Mini 1413 - The Mind Reader Mafia - Game Over

[UberNinja]

like honestly i just wanna leave this game and stop wasting my time in it

[Loranthaceae]

obligatory "nooooooo don't lynch me"

do you think i'm actually scum? or are you just bored. or am i just the only one posting and therefore i'm the one who's on your radar while everyone else who is not posting is not? because it seems you vote whoever posted last, with some bright idea as to why they're scum for 4 seconds, before you move onto the next person like a goldfish who's forgotten why they're swimming the direction they're swimming

i remember playing with you once before, and i remember your play being extremely hard to follow.

I was suspicious of Ice and his bad reasoning for voting guille (let's call it an incentive to be less fucking aweful) and the emotional bullcrapa about me quickhammering.

I'm suspicious of you because you replaced in at night and it's likely you killed Jal because it's a commonly known fact that you can easily tell when she's scum. So you killed her to avoid having to call her town or reveal your scummyness by not calling her town. You should also have more to say on Mala because you correctly identified her as town right away in our last game but back to Jal. When I mentioned this you gave this reply which makes me think:

1. You are partly responsible for people voting for qwints right now because you pointed out that line, that you quoted, that Jal wrote before the night phase because people actually believe that scum qwints would be this predictable. You and I know that scum-qwints wouldn't kill Jal after a statement like that, and yet you're not saying it. Your defense of qwints is as superficial as it gets.

2. You'll look pretty good because you're not voting qwints. It's beautiful, once he flips town you'll have town cred for not being on the wagon, you even get to discredit Nacho who is the main advocator for lynching qwints. You're saying he's on the easy lynch for inconclusive reasons, that's exactly what scum would say to line up the next mislynch.

TL;DR You killed Jal and then you planned on letting qwints be lynched while staying off the wagon and barking at those who are on it. Sounds like a good plan to me and your statistics say you are good as scum.

[UberNinja]

yeah, i'm good as scum
yeah, i'd probably do some of that if i was scum
and yeah, a lot of what you're saying actually makes sense in that post

but i'm town and you're wrong



i'm curious though, do you think qwints is town?

[Loranthaceae]

If I was scum I wouldn't kill Jal right after she said I'm next to lynch, but I can't be sure qwints ticks like that. I also have difficulties believing mehdi wrote all the shit he wrote as scum, I mean that wasn't English.. it was coded or something. But I'm suspicious of his guille, ICE, CE scumteam. I don't know.. I wouldn't hammer him just yet.

[Loranthaceae]

Unless... VOTE: qwints

[UberNinja]

what the fuck




i dont even

[Loranthaceae]

what the fuck




i dont even

qwints is the best lynch for today.

[CrashTextDummie]

Not much going on in this game, eh? I guess that means I should actually read it.

I was trying to find a recent vote count and had to go back 6 pages. There also seem to be people in desperate need of a cattleprod. Some more mod effort would be appreciated.

Enough introductory nagging, I'll go produce something juicy.

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote Count:

5 to lynch

qwints: 5 (mastin2, Nachomamma8, Lastsurvivor, Malakittens, Loranthaceae)
Nachomamma8: 2 (UberNinja, CrashTextDummie)
Lastsurvivor: 1 (qwints)

Not Voting: 1 (penguin_alien)

qwints has been lynched!

When the decision is made things start moving faster. qwints knows the routine by now, waiting with a fearful but resigned look by the heavy door. You shudder at the thought of what may lie on the other side of that portal. It opens, white light streaming forth to frame qwints' form, his barely perceptible tremble. A familiar voice rings out.

"You may enter," the researcher says, only the slightest hint of contempt in his voice. qwints steps into the blinding light, lost from view. "Now tell me," he says as you hear a metallic sound disturbingly like a blade being sharpened, "do you know what you've done wrong?"

"Yes..." The door slams shut, leaving you alone with your grim thoughts. Some minutes later the loudspeaker chirps to life.

"To bed with you, darlings, to bed. There is still so much to look forward to."

qwints -

Test Subject

- Lynched Day Three

It is now Night Three. Actions due in 48 hours!

[OhGodMyLife]

In the morning nothing unnatural breaks the cycle of sleep. You wake feeling rested for the first time in days, and surprisingly alert. There's no way to tell the time, but surely it is well past the normal wake up call in this place. That worries you more than anything. You venture into the hall and find your trepidation well founded.

