Micro 121: SS9 (Game over!)

[theslimer3]

I'll be honest, I didn't read anything. And if I didn't read the game thus far (got bored) then I'd mess this game all up xD

[Cheery Dog]

So you messed the game up?

bad slime.

[theslimer3]

Dx I read it this time, I swear

[Wickedestjr]

The post 9 scumteam theory was a joke, for anyone who is not aware. I was hoping it would help get the ball rolling.

Post 12- Lincolm, why did you vote for me in this post? And do you feel that this vote was more helpful/productive than your vote for Kmd? If so, why?

maybe with all votes, put in parenthesis who you think should be killed if the lynch is on a supersaint. We basically have two chances to lynch scum each day. the lynch target could be scum. If not, they could kill scum. If we effectively have a second lynch count, we can control both chances by consensus.

I agree with this. If we can execute this strategy effectively, then we essentially have eight lynches to kill three scum. Two ideas I'd like to add about lynching procedure;
1. If we are lynching player A, then we have to choose player B to hammer under the assumption that player A is town. Just as an example, if player B is the next most popular candidate for death mostly because he seems connected to obvscum player A, then it would not make sense to have player B hammer. There's one other interesting idea I had regarding how to determine the player that hammers, but I still need to think about it- also it would be a more effective idea in later days.
2. We need to be fairly quick in deciding who we lynch. I see two situations which could turn out badly if we cannot reach a decision in time. a.) A mafia goon on the end of the largest bandwagon unvotes just before deadline to cause the death of the next-to-last voter. b.) Somebody refuses to hammer not long before deadline.

I personally believe we should have our lynch decided 3 or 4 days before deadline.


Post 16- Lincolm, you say there is at least one scum on your bandwagon (Cheery Dog, Kmd, Lincolm, Blueberry). Why did you say that? The only serious non-Lincolm votes on this bandwagon were from Kmd and Blueberry- are you saying you think at least one of those two people are mafia?

Post 17- I'm not a fan of this post from Blueberry. Firstly, how did the quotes from Lincolm imply that he was mafia? Secondly, what kind of answer were you expecting?

I believe the ones who were fast to call it a joke are the most likely ones to be scum though - town could have let it go to see the reactions. On this note, Blueberry and kmd are the ones who instantly treated it as a joke, with kmd not only calling it a joke, but including it in reasons in order to vote you (Lincolm).

Other things about kmd:

-The inclusion of the last paragraph in 13 looks pre-prepared, something that he had thought of posting in his first serious post.

-kmd was the first one to start the "Why (name)?" chain - Why did you need to ask for explaining regarding a RVS vote?

Wisdom, I have a hard time believing that you believe in the first paragraph of this quote, considering Kmd's vote for Lincolm was in part due to Lincolm's reaction to my joke. Also, can you elaborate on the bolded point, please?

Post 40- Cheery Dog, my point was that Lincolm's vote looked strange because there was a space between the word 'vote' and the colon. People use vote tags all the time. I've revealed that my scumteam theory was not serious.

Post 52- Wisdom, why do you find Lincolm suspicious? Also, you've switched your vote from Kmd (the person who started the bandwagon on Lincolm) to Lincolm. Do you think they are both mafia?

@Cheery Dog- You say Wisdom is suspicious for agreeing with a point that you only half support. Can you explain why that is? You and Wisdom had a conversation about it on page 3, but I did not understand your arguments.

Post 83- It bothers me that I don't know who Huntress suspects. Huntress, who do you suspect? Also, why is eagerness from Wisdom suspicious?

Post 86- Kmd4390, do you think it's suspicious that Lincolm took my post 9 seriously? Also, why ignore Cheery Dog's similar view?

My plan for town to control hammers is the kind of thing where scum might go to a QT and say "hey we have to shoot this down. Someone vote him". I'm disturbed that it's not even being discussed. I'm guessing the other scum won't talk about my plan negatively because they don't want to be too obvious and all in agreement in thread.

