NY 161: Overly-Posh Mafia (POSH WIN - NIGHT X)

[AngryPidgeon]

Do you find it scummy?

Missed this. You asked the same question to Benmage in HPATPL before I replaced you and people kept referencing that question and calling you scummy for asking it. I was wondering if you remembered that or not, but Im guessing not.

My thoughts kind of jumbled together up above ^. The reasons people are listing for being on the JS wagon boil down to lurking. I personally didn't like that one sentence to Matt of his which is why I have him as light scum over just null.

[ArcAngel9]

am here today, And let me catch up a bit.. I ll be back

[Majiffy]

What is this about chkflip having been mod-confirmed?

bork is town let's talk about that

Go on...

[mozamis]

Failed miserably because mollie has absolutely no interest in being reasonable or answering questions.

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate, but lets say it is -is that the a sensible way for scum to play? Obviously, not. Get on the Jacob wagon!

[ActionDan]

bork was always town. /talk

[Majiffy]

VOTE: Moza

[Majiffy]

AP you should fix your signature;

"To post is to be perceived. One cannot know one's own alignment except through others' reads."

[MattP]

I would go with a moza or IAI lynch realistically

[Majiffy]

Then maybe you should vote Moza.

[MattP]

Then maybe you should vote Moza.

Get the wagon rolling and I'll sheep, it would cost way too much energy to type "VOTE: notIAI" right now

VOTE: IAI

Also if I'm wrong noone will ever vote off IAI just to fuck with me

And my pride is greater than my lust for a moza death

[AngryPidgeon]

Zab, if he's scum he's massively improved

I dont like this argument. My first game as scum was awful and I got my ass lynched Day 2 just to coast to endgame in my next 2. So ya, people improve. Not just me.

..Ok just got back from meeting.

I'm getting a weird vibe from majiffy. Seems like he's trying to play his usual flippant meta, rather than it coming naturally. He's a concern of mine, and I believe mollie is town.

I feel this way about Vifam tbh.

Are you serious? Majiffy will happily sling shit at anyone for any reason. There's one scum between vifam and majiffy, after this post I'm leaning vifam.

I gotta say for some reason I was subconsciously grouping Mattp/Vifam/Majiffy/Chkflip together in my head. So I kinda see where you are coming from here. I feel like those 4 were kind of lightly buddying each other all game or something. Or avoiding stepping on each others toes. Chk was basically just popping in to sheep matt. Vifam and Matt were kind of steering things together from the top of the thread. Dunno.

More scumminess. Why is everyone neglecting to understand why chkflip was the most obvious NK of them all? The mod accidentally cleared him. No-one is prepared to say this out loud. Why?

I guess I didn't interpret that timecut as a punishment to Chkflip and accidental modfirm.

If Maestro really did punish Chkflip by cutting DL time then..... :/ That is a really really really poor mod decision.

@AP -- do you really think Vifam and Matt are scum together? That seems horribly impossible.

Why? They have been buddy-buddy all game except for a few intervals where Matt was like "Oh Vifam might be scum, IDK, woe is me. Someone investigate Vifam." It looked forced and it could easily be distancing. And they are pushing different things. I keep feeling like they are trying to work together subtly, but Mattp is DEFINITELY actively distancing from Vifam with their differing takes on Mastinero (Mattp trying to emphasize that it was NOT his preferred lynch Today) and Vifam was obviously the one shoving that one.

The one mattp post really bothers me. He says "Lets do things my way today" Mastinero WAS one of his top 3 scumreads. And Vifam kept shoving that and Matt kept ingnoring it and going for IaI? It looks an awful lot like trying to distance from Vifam's opinions.

B/C noone is listening to me, and I'm right

Oh, really? I guess I missed Mastin flipping Mafia. And I dont give two shits if you wanted IaI over Mastin, the fact that you were unwilling to compromise on that wagon is quite telling that you are mafia setting yourself up for a "Oh look, we should have done things my way" post.

@Mollie: AA9 is always like this from what I've seen. Mhork has a point that she was different in Cataclysm in that she was more lurky, less useful and she flipped maf. But, eh. I think shes apathetic town atm.
@PV: Do you think Zab is playing like he did in HPATPL? Read on Zab?
@Majiffy? Was that you saying Bork isn't playing to his town meta? Bullet points as to why? No quote thanks. Sorry if I already asked this, I keep thinking I have.

