AMURIKA MAFIA - Game Over

[Konowa]

Sidebar, I love having the authority to write the bar schedule now. Means I can be off on Saturdays.

c[_] and then I'll make some points today.

[Konowa]

This is sort of a rambling post.

unvote;

Vote on Hiraki isn't doing anything right now. It's more gut than anything else. I think the over the top defense of Joel as noobTown is more likely to come from a buddy than Town. As I read I already knew Angel was Town, so that probably biased my thoughts a little, but in comparison her Joel as noobTown read seemed more genuine as she drew on previous experiences (and after playing with Angel in a few games I can say she doesn't have that gambit in her).

In light of this page, I'm starting to believe the remaing Scum are gm and Jason. I think gm's early push on the slot over something I think is null and then lack of attempt to further it is more likely to be a Scum/Scum interaction. Furthermore, if Town I think Jason woul be doing more about gm's push instead of just trying to brush it off. Also, even though it may have been a "pathetic" question, asking Jason who else is Scum -is- a valid question and attempting to brush it off otherwise is not Town behavior.

I need to go back over what little there is of PV and try to distinguish if he is actually useless in this backwards thinking or what.

I think bulb is Town and that votes on him are bad (I don't think bulb and Jason makes sense as remaining Scum). I think Cryo is Town and needs to take the confirmation bias stick out of their collective ass.
I think chamber needs to be grateful and get his mod confirmed ass in here.

[Konowa]

Oh,

Vote: Jason

I think Jason flipping Scum would clear up a number of reads.

[Bulbazak]

Yep, definitely liking Konowa as town a lot more, although I still think he is wrong about Morning. His post #551 has town written all over it. Cryo, why else do you think Konowa is scum other than Dr.B being absent?

[CryoChemist]

/meh, honestly trying to get scum to jump on a weakish wagon.

[Gorgon]

Apologies for not posting. My laptop gave up the ghost yesterday so I have no regular Internet access outside of office hours or when I am visiting someone who can lend me a computer (like right now) until I get it fixed. I will have more time to post something useful tomorrow at work. Anyway, I still like my vote, for what that's worth.

[Konowa]

Maybe I'm missing something, haven't reread since last post, so can you say why I'm wrong about gm, bulb?

[Nachomamma8]

Machiavelli is one of my favorite people in history, ever. He’s misrepresented hard by our English language at present, and I guess I have a soft spot for people who keep getting strawmanned.

Votecount 2.3:

Konowa (2): CryoNudist, PeregrineV
Bulbazak (3): chamber2, Hiraki, JasonWazza
JasonWazza (4): goodmorning, Bulbazak, Gorgon, Konowa
PeregrineV (2): SaintKerrigan, DansAdvent

Not Voting (0):

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-02-28 18:00:00)

[Hiraki]

is more likely to come from a buddy

so was it gut

or not?

[Gorgon]

Bulb sums up the Om/Jason case pretty well in #539. I think Jason's play has not been convincing so far. He voted Bulb early on for what I feel is a pretty weak reason and since then he has mostly spent time defending his slot. Speaking of Bulb, he feels townish to me and I would not vote him over Jason if it comes down to that (since he is currently the only other real wagon going on). Hiraki's point about Bulb saying he didn't mind being wagoned and then looking like he did mind when he got wagoned hard is admittedly something that I pegged as scummy at the time, but I think he explained that in a pretty plausible and consistent manner; he did use his wagon to scumhunt using the working theory that scum would be on his wagon, and it turned out there was at least one, i.e. joel. There's been a pretty townish 'flow' to his reads in general.

but I find no real reason to believe that joel is lying about it or misrepresenting what goes on there when he knows that this is in theory easy to check

Just to note, since I missed this in block of text skimming deluxe

but this is literally the dumbest logic ever (part like 9 now)

just because something is easy to do doesn't mean that people will do it

if i tell you that a guy has a penis, will you check if he has one?

I'll concede that it's a bit lazy logic, but it's still logic and not really that stupid. I mean, scum don't usually make blatant lies since the price of being found out is so high. If you lie that a guy has a penis and you know that I could very easily check it and you'll be in big trouble if you're lying, it's mostly you who would be stupid. It would be even more stupid to do this to a group of people, most of whom have a vested interest in picking through every word you say to find fault with it. I like all logic like that which saves me some legwork.

/meh, honestly trying to get scum to jump on a weakish wagon.

That tactic probably won't work now that you've admitted that it's what you're doing, so who are your real top suspects?

[Bulbazak]

Maybe I'm missing something, haven't reread since last post, so can you say why I'm wrong about gm, bulb?

