The Wire, Season 1 - Final Credits!


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Post Post #1500 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:03 am

Post by kuribo »

In post 1495, Zdenek wrote:Yeah, I read that. Why the uneasy feeling?


My suspicion on CDB is mostly gut and the fact that over the last five years, I've played a couple games with him. This just feels wrong. Add to that, his earlier questioning of "Those that say I just seem off are gonna have to do better," and now his admission that he's not really scumhunting? Kinda shows cognitive dissonance. But mainly, I want to know why he's been constantly nudging jason toward a lynch. And if he's explained already, I apologize, but I don't recall.

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Post Post #1501 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:04 am

Post by kuribo »

In post 1499, Benmage wrote:That's where I'm at, only with Kuribo.


I told DeasVeil in the Neighborhood QT that I sincerely want to take a shit on your living room furniture. I meant it too, if you could just PM me your home address.
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Post Post #1502 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:06 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

kuribo - I explained Jason very recently, hunt it out because I can't be arsed to go back a page and quote it.

I don't think it's dissonant to say "Those that say I just seem off are gonna have to do better". It's not like focusing on people talking just about me when in a big game is a new thing for me and it's certainly not as if I should have to explain what's off about me instead of them. It's their opinion, let them justify it if they want to vote me.

As for a three-shot dayvig ... Eh. I dunno. Jason, obviously. ZONEACE, because my experience in games with him has not previously been fun. Kise, dead weight since replacing in.
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Post Post #1503 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:09 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

I lied; I can be arsed, apparently. here you go
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Post Post #1504 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:10 am

Post by kuribo »

In post 1502, ChannelDelibird wrote:I don't think it's dissonant to say "Those that say I just seem off are gonna have to do better". It's not like focusing on people talking just about me when in a big game is a new thing for me and it's certainly not as if I should have to explain what's off about me instead of them. It's their opinion, let them justify it if they want to vote me.


But, my point is that you acted as if you didn't understand the scrutiny... and then explained you weren't actively scumhunting.
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Post Post #1505 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:11 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

I understand that I'm not actively scumhunting but the point I was making is that people need to at least prove that they show an understanding of my play in this game rather than just saying "sure, CDB wagon's fine, looks off" because that's how scum coast on a town lynch.
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Post Post #1506 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:13 am

Post by kuribo »

So who's the scum on your wagon?
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Post Post #1507 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:16 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

I'll double-check who was guilty of the above just a little later on - I'm actually posting all this
during
reporting on a match for work so can't really take the time to check through the thread for stuff. Will answer that as soon as I can.
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Post Post #1508 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:16 am

Post by Zdenek »

In post 1500, kuribo wrote:
In post 1495, Zdenek wrote:Yeah, I read that. Why the uneasy feeling?


My suspicion on CDB is mostly gut and the fact that over the last five years, I've played a couple games with him. This just feels wrong. Add to that, his earlier questioning of "Those that say I just seem off are gonna have to do better," and now his admission that he's not really scumhunting? Kinda shows cognitive dissonance. But mainly, I want to know why he's been constantly nudging jason toward a lynch. And if he's explained already, I apologize, but I don't recall.

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I was asking about Sottyrulez.
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Post Post #1509 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:21 am

Post by Benmage »

In post 1503, ChannelDelibird wrote:I lied; I can be arsed, apparently. here you go

TY for the link, that reminded me:
In post 1452, ChannelDelibird wrote:What got me yesterday on Jason was him going after Vifam, petapan etc purely on what looked like playstyle concerns. I felt certain that he should know them a bit better or at least recognise that he wasn't going to fundamentally change them, but instead it just looked like he was pushing to see if people were willing to give him lynch a spiky player. Today ... well, I've discussed today.

^This is actually the first time you mention what suspicions you held on jason for yesterday. Unless you can point to your iso and show me otherwise... I put jason as keyword into your iso, and only found you wanting to lynch him. Then saying you were holding off for Sotty... you then say noone should be voting Jason and all should be following Jason.

Today you've come in and waited for Sotty to embellish his reasoning. You again don't give reasoning for listing Jason as scum. This is the only post on today that I can find that lists some reasoning for being suspect of Jason: post 1391

So combining the 'yesterday' reasoning (which wasn't listed until just now)... with the meager reasoning in post 1391...Considering this is your top suspect for two days now. It blows. Nor is it convincing anyone to hop off you. Which btw, you're now the lead wagon.

*I first felt sympathy to the 'only defending myself' point... but your scumhunting has blown... and the I don't read/post walls is no excuse.

In short. Noone will loose sleep if you hang today.
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Post Post #1510 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:27 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

No, you're right. I didn't get my reasons for suspecting Jason down in writing on Day 1. Frankly, I was as surprised to find that out as you were when I noticed.

