NY 162: A Week at the Theatres (Game Over)

[Smashbard]

It all comes down to this. Go suspects Mr. Zepher of being scummy. Human Destroyer attacks Go for his reasons. I almost said raisins. So let's go with raisins. Human destroyer attacks Go for his raisins, Go and Human Destroyer proceed to misrepresent each others arguments for two pages. Human Destroyer won't answer the question directly as to whether or not he feels Mr. Zepher is scummy, and Go thinks Human Destroyer is tunneling him.

[Nobody Special]

That's more than two sentences.

[Human Destroyer]

I never stated, nor do I have, any sort of town read on MrZepher.

lrn2read Smashbard

[Human Destroyer]

Do tell though, Smashbard, how is my "unclear" answer scummier than Go's complete lack of answers?

[Smashbard]

It's unclear because you won't just saying "I believe Mr. Zepher is town/scum." You won't even consider stating that he's a null read to you. You have to preface it with "I never said nor do I have a town read on Mr. Zepher". That doesn't tell us how you feel about him at all.

You seem to have difficulties just saying straight up "I have a (Insert Read Here) on Mr. Zepher".

So that makes you look scummy to me because you refuse to commit to a read, making me feel like you are purposefully distancing yourself away from Mr. Zepher.

If you're town all you have is gut right now and a butt load of guess work to go off of so your lack of conviction tells me you know Mr. Zepher's alignment and aren't willing to commit.

Despite all of that though, my vote is purely on you in order to get a straight answer out of you. Because clearly just talking to you isn't going to get you to cooperate with anyone's questions.

I won't make you point out Go's complete lack of answers. Although I haven't caught what you're talking about yet. But I will definitely reread real quick and pose some questions to him if I see what it is that's got you all riled up on him. All I want from you is your read on Mr. Zepher.

[Human Destroyer]

He asked if I had a town read. I said I don't.

If you really need to grasp that far, I'd say null

[Go]

When someone is as full of shit as HD is its usually a sign they're mafia.

[Smashbard]

These are all the questions you have asked him so far.

1) What reason does he have

not

to say that? Why does it necessarily come from a scum mindset?

3) How does that vote even look remotely serious to you? It looks like any other random vote to me. How does his reasoning "reek of bs"?

So far, so good. Here's his initial response.

So just to clarify you are going to ignore my question about MrZepher and just continue to tunnel me for some reason. Got it. I'm the one twisting words?

"How does that even look remotely serious"

- Uhh Zepher made a scummy post and Dram voted him for it. Looked serious. I stated my opinions. You seem to be operating under the assumption that I have to explain everything in detail to you.

Bold emphasis mine. He answered what looks like question #2. But not the following question that I have revised for you:

Why does Mr. Zepher saying that Drams vote on his being expected have to come from a scum mindset?

This is your next couple of questions.

I never said he was town. I said you were scum. That is my answer. What gave you the impression that it might not be?

He hasn't directly answered this question in quotes. But the fact that you guys have been arguing over whether or not you properly answered the question should give you context enough to know he does not feel your answer is satisfactory. I feel the same.

Do you lack reading comprehension or are you scum?

So tell me, how is calling your vote "blatant omgus" a scumtell?

Here are your other two questions. So let's make a quick and convenient list so that nobody has any excuse that questions are not being answered.

Go:

Why does Mr. Zepher saying that Drams vote on his being expected have to come from a scum mindset?

Do you lack reading comprehension or are you scum?

How is calling your vote "blatant omgus" a scumtell?


PEDIT: You finally answered the question as to your read on Mr. Zepher. So ignore anything I say above about you dodging the question.

[Go]

Because being expected to be voted for something is what mafia think about, not town. That early in the game town isn't concerned about what they will be voted for they're usually RVSing or throwing around a few votes to test the waters. Not premptively expecting a vote... for what? I dont even remember at this point. Something scummy. Thats why I believe (actually know) it comes from a 'scum mindset'. HD has already used ad hominem as a recourse to common sense multiple times today, and I really am not going to bother addressing it. There is nothing blatant about my play this game at all. He is consistently using charged rhetoric to over justify his flimsy positions and I simply do not have the time or the willpower to wallfight him for ages because he is the type of player who will have a response to everything regardless of common sense. Do not interpret this as evasion; interpret as an unwillingness to get drawn into a large drawn-out ego battle with someone who I think is scum. I dont believe in arguing with scum. And you can be sure, HD is scum.

[KingdomAces]

UNVOTE: Bacde Only because this is supposedly his meta. I personally don't agree with how he's acting, but I've never played with him before. I might check his meta myself later, but for now I'll just defer to those who have.

Wind-up, I was trying to imply what I ended up outright saying in 36, but the conversation kept going back to it, and really there wasn't much else to talk about. The two games I immediately thought of involving millers were Disney Villains Mafia and Micro 34. Both games were won in large parts due to people claiming miller, and getting written off as a suspect because of it.


Now this argument. First, I want to say that I feel that Zepher has been completely null to me so far. Yeah he's made some scummy posts, but they don't look like things scum would actually post. If you want to call WIFOM, fine. It's still nowhere near enough to have a significant scumread over. Go's frequent calls for town to shut up and quicklynch him over shoddy evidence is far more worth looking at in my opinion.

