The Wire, Season 1 - Final Credits!

[BT]

Yeah, but you never bothered to post anything that gives any hint that you seem to care about actually having an accurate read on camn at all. In a town mindset, it would be worth noting the flip at the very least makes her much less likely scum. (Or maybe you still had some reservations that it was a cross bus.) Something,

anything

that would indicate a genuine thought process.

Yes, it would have been better had I mentioned it, but I forgot, that much is obvious. It doesn't mean the thought process didn't exist. The point I'm making is that, while I have forgotten, it really doesn't point to scum, definitely not as much as you/CDB are saying it is. (in your case, enough to rank me above nost, who you have said plenty about)

[sottyrulez]

Yeah, but you never bothered to post anything that gives any hint that you seem to care about actually having an accurate read on camn at all. In a town mindset, it would be worth noting the flip at the very least makes her much less likely scum. (Or maybe you still had some reservations that it was a cross bus.) Something,

anything

that would indicate a genuine thought process.

Yes, it would have been better had I mentioned it, but I forgot, that much is obvious. It doesn't mean the thought process didn't exist. The point I'm making is that, while I have forgotten, it really doesn't point to scum, definitely not as much as you/CDB are saying it is. (in your case, enough to rank me above nost, who you have said plenty about)

More accurately it was a trigger that led me to reconsider my read.

[camn]

I think it is reasonable to think that since the scum actually thought they could mislynch me yesterday, before Absta got ruthlessly vigged, they were a bit out of sorts today, and scattered in re: their strategy to deal with me.

in fact... lets lynch BT.

UNVOTE
VOTE : BT

case to follow.

[Plessiezarus]

Why would jason be 3rd party?

Not saying we think he is at all. Only noting that our main reason for clearing him (the fact he was attacked on day 1 so much by TGAH), really only technically show he's not Police. But for now I'm working with the assumption that not-Police and town are synonyms, so it's only an academic distinction.

Plessie

the kuribo wagon is calling. He's your #2.

Would really prefer to lynch SAD, who both Zar and I think is the scummiest player in the game at this point. Kuribo's on the short-list for scum after that, sure, but I'm not completely sold. In the QT, Zar has started to really push hard for BT as scum, but I'm certainly far from convinced on that slot. I really should thoroughly read CDB's posts about BT and look into the claimed link with absta. (On the other hand, it's Friday night, so I'll probably be

going out drinking

staying in to do my German grammar homework instead .)

Don't suppose we can talk you into voting for SAD? What's your read on him?

Plessiez, do you think SAD is scum? If so, why? (I'm sorry if you've said this before. If so, just link to it)

Er, yes, we think SAD is scum.

Have said why in, among other places, 1082 and 1108.

In brief, we think SAD's scum because of the way TGAH aggressively supported him on day 1. Because he never really pushed absta as a suspect on day 1 (and instead seemed to coach him or defend his low activity without ever giving him as a town-read). Because absta in turn claimed some early suspicion of SAD but had him firmly in the "null" tier once the time came for serious reads. Because his reaction to absta's night-kill seemed more like that of an irritated partner who was annoyed at a "useless" teammate than like something we'd expect from town. And because he doesn't seem to have the confidence in pushing his reads that I'd expect from SAD as town (and the reads he gives are frequently inconsistent with things he's previously said in the game).

(I'm also tempted to say that I think his over-the-top spamming and smug boasts about being really good as scum are more likely to come from scum!SAD than town!SAD? But that's really just based on a quick skim of Open 472 (where he was scum) and NY 160 (where he was town), together with a memory of his last scum game on Westeros and a healthy dose of confirmation bias. Not even going to start trying to read all of SAD's posts on this site for a real meta-based case, because life is only so long, and even reading about the use of the subjunctive in written German seems more appealing.)

It'd be cool if people said they agree with me if they do because so far I'm still assuming sotty won't be lynched today

That is a very sensible assumption.

~ Pless

[Kise]

It'd be cool if people said they agree with me if they do because so far I'm still assuming sotty won't be lynched today

Vig or SK. I'll leave you to ponder that.

That post alone warrants lynching Kise. He's daring the town to vote him.

Assessing reads of my slot. Think about it..I go after Sha, camn, Nos and Pless. Shad gets hit by mafia, camn's other [former] antagonist gets killed the same night , Nos and Ples say nothing more to me. Felt weird that there was no follow up against me for those things alone.

