Mini 1412: 0 Percent Flavor Mafia Finis

[The Central Scrutinizer]

As opposed to the other two possibilities -- that one is scum and doesn't want to shoot the other, and that neither are scum and scum are keeping them alive to seal the game with a mislynch on one.

[qwints]

I'm leaning monket and tcs as scum. I'll post more next week. Phone only access to Sunday.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm leaning monket and tcs as scum. I'll post more next week. Phone only access to Sunday.

A bit odd on the choices. The case on tcs is almost exclusively voting record while I have one of the better voting records out there. Care to explain?

[RichardGHP]

Vote Count 4.2

• MonkeyMan576 (1)
  : Yates
  
• Yates (1)
  : MonkeyMan576
  
• Not voting:
  Norlkaz qwints Matt-Shadowlord The Central Scrutinizer

With 6 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch. Deadline for Day 4 is in (expired on 2013-02-16 17:41:00)

.

[Norlkaz]

I know I'm town; You are free to reach your own conclusions.

if HD's scum, Matt looks very, very town.

Can you explain this for me?

I reread Yates and I'll accept my loss to a strong effort from a good opponent if he turns out to be scum.

We might simply be obligated to lynch monkey because we are guaranteed to lose (via Yates mislynch) if Monkey's town.

[MonkeyMan576]

I know I'm town; You are free to reach your own conclusions.

if HD's scum, Matt looks very, very town.

Can you explain this for me?

I reread Yates and I'll accept my loss to a strong effort from a good opponent if he turns out to be scum.

We might simply be obligated to lynch monkey because we are guaranteed to lose (via Yates mislynch) if Monkey's town.

At what point does a person's voting record come into play for you? Is one never accountable? We don't have that many days left.

[Yates]

Oh, Monkey isn't hanged yet? Be back tomorrow.

[MonkeyMan576]

Oh, Monkey isn't hanged yet? Be back tomorrow.

In other words you can't justify your voting. You've lynched two townies and did not lynch the scum that a lot of people wagoned. To me this is a no brainer.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

If the choice is between Yates/Monkey I will probably choose to vote Monkey, because his "case" on Yates at this point is basically the same as his "case" on me, which I know to be badlogic. -L- was a good lynch based on her behavior. HD hammered himself. Alduskkel was probably a mistake but he was playing in an anti-town manner, so it wasn't a BAD lynch per se. How bad would it have been if we lynched TAOS or some other townie yesterday and Alduskkel was left alive? Honestly he was going to have to be lynched at some point given his playstyle and better it be yesterday than at LYLO.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

EBWOP: Lynching Alduskkel

so quickly

was probably a mistake, yadda yadda

[MonkeyMan576]

Okay, so the remaining scum are Yates/Central. GG fellaz. Can we lynch Yates now please? Sometimes if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I can see now that you're FOSing me why Yates has been on your ass all game. It is really frustrating that you ignore the arguments of others and fail to ever make any yourself.

[MonkeyMan576]

I am making an argument. You need to be accountable for your voting history and scum have been riding this whole game getting away with lynching townies, which is great for their win con, but horrible for town.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Can you articulate me an ex ante reason why either the -L- or the Alduskkel lynches were bad?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Basically what I'm saying is that you're accusing people based solely on voting history when there were perfectly good reasons to vote for both of those people.

I would be more suspicious of voting history where there's a lack of good reasons for someone to be making those votes.

[MonkeyMan576]

The point is that scum knew L and Ald were town. Looking back, there were warning signs on both lynches, but scum took advantage of lazy town.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

The point is that scum knew L and Ald were town. Looking back, there were warning signs on both lynches, but scum took advantage of lazy town.

What warning signs?

[MonkeyMan576]

L could have been given a chance to prove her powers, while the Ald lynch was very quick and he said he was going to post content soon and asked to be replaced.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

You supported the -L- lynch for the same reasons I did. You literally quoted me on them and said "this is the case against L." Practically the only thing Ald had posted since RVS was "I solemnly swear to post content at some point."

Your points are unpersuasive.

[qwints]

I saw Matt as one of the key reasons for the HD lynch. I thought his pressure on HD came before HD's lynch looked likely. I don't see matt-scum bussing HD-scum in that way.

Aldusskel had to be lynched yesterday, but that lynch happened a lot faster than it had to.

Should we consider a no lynch here? If 2 scum then Mylo right?

[MonkeyMan576]

Your points are unpersuasive.

I think you're a little biased there. You're not the one I need to persuede.

[MonkeyMan576]

And no I don't think no lynch is a good idea.

[Matt-Shadowlord]

Been out all day so I had a chance to step back and see he game from a distance.

We have 6 players left. Norklaz looks good, and we all know our own alignment. That leaves 4 with a 50/50 chance of hitting mafia even if we're completely blind. I accept we're probably all decent players who can spin a good line about our innocence to have lasted so long, so if talk is cheap can anyone give me a good reason not to vote TCS based simply on the player's actions?

[Norlkaz]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I may have found what I was looking for.

Here's the theory I want to present and it is a little out of the ordinary: There may have been a major slip-up made by the mafia.

You may recall I accused Arcangel9 of raising a major red flag when she said she was 'confused' and found the game 'confusing', which have been excellent scumtells in games I have played before.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4656111

The person who leapt to her defence was none other than Human Destroyer. The trouble is that there was a problem - Arc completely misinterpretted his defence as an attack on her, and went a little over the top back at him.

VOTE: Matt-Shadowlord

Actually no going back here, ArcAngel case is bad; using outside meta tells is really weak.

i think you're mixing up theories from the different games and using that as an opportunity to frame here too.
you know what... you're not cocky...i think brain damaged too.. Get over with your freaking attitude and play along.

The animosity between HD and Arc was what we're taking as being the cause of the forced replacement. However, my theory is that it could be more than that.

I think Arc could have thought that

HD was trying to bus her

. The mafia pal who was leaping to her defence was suddenly seen by her to be a traitor putting himself before the team. The pot would boil over to the point where they could no longer be relied on to play to a joint victory condition together.

So I did a little more digging to try approach this from a different angle. What if there was a different game where the two of them wouldn't have to be split apart because they are not (at least knowingly) working towards a joint victory condition?
They mentioned friction between them in another game already in this thread, so I think it is fair to bring it up. I followed it up to Central Park, where they are still playing along without any hitch or mod interuption.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=25295
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... n#p4669028

I don't care if they are T/T, T/M or M/T in that game, it doesn't matter to our own in any way. What does matter is an open-fight here might result in a kick if the players were M/M, and no other combination. For every other combination, you just vote lynch the player who annoys you.

Like I said, it's a little out of the ordinary, but whether you agree it's plausible enough, it's convinced me to
VOTE: Human Destroyer

Congratulations, you've successfully

a) Broken the rules and talked about ongoing games.
b) Looked at the wrong game.

And guess what?

That's not the case. Stop speculating about this personal issue. Thank you.

This is EXCELLENT distancing if Matt is scum, so Matt gets to join Yates in the "if you're scum then fine you can win and congrats to the scumteam on a well played game" pile.
Thank you Qwints for getting me to reread D2!
PoE says TCS-Monkey with a chance of qwints.

We probably do lynch today because there may still be a protective role, in which case we can potentially get 3 lynches.
OTOH if we have a tracker or something NL would be better, but protective sounds about right to me.

[Norlkaz]

Okay, I have decided that Monkey is today's lynch.
VOTE: Monkey
TCS is his buddy, though I'll admit I don't have evidence totally ruling out Qwints.

Yates and Matt are not for lynching.