Kingmaker II-Game Over

[Yosarian2]

Vote: Yosarian2

I think I picked up on something when skimming over his posts. I'll return to it later (probably late tomorrow afternoon), but I'm painfully short on time tonight.?

Eh? If you suspect me, then why are you following my lead when it comes to Pooky, Bird, and Tomez? I'm not getting set up here, am I?

Yosarian: What inspired your change in opinion regarding Phoebus between Post 376 and Post 423?

What change in opinion?


Post 376:

Ok, some quick thoughts on the people on the king's list of exectuion.

Pablito: His constant defense/buddying up to Glork is a minor scum tell, and he hasn't done much else.

Bird111: all he's done is vote Gork and Pablito for no good reason. Clearly :not helpfull: at best.

Phobus: I really can't get a good read on him at the moment. His shameless bandwagoning dosn't look good, but I'm not sure if it's a scumtell at this point. More suspicious is his refusal to contribute in any real way, with helpful comments like "still nothing to add at this point".

CDB: Don't really see anything too suspicious about him at this point.

I mention that I didn't feel like I had a good read on him, but also say that I find his constant lack of contribution and contentless posts suspicious. I also think it's fairly clear from that post that none of those four people was jumping out at me as uber-scummy.

I voted for him in post 423, and then when asked why, I said

Eh...with the deadline coming up, I figured I should vote for the person on the execution list I felt most suspicious of. I honestly don't have a very strong suspicion on anyone at this point, but out of the 4 people the king said he's thinking about executing, you're at the top of my list.

Basically, like I said in an earlier post, my general impression so far is that you've been mostly :nothelpfull:, and the one time you did contribute content it was to shamlessly bandwagon without good reasons.

There was no real change in my reasons for suspecting him. He still had not posted any real content other then the one "bandwagon everyone for no reason" post. Again, as I made clear, I still didn't really have a very strong suspicious about him, but out of the four people on the king's LOE at that point I liked his lynch the best.

[Glork]

Vote: Yosarian2

I think I picked up on something when skimming over his posts. I'll return to it later (probably late tomorrow afternoon), but I'm painfully short on time tonight.?

Eh? If you suspect me, then why are you following my lead when it comes to Pooky, Bird, and Tomez? I'm not getting set up here, am I?

Follow

your

lead? I've been calling Pooky scum since the middle of Day One. Heck, when you suggested offing a lurker such as Vaughn, I mentioned Pooky again and explained why he was a better choice than Vaughn. Also, though it can't be verified, I could have sworn that I was the first to vocally reject the Bird-is-scum theory as presented by MBL. As for Twomz... *shrug* so we sortof agree on that point. Twomz is actually lowest on my list of people-who-might-be-executed.

Phobus: I really can't get a good read on him at the moment. His shameless bandwagoning dosn't look good, but I'm not sure if it's a scumtell at this point. More suspicious is his refusal to contribute in any real way, with helpful comments like "still nothing to add at this point".

You seemed awfully wishy-washy in this post. Saying that you thought he didn't look good, but couldn't commit to such an inkling (even rejecting your own feelings by saying "I'm not sure if it's a scumtell") feels very uncharacteristic of you.

I mention that I didn't feel like I had a good read on him, but also say that I find his constant lack of contribution and contentless posts suspicious. I also think it's fairly clear from that post that none of those four people was jumping out at me as uber-scummy.

So why comment on four people if none of them strike you as particularly scummy? If you're going to make a post and judge some players, wouldn't it be more helpful to make some "I think this guy is scum" posts rather than "I kinda almost suspect this person, but not really because I can't read him" posts?

I voted for him in post 423, and then when asked why, I said

Eh...with the deadline coming up, I figured I should vote for the person on the execution list I felt most suspicious of. I honestly don't have a very strong suspicion on anyone at this point, but out of the 4 people the king said he's thinking about executing, you're at the top of my list.

Basically, like I said in an earlier post, my general impression so far is that you've been mostly :nothelpfull:, and the one time you did contribute content it was to shamlessly bandwagon without good reasons.

There was no real change in my reasons for suspecting him. He still had not posted any real content other then the one "bandwagon everyone for no reason" post. Again, as I made clear, I still didn't really have a very strong suspicious about him, but out of the four people on the king's LOE at that point I liked his lynch the best.