It's like..I don't want to drop those because I think there's something there after finally getting around to isos, and then with absta dropping his entire case on camn the moment I also start looking her way just read like someone who didn't want to be involved in a vote that was actually possible. I'm also looking at that first SAD quote where he calls TGAH undercover police (hey, traitor, undercover) and the buzz going around that maybe scum knew they had a traitor. I notice cheeky things like that.

There's a lack of direct communication with me in your posts. No questions, just talking about me without me?

[The Baltimore Sun]

Day 2, Votecount 22

ChannelDeliBird (3) - Plessiezarus, Zdenek, The Mini-Librarian

kuribo (5) - Cerulean, JasonT1981, Benmage, BT, Ser Arthur Dayne

Kise (1) - sottyrulez
BT (2) - Channeldelibird, camn
Ser Arthur Dayne (1) - Deasvail

Not voting (4) :

ZONEACE, Kise, Nostredeus, kuribo

• With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 22nd of February at 00:30am GMT
  
• Countdown to deadlien: (expired on 2013-02-21 20:30:28)
  
• Nostredeus is V/la

[ZONEACE]

Beginning read NOW.

[Kise]

Procrastinators unite!




Not right now though, tomorrow.

[Cerulean]

Okay so I'm thought dumping. My apologies for the size of what's to come, but this is an amalgamation of the conversations empire and I have had over the past week concerning the slots we're most conflicted/concerned about. So this will basically be a proper hydra post, I guess. Actually, I'm going to break it up, so sorry for the long-winded spam actually. Pless - I will get to arthur tonight promise, but I'm going to talk about him last. Partly because I'm just putting it off, and partly because there are a couple things I want to think about and look at some more.

baby spice/kise

. Baby spice pretty much did nothing this game. Both of us just finished a game with baby spice!scum and while she feels a little different here I don't know if it's a change of circumstances. In castle zar she basically just white knighted town day one then took up the suspicion of the lynched town to run with the next day. But she seemed like she tried a little harder there? But she does tings that don't really make sense. So in Post 96 she declares that she thinks vifam is scum but leaves her rvs vote on Jason. None of her contribution was great, and much of it seems to be commenting on things just to comment. Then she had the weird first wagon pet theory thin ghat she never follows up on or explains. I remember when she was scum wanting to examine the first wagon as a pet theory thing too, but never followed up on it. This is probably something she does though regardless of alignment though so meh. One thing I don't have a problem with is the vifam meta thing. She actually does explain that she mixed up his town v scum meta. Which is easy enough to derp about.

But then enters kise. Kise just really hasn't done much. I had to go back and check out the recent Harry potter game because I remembered him as being more engaged in the game even though he wasn't real high activity. Like he was very thoughtful in his analysis, even though I think I thought he was scum a couple times there. His early posts are *okay* but there's too much sideline commenting and not much engagement. And too much promising content and not much delivery.

Empires ready to move our vote here to help out with a kise lynch, and I'm not going to do anything to stop a kise lynch at the moment. The only thing that is keeping me from moving it right now is a few tiny glimmers of genuineness in a couple of baby's and kises posts. (genuine isn't exactly the right word, but I see sparks of things that don't feel fake.). However, my reservation on this is that since there was a traitor, it's quite possible the scum team, thinking they were somewhat underpowered might have been honestly scum hunting, especially if they thought there was an SK out there.

And fwiw - I agree with whoever said its probably 4 + traitor. Balance isn't my strong suit, but in zach's ny146, there were 18 people to start, a 4 person scum team plus an sk. So this seems on par with that.

[Cerulean]

Oh and we both like cdb's contribution yesterday/today and don't feel as comfortable with that lynch as we did at the days start. And we both thought that Cdb/absta's interaction seems partnerish too. We don't like that he basically had to be prodded into delivering content, but I have seen this happen to town before that basically is coasting/is disengaged but gets whipped into action when it looks like they're about to be lynched for it. Okay scum can do this too, but I like his recent contribution. And his I'm not nervous, I'm just British in Post 1388 made me laugh. Probably one of my biggest mafia weaknesses is that if you make me laugh I'm predisposed to think you're town. Yes, I'm serious.