[pirate mollie]

B/C noone is listening to me, and I'm right, and I'm watching stupid ass lynches get set up and frankly I don't give a single fuck, people are doubting a townread on me, pushing towards lynches on all my townreads, and being idiotic. AD is playing a terrible game congrats AD. UN I frankly dont give a fuck since he's a mess but is really proud of it so it's adorable, Vifam should die because I'd like to watch it. ArcAngel ate something radioactive, etc etc etc

I can't help wanting you all dead, my psychiatrist specifically told me that my feelings cant be tamed

I have been listening to you. I tried to work with you yesterday. yes I will probably paranoid about you though.

and I feel differently than you, I see some town cohesion forming and it is still early. so what if you feel like your teammates are not listening to you we win the game as a team and not by you alone.

IaI is someone I have down as scummy so I can go for that wagon. the thing I don't like about jacob is that he is posting in other games and has done nothing, no commitment in this one. I gave him a pass cos we were both in another game together but that game ended and the pass has expired and I need to see some meat from him.

borky has been in my town pile since yesterday.

I am not as comfy with majiffy as you are cos he is going after my town reads. I think it was really obvious that ua was showing signs of town flail and I wish there would have been enough people around to have moved the lynch off of him. I think he did what he thought was best for his team, which was to defend himself against a mob of stupidity and scum, gave a list of his reads and went down with fairly good grace. I don't think his game was shit at all.

I hope uber really is town it would be nice to be on the same team with him. I play in a similar way that you do as in I try to find town and work with them. I think I have a pretty solid pool and I really think we can pull this together.

[TheReverend]

What is this about chkflip having been mod-confirmed?

Aw cmon, I've been pretty lazy with my reading but this implies you have no idea what's going on in this game. Pretending to not know makes it look like you're pretending to not have been discussing it in QT.

pidgeon... ok fair enough, I won't allow zab to cruise along avoiding my radar based on him not being obvscum, but I'm yet to see him actually do anything scummy., or anyone present anything more than "he's scummy" or whatever. Your reason for him being scummy is...

Zabriel feels different to me than he did in HPATPLC. He seems like hes just along for the ride this game and just swooping in on occasions to say "Ya, player X is scum, good wagon".

This doesn't feel particularly compelling. On the other hand, when I first mentioned his meta, he said to me...

Not that I don't appreciate being called obv-town, but NY 159 was my first scum game. Or maybe just my first non-micro scum game. It's a valid observation; I do suck as I almost never roll scum, but I do like to think my scum game has improved a little since NY 159. I'm going to assume good intent since that was just kind of volunteered out of nowhere. In my experience scum usually wait until my wagon is already rolling to defend me.

That came across to me as particularly sincere. This is what I mean by him improving a lot if he's scum, sincerity is not easy to fake. Thus, he's a town read for me.

[pirate mollie]

AP, what I have noticed about arc is she is a lot more decisive as town and puts forth more effort. she is not always the best at explaining herself but hey, neither am I, but her scumdar in the game that I kept up with was pretty good and I am seeing no signs of it here. I think she is easy to dismiss and therefore easy to fly under the radar which is what I am seeing here now.

what do you think of IaI?

[TheReverend]

Mollie, do you really think scum makes that hammer yesterday?

[AngryPidgeon]

what do you think of IaI?

I could see scum IaI. I might even make a case. I'd prefer other lynches Today though because IaI is going to get his ass lynched sooner than later w/o my help.

Off the top of my head:
-Feels less focused than he did in Switchboard mafia. He is commenting on things as they happen and being less proactive / tunnely.
-Didn't like his "AP, why didn't you analyze any Mastinero connections?" when he hasn't done so either...And that is a playstyle thing. Why does he care that I, specifically, haven't when NO ONE really had. And add in the fact that I really HAD speculated peripherally to that (wrt Majiffy and Vifam) and the whole question just looks fake as hell.
-Bahhhh baahhhh bahhhh bahhhh Nero Cain
-Hes pushing a lurker case on JS w/o really directly calling it a lurker case.