Anyway, now the part where Destroyer gets involved. About Dram's vote, you should probably wait for him to comment about it instead of arguing over what it might be. Unless Dram says otherwise, this seems a lot like the RVS exchange I had with Destroyer. Person A votes Person B due to history, Person B makes sarcastic comment back, Go assumes it was completely serious. This part just looks like a difference of opinion where neither side understands the other's perspective.

Go's initial question pretty much sums up the rest of the argument. The question wasn't "Do you think Zepher is town." It was

Human Destroyer, do you actually think MrZepher is town? If so why. Please point out to me posts where he has towntold so I can get a scumread on you and lynch you.

Go had already decided what he thought of Destroyer before he even gave him a chance. All Destroyer saw was the malicious intent of the question, so he responded without bothering to find it's actual meaning. This cycle continued the rest of the time.

tl;dr/Two sentence summary:

Go rushes into assumptions and refuses to step back and think about them. Destroyer challenges these assumptions, and provides no reason for Go to think twice.

Go, stop and think a bit before continuing. I just want to put this out there before this starts up again.

[wind-up]

What's your read on ZONEACE, KingdomAces?

[Nobody Special]

Because being expected to be voted for something is what mafia think about, not town.

Wrong. I fully expect to be voted for my playstyle (among those that know and love me). I get voted for same regardless of my alignment.

So just sit there in your wrongness and be wrong.

[Human Destroyer]

Because being expected to be voted for something is what mafia think about, not town. That early in the game town isn't concerned about what they will be voted for they're usually RVSing or throwing around a few votes to test the waters. Not premptively expecting a vote... for what? I dont even remember at this point. Something scummy. Thats why I believe (actually know) it comes from a 'scum mindset'. HD has already used ad hominem as a recourse to common sense multiple times today, and I really am not going to bother addressing it. There is nothing blatant about my play this game at all.

He is consistently using charged rhetoric to over justify his flimsy positions and I simply do not have the time or the willpower to wallfight him for ages because he is the type of player who will have a response to everything regardless of common sense.

Do not interpret this as evasion; interpret as an unwillingness to get drawn into a large drawn-out ego battle with someone who I think is scum. I dont believe in arguing with scum. And you can be sure, HD is scum.

Firstly that's not a wallfight

Secondly, if you're going to call my positions flimsy, you at least have to say

how

they're flimsy. You've just gone and said "Hey your positions are flimsy." but haven't said anything to back that up.

So you're asking people to not interpret it as what you're actually doing? >.>

[Go]

Also I dont believe that he actually "expected to be voted", I believe that was just a white lie in an attempt to sound like he knew what was going on and an attempt to almost play down his own scuminess.

Also NS just because you believe something to be true that doesn't mean it magically applies to everyone else. If I believe in god that doesn't make everyone else automatically believe in god and I dont call everyone wrong when they dont.

[wind-up]

Because being expected to be voted for something is what mafia think about, not town.

Also NS just because you believe something to be true that doesn't mean it magically applies to everyone else. If I believe in god that doesn't make everyone else automatically believe in god and I dont call everyone wrong when they dont.

Uh...

[Human Destroyer]

Your reaction to the vote was horrific, by the way

You literally went and:

-called me scum the post after I voted for defending Zepher (who you were tunneling pretty hard before I jumped in if memory serves)
-OMGUS'd me and just called bs on everything I said rather than responding to it
-Told people to interpret posts as you want them to

That's not a good reaction

P-Edit: Except if there are people that do it as town...it isn't really a very good scumtell, now is it?

P-P-Edit: lol

[Go]

opinions are hard

[Go]

Just stop posting HD you're so obvious and the fact you haven't been voted or lynched yet is a testament to the general innactivity and blase attitude of this town.

Everything you say is so comically twisted with a scumbent.

[Human Destroyer]

^See, you just did it again!

[wind-up]

opinions are hard

Opinions become more valid the less they're based on conjecture and the more they're based on evidence.

[Go]

Yes because me not addressing you're horribly miscontrued representation of actual events is scummy

lmao

[Nobody Special]

Also I dont believe that he actually "expected to be voted", I believe that was just a white lie in an attempt to sound like he knew what was going on and an attempt to almost play down his own scuminess.

Also NS just because you believe something to be true that doesn't mean it magically applies to everyone else. If I believe in god that doesn't make everyone else automatically believe in god and I dont call everyone wrong when they dont.

Translation:

I AM SCUM AND I MUST MISLYNCH NOWNOWNOW AND ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME MUST ALSO BE LYNCHED

You're welcome.

unvote

Vote: Go

[Go]

opinions are hard

Opinions become more valid the less they're based on conjecture and the more they're based on evidence.

Right. My point was NS was using his personal frame of reference as a gauge for someone elses play and thus excusing it and I dont think that is very good play.

wind, please tell me you think HD is mafia. You seem like a reasonable dude.

[Go]

@NS okay because thats totally what I was saying

[wind-up]

opinions are hard

Opinions become more valid the less they're based on conjecture and the more they're based on evidence.

Right. My point was NS was using his personal frame of reference as a gauge for someone elses play and thus excusing it and I dont think that is very good play.

How weren't you doing the same with your claim that "being expected to be voted for something is what mafia think about, not town"?

wind, please tell me you think HD is mafia. You seem like a reasonable dude.

I'm actually torn on both of your alignments.