AMURIKA MAFIA - Game Over

[CryoChemist]

We are ok with hiraki lynched based soley on the fact that noob-scum joel never even mentioned him.

[goodmorning]

@Dan: If, and that's a big if, you were to flip Town, PV would be Scum. If Scum, Hiraki. And I'd be 60% sure on PV and 80% sure on Hiraki.
You have been rather unhelpful and not really Town, and if your flip will make me that sure of a Scum, it's very worth it to trade you for them.

joels never mentioned hiraki? Now that is interesting. Perhaps I would be willing to switch.

[Gorgon]

I've been spending the weekend mostly having the flu and am slowly recovering, but I see there's not been all that much posting since I last checked in here. I'm looking at DA now and have a couple of questions.

VOTE: Hiraki

Why?

"took the vote off Joel, tsk. tsk. totes scummy"

Like we wouldn't have put it back on if it was needed. goddamn.

Define 'needed'.

[Hiraki]

Like I said before, I have no grievances if you lynch me based on Joel's ideals. I called a scumzorz town and went waaaay too hard on it like I usually do and this gambit failed.

However, the Joel claim is false because the initial viewer (i.e. cyro--what a surprise) didn't realize that Joel doesn't directly mention a lot of people but indirectly mentions them by being the next post.

EX: ISO 15, 16, literally every post in his ISO without quote tags.

[CryoChemist]

^scum post

[Hiraki]

^thanks for proving my point

[JasonWazza]

Sadly Hiraki has a point, meaning Cryo misreped Hiraki.

Both the posts hiraki mentioned (15/16 in ISO) had Joel directly talking to Hiraki, he just didn't quote/use a name.

[Hiraki]

newbhydra makes newb mistake

let's move onto bulba, thanks

[PeregrineV]

Thank you for only a few pages, but will read up tomorrow.

[Bulbazak]

Regfan, it's starting to look more and more like there was no vig. Almost everyone has posted since our call for a claim, and there has not been one yet. At this point, there's only 3 people I would believe to be the vig. should they claim. Anyone else that does so is fake claiming, and should be lynched.

Your point on Dan is bad. When scum point out lurkers in lists of reads, especially noob scum, they are subtly calling them scum and are hoping for a mislynch. Saying this is proof that Dan is partners with Joel is absurd. If anything, it proves the exact opposite. The argument against Dan (Hydras should post more. If a hydra does not post as much, they're scum) is one based on a fallacy similar to BoP. This is further compounded by a Gambler's Fallacy that assumes that just because Dan is a hydra made up of 2 players, that they should be more active. This is not the case. Dan is as likely to be absent as any other player, it's just that the hydra is made up of 2 people with lives, rather than 1. My point is that if we are to lynch Dan, and to a certain extent, Konowa, let's do so on reasons other than "OMG LURKER MUST KILL".

Jason, the "no need to do so" was originally stated by Regfan. I was just backing up his reasoning. The point was that he had introduced a reasonable defense for you and anticipated that your wagon would naturally dissolve. If Peregrine would have hammered at that point, and you would have flipped town, we would have been looking at him. In fact, it was not farfetched to believe that at least one person would have unvoted at that point, just so that we could prevent a premature hammer and further discuss the possible implications of what Regfan brought up. However, you didn't allow that, as you quickly claimed before anyone had the chance to unvote. So don't tell me that my point was a load of bull crap.

I'm seeing Hiraki going into full panic mode at this point. Reg's pressuring of Hiraki illuminated a number of inconsistencies. What's worse was the horrible backpeddaling that followed. Since then, he's attacked several of his accusers. At this point, I think he's flinging dirt and hoping something will stick. Cryo was right in pointing out the scummy post of Hiraki's, and it wasn't about his talking about Joel's posts. It was the inconsistency in his statement concerning his read on Joel. I dislike how quickly Jason jumped on Cryo and accused him of misrepping. I'm still waiting on the vig. claim, but I would not be surprised at a Hiraki-Jason scumteam.

[UberNinja]

There is a time in everyone's lives when they wish they could be someone else, even if only for a day. This was one of those times for little Claude. He was a poor French boy, wishing he could be an American. He decided his name would be Jimmy, and that he'd have a father who loved him and actually gave him the time of day. They'd play baseball, and eat hot dogs, and watch television together, and go camping with

Claude's

Jimmy's friends, and roast marshmallows, and laugh at each other's bad jokes, and go swimming together...