The others have been slowly gathering all morning outside Nachomamma8's cell. He lies still on his back, eyes wide in death, arms and legs splayed. All over the walls of his cell are the scrawlings of a troubled, perhaps insane mind. But looking more closely, you're jarred by sudden recognition. Some of these ramblings came from

your

insane mind. Realization dawns. This doesn't bode well at all.

"Well, my little children," the unctuous voice drips from the speakers, "as you can see your numbers are reduced once more. What is it now? With seven alive, it takes four to lynch!"

Nachomamma8 -

The Mind Reader

- Killed Night Three

It is now Day Four.

[CrashTextDummie]

I am severely disappointed in UberNinja and will not sheep him again.

Vote: Loranthaceae

to start things off.

[Loranthaceae]

This is Lylo, retract your buttmunch vote now!

[Loranthaceae]

Actually it's not, nvm. Why am I scum?

[CrashTextDummie]

Because you hammered a dude roughly 3 and a half minutes after making a post on why you didn't want to hammer him.

[Loranthaceae]

and you think scum would do that?

[mastin2]

Crap.

Vote: Mastin.

A promise I made to Nacho in my QT to vote myself if The Mindreader died the day after they revealed themselves to me.
Granted, he did so in a different method than I specified (quoting directly from my QT rather than saying, "You're town, I'm town, let's lynch scum" ), but he still did so and still ended up dead. :/

Granted, unless anyone actually has a scumread on me, I'll probably remove said self-vote since lynching me today puts us in lylo tomorrow (I made the offer N1, when we were still ahead--two mislynches later, we're no longer as ahead ), but eh, my silly sense of honor obligates me to have at least made it.
Will get back to this game and reread. I have no scumreads atm. And I'm beginning to seriously doubt my townreads. I've got paranoia about Loran, about UN (their exchange kinda looks fake), and am also looking at CTD (CE) whose slot also looks kinda bad. But I could also see Mala and/or LS as scum.

...In other words, YOU'RE ALL SCUM AND I HATE YOU ALL.
(Not really, but basically, I got nuthin'.)

[UberNinja]

Vote: CrashTextDummie

The whole "Never sheeping UberNinja again" thing feels like he's trying to pin his Nacho vote entirely on me, which is scummy.
Yeah I was wrong about Nacho but CTD should be taking responsibility for his own vote. Looks like scum backtracking/blaming.

Also, Loran is still probtown and the fact that CTD is voting him is terrible as well.

Mala is also on my radar. Mastin too.

[penguin_alien]

mastin2, any conclusions from your VCA?

CrashTextDummie, what are your impressions of things not in the immediate lead-up to the qwints lynch?

UberNinja can be town for actively telling people to get off the qwints wagon. Argue against it as scum, yes; intentionally hinder it, no.

[mastin2]

mastin2, any conclusions from your VCA?

What you see in-thread is what I've got. I don't access MS.net over the weekends, and I left pretty much immediately after I posted what I did. Meaning no further work got done.

Nor will any work get done; I'm suspending the effort. VCA--while useful--is a great way to augment reads.
Not to create them.

The very thing which makes my VCA useful is the very thing which makes it so that I can't afford to do it atm. It's a massive undertaking to compile it my way. Gives good info, but the meticulous process just isn't worth the time wasted when I have no reads. I'm a slacker, I procrastinate, and I kinda lack incentive to finish it; all those combined mean that it'd probably take me two weeks to compile the completed VCA and draw solid evidence from it--far too long.

Will I abandon it, heck no, but it's on suspension until I've at least got a single read.
...Okay, make that two reads, since I think I can remain confident in a townread I have on you.

The VCA was meant as a side-project, to do when I had nothing else more productive to do. Now, I have something far more important of a task to tackle, so that means no VCA until I can once-more afford to work on the side-project.

To be honest, I was hoping my VCA would draw the scum kill onto me, because I wanted 'em to fear it. Played it up as a more credible threat than it actually was. When in the grand scale of things, it's not as important as actually (re)reading the dang thread, which I desperately need to do.

[Loranthaceae]

Since it's clear that we all had QTs an none of us were the MR I think it might be helpful for us [those townies who want to help us (town)win this game] to make a resume of them. Because chances are our current MR is also incompetent and I don't want to go down without a fight for some information.

1-10:

I told the MR fuck himself because I wanted to be the mind reader. In fact 'Fuck you Mind Reader' was my username for the first 5 posts or so. I explained what I'm looking for when I'm scumhunting.. feel free to ask me about that, I think I want this discussion with everyone. I gave him a password.