So basically you fence-sat until near-deadline, then picked someone who you "couldn't get a good read on" because he was on the king's List of Execution? Again, this seems very unlike the Yosarian I'm used to seeing. I'm finding it very hard to believe that someone with your talent and experience "[doesn't] have a very strong suspicion on anyone" after nearly 20 pages' worth of discussion.

[Glork]

Can we get

Modprods

on Pariah and AmeliaSlay, please?
Can we also have a

Vote Count

?


Thanks,
King Glork

[Yosarian2]

Follow

your

lead? I've been calling Pooky scum since the middle of Day One. Heck, when you suggested offing a lurker such as Vaughn, I mentioned Pooky again and explained why he was a better choice than Vaughn. Also, though it can't be verified, I could have sworn that I was the first to vocally reject the Bird-is-scum theory as presented by MBL. As for Twomz... *shrug* so we sortof agree on that point. Twomz is actually lowest on my list of people-who-might-be-executed.

(shrug) I think I was the first one who attacked Twomz and Pooky for the way they joined of the Bird bandwagon, and especally Twomz for some other scummy looking posts where he was pushing it with craplogic, and so I was under the impression you were basically following me there.

You seemed awfully wishy-washy in this post. Saying that you thought he didn't look good, but couldn't commit to such an inkling (even rejecting your own feelings by saying "I'm not sure if it's a scumtell") feels very uncharacteristic of you.

I mention that I didn't feel like I had a good read on him, but also say that I find his constant lack of contribution and contentless posts suspicious. I also think it's fairly clear from that post that none of those four people was jumping out at me as uber-scummy.

So why comment on four people if none of them strike you as particularly scummy? If you're going to make a post and judge some players, wouldn't it be more helpful to make some "I think this guy is scum" posts rather than "I kinda almost suspect this person, but not really because I can't read him" posts?
[/quote]

This game was crawling, the king had make a LOE basically out of desperation in order to try to make something happen and still no one was saying anything. I didn't really feel like I had much to say, but I knew that if i wanted to help the town I had to do something and say something and try to get the conversation moving, so I went back, re-read all the posts by the 4 people on the king's list of execution, and made comments in order to try to get conversation going.

So basically you fence-sat until near-deadline, then picked someone who you "couldn't get a good read on" because he was on the king's List of Execution? Again, this seems very unlike the Yosarian I'm used to seeing. I'm finding it very hard to believe that someone with your talent and experience "[doesn't] have a very strong suspicion on anyone" after nearly 20 pages' worth of discussion.

(shrug) If the king says he's going to execute person A, B, C, or D, and a deadline is coming up, I'd expect everyone to weigh in and say which one of the four of them they would execute. Just like if a deadline's coming up in a normal game and it's clear that either person A, B, or C will be lynched, I will usually vote for one of the three of them.

Besides, while Phobes' behavior hadn't really changed, the fact that he was still being :not helpfull: with a deadline coming up and after I and others had already made an attempt to poke at him and get him to contribute made me feel better about lynching him.

[BrianMcQueso]

King Glork: PookyTheMagicalBear, MrBuddyLee, Pablito, Twomz, Yosarian2

Prods sent, as requested.

Ameliaslay (0):
bird1111 (1): Mert, TWomz, PookyTheMagicalBear
cardb0ardb0x (0):
CrashTextDummie (1): petroleumjelly, StallingChamp, Twomz, UberTimmy
Dead Rikimaru (0): pablito
Der Hammer (0):
Fritzler (1):
Mastermind of Sin (0):
Mert (1): Twomz, PookyTheMagicalBear
MrBuddyLee (0+K): UberTimmy, Fritzler
Nightson (0): Twomz
pablito (1+K): UberTimmy, CrashTextDummie
Pariah (0):
petroleumjelly (1): PookyTheMagicalBear
Phoebus (0): bird1111
PookyTheMagicalBear (3+K)
spectrumvoid (0): StallingChamp, ubertimmy
StallingChamp (2):
Twomz (5+K):
UberTimmy (4):
Yosarian2 (0+K): Twomz

[Ameliaslay]

Hi everyone, I was under the misconception that I had been replaced... But here I am, in the need of doing a major read-through, and probably will get a post in around Wed or Thurs.