Living the American Dream is exactly that, just a dream. For a poor french boy without a father.

Votecount 2.7:

DansAdvent (3): PeregrineV, goodmorning, JasonWazza
Hiraki (3): Regfan, DansAdvent, CryoNudist
JasonWazza (2): Bulbazak, Konowa
Bulbazak (1): Hiraki
Konowa (1): SaintKerrigan

Not Voting (1): Gorgon

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-02-28 18:00:00)

Note:

Nacho will be away for a few days, and has left the game in my care in the mean time.

PeregrineV is V/LA until 2/25.

[Hiraki]

I'm seeing Hiraki going into full panic mode at this point.

Yes, between three posts he can see me going into a breakdown

like literally guys

lynch me and i'll cry

Since then, he's attacked several of his accusers.

Quotes thanks because this is false

It was the inconsistency in his statement concerning his read on Joel. I dislike how quickly Jason jumped on Cryo and accused him of misrepping.

are you fucking serious

do i need to put this in baby words where i quote the two posts so you see what he says?

he a fucking town read on me. you don't have to be daft to see it.

Oh I appreciate the defense, don't get me wrong.

It was more of a general statement, not an attack.

>appreciate the defense

instead of saying something negative

but wait bulba says

this is literally the only time he references you

but wait hiraki says

he's had a bandwagon and i'm defending him because he's (well I thought) not scum

maybe he should've given me some thanks though so bulba would be a bit happier with seeing real concrete stuff

fun fact: Joel only called two people town and those were bulba and om

yet joel is nubscum

wagonwagonwagonwagon

[Regfan]

Regfan, it's starting to look more and more like there was no vig. Almost everyone has posted since our call for a claim, and there has not been one yet. At this point, there's only 3 people I would believe to be the vig. should they claim. Anyone else that does so is fake claiming, and should be lynched.

Your point on Dan is bad. When scum point out lurkers in lists of reads, especially noob scum, they are subtly calling them scum and are hoping for a mislynch. Saying this is proof that Dan is partners with Joel is absurd. If anything, it proves the exact opposite. The argument against Dan (Hydras should post more. If a hydra does not post as much, they're scum) is one based on a fallacy similar to BoP. This is further compounded by a Gambler's Fallacy that assumes that just because Dan is a hydra made up of 2 players, that they should be more active. This is not the case. Dan is as likely to be absent as any other player, it's just that the hydra is made up of 2 people with lives, rather than 1. My point is that if we are to lynch Dan, and to a certain extent, Konowa, let's do so on reasons other than "OMG LURKER MUST KILL".

It's possible the vig isn't limited (ie. Full vig) and that's why they're not claiming, also possible there's a SK. We'll know tomorrow more than likely based on the number of deaths and there's really no support for Jason anymore so it's about time you hang it up and put him to the side to deal with tomorrow. My biggest point on Dan on why I think they're potentially mafia is based on their interactions with Joel, I don't see how that is "bad", Joel never reacted to their vote on him while reacting to everything else that happened to him. That's really my biggest issue with them and the fact I have no real content to change my mind on means that it's always going to be a scum-read due to that. And lurking *is* a scum-tell, I speak from about 120ish games of forum mafia across a few sites and maybe 2000?+ at EM experience, it's something that scum DO more often than town. A lot of it is playerstyle indicative yes, you'll find some people always lurk as town and as scum so them lurking might be a null-tell but I don't think that's the case with Dan thus I think his lack of real content in the thread for most of the game is a scum-tell.

[Regfan]

Also I don't think Jason was saying that he has a 'town-read' on Hiraki, merely that Joel did in fact react to 1-2 posts of Hiraki, just didn't mention his name in them. Given that Cryo stated he did control + F to determine whether there was interaction Cryo didn't 'misrep' just didn't read into it in a great amount of detail.

And nothings changed with my thoughts, I still want Hiraki if not that then Dan and after that Konowa/Gorgon.

[Konowa]

Back from a long week of work and stuff. I skimmed briefly, but need to actually give this more effort now. I saw Regfan post a bunch of setup spec stuff that I want to look over. I saw the claim from Jason and I really don't know how I feel about it? This probably is due to the bizarre nature of this setup? It's basically a copycat while the person is still alive? I'll go back and see if I'm delirious or what?