But then my posts got deleted 'spam messages' so I raged, I thought the Mod or the MR did it so I put 'Fuck you Mod' as my username for the 6-7-8th or so posts and asked 'wtf', which also got deleted. He told me he didn't do it and we (me and the mod) had a discussion about those quicktopic assholes brainlessly censoring the QTs and how retarded that is.

So I carried on with Loranthaceae as my username now, making a resume about what I had written. Actually I didn't resume I just restated the codeword. But that was post nr 11 so I'm getting ahead of myself

11-20:

I told the MR that I had a townread on penguin. This was when the confirmation issue was at full swing and I had my vote on her.

Then I explained my train of thoughts regarding CityElectric and her what led to the post where I ask that question and vote her for the reason that LS was waiting to hear from me for. I mentioned that I wanted to wait before attacking her, even though it might be dangerous, to get better reactions and more info.
I followed up with a post saying I was going to advocate for a guille and CE lynch, guille because he as doing resume posts, and that PS Loran is suspicious shit.
In the same post I gave my thoughts on Junpei's reaction test, I said he was trying to pose as the MR (he was the MR lol) saying how in

I don't see how my question is something that should be asked to The Mind Reader

he hyphened the I's and The Mind Reader and saying furthermore roughly what I wrote in the case I made against him, but also that he is trying to portect Juls by making it look like he read her QT and he's declaring her not suspicious because he has extra info to draw an educated guess from that others don't.
I said he was obviously fishing and since Junpei wrote

I wanted the mind reader to know the answers.

I was debating whether it was a town or scumslip to say that.

Subsequently I wrote about wanting to pressure LS because of something he wrote

wut is this

(#post 53) with regard to what I wrote about how I scumhunt that got deleted.. saying scum sometimes stick out by trying to act cool. I then said that judging by instinct I'd say the scum constellation was LS, guille, CE and that I'm assuming new info will shed some more light on this later.

Then I wrote a post where I contemplate what I'd look for in the QTs if I was the MR to identify scum.

I then mentioned that lurking is an even more imba strategy here than usual. And then I thought Adam was the MR and that he purposefully signaled this to me for some reason, and that I've completed what I wanted to do as in gain the MRs trust.

21-30:

I was in spy-mode and communicated the MR (who I thought was Adam at that time) a system by which he could communicate me his reads, it's pretty cool. I also told him his main priority is to loose heat and how this can be achieved by buddying up with one of his scumreads and I'll buddy up with the other two , and that it was a clever move to call my play awful

In my next post I was still talking to MR as to Adam directly and I told him If I was scum I was the best scum in history and that he'll loose anyway so he might as well trust me (and go along with the plan). Then I said I'm not that sure about him being Adam but if he is tagoing around with Mehdi was a good way to loose credibility / the bounty on his head.

Then some more about CE being scum, actually I've wrote the whole post where I vote her in the QT first prior to publishing it in the threat.. something I wound up doing fairly often.
I said that if she doesn't have anything in her QT to explain her behavior that she should be lynched.

Next, a post about Adam which was the backbone for my case on him. After I made the case in the thread I said my case was awesome and that Adam is going to get killed either by lynch or shot, the latter in case scum want to line up my lynch for Day2... so he better use my codeword to claim if he is Adam. Actually I just said it's his fault if he gets lynched or shot but I did want to see if I'm right about him being the MR so yeah.

Then I said I didn't need this QT anymore and that I'd suggest for everyone to give the MR a codeword

31-40:

I announced that I had fucked up because I said I was VT by saying I was proud of my QT (when I made my case on Adam), but then I remembered that my meta says I always claim VT so I could remedy the situation somewhat. I then said I'd advertise the idea of giving the MR codewords because if he was Jal he's need it (I was referring to fact that she said she wants her QT to flourish and some other stuff that could be regarded as a claim - and claims are bad).

Without supplying any real reasoning I said that I'm convinced that CE and Adam are scum but if not then LS and Mala are.. mentioning that lynching Adam was a good thing regardless and that only if he's newb he can be town and since the game requires 2 games played I was pertty confident.

In my 36 (01-20-2013 around 4 am ET US time) I explain how Junpei gave himself away as the MR. If I was scum I would've killed him N1.

Yeah this isn't as fun as I imagined .. I'm going to take a swim now.. maybe I'll continue later.


P-edit Uber's defence of qwints was superficial imo.

[mastin2]

Oh yeah. That's an idea I had in my QT a while back, too. At least, I think I posted the idea in there. I certainly remember THINKING about it.