[Cerulean]

petapan/actiondan/kuribo

this slot has probably caused us the most trouble all game. We were conflicted/suspicious of petapan while he was here, and contrary to kuribo's claim, and while he might have a trollish type playstyle peta is a fine player who always plays to win. He's pretty difficult to read though, and one in particular that struck us rather suspiciously was that peta seemed to care a little too much how he was coming across in his interaction with benmage when benmage thought he was scum. The other stuff that was brought up was pretty much oar for the course with peta. As pless said when linking to abarat, peta is often a bit lost on day one. If I remember correctly, regfan said in that game that he tends to feel a bit lost in larges on day one, so that fit with what I know and have experienced with peta. It did strike me as odd that he didn't have a read of our slot though. As empire said before, they've played together for a couple of years and they've hydrad together, and while I wouldn't expect peta to feel comfortable reading me accurately on day one, I did think he'd be able to read empire. Empires easier to read than I am, and I'm fairly readable. I don't think that empire thought much of this because I've brought it up a couple of times and I don't remember him agreeing, so maybe I'm just Bleh. Anyway, I wonder if interactions like Post 297 and Post 298 are likely partner interactions. But empire thinks that Post 451 is quite unlikely to come from PETA talking to a partner.

Enter Dan - as pretty much everyone and their brother has commented on his replace in post was pretty bad. His oh gosh red gave me a heart attack read pretty fake

even though I had the same reaction and complained to faraday about it before realizing I was an idiot

. Anyway, beyond that which could have very easily been an attempt at a fake town tell, the reads were off as was his resulting interaction. My meta king other head had me read micro 31 because it had town bt, shadoweh, and Dan together. And the fact that that game has town Dan suspecting town shadoweh for a good portion of the game makes his superiority complex of how dare you read shadoweh wrong at the very start of the game really disingenuous. His whole demeanor was just really off. Im not an expert in dans meta, but I was able to read him really easily as town in the last game we played in, and even when my scum partner fake day poisoned him when he was a cop in heterosexual revolution he remained more composed than how he played here. (I am worried that I'm a little biased here though because his interaction with me made no sense and I feel like its coloring my view)

I still can't make a whole lot of sense of his neighborizing choice or for the way he needlessly postured around claiming when he knew the town wasn't going to stand for him keeping it a secret. He knows that who he chooses to neighborize and why is a way for town to get a better read on him so for him to act the way he did makes no sense. But honestly it makes no sense from either alignment.

Now I did take his counter claiming zdenek as a sort of town tell. Now the thought is that as scum, he would know zdenek was town, so why would he think he would be counter claiming town? (part of this falls apart for two reasons though. One is that if they were underpowered and they thought there was an sk, he might have thought he'd caught the sk in a lie. Two is that bt is right that his first "claim" came in Post 830 in which he claims He's a type of neighborizer. This is actually important. Him claiming he's *a type* of neighborizer indicates that he knows there are different kinds. So 8 minutes later, he *counterclaims* zdenek in Post 835. I took the counterclaim as genuine because why would you think that? But iirc Ben was arguing that it seemed forced and now that I look back and see that it wasn't him counter claiming right away, which would indicate town, but him posting once about a type and then counter claiming, it doesn't read as real as it did at first.

Here's part of my problem though. He neighborized deasvail, which wasn't one of the three on his list he offered to zdenek in Post 866. He didn't say he was trying to use the neighborhood for scumhunting purposes but talked about how he liked hydras but he neighborized deas vail be ause he thought he might be a hiding pr. Like this isn't a town reason for me and Dan replacing out in a snit fit doesn't help. I could just as easily see a scum neighborizer neighboring someone they thought was a or to both out that and deas vail I think would be a good choice to neighborize as scum for manipulation purposes. But I'm never going to get actual answers for this so Bleh.

As far as kuribo goes, I'm not that impressed. He's certainly posted a lot, but it's a bunch of meh. As said before his reasoning for strong town reading Arthur is meh. He gave a town read on benmage then challenged him to a 1v1 which was stupid before letting it go. Then there was a bunch of setup spec. I don't care if he thought that was part of his scum hunting he didn't do anything with it but speculate about the setup. Some of his later stuff has been somewhat all right, but it's by far the least bit of the contribution, and I also feel like he's been changing his play tactics to see what will work. Also I tend to find his playstyle type somewhat scummy. He seems like the type that just throws out shit to see what will stick, and while I can see that early day one to get the game moving once the game is moving it feels really disingenuous to me. So his constant, you thought PETA was scummy cause he's easy to lynch mantra thing is not only lame but it's something I can't see that he actually believes if he's played with PETA. And if I can't believe that you believe what you're saying, I have a hard time town reading you.