[Hiraki]

just didn't read into it in a great amount of detail.

I'd expect this level of bullshit from cryo

but um

really

[Regfan]

I'm not saying "I didn't read that much into them" I'm saying that it's what Cyro would have done when he posted it, ie. It wasn't an attempt at misreping.

[Hiraki]

Pretty sure when you do bad work and get a bad result, it's pretty close to misrepping. Sure, it may not be to the letter but it's pretty damn close.

[CryoChemist]

Pretty sure when you fail like this, it's pretty close to admitting guilt. Sure, it may not be "I'm scum" but it's pretty damn close.

[Hiraki]

Do you have any sense of when you might be wrong?

Even

I

have that, and see when you try to copy me, you better try to do it correctly.

Now, shouldn't you be consulting your other head or something before posting? Or is that not a thing anymore?

[Bulbazak]

Regfan, it's starting to look more and more like there was no vig. Almost everyone has posted since our call for a claim, and there has not been one yet. At this point, there's only 3 people I would believe to be the vig. should they claim. Anyone else that does so is fake claiming, and should be lynched.

Your point on Dan is bad. When scum point out lurkers in lists of reads, especially noob scum, they are subtly calling them scum and are hoping for a mislynch. Saying this is proof that Dan is partners with Joel is absurd. If anything, it proves the exact opposite. The argument against Dan (Hydras should post more. If a hydra does not post as much, they're scum) is one based on a fallacy similar to BoP. This is further compounded by a Gambler's Fallacy that assumes that just because Dan is a hydra made up of 2 players, that they should be more active. This is not the case. Dan is as likely to be absent as any other player, it's just that the hydra is made up of 2 people with lives, rather than 1. My point is that if we are to lynch Dan, and to a certain extent, Konowa, let's do so on reasons other than "OMG LURKER MUST KILL".

It's possible the vig isn't limited (ie. Full vig) and that's why they're not claiming, also possible there's a SK. We'll know tomorrow more than likely based on the number of deaths and there's really no support for Jason anymore so it's about time you hang it up and put him to the side to deal with tomorrow. My biggest point on Dan on why I think they're potentially mafia is based on their interactions with Joel, I don't see how that is "bad", Joel never reacted to their vote on him while reacting to everything else that happened to him. That's really my biggest issue with them and the fact I have no real content to change my mind on means that it's always going to be a scum-read due to that. And lurking *is* a scum-tell, I speak from about 120ish games of forum mafia across a few sites and maybe 2000?+ at EM experience, it's something that scum DO more often than town. A lot of it is playerstyle indicative yes, you'll find some people always lurk as town and as scum so them lurking might be a null-tell but I don't think that's the case with Dan thus I think his lack of real content in the thread for most of the game is a scum-tell.

Wouldn't a full vig. be potentially game breaking? There's a reason why they tend to have limited shots. Also, a SK kill of AA9 makes as much sense as a mafia kill, according to your logic. Why would a SK want to kill an easy mislynch for d2?

As for Joel ignoring Dan's vote, I'm actually not that surprised. Joel missed my fos on him until someone pointed it out. It would not be a stretch to imagine that he missed Dan's vote as well, especially since Dan didn't include his reasons for doing so.

Since then, he's attacked several of his accusers.

Quotes thanks because this is false

Let the quote parade begin:

Out of the 2, I prefer Hiraki. He's been extremely anti-town this entire game and has not been contributing to the discussion at all.

Yet, I have. You just think I'm annoying is the real translation of this statement.

The only reason I've never voted him was because I thought he might be a neutral party. However, I trust Reg's read on this.

You've switched your read on me multiple times. You're looking for a wagon and then when it disappears, so does your read on me. Please don't try to justify it with Reg's read.

You first changed your read on me when Konowa voted me (From neutral to slightly scummish)

Now, it's scum when the confirmed town hops on?

Give me a break.

^scum post

^thanks for proving my point

newbhydra makes newb mistake

let's move onto bulba, thanks

I believe those are attacks on Cryo, Dan, and myself.

It was the inconsistency in his statement concerning his read on Joel. I dislike how quickly Jason jumped on Cryo and accused him of misrepping.

are you fucking serious

do i need to put this in baby words where i quote the two posts so you see what he says?

he a fucking town read on me. you don't have to be daft to see it.

Oh I appreciate the defense, don't get me wrong.

It was more of a general statement, not an attack.

