Mini 1404 - Monopoly Mafia - Game Over

[Mehdi2277]

I was checking the type of card. The difference between chance and chest cards is minimal.

And I'd only claim with a hammer intent. Nothing less.

[SafetyDance]

So Jal, Cheery - problems with following the latest table?

[Cheery Dog]

I still don't like predetermined watcher targets, but me doing my action in either scenario is fine as is.

[SafetyDance]

Yeah it opens up an easily messed-with target but I suppose one way or the other it allows something to get through, which is the important thing.

Since Monkey isn't even trying now, just need Jal to confirm she's fine and has no probs with it.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Interesting pre-script to this is that this is where your vote is now, but responding mainly because I'd like to say a few things about it.

Do you not understand how vastly different they are?

One is (if I understand correctly) someone claiming X-shot Doc as thier role under lynch pressure.

The other is someone claiming an already used 1-shot Doc as a gained ability under absolutely no pressure.

Context is

huge.

I don't understand why you want to blindly trust role info (which we have mod confimation may have been fucked with) instead of lynching off of scumhunting.

I trust absolutely what info I have, not anyone elses. I see a massive contradiction to what I have seen at night, I am going to bring that up. That

is

scumhunting. Mehdi's claim is still dodgy, "with context".

Look at what we have in card claims:
2 Trackers, from both utilities. No counter-claims in roles or deeds
2 Watchers, both from purples. No counter-claims in roles or deeds
2 Vigs, both from dark-blues. No counter-claims in roles or deeds
1 Deed-counter from light-blue(green?). No counter-claims
1 unspecified power role from 2 oranges. No counter-claims

2 cards back into circulation at night, both claimed. 4 cards back in circulation during the day. All claimed. No counter-claims here.

Looking at all that and what is the most dodgy? What stands out as the softest claim?

Now before all this, we have the claim of a one-shot doc card being used. I'm not going to try and understand if maf, why he would try to claim it, but it's a claim that means relatively nothing in the scheme of things and if he had no prior knowledge of what roles are out there with the cards (as evidenced by #947), a claim that couldn't really be proved, except for the "misfortune" of being tracked. As to what gain, who's to say otherwise that if left uncontested the overall view of him would be pro-town, especially as he looks like he tried to save someone?

There's also a few things about his overall play too.

If Mehdi was roleblocked (or re-directed, or bussed etc), and it was by someone town, why would they not come out and claim so?

He's also claiming to have breadcrumbed a PR yet not quoting it or mentioning it again despite having been at L-1.

And I still think something like this is a problem:

Spoiler: Post #1127

And that same scum miller got nominated for a scummy. Kind of means something and if you want an opinion of a non townie who read the game I commented and said sala played pretty great. Policy lynching millers is a bad idea if you don't care much about their play.

I'll check the cards I got later, but I've gotten 2 already (one was at night and the other I mentioned during the day before).

Where did gnr mention the kills like that in the OP?

I think this needs to be clarified. How'd you get a card at night? Lurker's two cards have been claimed.

It's been clarified already. It's referring to the chance card that was a get out of jail safe card. The other being I got money during the day yesterday (I think inherited 100 dollars)

Because if you used a card's action at night, why would you need to go back and check it the day after, especially when you've supposedly used it up. Doesn't sit right.

So I think it all adds up to something that needs clarification which I don't see happening without a flip. Unless you think I'm lying which, presuming since that's where your vote lies and you consider me important enough to watch, doesn't seem to be the case.

I don't have a problem with bringing it up, nor do I mind people voting Mehdi due to things outside of Night Actions as well as the track. (obviously) What I don't like is the people who I feel are voting him mostly or entirely based on

just

the track.

His initial claim's not dodgy, it's fine. It's what he's done after the claim and aside from the claim that's sketch.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm a vanilla townie. And if you lose because you give Boardwalk to a scum player you only have yourselves to blame.

[Jake from State Farm]

Right, cause if you are town it's obviously our fault and you did nothing wrong

[SafetyDance]

Thanks for your help Monkey.