I'll tell you who'll lose sleep if I hang today - me. That's why I'm working so much on defending myself and not spending enough time on scumhunting. As I say, reading up on people like Nostredeus is coming by tomorrow at the latest and an answer to kuribo's question will come when my current work assignment is done.

Seems to me there's a bit of a vicious circle going on here whereby I get suspected for one thing, spend all my time defending it, and then the suspicion becomes that I'm spending all my time defending and not contributing otherwise. I'm not disagreeing with the facts of that; I'm just saying, I think it's perfectly understandable for me to be in this situation and I think that, if you read me while accepting that I'm town, it's obvious.
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Post Post #1511 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:00 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

You know what, fuck it. I'm doing it all tonight. Analysing my wagon, reading Nostredeus properly and one more possible scum too is the target. I've got a column to write tonight but I'll leave it late and it'll be a bit shit but it's time I got on fucking top of this game. You fuckers are not lynching me today and that's final.
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Post Post #1512 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:20 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

The votes on me - guilty or not guilty of coasting on my wagon?


Pless
- I'm happy with this, as I've said before. I can see the town thinking behind it and it's been explained properly and at length. Not guilty.

Zdenek
- Literally the only thing Zdenek has said about me is "I don't have anything to add to what's been said." when he voted for me. I've posted a metric fuckton since then and he's added nothing. The claim is the only thing that is stopping me from calling scum on this one but I'm pretty pissed off about it anway. Sentencing delayed.

The Mini-Librarian
- Said literally nothing about me other than his initial vote and a general "I just want CDB to hang/this wagon's so great" until I explicitly called him on ignoring me. I had him down as assumed town but have forgotten why and his play suits someone looking to ride my wagon and offer the bare minimum to add to my desperate defence when questioned on it. Guilty.

kuribo
- Fits the criteria for guilty, though his questioning of me over this last page feels town. He's not just left me to roast, even though personally I find it unlikely that we played together enough (or sufficiently recently) for him to judge me on the basis that he seems to have done. Plus, y'know, ActionDan. Innocent.

camn
- Has mentioned me very little and the vote on me was pretty poor, as I said at the time. Guilty.

If there's scum on my wagon, TML and camn look the best bets. Now I'm going to look to see if there's anyone who's guilty of stoking/coasting with the wagon without currently being on it.
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Post Post #1513 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:22 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

Oh, Nostredeus is on my wagon too (was going off the last vote count). I've already responded to Nost recently though and that exchange in itself was understandable so I'm not worried about that particularly. Innocent on that front, but I'll read Nost properly next once I've done this sweep.
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Post Post #1514 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:32 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

Non-current votes with relationships to my wagon


Cerulean
- Has not mentioned me often and was a bit general in the "oh, I agree with the CDB wagon" early on Day 2. Has questioned me on other things, though, rather than just letting it ride. The lack of a vote on me is suitable to the amount of discussion they've had about me. Innocent.

BT
- specified an intent to read me, then later said "I'm in pretty solid agreement with the CDB suspicion but I want peta/dan/kuribo or sotty lynched more." Convenient position re: my wagon while staying pretty quiet overall - and honestly I thought our little talk before went pretty well, but apparently not - plus my earlier feeling that one of his posts was something I'd have written as scum, I could see BT as scum quite easily. Guilty.

Sottyrulez
- "The CDB hate is somewhat tasty" is all they've said about my wagon and that was a while ago. I want more than that, sotty, if you're going to go anywhere near my wagon any time soon. Guilty.
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Post Post #1515 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:33 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

IN SUMMARY


Of those on or expressing an interest in my wagon, the most likely scum at the moment is in the group {The Mini-Librarian, camn, BT, sottyrulez}. Colour me interested in any of those if anyone else wants to get on them.
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Post Post #1516 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:36 am

Post by sottyrulez »

In post 1514, ChannelDelibird wrote:
Non-current votes with relationships to my wagon


Cerulean
- Has not mentioned me often and was a bit general in the "oh, I agree with the CDB wagon" early on Day 2. Has questioned me on other things, though, rather than just letting it ride. The lack of a vote on me is suitable to the amount of discussion they've had about me. Innocent.

BT
- specified an intent to read me, then later said "I'm in pretty solid agreement with the CDB suspicion but I want peta/dan/kuribo or sotty lynched more." Convenient position re: my wagon while staying pretty quiet overall - and honestly I thought our little talk before went pretty well, but apparently not - plus my earlier feeling that one of his posts was something I'd have written as scum, I could see BT as scum quite easily. Guilty.

Sottyrulez
- "The CDB hate is somewhat tasty" is all they've said about my wagon and that was a while ago. I want more than that, sotty, if you're going to go anywhere near my wagon any time soon. Guilty.