Side note: I could buy IaI as scum with Mattp and/or JS. All that crap floating around about Matt not being scum with IaI is crap. And floating around. Because scum totally never distance or bus ever.

[TheReverend]

-Didn't like his "AP, why didn't you analyze any Mastinero connections?" when he hasn't done so either...And that is a playstyle thing. Why does he care that I, specifically, haven't when NO ONE really had.

Now this is compelling.

[AngryPidgeon]

Also, I'd like to know Majiffy/Matt's reasons for suspecting Moz.

[pirate mollie]

what do you think of IaI?

I could see scum IaI. I might even make a case. I'd prefer other lynches Today though because IaI is going to get his ass lynched sooner than later w/o my help.

Off the top of my head:
-Feels less focused than he did in Switchboard mafia. He is commenting on things as they happen and being less proactive / tunnely.
-Didn't like his "AP, why didn't you analyze any Mastinero connections?" when he hasn't done so either...And that is a playstyle thing. Why does he care that I, specifically, haven't when NO ONE really had. And add in the fact that I really HAD speculated peripherally to that (wrt Majiffy and Vifam) and the whole question just looks fake as hell.
-Bahhhh baahhhh bahhhh bahhhh Nero Cain
-Hes pushing a lurker case on JS w/o really directly calling it a lurker case.

Side note: I could buy IaI as scum with Mattp and/or JS. All that crap floating around about Matt not being scum with IaI is crap. And floating around. Because scum totally never distance or bus ever.

I wondered about matt too but then he made that post about trying to find town. <------ his actions support this (votes, arguments) at least from what I have seen. his frustration that the lynch did not go his way seems genuine and he is also tying himself to a lot of other players which would be hard to unravel in an endgame situ. I will give you this about vifam; he isn't as much but I am not sure what that means.

meta on matt, does he often go emo and dramaqueen about as scum? cos that would widen the scope as far as motivation for his posts if he does. if not then I think he is likely town.

[MattP]

Also, I'd like to know Majiffy/Matt's reasons for suspecting Moz.

You can like, IDK, Iso me

[zabriel]

I would not mind picking up the IaI wagon again.

VOTE: IaI

Lurking, even chronic lurking is a solid null in my mind. JacobSavage is a non-entity in my mind. I have town feels from Matt.

[Vifam]

I dunno about vifam. there have been a few times that he has said exactly what I was thinking and I tend to see that as town although I know there are crossovers like that between scum and town. I already tried to do a reach out to him and he was all like "yo" so he lost some town points for that but I just don't know him as a player at all - his refusal to interact with me makes it hard to get a read but so far I have had him as town.

Sorry, if you ask me a question I'll answer it unless I get sidetracked. But if your personality doesn't really interest me I'll just ignore you for the most part.

Nothing against you I just don't really interact well with some of the people on this site.

[AngryPidgeon]

I would not mind picking up the IaI wagon again.

VOTE: IaI

Lurking, even chronic lurking is a solid null in my mind. JacobSavage is a non-entity in my mind. I have town feels from Matt.

^ This is an excuse for a post.

Do I have your attention?

Zab, please clarify your last posts that I have borught up in

2

3 posts now. Thanks.

Why is me bringing up a town game of yours bad/scummy/notable? Why is me WKing you in that game relevant AT ALL to what is happening atm? Why are you playing like you have a "You win when your team controls 50% of the town" wincon?

[Vifam]

This wagon building up on me is dumb and it's not gonna fly.

If Majiffy is telling the truth and he really does comment on every little thing directed at him, then I guess he wasn't necessarily getting into such a stupid argument with Mastin just to distance himself from the flip.

Rev, I have NO IDEA what Zab's meta is and you can't expect me to just sit here and believe he's 100% town because he's playing better or something, I'm not all about lynching Zab but he's not completely off the list for scum and that's not an outrageous statement.

Chkflip being confirmed town obviously wasn't 100%.

[AngryPidgeon]

I guess a lot of people saw it as obvious that the Mod was punishing the town for chkflip's behavior by docking time.

I was reading a lot of pages and I kind of glossed over that part. I assumed that it couldnt have been the case, because that is...sketchy modding to say the least. Force replacing would have been 100x more appropriate.

But I guess that IS what happened and it was fairly obvious to the scumteam that Chkflip was accidentally modfirmed.