How likely do you think this is? Also, do you see Wisdom and Lincolm as potential partners? Or are they just individually suspicious to you?

Woah I just realized that this is a 3 scum in a 9 player game that has town vengekills. This is over poweredly scumsided O.O

I disagree with this completely. If we use the supersaint mechanic as a second lynch, then we basically have eight lynches to hit three mafia.

@theslimer3- Do you suspect anyone other than Lincolm?


Some thoughts-
I think Lincolm is probably town. I've seen scum fake fearlessness before, but Lincolm's self vote and response to the pressure seems a little over the top to be a scum gambit. I believe that he doesn't care about the negative attention. I would like to know who he suspects and would like a response to my questions, but as of right now I'd be surprised if he turned out to be scum.

Cheery Dog's fake hammer was pro-town but I'm hesitant to call him town because IIRC I've only ever seen scum do the same thing. However, I think it is townish how, later on, Cheery Dog discredits his own fake hammer- if he was trying to look like town, then I don't see why he would do that. Overall, neutral leaning town.

Blueberry looks pretty scummy. If you read him in isolation, you'll see he's been active. However, he's pretty much coasted by on his Lincolm vote, asked questions, and hasn't really given any other thoughts since. I also had issue with his post 17.

Wisdom looks even more suspicious. His vote for Kmd4390 seemed poorly justified and his vote for Lincolm looks opportunistic. Also, I find it strange that he has suspicion of both Kmd4390 and Lincolm given their interactions.

Having said that, I'm going to

Unvote. Vote: Wisdom

.

[Wickedestjr]

When you called out Blueberry for confirming last, what did you exactly mean by it? There's different reasons for people to want to call out non-confirmed last.

I voted Blueberry for confirming last... for lack of a better reason. Usually at game start I would make a weak accusation regarding a previous post but there were none. I'm aware of the fact that scum have day talk and thus no motivation to prolong the confirmation stage, but I was also just anxious for the game to start- I haven't played in months. Why do you ask?

I'll be honest,

I didn't read anything

. And if I didn't read the game thus far (got bored) then I'd mess this game all up xD

Dx

I read it this time

, I swear

...did you or did you not read the thread?

[Malakittens]

Basically, whenever I vote people for confirming last it's to go for reactions so I wanted to see if you went for an opening reaction test rather than just doing it because he didn't confirm or what not.

[Cheery Dog]

@Cheery Dog- You say Wisdom is suspicious for agreeing with a point that you only half support. Can you explain why that is? You and Wisdom had a conversation about it on page 3, but I did not understand your arguments.

I find eagerness to give points against someone to be a scumtell, and when someone gives a half-good reason for someone else to be scum, and then someone agrees with them on it without really going further into why, I find that the second person is just joining in to set tempers aflare with possibly two townies.

My reaction call on Lincolm about the fakehammer was weak, though non-normal reactions about saying that's not a hammer would probably come from the people that hadn't posted yet, but I probably wouldn't have got anything from that.

[Lincolm]

Lincolm's 12 - Why sorry? In 29 he says it was because of his joke in 5 but I don't see that that is anything to apologise for; after all it was RVS. There's a bit of a disconnect between saying 5 was a joke but not understanding how Wicked's 9 was also a joke. Picks on Cheery for sheeping Kmd but not Blueberry for sheeping them both.

Because RVS for gain information. So, I destroy the RVS for joke and not gain information. Only because of that. That's my personality thought. I always sorry to town (after the game) if I was scum (if I win).
His post #9 seems like someone who like to see minor details (nah, maybe I'm the only one who thought this). So, I didn't get the joke after all.
I don't get the last sentence. I didn't pick on Cheery. I just wanted to sheeping Kmd, no reason. And sheeping them both? Do I need reason to sheeping someone (as joke) in page 1?

@ Lincolm: What do you think of Blueberry's post 15 putting you at L-1? Apart from what you said in 16.

