Open 473: Jungle Republic GAME OVER

[Whiskers]

You just WIFOM'd your WIFOM. I give you props for trying the WIFOMx2, but it's a loldefense.

K, then I guess ignore it like you would do WIFOM. A loldefence is all you're going to get from me until there's an attack, so.

[Whiskers]

Sky was in my pool of likely remaining scumbutts but then POE'ed out when I came with my final list of {Thor, Whiskers, HD}

Oh cool, confirmation bias. It's good to know that your lack of arguments have such a strong effect that you've convinced yourself.

That's not even close to what occurred? I... I don't even know how to respond to something this stupid. It's like someone saying that it's night-time because the sky is orange.

Ok, direct me to the post where you gave a list of reads and explained them. When did you decide on "Thor, Whiskers, HD"?
What you're saying is, you thought Sky was scummy, but then decided that those three were scum instead. I'm missing the part where this is a good idea.

^^Can anyone tell me why Majiffy'd call me a liar, if it didn't change anything of merit?

Can you?

I can't.
Either it should have made her more scummy, in which case now she is less since you recognize you are wrong.
Or it was pointless to bring up.
Am I missing something?

And of course, this.

I'd still like you to answer. Primarily because your question had a leading quality to it.

It did, didn't it?
I see two options:
1. You're town and pointed out something that "doesn't change anything of merit," just automatically contradicting me since your reads are so well set in the cement.
2: You're scum and pointed out something that "doesn't change anything of merit" to try to discredit me or make me look bad.
3: You're scum and tried calling me a liar, but when I showed the opposite, you declare it "doesn't change anything of merit" in an attempt to sweep your mistake under the rug.

Can YOU give me a reason why TownMajiffy would call me a liar, if it doesn't change anything of merit?

[Rob14]

Whiskers, your defense is silly.

Having lied would have made you more scummy. Not having lied doesn't make you more town, however.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers, your defense is silly.

Having lied would have made you more scummy. Not having lied doesn't make you more town, however.

Not really. Why call me out for lying about something that is of no consequence? Lynch all Liars? Then, what's to stop me turning around and making the same accusation (you're lying) against Majiffy?

What if I say, "Where's the scum motivation for Whiskers to lie about something that doesn't change anything of merit?" Hell, where is

any

motivation? It doesn't change anything of merit, so there's no benefit to my lying.

Even if I had been wrong here, even if I had been wrong and

scum

here, it's far more likely it'd be a mistake, not lying. Let's put my meta of [not lying] aside, and just say that, since there is no scum motivation to lie here, scum would not lie here, but everyone makes mistakes. Is it scummy to make mistakes? Especially when it's about something of no merit?

My

point,

as usual, is that there is a good reason for scum to call someone else a liar over something that doesn't change anything of merit: "liar" holds a connotation that the person is scummy.

[Whiskers]

Although, maybe I should back off this particular point; Majiffy never said "liar" outright. We've all seen Majiffy is slow to use such strong words. Remember how Thor had to push Majiffy to make an accusation? Majiffy is a much better supporting role, gently supplementing other people's attacks with sarcasm and insults.

[Majiffy]

Ok, direct me to the post where you gave a list of reads and explained them. When did you decide on "Thor, Whiskers, HD"?
What you're saying is, you thought Sky was scummy, but then decided that those three were scum instead. I'm missing the part where this is a good idea.

Read my ISO.
Start at Post 819.
Progress until Post 939.

Success! Now you're reading the game!
(If you'd like further backstory on how I got each read, I suggest you read the rest of my ISO)

Can YOU give me a reason why TownMajiffy would call me a liar, if it doesn't change anything of merit?

You ignore the possibility that I didn't recall that specific occurrence and - being something that you brought up - asked you to evince it.

Not really. Why call me out for lying about something that is of no consequence?

It's of no consequence being

true

. Being false would obviously have been.

And meanwhile this entire dayphase you have been perpetuating (yes, that's what all your posts on this page have been, as the points have long since been dropped and you keep bringing them up) an argument with a player

you won't even lay a vote on

, and continue to make

no effort

to try to scumhunt elsewhere.