Anyway, there are some townie type moments in his later iso. When he stopped trying to bait me yesterday and he started actually commenting on the game and the players, I thought he might be town. But unfortunately the majority of his game is bluster and that doesn't help me with the read on the slot.

though any time someone is being more theatric/difficult than me it makes me happy in a weird sort of way

Overall, empire thinks that kuribo is a suboptimal lynch. I kinda agree. BUT as it stands right now, I almost just want this slot lynched and gone so I can stop agonizing over it. I'm almost of the mind that I don't care if it's a mislynch because I'm tired of worrying about it and because we have a little cushion. BUT the part of me that is still bitter over losing a town sweep in happy tree friends and thinks me is possible here is hesitant. Empire said he's basically Sheeping my thoughts right now, so I guess that means I get to keep my vote where I want it, and I don't feel comfortable moving it just yet. Maybe maybe if kuribo is town he will start behaving in ways that makes me give up my reservations on the slot but for now our vote stays here.

[jasonT1981]

Starting to see slightly were Sotty is coming from given this post. Still no where near enough to vote, but Kise is starting to slowly creep up the scum side of reads.

Will get the rest of my catch up posted tomorrow before I head out.

Procrastinators unite!




Not right now though, tomorrow.

[Cerulean]

Oh wow I'm only half done...imagine if I'd made that one wall

[Cerulean]

Fuck mcstab Post 531 I know absta's meta pretty well and this is town absta....

Zdenek I'm having a paranoia attack please to be confirming yourself to another strong town read tonight. Thank you.

[Cerulean]

vifam/bt

this is actually where I'm probably ready to stick my vote if it's not on kuribo or kise. It's actually probably where it should be right now, but I'm it done with kuribo and I still have some hope for kise.

Vifam didn't do much at all. And it is true that he posts in one liners and spams games as his playstyle, and empire showed me a quote where he basically said that he just likes to fuck around in games and occasionally lynch mafia, so it's kind of hard to get a grasp on him. I thought he was scum for the first two days in mafia stuck, but he was town. However, in between his random spam he was actually contributing to the game. Here not so much. Most of the stuff he talked about was rather off topic/flavor for the game. His actual content was minimal and he kind of felt like he was straining to do what he did.

As far bt meh. I realize Dan gave him obv-town points to him but eh. Here's my major problem with bt and it's kind of silly, but I feel like I have to wipe an inch of oil off my computer screen after every single one of his posts. I've gone back and read through mafia stuck that we finished playing together not too long ago, and I didn't get that feel from him at all. He seemed real in a way he doesn't feel here.

Also, ome of empire and my first thought was that the shadoweh kill made sense for a bt/absta team (also for Cdb but I've addressedhim).

His replace in post *seems* fine but some of it looks like an attempt to get that stream of conscious town style, like it's a self conscious attempt to show an evolution of reads. So heres my big thing. There too much this says this...that says that. For instance Post 556 which you knew what does look incriminating, but it's the type of post town makes all the time without thinking. Scum often try to be a bit more careful than being obviously contradictory in one post. It's kind of like his Post 485 where he's pointing out that camn is voting with pless while at the same time thinking pless might be scum. Scum LOVE using this tell when in reality it means absolutley nothing but it looks good, right? Town don't pay great attention all the time to who is voting whom and will vote sometimes without regard to who else is voting their scum read. Never mind the fact that scum bus sometimes or a myriad of other things cause the votes, so to use this is lame, but looks good because people buy into it and it doesn't cost you anything because you can point to thread evidence for whatever. But in reality it's shallow and bs.

Oh on Post 1195 concerning "ye" old scum read. Did you know that it's not really ye? The "y" actually transaliterates to "th"? So it's really just the olde scum read? Um okay this means nothing to the game I'm just a loser?

But really you never explain why you have a scum read on Dan? Your insistence on my answering the Dan question is weirding me out a little. Like you seem to convinced it was fake, which makes me wonder if you guys are partners. Because how else are you convinced it's a fake or at least trying to prove it was?