As a warning...I probably have the longest QT of ya guys. So lots to paraphrase.

Spoiler: Paraphrase

2-6 were Juls, using the QT much as I would, keeping notes on players and posts. I note this when I come in and do much the same. I then proceed to spam the QT with rapid-fire catchup posts stream-of-consciousness styled. By post 29 in my QT, I have accumulated my thoughts, and in post 30, I call out a scumteam of Penguin-Guile-Mal.
I have a note saying 8 shows GreyICE being town. What I meant by 8, I don't remember. A post with 8 in its number, iso 8, I dunno.

I post in my QT that I think that I'm reading basically as a formality, since I state that I doubt my reads will change.
I immediately backtrack within the next few pages of my readthrough, because I saw something which DID change my read.
I do some VCA, and in post 40, I apologize to the mind-reader for quadrupling the size of my QT in less than 24 hours.

Message 41 has my plan that I outlined. I ask for the mindreader to contact me D2. This was to
-Establish a townread on a slot which I might have had doubts on. (This proved useful considering I actually had suspicion on Nacho until he made it obvious to me that it was him. )
-Allow me to bounce reads off of them and maybe sheep them.
-Establish trust, with them contacting me and them not dieing. (That part didn't work out so well. )
*To counter-balance this, I offered myself up as a lynch if the mind-reader died the night after revealing themselves to me. (Hence, the self-vote. ) I point out that with a scum lynch on D1, we could afford to take the hit of mislynching me D3.
-I give a simple method of contacting, via asking in a single post for, "You're town, I'm town". (Considering who the mindreader was, that shouldn't have been too hard, but NOOOOOOO, Nacho HAD to go the long way around 'cause he's a stubborn ass. )
-I also state that if somebody beat me to this plan, that the mind-reader shouldn't use it on me, and whoever used it would be guaranteed town.

Over the weekend, I lose my train of thought on the game, and begin rereading stuff. I compile a new list of suspects, do some wagon-analysis on the end-of-day votecount, and basically recompose myself. In post 50, I explain why I ask Penguin to define interesting, in that use of the word is a minor scumtell. I also explain the methodology behind my most-to-least ranking system of five players. (It's an idea I picked up from ThAd in Playing With Fire--plusses and minuses, basically.) I continue posting these and updating them, and also identify AP as my guess for a mindreader, explaining why I thought as much. (In hindsight, this is probably why Nacho wanted an AP lynch so badly. Because his boy Mastin was sheeping the wrong guy. ) This is why I was so hardcore against the AP lynch, by the way, because up 'til he claimed VT, I was dead-certain AP was the mindreader.

I identify why qwints is so scum it's painful, owing in part to my AP-as-counterwagon-with-me-reading-AP-as-the-mindreader.

In message 58, I ask for AP if he claims mindreader to paraphrase all our QTs so that we get a chance to see them and evaluate them for ourselves before he dies. I type up the prototype for a post telling Nacho how to dance, and then I continue compiling the lists of players, those lists that I had asked for.

By 64, the AP mislynch has happened, I rant about how horrible the lynch was, tell the mindreader that anybody ranting about what I did in-thread is scum because a town player would vent in their QT like I did, and I call the AP lynch scummy-as-hell.

I then give more tips for Nacho, and make a mental note to do VCA. I note the drop in activity, and think that I should post something to liven it up. (I believe I didn't do this for two reasons, being that the game picked up by itself shortly after this, and that I was distracted by my VCA. Apathy mighta also contributed to it.)

The rest of my QT is dedicated to VCA and typing out drafts to answers about the VCA, which takes up 72-87. My latest post is explaining my method for which I will be looking for direction today, that being, my method for playing.

Soyeah. I have a lot.
This is seriously condensing down the content in there.

[mastin2]

Reading through Loran's paraphrase, I'm reinstating my townread on him. He and I seem to have thought a lot of the same stuff at the same time throughout the game, in addition to him actually thinking about the idea of paraphrasing them, something I had thought about but forgot to actually follow through on.

So, Penguin-town, Loran-town, me-town, we just need one more solid town and we can scumhunt via POE.

[Lastsurvivor]

I'll do a summary as well!

Spoiler: Squee

1 - 18 (all of D1) are PbP summaries of the game since the game was a bit more active.

25 - 27 I dissect a response Mehdi made to me, and think a GI - Guille team isn't really possible (I've redacted that FWIW).

28 - 40 is me complaining about Loran's bad attack on me earlier in the game (looking back I didn't react well) (48-56 I do this same thing except with PA).