He said he joked right there, so I'm fine with that. Personally, that #16 I type without thought lol.

[Lincolm]

Wait. I'm reading 29 and I have to ask. You thought wicked was making a serious case off of colons and numbers? (And if this has been answered, I write my posts as I read so that's why its here).

Yes, what do you think about someone like to see minor details? Because I was.

As for the hammer thing for my plan, if someone refuses, they are lynched instead. Easy.

Dunno, but I think the scum can vote someone

early

and don't get caught. So the last think they do are looking the other townie to hammer. Well, I guess you don't think about it or scum who already plan for this to manipulate. It almost likely easy to manipulate in LyLo. I like the idea though... I will follow if not in LyLo.

Hold up. Lincolm didn't think it was a joke, but didn't take it seriously? How is that not contradicting? And then he says he's not being serious right after wisdom says he's either town who is also joking or bluffing scum. So he comes in all like "oh yeah its the town one". Ok. Not buying it.

No, it's not contradicting. Even I know it was serious, I don't like to explain it in page 1, so I didn't take it seriously. Huh? Wisdom didn't say anything about that. You exaggerated it.

I want wisdom to hammer lincolm. Lincolm pointing out daytalk made me think. My plan for town to control hammers is the kind of thing where scum might go to a QT and say "hey we have to shoot this down. Someone vote him". I'm disturbed that it's not even being discussed. I'm guessing the other scum won't talk about my plan negatively because they don't want to be too obvious and all in agreement in thread.

If your plan is too flawless, of course a thinker like Wisdom (I have play with him before) thought about it. If I was the scum with daytalk, I will follow your strategy and discuss to manipulate it, not tell town to not to do it. Congrats, you try to manipulate us.

You know what has me second guessing on Lincolmscum? The self-vote. I'm not sure he'd leave it there at L-1 this whole time.

You know the setup well

and that self-vote bad? Tell me why it is bad. Because I find it pretty interesting to do in this setup.

[Lincolm]

Personally, I do see lincolm as scum for the self vote and asking for the hammer vote because it's extremely EXTREMELY antitown. Not only will scum not be stupid enough to hammer, town is the most likely to and if he's scum, he's relying on someone to point this out and use it against ourselves. So we can only lose at the lylo.

You are too exaggerated it. Why it is anti-town? If I'm town and the hammer town, it isn't. And everyone already post and no one point that out. Do you think quickhammer not gonna happen? Boo. I see many Micros done this a lot. Also, this is nightless, if no one hammer, the game is not going anywhere.

Why you don't think I will unvote?

Effing game is so freaking overpowered it's crazy.
I don't think we should lynch Lincolm just yet. I want to know what the HELL he's thinking for having such a scumplay. Either he's still acting nubbish or he didn't read the setup as well as we all should have (I sure didn't)

Woah I just realized that this is a 3 scum in a 9 player game that has town vengekills. This is over poweredly scumsided O.O

^Isn't this acting nubbish? Tell me why I'm acting nubbish because I don't do it.

[Cheery Dog]

Why it is anti-town? If I'm town and the hammer town, it isn't.

It's not anti town for town you to have another town killed?

Having dead town is as anti-town as you can get.

[Lincolm]

Lincoln - Mind explaining what you got out of analyzing RVS?

Actually I do it only because it is better than not voting (dunno why people say it will gain information (even I already read wiki), but I follow it). But I try to joke in here. My experience tell that reaction on RVS is the information. So, you know, I destroy the RVS because everyone do the choo-choo. Well, that sheep for the new RVS because it still in page 1. So, I don't get anything.

P-Edit : That explain more, but I don't think someone will hammer (gut say that lol, except Slimer).

[Lincolm]

Post 12- Lincolm, why did you vote for me in this post? And do you feel that this vote was more helpful/productive than your vote for Kmd? If so, why?

A new RVS. I destroyed the first RVS. I don't think the first will gain information.