@Mod: Request prod for Jal, please.

[guille2015]

Sorry, but where did monkey slip?

I've already explained that. Read the damn thread

Sorry to be so stuborned, but I just went and checked with your ISO. And you did not explain how monkey slipped. Or at least we have a different definition for slip.

You reference two "slips" on Monkey. 1st is that he did not answer your questions. 2nd is that he claimed to have recieved the card at an unusual time. The first 1 is not a slip by definition but it is reason to get suspicious though. The second was modconfirmed to have happened as Monkey explained it. So there was no slip.

The reason I asked is that by post 1510 you ascertain that Monkey Slipped and I disagree.
So, I repeat again. Where had Monkey Slipped?

[Jake from State Farm]

dude has ignored my questions and has showed up and put what he thought was an L-1 vote while speaking nonsense, I don't care if you like my vote, he's basically slipped imo

2 slips explained in 1 post. Glad you are reading closely guile.

[Jake from State Farm]

And guile wonders why he's on the short list if vig targets...

[Jake from State Farm]

*of

[guille2015]

Guille what do you think of jake's replace out and replace in reason? Or how he'd tried to connect his role to things without claiming it? A lot of the tbg town read is similar thoughts on what to do and reads. As for reads safety > jal > tbg > cheery > jake > mhork > xis > guille > monkey. Guille you're following monkey on something when he himself rarely explains his reads and has been vague on everything.

I think nothing of it. No reason for it to be a lie and it is no indication of alignment. Why ask this? Nobody questioned this till now.

Fine I see your reads.

"Or how he'd tried to connect his role to things without claiming it?" I missed this. When did this happen?

I am not following Monkey on anything. That we have converged on the same conclusions is coincidental. There are things in monkey's play that makes me think that he is town. Primarily his consistency and his writing that makes me think that the way he presented himself at entry into this game as genuine. I could be wrong though, and he has done some things that make him scummy. Primarily his appeal to emotion, appeal to fear and some reasons for voting that I find unsubstantiated. If he is scum, then Madhi and Jake are likely to be town. And that's something that I am having a hard time to swallow.

[guille2015]

dude has ignored my questions and has showed up and put what he thought was an L-1 vote while speaking nonsense, I don't care if you like my vote, he's basically slipped imo

2 slips explained in 1 post. Glad you are reading closely guile.

I saw that, and that is not a slip. That is scummy behavior but it is not a slip. What lurker did was a slip. The card thing was an apparent slip,until it was confirmed true.

[Jake from State Farm]

Scumslips are things town wouldn't do and scum does. Those are both scum slips. You disagree? You are entitled.

He's stil ignoring questions, he's not doing anything to help town. He thinks he has found scum but isn't doing anything to convince people to vote with him and he isn't doing anything but waiving his vig claim around to defend himself.

I'm not changing my vote, and contrary to his opinion, if he's town it's nobody's fault but his own.

[guille2015]

Scumslips are things town wouldn't do and scum does. Those are both scum slips. You disagree? You are entitled.

He's stil ignoring questions, he's not doing anything to help town. He thinks he has found scum but isn't doing anything to convince people to vote with him and he isn't doing anything but waiving his vig claim around to defend himself.

I'm not changing my vote, and contrary to his opinion, if he's town it's nobody's fault but his own.

But what he has done that you tag as a scumslip is something that Town has been seen to do, especially the stubborn type town that Monkey appears to be.

I concede to you that your second paragraph is enough reason to lynch Monkey. It would seem that monkey is ignoring questions because he thinks he has already answered them though. At least that's what I am getting at. Questions about his change in reads has been answered by him, though. The thing is that normally I don't see scum blatantly ignoring questions. Hence why I have a bitter taste for this lynch.