41-43 I propose that Mala is taking advantage of Mehdi's defensive nature, because they didn't buddy each other as much as I thought they did.

58 I say that AP obviously doesn't know my meta since I would have self hammered by now. I post a reads list and propose teams...the only relevant one being Mehdi town -> PA/Mala scum...which I'm not sure I agree with. But looking back through my QT I'm getting suspicious of Mala again.

63: I figure out Nacho's the MR because he quoted the "I would have self hammered by now" line, which he couldn't have known because he's never played with scum-me (and from this point on I talk at Nacho periodically).

77 I post another reads list...in which Mala is in the bottom if you exclude all the dead town players...

79 - 83 celebrating the AP-scum lynch and then sadness at the AP town lynch.

85 I explain why I think qwints' off the wagon theory is bad..

89 relevant theory: qwints town -> UN scum

then the only real post (excluding my latest post) is 99 where I post my latest reads list (which is out of date already honestly).

Rereading it makes me think {Mala, UN/CTD}, personally. I'm not voting anyone until I reread.

[CrashTextDummie]

The whole "Never sheeping UberNinja again" thing feels like he's trying to pin his Nacho vote entirely on me, which is scummy.
Yeah I was wrong about Nacho but CTD should be taking responsibility for his own vote. Looks like scum backtracking/blaming.

The whole "Never sheeping UberNinja again" thing was largely in jest. If you want to paint lighthearted mockery over a non-serious introductory vote as backtracking/blaming, be my guest. Though I wasn't afforded the time to make a better one, I take full responsibility for my vote. I really am never sheeping you again though, for serious this time.

I feel that you're oddly defensive about this issue. 60 pages happened and you're voting me for this? Please substantiate your Loranthaceae town read.

--------------

CrashTextDummie, what are your impressions of things not in the immediate lead-up to the qwints lynch?

I have zero impressions on anything that happened before I replaced in. I haven't read the game yet and don't feel a pressing need to anymore now that I have a lynch to work with. I probably will have read the game by the end of the week though.

--------------

and you think scum would do that?

a) This is not a pro-town response.
b) Yes I do.

The issue at hand isn't "would scum do that" anyway. I hate this line of reasoning because the answer is always "yes". Yes, scum could and would do anything if they think it furthers their cause.

The pertinent question here is "is scum more likely to do that than town?", and the answer is still yes. I don't see why a pro-town player would do what you did, provide reasoning on why they don't hammer and then immediately turn around and hammer anyway. It calls into question the truthfulness of your thoughts on Qwints when you're so quick to betray them. To add to that, your post in question reads to me more like you're trying to talk yourself out of hammering him as opposed to a legitimate assessment of his alignment. The wording of your hammer post ("Unless...") suggests that some form of thought process happened in the interim, but of course it's entirely opaque.

On the other hand, there is a strong scum motive for your action, and your immediate reaction to my accusation is, to me, an indication of the mindset you were likely working under. There was in fact some urgency for the scum to secure a mislynch: Any replacement into a stagnant game always carries the strong possibility of a shift in focus and momentum, and furthermore qwints was next in line for a replacement, which would have inevitably caused the town to slacken the pressure on his spot. It would have been in the best interest of the town to hear what I had to say, and you did literally everything in your power to prevent that from happening. I could see you not wanting to hear from a qwints replacement if you actually thought he was scum, but you claimed to be conflicted. In that light, your hammer was 100% anti-town and 100% pro-scum.

Naturally, a scum in your position would want to do the dirty deed with as little fallback as possible. There are a few ways to make a hammer look pro-town, and feigning indecision is one of them. The fact that you immediately played the "would scum do that" card strongly suggests that you put some thought into the particularities of your hammer. And indeed it looks artificial. It's a concept post, the "torn townie", but it's far removed from what I'd expect a pro-town person to

actually

think in the situation. This is a mature game, enough should have happened in order to form a strong opinion on whether a player is a good lynch or a bad one. A cursory glance at your ISO reveals that you've been on and off qwints at various points in the game. To go "

not just yet

" when it comes time to hammer him is a scummy cop-out.

You got anything else?

[UberNinja]

summary of my QT from memory is:

nacho looks scummy
mala looks scummy
loran looks towny

lol, nacho was reading "nacho looks scummy" and had to keep a straight face about it. haha
its rather embarrassing in hindsight, but i know how to laugh at myself

@ above post: yeah sure whatever, and yes i do but not right now