad, data raven is a decent card but doesn't advance your main gameplan, swordsman is not a decent card and doesn't advance your main gameplan (and as such should not be in this deck). If you are that scared of AI's, get wraparound here. Probably run or cut a raven and run rototurret. Would also allow you to run a lotus field which isn't bad. 2 r&d ice is enough.

mykonian · Post Post #271 (isolation #82) » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:20 am

Spoiler: nbn flytrap

I did get a bit enamored with the deck after oman started talking about NBN:MN without scorched here, and although the name suggests it's the 5th, there have been 3a, 3b, 3c's etc so I really can't remember how many things changed back and forth. It has seen a couple of different cards. Anyway, new league, new decks, I decided to try this one.

And it's great fun, really. You set up very taxing servers with raven and tollbooth, even archer, and you actually make it tough for the runner to get in. You get to suprise tag them with breaking news, SEA, to closed accounts or take out that cred stacked kati. And when the tags are down, it has so many comeback plays.

But god it can't close out games against good players. Bad ones transition to tag me too early or too late, good ones get it about right, I think. And suddenly your lategame is shit, basically it shows how reliant this deck is on Data Raven and the issues that card has. It goes from awesome taxing beast to fancy piece of cardboard in no time at all. So you got the runner tagged, his bank is limited and he knows it, so here he goes desperation running. And sometimes that works, this deck hardly punishes desperation, you basically have to have drawn the better tag punishment already and hope the runner doesn't get to it.

Idk, this is me being sad. Either I pilot it badly, or I made bad choices in building the deck, or it's simply that the deck type is inferior. I'm pretty much happy with every card slot there, I think every card but PSF pulls it's weight, I like how it plays for the majority of the game... but it doesn't win. It just challenges the runner :/

mykonian · Post Post #274 (isolation #83) » Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:50 am

This thread has been dead for way too long.

Today I came back from a holiday and on the plane trip I started doodling corp decks, mostly because the two decks I enjoy playing right now are both runner ones. So I was going for something fun but playable. Through an Argus and a PE deck I got to HB:CD. This ID is obviously intriguing, but it's a bit contradictory and as such when it came out I could not find a gameplan to fit it. On the plane though, some ideas came together and this actually seemed playable.

The ID is contradictory because while a 40 card deck implies combo's would be easier to find, the corp gets fewer cards in hand to collect said combo. The reduced handsize of the runner would love to see more damage come, but all HB gets is the high priced brain damage (which isn't terribly good at killing runners). So as mentioned before, the game plan I have seen people use (throw all brain damage cards and 3 snares in a deck and hope the runner runs into everything) is a bit janky.

Anyway, the deck.

Spoiler: HB:CD

Starting out, the idea was to go with a playstyle similar to the Jinteki Harmony Medtech decks. 3 pointers and some 1 pointers to finish. I considered domestic sleepers, but we'll return to that. With a 40 card deck, you get to see your jacksons a lot more often so juggling 3 pointers should be possible. Still, you are more at risk in R&D than with jinteki (no defensive 3 pointers here!), so snares had to be the thing. To finish a kill, neural emp seemed the best tool, no need for tagging, just runs.

At this point, between being able to juggle your 3 pointers and having 4 ways of throwing 3 damage in one turn at the runner, sleepers suddenly began even looking worse than they usually are. In stead of taking the trade that the runner could only with with scoring 3 3-pointers, but telling them exactly in which turn I'm about to win (I really hate that), I wanted to be able to move the game to an essentially won position by scoring 2 self destruct chips, or landing one brain damage over the course of the game and scoring a 1 pointer (which I need anyway) at which point the odds should be seriously in my favor with the snares, the emp's and the small deck. The rest of the deck is bursty, intending to make the game short, winning by either points or flatlining, putting agendas down to win or lose it there, not by waiting for the runner to come with medium digs/noise mill/valencia blackmail recursion or general shaper bs.

I know snares and emp's are nothing new for CD, but I liked the way that the self destruct chips fit in with the 3-3-1 scoring pattern which fit with the small deck and jackson.

mykonian · Post Post #277 (isolation #84) » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:53 am

mykonian · Post Post #278 (isolation #85) » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:27 am

"bump".

First things first, Patrick became a stimhack league champion. This is pretty awesome. Yay patrick.

Second, that means there's a fresh stimhack league coming up, and for me the last one was a bit disappointing. So I've been grinding two decks lately, hopefully get in shape so I might make the top half of the players this time. Making top 100 would be a marked improvement. Anyway, the runner one is boring, the corp otoh I'm falling in love with. After the big box came out and with some experience under my belt with tagging NBN decks (see before in thread), my opinions about certain nbn cards (data raven) was called into question in scumchat. So I felt the need to make a sync deck and see how far I could come. And tbf, I was probably wrong about data raven with the new cards. The agenda setup was inspired by one of patrick's, and it's the main power of this deck.

The list underwent some pretty major changes over time as well, but some cards I really liked, others grew on me. This is the current iteration.

