Open 474 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over!

[serrapaladin]

VOTE: Serra

Already explained what I didn't like about his handwavy "let's start some wagons" thing.
#920 is self WIFOM. I agree with #987 that a serra scum-flip strongly implies Jacob town.

Hydra's defense of serra summarized in #983 (and introduced earlier) IS WIFOM and HD is correct for pointing that out -- additionally I think serra's read changes and jump on the GM wagon are much more telling pieces of evidence than the fact that HD straight up defended GM yesterday: I don't know that I see scum do that to each other very often at all, even in 3+ scum games.

I also don't think hydra is scum, as I've said, I just think he has an overly simplistic view of how yesterday went down.

@ArcAngel, serra: your wagons are not happening (nor is mine). Throw support somewhere else.

You can't just wave WIFOM around and call people scum or town as a conclusion. 920 was asking what scum-motivation I could have had in doing what I did. If you can't find an answer, that doesn't mean my defense is invalid WIFOM.

Also your defense of Josh while the Hydra was pushing Josh makes you look scummy to me.

So you're going on the assumption that the Hydra is also scum?

Not really, I was just bringing it up. Really you're the only person I'm absolutely sure is scum, the Hydra just seems like a likely partner for you.

So surely if I'm more scummy than the Hydra, associative tells between us should go the other way. I don't understand why I would be scum for defending Josh (someone we have all but accepted as a townie by now) while the Hydra was pushing him. You're trying hard to sound as though you aren't just sheeping HD on my wagon.

I still think Jacob, Nic and maybe HD and the Hydra are scummy.

I guess I'll

VOTE: Jacob

[ArcAngel9]

.

And the minute passed hours ago Jacob. Can you be scummier than this?

VOTE: Jacob
unless you get back your arse here and explain yourself... and No drawings...

[ArcAngel9]

Hydra - What is your read on Serra? Town or Scum?
and what do you think of Jacob?

[Docteur Gudsight]

Hydra - What is your read on Serra? Town or Scum?
and what do you think of Jacob?

Seriously, read the thread. The answer of the first question is in half my posts. The answer of the second one shouldn't be very hard to find either.

[Human Destroyer]

@bork:

If serra is scum, who do you think his partner is?

@Cheery:

Do you agree that someone starting a counterwagon to their supposed strongest scumread on their second-strongest is weird?

@Arc + Serra:

If Jacob is scum, who do you think his partner is?

@Jacob and Klick:

Content pls

[serrapaladin]

@Arc + Serra: If Jacob is scum, who do you think his partner is?

Nic. Possibly you.

[Human Destroyer]

Reasoning?

[borkjerfkin]

@bork:

If serra is scum, who do you think his partner is?

I tend not to bother with positive connections pre-flip unless it's some weird scenario where nobody makes sense as a viable partner. This is not one of those times.

As for negatives, it's probably not you or hydra -- your stances on serra are too hardline.

[Jennifer]

I'm back from vacation, and will catch up later today. I loosely followed and it looks like today's lynch is among HD, Hydra or Serra, so I'll plan to focus mostly on those 3.

[Docteur Gudsight]

So, if i'm following you, bork, according to your #992, saying that someone that helped lynch scum is probably town *is* WIFOM.

However, saying that if serra flipping scum, then people with a hard stance on him are probably town is legit reasoning.

Can you explain me what is WIFOM for you?

[borkjerfkin]

I'm saying that you just can't say that "X was driving Y's wagon and Y was scum therefore X is town"

Interactions are subtler than that.

[Docteur Gudsight]

Is helping to lynch scum on d1 guaranteed town? No of course.

A valid d2 lynch when many people have acted much more suspiciously regarding goodmorning (see Jacob)? Definitely not.

--

In your posts, you are basically saying that strongly defending scum is less suspicious than defending a town counterwagon when scum is being wagoned. This is total crap.

[borkjerfkin]

In your posts, you are basically saying that strongly defending scum is less suspicious than defending a town counterwagon when scum is being wagoned. This is total crap.

I'm only arguing that circumstantially, but really it's not total crap. Scum knows they'll take heat for defending other scum and won't endeavor to do it. Town sometimes is just wrong.

[Docteur Gudsight]

Well at the very least it's total WIFOM.

[borkjerfkin]

It's really ballsy WIFOM from scum. It's more of a "this is behavior I tend to see more often from town than from scum" because most scum are disinclined to hard buddy their partners.

[borkjerfkin]

But seriously, this type of shit is why I don't go looking for partners pre-flip.

[NicCage]

pst... we don't have a lot of time left

[Jennifer]

Ouch... I just checked CityElectric's last post and saw that the

day ends in 17 hours.

Nic is town to me for pointing that out.

Okay, guys, we need to get a lynch together and fast.

UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:
Docteur Gudsight (L-3): Cheery Dog, Jennifer, Klick
Human Destroyer (L-4): Docteur Gudsight, KX
serrapaladin (L-3): Human Destroyer, NicCage, Bork
NicCage (L-5): serrapaladin
Jacob (L-4): Serra, Arc

Not voting (1): JacobSavage

@Jacob

Why aren't you voting anyone?

Hydra and Serra are both with the most votes at the moment. I would switch to Serra if need be to secure a lynch. Are there two others that would? Or conversely, others willing to switch to Hydra?

[Human Destroyer]

Yeah I'd be willing to switch to Els

[Docteur Gudsight]

I will obviously switch to serra if the only other options are my lynch or a no-lynch.

[JacobSavage]

I'm not voting anyone because I've kind of been distracted all of this day.

Anyway I'm happy to go along with a Serra lynch for now, we only have 17 hours so.
I also think Hydra are probably town but there we go.

VOTE: Serra

That's

L-2

.

[KX]

Having read over one more time, my suspicion of HD has cleared somewhat, however, I maintain my belief that serra is town. As such, VOTE: Vote: Doteur Gudsight. I don't see a Nic wagon getting much momentum, and they still seem suspicious, even if not as much so.

[borkjerfkin]

I really really don't want to lynch Hydra -- 1019 seems extremely town.

[Cheery Dog]

I need to review some stuff, but I'm happy to switch.

[serrapaladin]

Yesterday I pointed out how we should start compromising and got called scummy for it. I also said I was willing to lynch someone I'd been defending to avert an NL. I have no idea how Bork thinks 1019 is EXTREMELY TOWN for Hydra, but not for me yesterday.

If we can't get a Jacob wagon, I would also consider lynching Hydra.

Jacob was suspicious yesterday and was away most of D2. His last 6 posts back, instead of giving content, just point out small things here and there. Let's lynch him instead.