[ProHawk]

This game is getting way too boring for me to keep checking. Gonna cave and put Whiskers at L-1.

VOTE: Whiskers

[Sky]

Neither happened.
That said, why did you miss the discussion of my sitewide V/LA that was had in this thread considering how much a part of your case it is?
Or are you only reading my posts?

I have been reading your posts. Explain why you were active in other games.

For the record, what ou're responding to here - I was probably not being honest when I said I agreed that you weren't the lynch. If you find me saying that I did agree to that yesterday though I'll self-vote. But, as discussed, I wasn't even around during the period people moved off you, so saying it was scummy I stayed there while also saying it was scummy I wasn't around is derp - they're the same issue and the second doesn't make much sense considering the first.

I'm failing to see why you revived a dead wagon and disappeared right before the deadline at the most critical point of the game. If that's not throwing a wrench in the gears I don't know what is.

Sky do you have any reason other than "dick swinging players" to support why you aren't willing to vote Whiskers, despite prompting Thor to do the same?

He followed Thor's lead yesterday near the end, which was a bad move. Could you outline the case briefly because it's really hard to wade through that and it's president's day and all. Another reason I haven't voted him yet is because I don't think a lot of the players on that wagon are town.

Thor is right, this is terribad. Your argument defeats itself; if Thor was trying to save his bud, why not vote Whiskers, a far more potent wagon? Did you think this through before you wrote it?

...aannnd you're argument defeats itself. WIFOM.

And now you are going out of your way to make irrelevant points look scummy. You seem desperate to attack Thor, with frankly pathetic arguments, and I want to know why. For now, you shot to #1 on my list.

Irrelevant? He "forgot" to do something at the most crucial part of the day.

[Majiffy]

So you have a problem with Thor, but aren't willing to vote [Whiskers] the player whom "followed his lead".
And you have a problem with the people on the Whiskers wagon, of which Thor is not a part of.

I'm not gathering any sort of cohesion whatsoever from anything you're doing, attempting to do, or talking about.

[Thor665]

So you have a problem with Thor, but aren't willing to vote [Whiskers] the player whom "followed his lead".
And you have a problem with the people on the Whiskers wagon, of which Thor is not a part of.

I'm not gathering any sort of cohesion whatsoever from anything you're doing, attempting to do, or talking about.

This is one of the most clever posts Majiffy has made yet this game.
Sure, limited competition, but still.

[4nxi3ty]

re: Thor "pretending not to know why I think whiskers is werewolf or that I had him and sky as a scumteam"
see post 989
and this:

When I was attacking sky, thor attempted to poke holes in my arguments, felt like he was running interference. Then him throwing questions at sky but never stating any actual suspicions gives off an impression of soft bussing.

re: Whiskers going "Why would I make that night kill?"

Whiskers: nice job screwing up all over page 24. What kind of ate crap is that, where you embrace middling of the road based on you not knowing anything ? That's trying to be nice to everyone and not piss people off by voting them. Are you afraid of bring wrong?

Sky focusing on thor(who was a null read to him yesterday), instead of his scumreads of me and ph, looks like a panic bus move after a ucitron flip.

[Josh Lyman]

Fifth Votecount (Day Two)

Sky: (3) Thor665, Tajun, Human Destroyer
Thor665: (1) Sky
Whiskers: (5) 4nxi3ty, auspicious, Rob13, Majiffy, ProHawk

Not Voting: Whiskers

(expired on 2013-02-28 04:19:34)

10 alive, 6 for lynch

V/LA: 4nxi3ty until Saturday

[Thor665]

@Anxiety's case of wtf

Why would sky need to panic bus after a Uct flip, how were they connected?
You connected me to Uct (poorly since all you did was, I think, hint that because he didn't want to lynch me I have to be his buddy, but, hey) but the Thor/Sky connection is 'Thor wants to lynch Sky so it has to be a bus' And now the connection the other way is 'Sky wants to lynch Thor'
What if I wanted to lynch you? Would that make us likely buddies? And then you saying I'm mafia now would confirm it? Hey, everyone, I want to lynch Anx too! Oh, snap, now we're just as connected. What gives with this?