Several things make me think she's town. She was asking questions and trying to further discussion, which is different from her scum game. Her pressure on AA9 in #74 is warranted. She then explains that vote further here. She actually explained why Joel's bet was bad for the town here and backed it up here. Her defense against AA9's brutal attack reads town. She shows suspicion of Om here and here, which shows that is not a recent development. She then defends her actions in a consistent manner here and here. Her response to you is correct. Quit glossing over it and think about what she's saying. Finally, the clincher is that I've seen her scum play in Newbie 1305, and this is not it. Check it out if you don't believe me. Morning is town. Deal with it.

[goodmorning]

@Mod: I DON'T WANNA
There's only been 15 posts since last I posted and one of those is a votecount WHYYYYY

readslist, since we obviously just need to lynch Jason already, I mean what the fuck is taking so long, seriously
Um, Jason is Scum
PV looks odd
So does Dan/Sora
Flipflopping on Gorgon
Bulba and Cryo are Town
Konowa's probTown
StK is likely Town

chamber needs to get the fuck in here and post some shit

[Bulbazak]

@Nacho: Can we have the deadline in the vote count please? It gets hard to do simple math when you're trying to keep track of events in multiple games.

[Hiraki]

Looking at the wagons, I might be able to support PeregrineV but I'm not very set on Jason or Konowa(the latter being a definite no-no for today)

Can anyone give me a better case on Jason than "he's been on and off lurking?"

he's been doing that in several games.

[Bulbazak]

I gave a case in post #539. Please keep up.

[Hiraki]

1.) Om implied several people were scummy without putting any pressure on them or taking a definitive stance on them, something he wrongly criticized Gorgon for earlier in d1. He implied that Gorgon was scummy for not putting Joel at L-1 early in d1. He implied that Morning was scummy for pressuring AA9. He thought that Hiraki was acting scummy, even though he stated that he did not think he was scum, and then followed that up by saying that he could be in a scum team with me, therefore implying I was scum as well. Finally, at the start of his conversation with SK, he implied that she was scummy as well.

>implied

2.) Om said that AA9 was town BECAUSE Joel was scum. There are 2 things wrong with this. First, his absolute certainty that Joel was scum. There was no if here. Second, his reason for AA9 being town didn't track, as Morning refuted it immediately. Most everyone else thought that AA9 was scum partners with Joel, including myself, who thought I saw evidence of chainsaw defending in AA9's posts. Konowa is wrong in his assertion that AA9's flip only benefited Morning's argument against Om/Jason, as the flip would have given credence to Om's post calling AA9 town and Joel scum, thus giving him town cred. This is further supported by Jason going out of his way to highlight the fact that AA9 did indeed flip town, again as a way to gain town cred.

This is a illogical statement, not a scummy one.

3.) Om and Jason's votes have been opportunistic. Om was the fourth vote on the Joel wagon for sheeped reasons. Likewise, Jason was the fourth vote on my wagon for a bad reason as well (He voted me because I was asking Hiraki questions.). Jason's vote reads as opportunistic on a growing wagon, much like Om's reads as a bussing attempt on an idiot scum partner.

Repeat questioning either shows someone isn't reading, or they are trying to get an answer that suits them that they can jump on, at this point i can see bulb doing the latter

Yeah. Not really.

4.) As I've mentioned before, I found Om's exchange with SK horribly scummy bad. Within a few short posts, he misrepped SK in an attempt to make her look scummy, he backpedaled when she pressured him about his reasoning, and finally he deflected the course of questioning by changing the subject when SK continued to apply pressure. It was at this point that my scum read on Om began.

This is Om, who I'm seriously not interested in.

5.) This point was not part of my original case, but I feel as I should make it now, since it is both recent and relevant. Jason recently refused to answer one of Konowa's questions. A desire to hamper discussion is a major scum tell for me, and discussion is furthered by questions. Jason's refusal to contribute to discussion just screams scum.

Who else is scum?

I'd refuse to answer this question as well, so nope.jpg

[Bulbazak]

Hiraki, Om and Jason are the same slot. I'd go into this further, but I feel that I'd be wasting my time, since Hiraki has shown an unwillingness to engage or further discussion. I'm done dealing with his anti-town behavior.

[Hiraki]

ok

[SaintKerrigan]

prod dodge

sorry guys been busy, will try to get something later tonight

[PeregrineV]

@bulb- I don't remember- ill have to read back through.

Unvote

New vote pending retread.

[JasonWazza]

Woops i got prodded and may have totally forgot about this game.

Haven't got time to write a massive post so give me some time to write something up >.>

[CryoChemist]

This game has become very boring.....

VOTE: JasonWazza

[Hiraki]

uh

there's 10 days left in the day

if you're literally compromising due to lack of activity

then you pay

[CryoChemist]

Hrm....we'd like to kill Konowa, but your case isn't without merit bulb.....we will probably be willing to switch if the rest of you don't want to lynch obv-scum with us (psst, talking about Konowa).

Also, L-1 =/= mean the Day's over.

[Hiraki]

Wasn't Jason who you're referencing in that post.