Also, really think he shadoweh death points to you. I can't make at reasonable sense for why she might have died otherwise. She was a nonentity and there were others who suspected absta, but she explicitly suggested suspicion in you as well. I also wonder if Dan had a hand in her death because wy the hell would he expect for her to die night one? But meh.

Also, what is bothering me is the way you're trying to discredit your attackers today. Like your defenses don't sound to me like an innocent. Like take Cdb for instance, he's been defending himself a lot, but he keeps talking about his own actions and explaining himself. But you seem o be throwing suspicion on your questioners and that makes me uneasy. Maybe part of this is that sottyrulez is one of our strongest town reads and your reactions to them look so bad that I can't really see it coming from an innocent.

All in all, part of me really wants to vote bt right now but I'm still stuck agonizing over the damn kuribo slot.

[Cerulean]

Oh I forgot to mention in regards to Dan telling me that my reads were bad. I'm Of two minds with this. He might have thought that I guess, but he's not been that rude to me in the games we've played together before, but my problem is that anyone who's played with me knows that I have a tendency to doubt myself and so there has been scum from time to time that has tried to make me doubt myself even more than I normally do. It's a good tactic I suppose.

[Cerulean]

Not a fan at all of nostredeus' vote on Sotty. Didn't like kuribo's vote on Sotty either but he removed it so that's all good, but nostredeus' vote was awful on all kinds of levels. Nost. I'd like you to explain what you think Sotty!scum has to gain by spending day one hard defending Jason only to turn around and push him today. How was their interaction forced?

I dunno what to tell you here but frankly scotty comes in with

"Vote jason"

and demands a response to that vote, jason responds with

"Not too sure what to make of Sottys vote TBH it is kinda weird they want me to respond to their vote before explaining it. "

to which scotty responds with

"You're not at all interested in what changed our opinion of you?"

then pushes hard with

"Please don't make me wait an entire weekend worth of time for a response this time."

as if Jason hadn't clearly pointed out he'd be V/LA over the weekend in question. Jason responds with

"I replied... I'm not wasting time by chasing after you asking why oh why did you change your mind... if you have a solid reason, you would have posted it by now."

which given that scotty hadn't posted a reason seems reasonable to me, scotty then does two weird things:

1) "So basically you care as much about what changed our position on you as you seemingly have about the game since about the halfway point of day 1?"

Which is clearly not what Jason is saying, maybe we're all speaking different languages but it looks to me like Jason is asking multiple times for the reasoning behind the vote.

2) "See, your early play hit what we know of your town meta to a T, but your play since has basically been coasting, and you've actually spent a large part of the game completely disinterested in our reads, which is another trait that is unlike town Jason and more like scum Jason."

Which strikes me as backwards; Scotty voted BEFORE Jason "seemed"(I'm using quotes given 1) disinterested in scotty's read, this can't be a reason for the vote and if it is it should at least be presented with an example from before the vote.


If Scotty didn't just force that then I honestly don't know what your definition of forced is but for me that's a pretty damn good example of it. I'm happy to say I think at least one of them are scum, I've already given reasons why I don't think it's Jason and now I've given reasons why I think it's scotty; my vote stands.

Like, I'm really not sure why you gave a rendition of the Sotty v Jason story or the way you told it. I really really want to Think you're town but you make it hard sometimes. Sotty has pretty much debunked a lot of your nonsense, but there's a few things that I think bear mention...

I told you your vote was awful for a reason, and that reason is you're voting one of my stronger town reads. I can pretty much guarantee you that nothing you will say will shake my read of them, but my comment and hope to get something from you helps with my read of you, and right now my thought is "dear gods, don't let him near lylo".

I don't see how Sotty did anything weird. Jason declares v/la every weekend, but is actually around far more than his posts let on that he is. I know this, and I don't even pretend to know Jason as well as Sotty has explicitly mentioned in thread that they do. So your how dare you criticize him for not responding in a timely manner when he's claimed v/la reads as a weird white knighting/just not paying attention to the thread in general.

My first thought to "maybe we're all speaking different languages" was yes, we're speaking english and I don't know what you're speaking. It was abundantly clear that Sotty was commenting on Jason's level of caring about the game. As they said later, Jason's coasting and seemingly to caring that they changed their position on him. This makes perfect sense to me. As an analogy, it's been mentioned that the pless hydra and I are friends. If they were to suddenly 180 their read on me and I didn't react at all, they would probably have a big problem with that. As they would have certain expectations for how town me would react, to that sort of thing.