Lincolm, you say there is at least one scum on your bandwagon (Cheery Dog, Kmd, Lincolm, Blueberry). Why did you say that? The only serious non-Lincolm votes on this bandwagon were from Kmd and Blueberry- are you saying you think at least one of those two people are mafia?

Pretty sorry. I type it without thought. Lol

I think Lincolm is probably town. I've seen scum fake fearlessness before, but Lincolm's self vote and response to the pressure seems a little over the top to be a scum gambit. I believe that he doesn't care about the negative attention. I would like to know who he suspects and would like a response to my questions, but as of right now I'd be surprised if he turned out to be scum.

I want to be the hammer if not in LyLo.

Nah, I got my scumread in everyone. I need think more before post it.

Everyone post already? It means

Unvote

[Wisdom]

So Lincolm, who is scum? I see signs of suspecting kmd in your post but you didn't vote him.

@Malakittens, I've played with Lincolm before here, as well as in marathons, but tbh I knew about the language barrier before that because I read games.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: kmd

Reasons and other stuff in the next post

[Lincolm]

So Lincolm, who is scum? I see signs of suspecting kmd in your post but you didn't vote him.

My top scumread is Kmd and Slimer. No change about that. I still doubt with my other read.

I don't like vote in this setup. I like to hammer them if nobody want, even in LyLo. And if I'm in L-1, no one should hammer me except them.

Vote in this setup just give me bad feeling everywhere.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, I didn't think it was strange at all.

Are you kidding me?

I asked why because I came into the thread and the only post was an unreasoned vote.

I was curious why

and figured i'd be more likely to get an answer if I included a vote.

Yes, you found it strange. You were curious why there was one unexplained vote

in RVS

. You asked for reasoning regarding a RVS vote. And now you're lying about it.

Regarding his "plan" - I had already read about it before, so it's not like the plan was something kmd came up with. Wouldn't it be nice for scum to give this plan to the town in order to gain cred? This is what I instantly thought when I saw him mentioning it in his first serious post. The way he's trying to use it ("I want Wisdom to hammer Lincolm" - aka I want town to hammer town, because yes, I find Lincolm town now), further confirms to me that it comes from scum. Look at how wicked adds to it in 103 - that's a townie with genuine motivations to use the plan - kmd wasn't.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, I have a hard time believing that you believe in the first paragraph of this quote, considering Kmd's vote for Lincolm was in part due to Lincolm's reaction to my joke. Also, can you elaborate on the bolded point, please?

I don't know why you have a hard time. I explained how I think. Yes, it was probably obvious that your case was a joke, yes, most people got it, but there were also people who didn't and others who had not posted yet. What is the town motivation in killing it and discredit it as a joke, making sure nobody will be likely to give reactions to it? Yes, we had Lincolm's reaction but we could possibly gain much more. Your original motivation from posting the case was reactions anyway - town that understood that it was a joke should have also understood your motivation and let it go to allow it to elicit reactions. Blueberry and especially kmd instantly killed it, and referred to it as a joke. Scum will refer to it as a joke, because they know they're not in danger from this case.

Post 52- Wisdom, why do you find Lincolm suspicious? Also, you've switched your vote from Kmd (the person who started the bandwagon on Lincolm) to Lincolm. Do you think they are both mafia?

Lincolm is town, kmd is scum. My vote and questions to Lincolm were pressure. I wanted to keep him at L-1 because I felt it was an interesting state for reactions. Scum would not be able to hammer him, town might try tricks like CDog's fake hammer - and generally there were things we could gain.

Wisdom looks even more suspicious. His vote for Kmd4390 seemed poorly justified and his vote for Lincolm looks opportunistic. Also, I find it strange that he has suspicion of both Kmd4390 and Lincolm given their interactions.

I have covered all of this, so let me know if it changes anything.