Spoiler: list

There are many words for the agenda setup, but the most civil is probably "unfair". Astro is astro, GFI is a lot better for you than for your opponent as well, scoring either puts a lot of pressure on the runner already. 15 min they can score, but you can get it back and conditionally they can't even score qpm! Film critic does counter these last two, but then, spending an additional cred and 3 clicks to score 1 point is uninspiring. The runner will have to score 4 agendas to win, of the 9 agendas 3 are narrow in how they can be scored (15 min has to be last, qpm you have be untagged for).

Cue shannon and the news team. News team gets taken for -1 point more often than not, not that many tag me runners around. It's adding insult to injury, but means the easiest way to victory for a runner is scoring 4 2 pointers. Shannon in practice is a mini jackson with the crucial difference that she puts it on the bottom of R&D. This practically keeps it out of play. That means the situation where the qpm's are covered by a raven, the runner has to score 4 out of the 5 available agendas.

It's still nbn though so scoring out can be tough, but initially when the runner isn't set up yet and the tagging ice slows it down you still have your windows. If it goes late, in a world with clots and film critics, you will still inevitably lose, it's taxing, but nbn style. The goal is to score two of the astro's/gfi's at which point you are close to a win, and the runner knows this. However, given the last paragraph, that's 2 of the 5 hopefully available agendas available (or 6 if news team didn't connect, but the 6th is 15 min) available. That makes desperation runs, which made it so hard to close out on the nbn mn tagging deck, way less likely to be successful.

QPM covers a lot of the issues that raven has in that stage, where the MN deck used information overload to punish an excess of tags, now there's resistor. If they take tags, suddenly there's a taxing ice. If they don't, it's a 0 to rez virtual etr (unless your opponent is sunny). This card I really underestimated, it's rarely bad.

The rest of the cards are pretty basic, I think, which leaves the ID. The fact that you have a 44 card deck makes the agenda setup sting that much more (it would be a lot worse with an additional beale, for example, then you'd need to get to 3 major agenda scores to get to a near won situation... really :/). You still get to have 15 influence, which tbf is spent rather liberally here. And having a smaller deck, the power cards do come around more often. The ability is nice, people are forced to run through raven now and then, and that's still an extra cred to remove the tag, it helps a little with siphon hits. Rarely have had to flip the ID yet (it's nice insurance though). All in all the ability is a bonus.

mykonian · Post Post #280 (isolation #86) » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:37 am

There are ways to not have to guess! (even though they are currently not very popular). Either have a form of protection so even when it is something EVIL you don't notice, or by checking beforehand with expose effects.

but in the end, there is bluffing involved even when the card is protected, there is some value in information what your opponent is playing with. So maybe you are right, and it isn't the game for you

would make me sad though, I've apparently played for years now, and I still think the game is brilliant.

mykonian · Post Post #283 (isolation #87) » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:46 am

that's a shame, there's a lot of judgement there! Bluffing is rarely 50/50, even if it may feel this way.

mykonian · Post Post #285 (isolation #88) » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:20 pm

shanba, I know you've been playing it for a while, so maybe one of the new cards would help you out?

You'd have the influence for DDoS if you'd cut your I've had worse.

mykonian · Post Post #296 (isolation #89) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:17 am

I suspect the best way is to look at the deluxe expansions. A lot of support for many an archetype on the runners side is given in creation and control. Between core and that, you have a base for non silly runner decks, where if you have a deck you fancy you wouldn't need to spend much more on datapacks to get it together, I think. Depends a bit on what you like then.

On the corp side it might be a bit harder. I don't think you can avoid playing with Jackson, so opening moves as a datapack is probably going to be a start, but then you still need to find expansions that give you practical agendas to play with, since the core is a bit narrow in that. Really depends on what you like, what corps you'd be interested in. Their big box should give you a decent agenda base to start from, I suspect. Could help you further if I knew what you liked

mykonian · Post Post #309 (isolation #90) » Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:58 am

but there aren't any fun ones like that

Where are my fun runners?

mykonian · Post Post #311 (isolation #91) » Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:12 am

well this set didn't make it worse, it could deal with batty and caprice now.

mykonian · Post Post #313 (isolation #92) » Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:23 am

yeah, but about the later, polop and councilman do help with crims worries, given how psi messes with them. There's a cost, but not an unreasonable one?

mykonian · Post Post #316 (isolation #93) » Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:55 pm

Used to be the only way, that or get the guess right. Now if the server was big enough, that wasn't going to cut it as 1/3rd of a chance to trash caprice wasn't good enough if running cost you ~10 creds. With polical operative and councilman both available influence free, you can trade "fairly" with money against the psi users, and that's something crims can do. This for the minor cost of a couple of deckslots, so obviously there's a downside. But given that everything that wants to score agendas and isn't yellow is affected by this, that should be alright. And the butcher/FA matchup is one well explored by andysucker. That should be possible.

mykonian · Post Post #323 (isolation #94) » Thu May 05, 2016 12:00 am

In post 321, Oman wrote:If anyone wants to play hit me up because I kind of don't want to take my unfamiliar janky arse into jinteki.net's tournament decks.