And your second point is wtf as well. Sotty says that Jason's not interested in their reads period. So, again well take the pless hydra for reference. Do you see them asking for my read on arhtur? When people know each other well and are friends they often bounce ideas off each other in the thread. Now pless might be hoping to get a better read on me through my read on arhtur, or he could be hoping to get a better read on Arthur from my input. Regardless, bouncing ideas off people you play with and know is common and when it seems like that person isn't interested in that it can read as strange.

So it wasn't backwards as you say. Sotty didn't vote Jason for being disinterested in their vote on Jason, but on their reads in general.

Like I kinda think you're town due to tgah's push on you and because of some of your earlier stuff, also I think bt is white knighting you in a weird sort of way, but I need you to start thinking more clearly.

[Benmage]

I'm not gonna lie... I';m pretty fuckingdrunk... but I think I can do this:

Overall, empire thinks that kuribo is a suboptimal lynch. I kinda agree. BUT as it stands right now, I almost just want this slot lynched and gone so I can stop agonizing over it. I'm almost of the mind that I don't care if it's a mislynch because I'm tired of worrying about it and because we have a little cushion. BUT the part of me that is still bitter over losing a town sweep in happy tree friends and thinks me is possible here is hesitant. Empire said he's basically Sheeping my thoughts right now, so I guess that means I get to keep my vote where I want it, and I don't feel comfortable moving it just yet. Maybe maybe if kuribo is town he will start behaving in ways that makes me give up my reservations on the slot but for now our vote stays here.

---... I agree completely.... There's zero chance of me not lynching a kuribo in lylo. I doubt this game ever sees a lylo, nor would I be there.. but that's my point. Kuribo slots has to go.

[Cerulean]

And now for what I've been putting off...Arthur.

I'm going to be up front...this is going to be the most waffly of anything anyone has ever seen from me. Like, it's going to be bad. Sorry. I just don't feel confident at all.

Okay heres the basics. He would 100% rp the way he did at the beginning of the game as either alignment. Complete null tell. He would give his idea of the scum team whether or not it was accurate. Comets null tell. As I said before, Arthur contemplate the setup. Hed have most likely done that before the game even started, so wether or not he was scumand it confirmed what he though, he'd still say it. I also would not in a million years put it past him actually giving the true makeup of the scum team out early on. To think he wouldn't do this and that he's not scum because of it is exceedingly silly and I'm actually disappointed in kuribo for claiming he couldn't be scum otherwise after he admitted to playing with Arthur before.

Here's my problem, I feel pretty adept at reading Arthur. There probably hasn't been a month that has gone by in the past year that arhtur and I have not played together in some fashion. We've hydrad together, we've been scum partners, and modded each other. And in nearly every other game, I have given detailed reasons why he's town when a good number of people has thought he was scum. Hell in mafia stuck, several people thought that I was doing damage control when I finally started paying attention to the game and started posting.

So, pless is arhtur screaming scum at me? No. In the last game in westeros, I realized he was scum pretty quickly, and that was basically due to his trolling nature and little game content. This is really similar to the open lottery game that he posted. Deas vail wondered if arhtur was a try hard scum, and quite frankly it weirded me out a little when arhtur made those effort walls because it reminded me of his sudden content after I threw my mini tantrum at him in the westeros game for not doing anything other than shitposting.

If he was just shitposting it would probably be easier to read him, but I doubt even as scum he'd do that in a game with us after being called out for it correctly not too long ago.

Empire says that he's deferring to me for Arthur but that he thinks that everything arhtur has done so far could be easily faked. And I agree mostly.

I ont know what I think about the fact that he stopped his rp. I'm ambivalent.

His attitude sucks. I don't know if his ego is bolstered by his winning a recent scum game, nearly winning the game in westeros, or general maturing n the game. But the nature of his comments dont read town to me. For instance the "whoever is town reading me had better have a good reason" don't read town to me at all. Is weird posturing for Arthur.

His tone seems off? Does that make sense? He's blustering in a weird way and he never follows up. The most he says is that shadoweh should know better, but from memory shadoweh has only seen him as scum in heterosexual revolution so I'm not sure why she should know what he's capable of.