Also, frankly, if you think it's all a panic double cross bus, why not vote Sky?
Also, all I see in your Whiskers = werewolf case is 'here's every post where Ald mentions Whiskers with no actual commentary from me explaining how it makes them look like buddies' so...yeah, I'd still like some clarification.

[4nxi3ty]

Why would I vote sky over whiskers, who I think is a werewolf? that should be obvious.

I did leave commentary tho

*ald wanted to bus yet didn't want whiskers lynched (ucitron's posts should be self-explainatory)

in later posts as well, I talked about whiskers trying to discredit her buddies attacker and I pointed out aldus trying to lampshade whiskers' defense of him.

Since you thinks whiskers is scum, what faction do you think she belongs to?

As for uct:
saying 'thor townslipped' and then not placing you in his townreads is very odd.
was he trying to buddy up to you?
was he trying to tie himself to you?
most likely he was wary of placing a buddy in the town section after being called out for the use of the term townslip.

Hopefully Page 14 is the last page that's dedicated to Thor and Majiffy: Trouble in Paradise.

Thor and Majiffy = gigantic distractions. If I had to put money down on it, I'd say Majiffy won the beat down. As far as alignment goes, I'll buy them as being opposite sides. The "winner" of the bout would then knock out the other massive player and then try to run the game at that point.

reeks of him already knowing one of you is scum. And he would welcome any distractions that didn't involve a buddy.

and ucitron using "meta" to push idea that "thor is not a good early game lynch" is suspect.

As for you and sky, its about the timing of your attacks.

how you only voted sky when there was zero momentum, when everyone was raring to lynch aldus

how sky doesn't mention his top scumreads from yesterday at all, instead tunnels you. It is a significant change and the only thing I can think of that points to the change is the ucitron flip, him being afraid that town or wolf might figure out a connection between him and ucitron, and feeling the need to distance from a buddy cause he might die next.

[Thor665]

most likely he was wary of placing a buddy in the town section after being called out for the use of the term townslip.

Why is that one most likely?
It's the most specific, which suggests it's actually least likely - just me?

[Whiskers]

Not really. Why call me out for lying about something that is of no consequence?

It's of no consequence being

true

. Being false would obviously have been.

What? What is it? What's the consequence, had it been false?

And meanwhile this entire dayphase you have been perpetuating (yes, that's what all your posts on this page have been, as the points have long since been dropped and you keep bringing them up) an argument with a player

you won't even lay a vote on

, and continue to make

no effort

to try to scumhunt elsewhere.

The points have only been dropped because you're in control of the argument. People are skipping or skimming my posts; I'm being ignored. Don't know what you're even trying to do, saying I'm "perpetuating the dayphase". I didn't self-hammer, was that your point?

Ah, you misplaced your parenthetical.

It's a completely different argument. You ended the last one when my argument made sense.


Also, fucking bullshit:

This is me talking with 4nxi3ty and you butting in

Spoiler:

definitely.
With the way thor, uct, and sky interact.
and take into account how whiskers has no problem with majiffy arguing with thor(in fact whiskers praises majiffy) yet when he argues with ald whiskers feels the need to step in.

Majiffy

asked

me

about Ald's post and when I said, "What do you mean?" he made a post about how he thought Ald's attacks on him were bad.

Lol quote please. This never happened.

This is me replying to Thor, with you butting in

Spoiler:

I thought Whiskers' defense lacked any real logic - hence was scum defending suspected town for town points later.

My logic was that everybody was voting a null read. There were tons of posts like, "I'd be willing to switch to Aldus" or "Aldus is still a good wagon, but...", but I don't think I ever saw a case on Aldus himself. As far as I can tell, most players didn't have a read, or had a null read, on Alduskkel and were lynching a lurker. I thought the posts Aldus did have were pretty good, asking the right questions etc. With these powers combined, I townread him.

but I don't think I ever saw a case on Aldus himself.