[Glork]

Unvote Pablito, MBL, Twomz
FoS: MBL, Twomz

[pablito]

vote: Yosarian2

. I'm not liking the defense right now, but it's possible that he's just misguided because of his lack of comprehension of the game timeline. Also I may be biased because I'm totally buying all of Glork's arguments on Yos.

but

unvote: crashtextdummie

, because I think his attack on PJ seemed well intentioned but the reasons just aren't there. Nonetheless, I don't feel there was scummy motive behind his attack and thus the unvote. I still find his actions suspect, though.

[Glork]

I still find his actions suspect, though.

...which actions might those be, and why do you find them suspect?

[pablito]

his PJ vote. Still feels unsettling, but the current interpretation I have is that a reasonable pro-town voter would have still made the same argument and vote.

oh and it's also suspect that he keeps on being the brunt of fritz's vote, so that gotta mean he's somewhat scummy.

[pablito]

oh yeah, and in the series of posts where we kept responding to each other...those felt right. so that's kinda warranting an unvote. but I've had this tendency to unvote early with votes on scum in other games and I ended up returning to them after all. So most early unvotes for me will still retain some doubt.

[Glork]

*twitch*

Interesting.

[Yosarian2]

vote: Yosarian2

. I'm not liking the defense right now, but it's possible that he's just misguided because of his lack of comprehension of the game timeline. Also I may be biased because I'm totally buying all of Glork's arguments on Yos.

...what arguments would those be, exactally?

[Twomz]

Woohoo i'm winning... wait, that's a bad thing .

Anyone have any actual questions for me, or is this another round of "oh, Twomz is acting scummy again, he sounds like a good lynch *winks at scumpartners*"?

[spectrumvoid]

Aaand I suppose since someone brought up Fritzler, it's fairly apparent that he's just clinging onto a character theme- i.e. vote crashtextdummie ARR ARR ARR CAPTIAL LETTERS. This is neither helpful nor, um, productive. I really wanted to use a neither/nor sentence there. If he does this in every game, it's probably a good strategy for *him.*

To anyone who's been in these players' games, do they always do this...?

I think so. I've skimmed through a little of his games. But he does occasionally post analysis.

[spectrumvoid]

Phobus: I really can't get a good read on him at the moment. His shameless bandwagoning dosn't look good, but I'm not sure if it's a scumtell at this point. More suspicious is his refusal to contribute in any real way, with helpful comments like "still nothing to add at this point".

You seemed awfully wishy-washy in this post. Saying that you thought he didn't look good, but couldn't commit to such an inkling (even rejecting your own feelings by saying "I'm not sure if it's a scumtell") feels very uncharacteristic of you.

I think you misrepresented Yos here. He said
A: he can't get a good read on ph on the bandwagoning issue, because he's not sure if his bandwagoning is a scumtell.
C: he thinks phoebus not contributing to this game is 'more suspicious'.

This explains pretty clearly what Yos thinks of Phoebus, and why. I don't see how this makes him wishy-washy. And there's nothing wrong with not having a 100% confirmed stand on someone. (I got this from the 'not commiting' point.) For example, just look at what some people, myself included, think of bird and MBL's accusation (was it MBL?), especially the uncertainty involvled.

Take note of my sig addition.

For the blatant misreprentation,

vote: Glork

I know this is Kingmaker, but this makes it clear where I stand.

[Glork]

Here's why he was wishy-washy.

He says he cannot get a good read on Phoebus.
He says that bandwagoning "does not look good," indicating that he finds it suspicious.
He says that he is not sure if it's a scumtell, indicating that he doesn't really find it suspicious yet -- a contradiction to his prior statement that he finds Phoebus' it suspicious.
He says that Phoebus' refusal to contribute is suspicious -- which would appear to contradict his initial statement that he cannot get a read on Phoebus.


I'm not saying that not having a firm stance is scummy. I'm saying that making conflicting comments within the same post while analyzing your thoughts on a player is scummy. Had Yosarian said something like "I think A is scummy, but I think B is pretty pro-town, so I don't have a good read on him yet," I wouldn't have a problem. Instead Yosarian points out two things he finds suspicious, and mentions that he can't read Phoebus and that he's "not sure" if Phoebus' suspicious behavior is scummy. Seems to me that suspicious behavior is, well... inherently scummy.

