In post 2328, Cerulean wrote:Don't see this as any kind of town tell. Why wouldn't scum-BT want to discredit votes on his partners wagon? Especially a tracker?
It seems like a high risk, low reward move for scum at that moment. TML wasn't voting for absta then, and wasn't being pushed.
What do you think of Benmage's unwillingness to vote for Absta?
Where was I unwilling to vote abstas? I don't even recall an abstas wagon happening...
I'm thinking of your post 415, but also the fact that you never voted him, and the fact that he's the sort of player who I think you would have been fine with lynching even if you had a town read on him.
I've been pretty sure that Camn is full of shit all game, so I can't help but be sympathetic to CDB at the moment.
Plessiezarus was the first up the possibility. Scum usually avoid giving that kind of thing away. But yes, if it does turn out there's an eavesdropper, then kuribo is as good a confirmed town as any.
In post 2403, camn wrote:There sure is a lot of attack on my character going on these days... but yeah, what Equinox said!
So, going off your ChannelDelibird RVS bussing and coaching case, what's the difference between what you have on ChannelDelibird and what other people have on The Mini-Librarian?
Camn, I'm trying to be polite about this because my intention is absolutely never to offend fellow players, but I'm sure you know that being "full of shit", as variously described by me and Zdenek, is being discussed as being a scum tactic, rather than a personal insult. You're experienced enough to know the difference - and from what I can tell of your tone you're acting unimpressed rather than hurt - so I don't really appreciate being snidely mentioned as if I am trying to offend you personally. I'm angry because I think you're targeting me as scum; I'd just like you to acknowledge the difference because otherwise I'm going to get Britishly uncomfortable.
I probably thought too long about this post and may have got tangled over my words, but hopefully the point comes across.
Better put: I think there's a difference between what we're doing and what you're implying that we're doing, I think you know as much and are being disingenuous about it, and I think that is as much of an issue for your "character" than anything that we've said. I'd like us to do this just slightly more honourably.
In post 2328, Cerulean wrote:Don't see this as any kind of town tell. Why wouldn't scum-BT want to discredit votes on his partners wagon? Especially a tracker?
It seems like a high risk, low reward move for scum at that moment. TML wasn't voting for absta then, and wasn't being pushed.
What do you think of Benmage's unwillingness to vote for Absta?
Where was I unwilling to vote abstas? I don't even recall an abstas wagon happening...
I'm thinking of your post 415, but also the fact that you never voted him, and the fact that he's the sort of player who I think you would have been fine with lynching even if you had a town read on him.
I've been pretty sure that Camn is full of shit all game, so I can't help but be sympathetic to CDB at the moment.
That is an odd complaint considering there was never much plausibility with an abstas lynch and again I was pursuing petapan.
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
But sir, I think you ARE going after me personally.. because the idea that you
actually
think I am doing this as scum isn't in my realm of thought. Because you KNOW who your partners are! Thus, you resort to the only thing you have.
But worry not.. I am not hurt. I am enjoying myself. Character attacks are the last refuge of caught scum, and they tickle me. They let me know I'm on the right track!
However- I DO apologize if my tone was 'snide'. I was going for 'praying mantis'.... I bear you no ill will.
BUT- being full blooded Irish, your British discomfort is like sweet honey to me
@Equinox- Im not that logical. I dont read you as scum. I
do
read Delibird as scum. All else is window dressing.
Cases? Tells? That shiz is all just tactics to me, and a way to clarify my thinking.
If I could just control the lynch solo for a couple days, I wouldn't need them, and this game would be over fast
(one way or the other!)
"if you weren't trying to be so unnecessarily mysterious all the time we wouldn't have these misunderstandings" - Yosarian2
OK, glad to hear no lines have been crossed. I think it's pretty obvious from the fact that I've made actual arguments against you rather than just "THE BAD WOMAN IS MAKING ME CRY" that I can't be described as targeting your character directly, but then again I suppose you can't say anything else because I'm right and you're not allowed to admit it.
tl;dr, lynch Equinox and then follow up on camn tomorrow for sweet justice.
In post 2395, Plessiezarus wrote:I can understand being annoyed at being suspected for what seem like silly reasons, but ... you knew your repeated goading of camn was going to provoke exactly this response, right?