[Wisdom]

My current reads:

Lincolm is town. Not only his play looks really different than his scumplay, the whole thing with being at L-1, being cool and everything clearly shows he's going for helpful reactions. His last post further convinces me - he knows scum will vote early to avoid hammering, so he doesn't want to vote yet - he offers to hammer if one of his two scumspects reach L-1. Is this just words? I don't think so, it seems genuine. The cases people have made on him are bullshit, and the only thing I agreed with for a while was his stopping of CDog's fakehammer test - but on second thought that's null.

Wicked is town. The jokecase was a really smart first move to elicit reactions. His later serious posts are good and his reads seem genuine. I like how he added to the plan and I'm now willing to follow it - whereas from kmd it just seemed a manipulative control-the-lynches attempt coming from scum.

CDog is probably town. Basing it on his fakehammer test and discrediting it soon after - but it's not completely unlikely that he would do that as scum. I'm also curious what he will do with his vote on me now - he accepted that the reasoning is not enough, so is he willing to let me get lynched?

Huntress and Malakittens are null, I'll need more from them.

Blueberry is somewhat different than his last scumgame but at the same time I'm getting slight scumvibes. Maybe from the fact that he also discredited wicked's jokecase right away. He has not posted much content, so I'll leave him at null for now.

theslimer3 is probably scum. His play reminds me of his scumgame. His constant "omg this setup is so scumsided" is more likely to come from scum-slimer than town-slimer; town-slimer is usually more innocent, less setup-evaluating, more scumhunting. Not much content from him so far either, so I'll give him a chance to impress me.

kmd is scum - reasons have been said but if you want a recap: Instant discrediting of wicked's jokecase which does not allow it to fulfill its purpose (to elicit reactions), questioning an RVS vote and lying about it later, proposing a plan in a way that looks (to me, at least) more cred-hunting than actually wanting to help the town, expressing interest in seeing a townie hammer another townie, trying to discredit my case on him by saying that I'm also guilty of what he did, which is completely wrong since we were talking about different people, different reactions, different levels of scumminess, and yeah that's mostly it. It's just five pages, but my scumdar pings quite a lot here.

[implosion]

Vote count 1.3:

Wisdom - 3 (Cheery Dog, Kmd4390, Wickedestjr)
Lincolm - 1 (Blueberry)
Kmd4390 - 1 (Wisdom)

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 2 weeks from this post, at 8:00 PM PST, in (expired on 2013-02-10 00:00:00).

[Lincolm]

So here it is my read :

Wisdom is town. I already get it from post #32. Based on meta related also, he is a thinker. When he said :

-The inclusion of the last paragraph in 13 looks pre-prepared, something that he had thought of posting in his first serious post.

If he is scum, he won't say this. This is how a thinker town aware with someone plan.

Wicked is town. I like his post #103. Somehow I fine that pretty genuine, especially when he explain more about the plan and when he asked to Huntress. About the plan, if I am scum, I won't say that. He calculate the bad conditions. That's very good.

I don't know too much about Mala, Huntress, and Blueberry... (well, blueberry's account have been made for lynch)

I still doubt about Cheery thought. That fake hammer seems not planned before, he just got that idea in that time (meaning I think he is town). But for me that fake hammer really really bad (meaning I think he is scum). Dunno...

Kmd is scum. I like he mention the plan in #13, but he didn't calculate bad conditions after that. Somehow I find it scum want to manipulate town and that proved in his post #86. Will tell all of you all of bad conditions.

Slimer is scum. His post #98 isn't genuine. Somehow that post feel already prepared before. Almost likely what he said in there is what Kmd said. He didn't see other people, except me. And based on meta related also. What I know, Slimer is reckless and simple person, not post like that.

[Wisdom]

>.> Last time you copied and reworded my reads you were scum. Why are you doing it again?

Also, since your plan is over now, mind explaining what exactly you were doing?

[Lincolm]

>.> Last time you copied and reworded my reads you were scum. Why are you doing it again?