>appreciate the defense

instead of saying something negative

but wait bulba says

this is literally the only time he references you

but wait hiraki says

he's had a bandwagon and i'm defending him because he's (well I thought) not scum

maybe he should've given me some thanks though so bulba would be a bit happier with seeing real concrete stuff

fun fact: Joel only called two people town and those were bulba and om

yet joel is nubscum

wagonwagonwagonwagon

Hold that thought.

Like I said before, I have no grievances if you lynch me based on Joel's ideals.

I called a scumzorz town and went waaaay too hard on it like I usually do and this gambit failed.

However, the Joel claim is false because the initial viewer (i.e. cyro--what a surprise) didn't realize that Joel doesn't directly mention a lot of people but indirectly mentions them by being the next post.

EX: ISO 15, 16, literally every post in his ISO without quote tags.

Scumzorz huh? You didn't call Joel town all day d1. You actually flopped back and forth between town and null, with an indication that you thought he was slightly scummy on the side for good measure. Mostly you were saying "Noobzorz" and hoping it stuck. As town, I'd expect you'd look at the result and go "well, I called that one wrong" or talk about how Joel was noob scum, showing that your opinion of him really hasn't changed in regard to his play. Instead you're saying "Joel was scumzorz", or translated for those who don't speak Hiraki gibberish: "Joel was the scummiest scum to ever set foot in scumville." You don't get to make that type of play read posthumously.

Also, what gambit was that? Are you trying to imply NOW that you had some sort of secret scum catching strategy by calling Joel a noob? I'm sorry. It doesn't work that way. You don't get to make something up spur of the moment, call it a gambit posthumously, and hope that the town bites.

Unvote

Vote Hiraki

Jason can wait until later. I'd rather take out the stupidly cocky scum. I still want that vig. claim though.

[Regfan]

Full vig isn't that uncommon, it's just used in larger games more than minis. Not impossible though and re: SK, they could have shot Arc in hope of claiming vig.

Anyway tomorrow I'll go over a few of the things I wanted to get to, ie. Gorgon meta ect.

[Hiraki]

I believe those are attacks on Cryo, Dan, and myself.

You need to specify then because there's a difference between an attack and a cheeky jesture.

Not to mention, those were all after the aforementioned post so gj there bud. (oh wait, that's an attack though..hmm...er...should I rephrase this now?!?!?)

You didn't call Joel town all day d1.

OK. AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHERE IT REALLY MATTERS, I DID.

As town, I'd expect you'd look at the result and go "well, I called that one wrong" or talk about how Joel was noob scum, showing that your opinion of him really hasn't changed in regard to his play. Instead you're saying "Joel was scumzorz", or translated for those who don't speak Hiraki gibberish: "Joel was the scummiest scum to ever set foot in scumville."

1) You don't tell "megibberish" because you can't deduce in every simple post where I called Joel a noob, I was also

indirectly

calling him town. What's this Bulba from the future/brain? That's circular logic because if I indirectly call him town I can indirectly call him scum? Woah! Good thinking! Almost like the time where I thought about voting him and called him null for one post for the idea that I can't figure him out because he doesn't follow Mafiascum meta. Woah! Logic! It hurts, doesn't it?!?!

2) I did call it wrong. That's why I've continually said "I'm OK if you lynch me because I rode on Jason too hard. I really thought he was scum." Before you go Control F-ing for that yourself, I'll go ahead and quote it.

I did a little sway at the end for poor phrasing but I pretty much consistently called him town.

Also, I'm going to defend someone I think is town.

I honestly can't sway him because I was pretty sure on my Joel townread and it does look scummy as fuck so I don't mind him

Like I said before, I have no grievances if you lynch me based on Joel's ideals. I called a scumzorz town and went waaaay too hard on it like I usually do and this gambit failed.

3) It's a gambit because I'm going against the leading wagon. If I am wrong, which I am, it looks like I was doing some hardcore defense of a scumbuddy. This is the part where I say "I see I fucked up, not sure how that happened, but even I don't have a 100% hit marker"

[Gorgon]

Hiraki, so you were deliberately going against the leading wagon as some sort of gambit? Am I getting that right?

[Hiraki]

No. Gambit isn't the perfect term but it's the only term I think that'll fit.

I'm using gambit in the sense that if I am wrong, I'm fucked even if I believe that it's 100% true.