[Phoebus]

I believe I was

voting pablito

previously as well.
And now...

vote: Yosarian

Here you go. More...gut. *shrug*

[Der Hammer]

Hello,

I am now in the game and will post once I've read up to speed.

[bird1111]

Unvote Mert

, his logic has improved a lot; and poor logic was the main reason for my vote

Vote Yosarian2

as like Glork, I don't like his wishwashiness in his section about Phoebus in post 416. Also in 547; after Glork requested that everyone state their stances of me, Yosarian said that he had been against my bandwagon, which contridicted his last post that involved me, also 416, made it seem like he was neutral or slightly for my bandwagon.

Glork, why the unvotes?

[Phoebus]

confirm vote burd

burn the burd!!

[Yosarian2]

Here's why he was wishy-washy.

He says he cannot get a good read on Phoebus.
He says that bandwagoning "does not look good," indicating that he finds it suspicious.
He says that he is not sure if it's a scumtell, indicating that he doesn't really find it suspicious yet -- a contradiction to his prior statement that he finds Phoebus' it suspicious
He says that Phoebus' refusal to contribute is suspicious -- which would appear to contradict his initial statement that he cannot get a read on Phoebus.


I'm not saying that not having a firm stance is scummy. I'm saying that making conflicting comments within the same post while analyzing your thoughts on a player is scummy. Had Yosarian said something like "I think A is scummy, but I think B is pretty pro-town, so I don't have a good read on him yet," I wouldn't have a problem. Instead Yosarian points out two things he finds suspicious, and mentions that he can't read Phoebus and that he's "not sure" if Phoebus' suspicious behavior is scummy. Seems to me that suspicious behavior is, well... inherently scummy.

When I said it "does not look good", I meant exactally what I said; it looked bad. That it, I wasn't sure if it really was a scum tell, but I could understand in any case why people were voting for him for it, becuase it looks bad.

I wasn't getting get a good "read" on him; that is my gut wasn't really giving me a strong feeling one way or the other. Which could have been because he wasn't really saying anything.

There really were not any conflicting comments in my post.

[Yosarian2]

Unvote Mert

, his logic has improved a lot; and poor logic was the main reason for my vote

Vote Yosarian2

as like Glork, I don't like his wishwashiness in his section about Phoebus in post 416. Also in 547; after Glork requested that everyone state their stances of me, Yosarian said that he had been against my bandwagon, which contridicted his last post that involved me, also 416, made it seem like he was neutral or slightly for my bandwagon.

Glork, why the unvotes?

Were you even reading the game before the crash?

I spent quite a bit of time and energy defending you and attacking the people attacking you today, after your analysis post. Those posts are gone, but I'm sure anyone paying attention to the game remembers them; we had actually gotten quite a large bandwagon on Twomz that I started all because of his attack on you. Those posts are gone, but I'm sure anyone paying attention remembers them. Were you paying any attention to the game?

In post 416 I said you had not contributed, because you had not. When i defended you today, you had contributed.

[Yosarian2]

Oh, and

vote:pablito

. Yesterday I had the feeling he was trying to get on Glork's "good side" so that he could manipulate him when he became king, and today it seems he's trying to manipulate Glork into killing a good guy by just saying "I agree with everything Glork said and disagree with everything Yos said" without actually responding to anything or giving any reasons.

And meanwhile, Phoebus is still pushing bad bandwagons with absolutly no reason.

fos:phoebus

[petroleumjelly]

My bird vote seems to have poofed during the crash.

Vote: Bird1111

.

Also, I do not agree with Glork's case against Yosarian2. At the time Yos made his post about his thoughts on those four players you mentioned (Pablito, Bird1111, Phoebus, and ChannelDelibird), I was trying to get the town to comment on those players in particular so that I could review the responses (and this context is quite relevant as to why he would talk about people he was not suspicious of). My stance on his posts were that he was not too convinced with any of the people on my List at the time, but later he thought it was necessary to differentiate who (if any) of those four he would be most comfortable in seeing an execution on so that he could have a more direct say in the Execution if I was to limit my boundaries to only those four. I also am not seeing the contradiction you seem to think is there.

Also,

Vote: UberTimmy

, although he has apparently not posted since October 5th, and likely needs a prodding and/or replacement. I would like to hear more about actual thoughts, rather than him simply adding to the vote counts.