I would kind of feel so much better if Jason were scum here, because I could feel better about Arthur. However, they did go after each other in a weird way. Arthur started after him for going after him in his first rvs post, which makes no sense to me. Arhtur has always said that rvs posts count just like everything else, so for him to cry foul for Jason thinking his rvs posts suck makes no sense (now I know Jason is not averse to double bussing for tactical purposes, but I'm not Getting that feel here? Also, pless is right, he's not going after his targets as strongly as he usually does. When he was scum recently he didn't push his "suspects" all that much and he was quite self conscious in how others perceived his view on those suspects. When he's town he doesn't give a fick...he'll in mafia stuck he kept pushing vifam as if he were confirmed evil long after most people, including me had argued that he was most likely innocent.

Like, I'd probably feel better about him if he was in a single minded pursuit against Jason no matter the circumstantial evidence, you know? In fact, his "hold up Jason might be scum post" made me think he might be town. And he was right in the game he ousted, lottery addicts, he tends to AtE like hell as scum and really doesn't as town as much.

There are a couple things that make me think he's town though...the town read he gave to babyspice (unless she's scum), The day one push against Jason, The general lack of shitposting, His doling out town reads like he does in Post 397, I also kinda think one of us would be dead if Arthur was scum and had a say in who was killed.

(I don't know how he didn't have a scum read on absta though per Post 479 I thought he was legitimately scummy, but sometimes people are just wrong?)

Although if bt is scum as I think, there are some possible examples of arhtur chain swing. Actually it's weird that they don't give real reads on each other. I don't remember what arhtur thought of bt in mafia stuck but I remember that bt did not trust us much and Arthur is acting quite a bit different here than he was in that game...it seems odd to me that bt really hasn't mentioned him.

Oh wait Arthur does sayye thinks Dan is scum...don't know if he keeps it up though.

Here's the thing. I have the slightest of slight town reads on arhtur that I don't feel confident in at all. His light tunneling of Jason is townish, but he *feels* wrong.

Idk...I don't want him near lylo at all though.

Idk even more this game is crushing me. My scum reads keep making me think they're town and I'm just gonna go play some video games for distraction because tying to read Arthur right now is driving me insane.

[Benmage]

I only read the kuribo one... I can;t do this now.. sory.

[BT]

But really you never explain why you have a scum read on Dan? Your insistence on my answering the Dan question is weirding me out a little. Like you seem to convinced it was fake, which makes me wonder if you guys are partners. Because how else are you convinced it's a fake or at least trying to prove it was?

That's not it -- you said you read it as a towntell at the time and I disagreed with you (not because I thought it was a superincriminating scumtell but because it... wasn't a towntell, and the hesitation in his claim makes it lean scum overall (you seem to agree with this now?)).

My play this game doesn't seem that different from mafiastuck either, except for maybe explaining my town pov a lot more often? I can't do much if that's how you feel, anyway. I will say that I was wrong about my two d1 points that you brought up... I guess it was just me pointing out weird things first without thinking each point through. (more town pov *_*)

About the Shadoweh kill, outside of saying "i probably wouldn't have killed shadoweh" like a useless sack of bones I think a fair assumption would be that she was killed for being right.
Actually, the more I think about it, it's weird that she was killed for being right unless the scumteam were planning to sac absta early (d2?) anyway. In which case having another buddy help with the camn push is really dumb.

Finally, I don't see what's so bad about the sotty interactions. If it's another gut feeling than :whatever: but otherwise I think my points were sound. And I don't think I was throwing suspicion at my attackers... I'd even argue that it was the other way around (that is, I wasn't attacked by those I thought looked suspicious until I did).

I'll try and squeeze in a big post today either way.

(I think DV wanted a reply too so that'll happen then as well.)

[DeasVail]

Plessiezarus, vote SAD with me?

I know you kind of think I'm scum, but if I am, then joining a wagon with me as the only voter is something that scum probably wouldn't do, so you could be cleared!

I would like the Kuribo wagon to stop if possible though.

PEdit: Reading that post, I think he's trying too hard to address the points, when in some of the cases he doesn't really have anything to say (particularly the Shadoweh kill, but the whole post gives me that kind of vibe).

[BT]

Ohh

I think my meta is different because of a Say Everything Anyway mentality

DV, do you think this is scummy or not?

[BT]

Uhh, "this" being what you pointed out, but I guess you can answer that too

[DeasVail]

I think it's scummy.