>Spent the end of the day arguing against an Aldu case

If you don't want me to argue with you, stop derailing my arguments with other players. I'm already the favourite lynch for today so make a case or gtfo.

[Thor665]

@Whiskers - why no vote yet?

[Rob14]

As for uct:
saying 'thor townslipped' and then not placing you in his townreads is very odd.
was he trying to buddy up to you?
was he trying to tie himself to you?
most likely he was wary of placing a buddy in the town section after being called out for the use of the term townslip.

This is a great point and something I had missed.

Either way, Whiskers is today's lynch. Multiple people who aren't voting him have him in the scum column (Thor and Sky IIRC) but are refusing to vote because they'd rather vote one person they think is scum over another person they think is scum. That makes me uneasy. Why are you so reluctant to hammer a scum-read? It doesn't make sense.

This game is dragging horribly. Just hammer and be done with it.

[Thor665]

@Rob - Sky has claimed Whiskers as a strong town read - try to keep up.
I have called her scummy though.
What's your read on Sky?

[Rob14]

@Rob - Sky has claimed Whiskers as a strong town read - try to keep up.
I have called her scummy though.
What's your read on Sky?

Early scum read on Day 1. Nothing too memorable Day 2. I need to re-read a lot of what's happened recently because I keep going to do it and my eyes glaze over at all the walls and useless nonsense.

[Thor665]

And yet you're so certain Whiskers needs death that you want the dragging game to move forward?
How about you get me a read on Sky and then you can declare the game as slow and draggy.

[Rob14]

Went back and read some stuff. Today Sky seems more genuine and I don't see the pattern of his voting and read development on Whiskers as either town or scum.

If Sky is scum and Whiskers is on the other team (meaning Sky is the wolf), then he would not be defending Whiskers or pulling off of that read when he had suspicions of Whiskers going all the way back to early Day 1. He'd easily be able to hammer and look genuine doing it. The same holds true for if Sky is scum and Whiskers is town.

If Sky is scum with Whiskers, then he was bussing early when Whiskers had a wagon on him. I don't see why he would be so willing to bus early, but not willing at all to bus later in that same day or this day. Not seeing it. I guess it could be because they lost a team member, but that also raises some issues. Uct pushed Sky pretty hard in the last game day. I don't see that interaction as scum v scum.

So Sky is a weak town read of mine. There's not a whole lot there that rings ObvTown, but there's a whole lot that points to "not scum" in my opinion.

[Thor665]

@Rob - you don't think there's any reason a willingness to bus might shift between Day 1 and Day 2? You literally just called me out for the same sort of thing, why is it town for him and scummy for me?

[Rob14]

I never called you out for willingness to bus shifting. Maybe you're interpreting something weird, but please point out what you mean exactly.

I don't think that it is plausible that Sky was entirely willing to bus early Day 1, pulls off his partner late Day 1 for no reason (making it look like a genuine transition as well), and then against bussing entirely Day 2 when it's obvious that his potential partner is going down. That in combination with the uct stuff makes me think Sky cannot be scum with uct and Whiskers.

[Majiffy]

It's of no consequence being

true

. Being false would obviously have been.

What? What is it? What's the consequence, had it been false?[/quote]
Deflecting and lying to make your actions seem less significant; it is much scummier for you to have actively taken up the defense of Aldu without prompting than it is having been prompted.

The points have only been dropped because you're in control of the argument. People are skipping or skimming my posts; I'm being ignored.

Speaking of... Good job not actually addressing anything I said, and then deflecting onto me as if your points are somehow valid but ignored.
I'm in control of the argument, and your posts are being ignored. Yes.
Why? Because you're wrong and everyone else

already knows

.

This is me talking with 4nxi3ty and you butting in

Right, where you directly referenced me and an action I did not recall occurring. That's totally "butting in". Mhmm.

This is me replying to Thor, with you butting in

So calling you out on a blatant lie is "butting in" now? Lololol