I didn't post them for her benefit.
Obviously not. Whose benefit did you post them for? Do you think it helps the town to have you and camn sniping at each other like this?
In post 2415, Plessiezarus wrote:Obviously not. Whose benefit did you post them for? Do you think it helps the town to have you and camn sniping at each other like this?
I posted them because I find camn's pushes on me for bullshit buzzword tells to be scummy as well as plain wrong, so I wanted people to be as aware of that as possible - Benmage, for instance, who is also voting for me, plus anyone who might be thinking about listening to camnscum in some way. My original intention was to pack them all in one post and make the point in a slightly less yelly way, but the way in which camn has gone about attacking me have really rubbed me up the wrong way so I got too keen to point them out as soon as I found them (it's a hard thing to stop once you've posted the first one).
I agree that our sniping match was excessive but I do think it had benefits; we've seen that camn will refuse to properly engage with criticisms of her vote and it led me to bring out some of my meta, which includes a direct example of camn legitimately catching CDBscum, who played completely differently to this.
In post 2419, camn wrote:I caught CDB?
I should probably go read that then....if I am of the opinion that no one learns from their mistakes and changes their play.
Seven years of the same shitty scumplay begs to differ, though I am happy to accept that my continuing to argue this point past giving you all the meta links you need is an entirely pointless exercise.
and plus, with the addition of a hydra to the neighborhood, i have more people to talk to than deas, who only seemed to pop his head in like every few days
Cool so answers about yesterday's wagons rolled into one:
The wagons yesterday were frankly very revealing and I dunno why camn is having a hard time getting decent analysis from them. The Kuribo wagon was clearly just a reaction to the play style, there's nothing to see there. The CDB wagon:
ChannelDeliBird (5) - Plessiezarus, Zdenek, The Mini-Librarian, kuribo, camn
If there was scum on it it's clearly TML or camn. The kise wagon:
Kise (6) - The Mini-Librarian, Cerulean, Ser Arthur Dayne, sottyrulez, Benmage, camn
Again, if there was scum on it it's probably TML or camn. The BT wagon:
BT (7) - Channeldelibird, Kise, sottyrulez, kuribom Benmage, camn, Ser Arthur Dayne
So, again if there is scum on this wagon it's probably camn. The SAD wagon:
Ser Arthur Dayne (9) - Deasvail, Plessiezarus, Zdenek, JasonT1981, The-Mini Librarian, Nostredeus, ChannelDeliBird, sottyrulez, camn
So, yeah, errrr, TML/camn for scum on this one too, more so TML. You might be noticing a trend in the way TML played yesterday (camn too but there's other stuff regarding TML that makes it a more productive slot to lynch).
With regards to the stability thing 'for the longest' was a bad phrase to use tbh, what I was meaning is the core members stayed on regardless of alternative options for an extended period of time and even in situations where they were offered an out, 'so I'm gunna compromise swap to SAD' would have gone down fine, also the same logic -in reverse- applies to people who did swap from BT to SAD.
Other questions, errrr, oh yeah, Kuribo said something like 'town tunnel too' I think. That can be said of literally everything in the game, mafia is just a WIFOM fest if we're all honest, every justification can apply to town and scum. imo the real tells come from the motivations behind the things that layers do and the way to find that is when multiple actions are taken as a whole. Instead the real question you want to ask is presumably 'why do you think vote-hopping in this case is scum motivated?'. So yeah no I'm not saying town never tunnel and town never vote-hop I'm saying in this case the way TML vote hopped multiple times is indicative of opportunistic motivations.
(If I missed a question or w.e then ask them if they actually mattered.)
---
Recent stuff:
Plezzie is town, yup, that was clear already but now concrete, Kuribo too. How about we take that information and look at the wagons from yesterday that I've copy pasted and see if there are any inferences, I think there are of course, but since a lot of you guys have newly town reads on Plezzie/Kuribo it might be worth you doing?
Equinox, are you saying you find Zdenek potentially scummy? If so can you please link me a game with a scum aligned friendly neighbor, I could do with a source or two to see how scum friendly neighbors play and I can't find an example of it happening.