[guille2015]

I am in agreement with the established plan. After reading the last 10 pages or so I concede that the best lynch today is Monkey. His flip will be the most informative. I am fine facing the vig. Given how many people seem to not like me, getting me out of this game would be ideal. I believe the following is the most current suggestion for the plan:

If Monkey is Town:

Role Owner	Card Name	Role Power	Target
Safety Dance	Electric Company	Tracker	???
Cheery Dog	Waterworks	Tracker	???
Safety Dance	Mediterranean Avenue	Watcher	Jal
Jake	Baltic Avenue	Watcher	Safety Dance
Jal	Park Place	Vig	Mehdi
Whoever gets Monkey's boardwalk	Boardwalk	Vig	Guille (if Guille gets it, Xis)

If Monkey is Scum:

Role Owner	Card Name	Role Power	Target
Safety Dance	Electric Company	Tracker	Mehdi
Cheery Dog	Waterworks	Tracker	Jake
Safety Dance	Mediterranean Avenue	Watcher	Cheery Dog
Jake	Baltic Avenue	Watcher	Safety Dance
Jal	Park Place	Vig	No Kill
Whoever gets Monkey's boardwalk	Boardwalk	Vig	No Kill

[Jal]

I will follow the plan. Kill Mehdi if town, no one if scum.

I'm at odds with Monkey's slot a bit. He keeps mentioning three scum which is really weird.

Oh by the way, scum slips are mostly bull shit and those aren't scum slips. I have, as scum, accused town of scum slips to get them lynched. So did my partner. In a poly game, someone called their outed lover a "null" read with a hint of being scum earlier in a paragraph, indicating he might have been scum who hadn't paired off yet. Yeah, he was town.

[SafetyDance]

Yeah I agree with guille and jal, just because you think something is a scum tell doesn't make it a scum slip and tells are rather subjective (eye of the beholder) so having your own opinion shouldn't mean flippantly accusing people of lack of reading.

Anyway, since we're all on the same page now.

Vote:MonkeyMan576

[Mehdi2277]

Guille what do you think of jake's replace out and replace in reason? Or how he'd tried to connect his role to things without claiming it? A lot of the tbg town read is similar thoughts on what to do and reads. As for reads safety > jal > tbg > cheery > jake > mhork > xis > guille > monkey. Guille you're following monkey on something when he himself rarely explains his reads and has been vague on everything.

I think nothing of it. No reason for it to be a lie and it is no indication of alignment. Why ask this? Nobody questioned this till now.

Fine I see your reads.

"Or how he'd tried to connect his role to things without claiming it?" I missed this. When did this happen?

I am not following Monkey on anything. That we have converged on the same conclusions is coincidental. There are things in monkey's play that makes me think that he is town. Primarily his consistency and his writing that makes me think that the way he presented himself at entry into this game as genuine. I could be wrong though, and he has done some things that make him scummy. Primarily his appeal to emotion, appeal to fear and some reasons for voting that I find unsubstantiated. If he is scum, then Madhi and Jake are likely to be town. And that's something that I am having a hard time to swallow.

Since I think it's a town tell to just want to replace back in after an operation. As for connect the role to things he never once claimed watcher to my knowledge, but has hinted it for a while now.

[Jake from State Farm]

I will follow the plan. Kill Mehdi if town, no one if scum.

I'm at odds with Monkey's slot a bit. He keeps mentioning three scum which is really weird.

Oh by the way, scum slips are mostly bull shit and those aren't scum slips. I have, as scum, accused town of scum slips to get them lynched. So did my partner. In a poly game, someone called their outed lover a "null" read with a hint of being scum earlier in a paragraph, indicating he might have been scum who hadn't paired off yet. Yeah, he was town.

We all have definitions of scumtells. Of course they are subjective to each person but I've seen nothing to suggest he's town.

[Jal]

His belief in three scum may be it bleh. I am put off by just about the entire town wanting to lynch him although his lack of responding for an entire day while posting in other threads makes me think scum.

To throw it out there, I was wondering who got the cards during the day to indicate if Cheery may have been lying about having three cards or someone was lying in general about receiving a card since it's mod confirmed Monkey did receive some card at the beginning of D1.

[Jake from State Farm]

I thought everyone got their card at the beginning of the day

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh wait, safety got lurker's ec card at night.

[Mehdi2277]

Guille got lurker's other card at night I believe.