I never copy someone read to my read. Our first game, that read really a coincidence (well, whatever you thought about that). I won't fake my read. Seems we have kind of connection with a read. Well, I usually copy the construction of the post because I don't find the most easy to read.

That self-vote to see people reaction. I like Mala who said don't self-vote. Dunno why she dislike it. I like to see who want to put in L-1. Which are for me a scum want to save their self from hammer. Correct me if I wrong, that was Blueberry, Wisdom, and Slimer. In other side that was failed because I forgot someone not willing to unvote.

If you find a typo (because I find), you know how it pronounce. My hand type how it pronounce.

So, here it is some bad conditions of that plan :

a.) A mafia goon on the end of the largest bandwagon unvotes just before deadline to cause the death of the next-to-last voter.
b.) Somebody refuses to hammer not long before deadline.

Of course it is bad. That's why I think the scum will early vote and don't want to hammer. It's good to post who you want to hammer and not.

You know that there is 3 scums. Potentially 3 scum can direct town to ask townie to hammer. I don't like the plan because it is easy to manipulate because of this.

[Wisdom]

Okay, fair enough. I agree that the plan can easily be used by scum to manipulate town, and that's how I felt when kmd proposed it.

[Blueberry]

Blueberry - that is a stupid reason to put someone at L-1. >.> (joke or no joke)

I wasn't looking for a wise vote. Especially, this early in the game.

The only serious non-Lincolm votes on this bandwagon were from Kmd and Blueberry- are you saying you think at least one of those two people are mafia?

I'm not a fan of this post from Blueberry. Firstly, how did the quotes from Lincolm imply that he was mafia? Secondly, what kind of answer were you expecting?

One, my vote on Abraham wasn't serious. Two, he said that at least one person on his wagon is scum & he was on his wagon himself = he's scum. Three, I haven't been serious one bit about Lincoln or pretty much anything up to this point.

I also had issue with his post 17.

Oh my, what are we gonna do now?

he also discredited wicked's jokecase

To be honest, I didn't see any potential for reactions/whatever in the jokecase, so I treated it as one. Not sure what kind of reactions you expected.

Good enough time to remove the jokevote. Kmd's eagerness to question a first/obviously RVS vote is somewhat too overdefensive/overanalytical. Also, kmd'd hastiness for Wisdom hammering Abraham/controlling the lynches is also suspicious.

VOTE: Kmd

Abraham is probably town.

[Huntress]

As for the hammer thing for my plan, if someone refuses, they are lynched instead. Easy.

Easy for whom?

Cheery is town for the fake hammer. Scum's only reason to reaction test is to draw a reaction that can be interperated as scummy and I don't think cheery is that kind of player.

Another reason could be to look like town. I think it's more of a null tell than a town tell.

@ Huntress. Don't complain <3 (I forgot that you were playing - I need to get a read on you ASAP)

Hehe.

Post 83- It bothers me that I don't know who Huntress suspects. Huntress, who do you suspect? Also, why is eagerness from Wisdom suspicious?

At the moment I'm looking at Kmd, Wisdom (but I'm not seeing them as partners), Slimer and Blueberry. More about this in a separate post. Blueberry is looking a bit better after his last post though. Still need to have a closer look at Cheery. Wisdom's eagerness was just part of the picture. I didn't say more about him in my last post because I wanted to see Kmd's reaction to his vote and Wisdom's response to that reaction. To make my own comments on it at that point would pre-empt Kdb and get in the way of Wisdom's scumhunting if it was genuine.

I don't get the last sentence. I didn't pick on Cheery. I just wanted to sheeping Kmd, no reason. And sheeping them both? Do I need reason to sheeping someone (as joke) in page 1?

Meh. Forget that. I misread post 12 as you naming Cheery for sheeping Kmd so wondered why you didn't mention Blueberry as well. I think I had Blueberry's sheeping on my mind at the time and mixed up the two thoughts.

Lincolm's replies to my and others questions have cleared up most of my concerns about him.