Don't worry about this oman, you run into a lot of people who are just trying stuff.

mykonian · Post Post #325 (isolation #95) » Thu May 05, 2016 4:35 am

yeah, not everybody is the nicest

Most are good, but some make a habit of such behaviour.

mykonian · Post Post #331 (isolation #96) » Mon May 09, 2016 10:41 pm

well he shouldn't run faust himself, so that's improving stuff perhaps?

mykonian · Post Post #336 (isolation #97) » Thu May 19, 2016 4:27 am

In post 335, Oman wrote:the Hayley deck started as "how do I make toolbox work" so that's funny

Oh I know those

As for the deck, doesn't look too outrageous. I'd always switch the numbers on tech writer/kati. You only need one kati and she's your lategame econ ensurance, you don't need her straight away. 2 or 1 if you are a fast drawing deck, imo. Tech writer otoh, you want out asap, and you can have multiples. I suspect you could happily cut a SoT and get another toy to play with. Similarly, I think you could cut a plascrete, you have your share of money, you should be able to draw into it against butcher, esspecially if the toy you'd be including was film critic (which does double duty against IG/other jinteki bs).

mykonian · Post Post #341 (isolation #98) » Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:35 am

given we talked about ST last time oman, did you see this deck?

https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/352 ... regionals-

mykonian · Post Post #345 (isolation #99) » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:42 am

So after discussing with Patrick how FFG is making some cards that could someday replace jackson, but all aren't as great, I made a case for special report. On first sight, it looks like it cycles the way Jackson does, but 4-5 cards in one click, don't have to overdraw first. It can't get rumor milled, it can't get trashed when they look in r&d, can't get councilmanned. All the good stuff, except that it costs 2 influence so it's probably for NBN only. So coming that far and obviously wanting to build something sensible with it, I went with the archetype that makes Jackson the most vunerable (and should play decently given how slow the main corps are): NBN FA. It doesn't have too much ice, r&d lock is a potential issue, Jackson could get trashed. Since I wanted to avoid jackson at first, NEH was off the table (since it'd argue for jackson), I didn't want to do tracing/tagging because every other runner has a bunch of hate for that in the deck, meaning I ended up with Spark.

After a handful of games it was unignorable that jackson was better than special order in one respect: it could reshuffle those biotics one paid deerly for in influence. So back in they went. But special report was faster, quite a bit better at actually improving your hand.

Spoiler: Spark FA

mykonian · Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:11 am

We have a champion!

The mishmash netrunner introduction tournament was won by

FROZEN ANGEL

mykonian · Post Post #350 (isolation #101) » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:11 am

idk, there's a lot of asset heavy decks and tagging, criminals are played a lot. Over mumbad I feel there were quite a couple of decks popping up.

also, don't worry, it gets better:

mykonian · Post Post #352 (isolation #102) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:21 am

buuuump.

Originally designed as a way to find a good home for CI fund (because I wanted to play with it), it had to be in a Weyland deck which would build a remote (bye gagarin), would want the money advantage (kill deck, but not babw), and wouldn't be porous (bye GRNDL, and any deck with hostiles). BoN kill without bad pub was what I ended up with, easier to build than argus given a remote and given the restriction of no hostiles.

Spoiler: SEA BoN

After that, given it's BoN-kill, taxing clicks is as efficient as taxing creds. Enigma over Quandary then. Cortex lock to deal with runners facechecking "harmless" Weyland ice and making sure the deck is set up for a head start to score an early agenda. The heavy lifting in the deck was always done by fire wall and changeling, they are taxing and don't need much support. With the coming of mausolus now, a late game taxing ice has been added to the deck, and since it's technically usually economical to let mausolus fire, the removal of the tag is at least some tempo loss. It's a perfect fit (and much more practical than the 1x hadrians that the list had before).

The deck doesn't tend to be overly rich, ice destruction is always going to be an issue with advanceble ice. Criminals nowadays with marrón have very good ways to avoid actually being killed, but then they are the most susceptible to struggle with the random damage. Otherwise, it plays rather straightforward. The dream is to score The Cleaners, in which case the prisecs really start to sting. It's not unreasonable to score it. There's something to be said for a 3-1 split in the 5/3's, but then high risk investment is very solid on it's own in setting up your kill combo.

Earlier tries with the deck went with different kill combos. Punitive is tempting with so many 3/5's, and on top of that the extra sting from the cleaners, but the deck is unable to keep the runners economy down to such an extend that it can win two traces, and it needs to find 2 out of 3 combo pieces. It doesn't work. Midseasons puts you into a bind. To run 2, which you want to get the combo up before the runner has stolen 2 agendas (and your combo dies), cortex lock has to go, yet that's an incredibly potent card, which is impossible to replace. The deck suffered from less effective ice, and to a certain point the deck isn't able to actually combo to a kill every time an agenda gets stolen. It's not perfect, but SEA at least has them worried, without going all in on a plan the deck can't pull off. It's more outlasting and outscoring rather than geared towards the kill.

And idk, I think it's fun!