I'll bring this to her attention. She's currently more interested in lynching you than I am. (We're more in agreement on higher tier suspects at the moment though so... yeah.)
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Post Post #1517 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:53 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

NOSTREDEUS


Proposes a mass name-claim early on and gets shot down quickly. Reaction to it struck as town.

Shadoweh unvote in 461 potentially worrying as it left the wagon kinda while leaving the door open should we have fallen back into a deadline lynch or something. Would I have picked it out as scummy if I hadn't been reading Nost specifically in iso to judge him one way or another, though? I'm not sure; most likely not, I guess.

Slight backdown in position on TML between 582 and 693, I felt. It's subtle but it definitely feels like, when questioned, Nost just pulls back into something more acceptable. Again, though, I'm worried if I'm just seeing this because I'm isoing.

Absta's 725 mentions Nost for pretty much the first time and it's in a kinda coachy manner, explaining what's already there to Nost rather than being an inquisitive post. Maybe a slight hint at partners; they certainly don't interact much overall.

Nost's 1250 on the sotty-Jason D2 interaction is good, though, and feels like an honest "WTF?" town reaction to the business. He interprets it as sottyscum but at this point I'm more considering whether sotty and Jason might both be scum. The post does seem town, though.

Then going to read sotty's resulting vote on Nost, I don't much like it. It strikes me as scum seizing on just-too-convenient an excuse to move away from the Jason vote, their argument sufficiently played out for the cameras, and bringing up the TML thing from what is now actually quite a while ago.

Summary


Overall, reading through Nost was a little bit up and down but, allowing for the confirmation bias-y-ness of isoing someone specifically I think it comes out fairly town overall. Particularly the recent interaction with sotty, which I think certainly makes sotty come out looking worse and me strongly considering that sotty and Jason could be partners going too hard on the metadrama.

My apologies for the wall.
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Post Post #1518 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:02 am

Post by sottyrulez »

The vote on Jason was more about trying to get more out of him because our read had wavered. It was intended to get more out of him/a better read more than it was an actual intent to lynch.

If that's what you interpret as a convenient excuse to move away from the Jason vote, I'm just saying in response that I had pretty much always intended for the vote to actually move off him eventually. (Unless his responses convinced me he was scum, and they obviously didn't.)
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Post Post #1519 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:02 am

Post by The Baltimore Sun »

Day 2, Votecount 19

ChannelDeliBird (6) - Plessiezarus, Zdenek, The Mini-Librarian, kuribo, camn Nostredeus

kuribo (5) - Cerulean, JasonT1981, Benmage, BT, Ser Arthur Dayne
JasonT1981 (1) - ChannelDelibird
Kise (1) - sottyrulez

Not voting (3) :
ZONEACE, Deasvail, Kise

  • With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
  • Deadline is on 22nd of February at 00:30am GMT
  • Countdown to deadlien: (expired on 2013-02-21 20:30:28)
  • No one is V/la

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Post Post #1520 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:03 am

Post by sottyrulez »

Also I think you need to read our side of the nost exchange. (Your including it in an iso post indicates you've only read his side of that.)
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Post Post #1521 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:05 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

So I now have a scum suspect pool of: Jason, sottyrulez, BT, camn, The Mini-Librarian.

I'm interested in Jason/sotty as a general theory so I'll leave them out of this for time's sake but I'll now look at the latter three in iso with absta. I'll start with BT.

Absta and BT's interaction is, I think, very interesting. This is from BT's first post after replacing in:

In post 394, BT wrote:Someone who knows Absta should give me their opinion on #134. It's either scum being stupid nitpicky or town being stupid nitpicky and it sounds like an easy-to-read post with meta. (the bubbles comment seemed non-serious , hence nitpicky conspiracy theoreist mode)


It looks like he has an opinion on absta but he's actually leaving his options completely open - if what he half-points-out is accepted by other players and they run with it, he'll follow and take the credit, but if they don't, he can just ignore it, which he does indeed do.
absta never acknowledges this part of BT's post.


After this, both BT and absta go after camn, the latter more explosively but both express strong scum suspicion.
BT has not mentioned anything about camn since absta died.


UNVOTE: Jason, VOTE: BT
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Post Post #1522 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:06 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

In post 1520, sottyrulez wrote:Also I think you need to read our side of the nost exchange. (Your including it in an iso post indicates you've only read his side of that.)


I did read your part of it too. I wouldn't have felt comfortable making the judgement that I did without doing so.
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Post Post #1523 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:08 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

I should add that absta and BT ganging up on camn as they did makes me happy to discount camn from my scumpool for now.

Right now I think my best bet is BT, though I'm happy to return to the Jason vote if needs be, and either TML or sotty.
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Post Post #1524 (ISO) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:11 am

Post by sottyrulez »

CDB: If I may ask, how much would you say Sotty's comment about finding the interest in you tasty is influencing your suspicion of us?

I'm just curious.

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